Is there a next sx280 model?

Started 5 months ago | Discussions
Dervast
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Is there a next sx280 model?
5 months ago

Canon announced some compact ultrazoom cameras but is there a continuation of sx280 hs?

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A

Canon PowerShot SX280 HS
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Gonini
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Re: Is there a next sx280 model?
In reply to Dervast, 5 months ago

the sx700 seems to be the next model but Im not sure, it has the same digic 6 hardware that does a good job on high iso for the sensor size, more zoom 30x vs 20x and more resolution 16mp vs 12mp. I dont know if more resolution is a good thing since the sx280 has very good image quality.

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NG Resonance
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Re: Is there a next sx280 model?
In reply to Gonini, 4 months ago

I'm not sure, either. Canon's inclusion of a 30x zoom and a higher-MP sensor are clear attempts to follow the newest successors in its class... but the lack of GPS plus higher min and lower max ISO are notable steps backward. The different model nomenclature muddies things even further.

On a personal note, I'm afraid Canon has probably sacrificed image quality for the sake of marketing numbers, as 16 MP on a sensor that small will, as I understand it, produce images that seem flatter than the sx280's 12MP. Would rather have had Canon work on improving image quality with a 20x max, throwing the s120's HDR feature into the mix, maybe even moving up to a bigger sensor... something different than the current crop of mediocre 30x travelzooms we're seeing out of Sony, Panasonic, and now Canon.

 NG Resonance's gear list:NG Resonance's gear list
Panasonic Lumix DMC-TZ5 Canon PowerShot SX280 HS Canon PowerShot S120 PowerShot SX700
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John McCormack
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Re: Is there a next sx280 model?
In reply to NG Resonance, 4 months ago

Canon is resting on its laurels these days. I like Canon cameras but Sony and Panasonic offer so much more. The Panasonic ZS40/TZ60 offers 30x plus an EVF and GPS - albeit at a higher price than Canon's SX700. The EVF alone is worth the extra cost in my book.

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Grobb
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Re: Is there a next sx280 model?
In reply to John McCormack, 4 months ago

John McCormack wrote:

Canon is resting on its laurels these days. I like Canon cameras but Sony and Panasonic offer so much more. The Panasonic ZS40/TZ60 offers 30x plus an EVF and GPS - albeit at a higher price than Canon's SX700. The EVF alone is worth the extra cost in my book.

With a 1/2.3" sensor, crammed full of 16 megapixels and a super slow F3.2 - F6.9 lens, unless you are shooting on a very sunny beach, how good can it be? I agree with you, Canon has been resting on it's laurels for years. It looks like even the G1X II may have the same old 2 year old sensor and does not even include an EVF, for $800! Unless it's IQ and lens is really outstanding, they will start to loose market shares to other companies that are much more innovative. When will Canon (and others) stop putting cell phone sensors in cameras 

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tkbslc
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SX280 still competitive, no need to update yet.
In reply to Dervast, 4 months ago

SX280 has one of the better sensors on the market and has a fantastic feature set.  I don't think it's dated enough yet to worry about an update.

And I am sure more zoom will be offered in this size of camera, but to be honest, it is already very hard to use 500mm reliably without a viewfinder and/or grip for stabilization.  I'm not sure more zoom is as desirable as it may sound on paper.

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tkbslc
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Re: Is there a next sx280 model?
In reply to Grobb, 4 months ago

tron555 wrote:

John McCormack wrote:

Canon is resting on its laurels these days. I like Canon cameras but Sony and Panasonic offer so much more. The Panasonic ZS40/TZ60 offers 30x plus an EVF and GPS - albeit at a higher price than Canon's SX700. The EVF alone is worth the extra cost in my book.

With a 1/2.3" sensor, crammed full of 16 megapixels and a super slow F3.2 - F6.9 lens, unless you are shooting on a very sunny beach, how good can it be? I agree with you, Canon has been resting on it's laurels for years. It looks like even the G1X II may have the same old 2 year old sensor and does not even include an EVF, for $800! Unless it's IQ and lens is really outstanding, they will start to loose market shares to other companies that are much more innovative. When will Canon (and others) stop putting cell phone sensors in cameras

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Canon's 1/2.3" and 1/1.7" sensors are among the best in the market and have improved significantly (almost a stop) over last years.

This discussion is not about the G1X II, but many comments have been made about its supposed poor value. As always, I ask you to find a m4/3 setup (or any mirrorless) with a fast 24-120mm zoom that comes in at less than even 50% more than Canon's MSRP for the G1X II. For everyone calling Canon out of date, there is someone who sees the G1X mk2 as revolutionary for it's lens speed, range and large sensor in such a small package.

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John McCormack
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Re: SX280 still competitive, no need to update yet.
In reply to tkbslc, 4 months ago

tkbslc wrote:

And I am sure more zoom will be offered in this size of camera, but to be honest, it is already very hard to use 500mm reliably without a viewfinder and/or grip for stabilization.

I agree. My Fujifilm F900 at 20X seems plenty long - and it shoots RAW when I need it.

I'm not sure more zoom is as desirable as it may sound on paper.

Panasonic has added an acceptable EVF to its LF1 and new ZS40. The LF1 has a 1/1.7 sensor w/ 28-200mm which should satisfy most travel shooters.

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Grobb
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Re: Is there a next sx280 model?
In reply to tkbslc, 4 months ago

tkbslc wrote:

tron555 wrote:

With a 1/2.3" sensor, crammed full of 16 megapixels and a super slow F3.2 - F6.9 lens, unless you are shooting on a very sunny beach, how good can it be? I agree with you, Canon has been resting on it's laurels for years. It looks like even the G1X II may have the same old 2 year old sensor and does not even include an EVF, for $800! Unless it's IQ and lens is really outstanding, they will start to loose market shares to other companies that are much more innovative. When will Canon (and others) stop putting cell phone sensors in cameras

Canon's 1/2.3" and 1/1.7" sensors are among the best in the market and have improved significantly (almost a stop) over last years.

This discussion is not about the G1X II, but many comments have been made about its supposed poor value. As always, I ask you to find a m4/3 setup (or any mirrorless) with a fast 24-120mm zoom that comes in at less than even 50% more than Canon's MSRP for the G1X II. For everyone calling Canon out of date, there is someone who sees the G1X mk2 as revolutionary for it's lens speed, range and large sensor in such a small package.

Here you go:

http://www.amazon.com/Olympus-Compact-System-14-42mm-40-150mm/dp/B00G237L8I/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1393806813&sr=8-1&keywords=Epm2

Olympus E-PM2 16MP Compact System Camera with 14-42mm and 40-150mm Two Lens Kit for only $399, that's half the price of the G1X II. The lens specs on the G1X II (theoretically) do look good, but, will the IQ be twice as good as the E-PM2? I don't think so. Only time and side by side comparisons will tell. I am looking to upgrade my G12 and actually considering the G1X II or the rumored Nikon P8000 as a possible upgrade. IF the G1X II has far better IQ than the P8000, I may actually get it. BUT, if the IQ is basically the same as the P8000 (+-5%) and the P8000 features and handling are much better than the G1X II, I may just get my first Nikon. We shall know how they compare in about 2 months or so.

PS, camera phones now have 1/2.3" and 1/1.7" sensors, it is time for Canon (and other manufacturers) to grow up and get with the future, like Sony and now Nikon with 1" sensors! Canon has been using the 1/1.7" sensors for way too long now, IMO!!!

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Norman B
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Re: SX280 still competitive, no need to update yet.
In reply to John McCormack, 4 months ago

The SX700 seems to be the replacement for now and until proven otherwise. I tend to agree with others that 750 at the long end may be a little much and 500 on the 280 is most likely more than enough.  We'll see what the reviews and user reports have to say about the 700.

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Grobb
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Re: SX280 still competitive, no need to update yet.
In reply to Norman B, 4 months ago

Norman B wrote:

The SX700 seems to be the replacement for now and until proven otherwise. I tend to agree with others that 750 at the long end may be a little much and 500 on the 280 is most likely more than enough. We'll see what the reviews and user reports have to say about the 700.

With 25% more pixels packed in to that same old tiny 1/1.7" sensor, don't count on any better IQ or less noise performance. There is only so much noise reduction software can do for an over crowded pinhead sensor 

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John McCormack
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tron555: Re: SX280 still competitive, no need to update yet.
In reply to Grobb, 4 months ago

tron555 wrote:

With 25% more pixels packed in to that same old tiny 1/1.7" sensor, don't count on any better IQ or less noise performance. There is only so much noise reduction software can do for an over crowded pinhead sensor

I assume you meant to write 1/2.3" sensor - which is what's in the SX700.

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Grobb
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You are correct, 1/2.3", not 1/1.7", even worse!
In reply to John McCormack, 4 months ago

John McCormack wrote:

tron555 wrote:

With 25% more pixels packed in to that same old tiny 1/1.7" sensor, don't count on any better IQ or less noise performance. There is only so much noise reduction software can do for an over crowded pinhead sensor

I assume you meant to write 1/2.3" sensor - which is what's in the SX700.

I guess that I could not imagine putting 16 MP's in less than a 1/1.7" sensor, much less a smaller one 

Thank you for catching that, my mistake.

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WB5
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Re: Is there a next sx280 model?
In reply to tkbslc, 4 months ago

tkbslc wrote:

Canon's 1/2.3" and 1/1.7" sensors are among the best in the market and have improved significantly (almost a stop) over last years.

I don't think Canon has made a 1/2.3" sensor since they made the SX1 superzoom, years ago. Their own sensor production, outside the large sensors (G1X, APS-C and up), seems to be limited to 1/1.7" sensors as used in the Canon S100 and S110 (not sure about what's inside the S120).

For the 1/2.3" sensors in models like the SX220/230, SX240/260 and SX270/280, IIRC it is a public secret that Canon bought the Sony 12MP BSI-CMOS for that (the same sensor that also got used in the Pentax Q1, among others). Since Canon stuck with a relatively low MP count all those years and Canon processing is good, they reaped the benefits with good quality. I suspect the improvement in recent years is down to more powerful processing (Digic 6, since last year) and to better algorithms.

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Grobb
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Re: Is there a next sx280 model?
In reply to WB5, 4 months ago

WB5 wrote:

tkbslc wrote:

Canon's 1/2.3" and 1/1.7" sensors are among the best in the market and have improved significantly (almost a stop) over last years.

I don't think Canon has made a 1/2.3" sensor since they made the SX1 superzoom, years ago. Their own sensor production, outside the large sensors (G1X, APS-C and up), seems to be limited to 1/1.7" sensors as used in the Canon S100 and S110 (not sure about what's inside the S120).

For the 1/2.3" sensors in models like the SX220/230, SX240/260 and SX270/280, IIRC it is a public secret that Canon bought the Sony 12MP BSI-CMOS for that (the same sensor that also got used in the Pentax Q1, among others). Since Canon stuck with a relatively low MP count all those years and Canon processing is good, they reaped the benefits with good quality. I suspect the improvement in recent years is down to more powerful processing (Digic 6, since last year) and to better algorithms.

So, correct me if I'm wrong in interpreting you reply. Are you saying that:

  1. Since Canon bought the Sony 1/2.3" 12MP, that is good enough and large enough sensor should not be used?
  2. Since Canon sticks to 12MP's, they have good enough image quality, and sufficient enough?
  3. Since Canon has Digic 6 processor, sensors should not be getting any larger than 1/1.7" because that size sensor is good enough?

Are you really satisfied with simply good enough, or would you like to see larger, more efficient, sensors that give you much better IQ, more resolution, better DR, features, etc...? The reason Canon is continuing to rest on its laurels is because some people keep saying "it's good enough for me" and buying whatever they put out. If they Stylus 1 came with a 1" sensor, it may have been a contender. If the Nikon P8000 is good as I think it will be, I just may upgrade my G12 for it. As far as I'm concerned, 1/2.3" and 1/1.7" sensors are for cell phone cameras, NOT high end fixed lens cameras!

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Norman B
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Re: SX280 still competitive, no need to update yet.
In reply to Grobb, 4 months ago

tron555 wrote:

Norman B wrote:

The SX700 seems to be the replacement for now and until proven otherwise. I tend to agree with others that 750 at the long end may be a little much and 500 on the 280 is most likely more than enough. We'll see what the reviews and user reports have to say about the 700.

With 25% more pixels packed in to that same old tiny 1/1.7" sensor, don't count on any better IQ or less noise performance. There is only so much noise reduction software can do for an over crowded pinhead sensor

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High end P & S do very well IMO as long as the person realizes the limitations and exploits what these little guys can do.  My concern has more to do with hand holding a camera the size of the SX700 at the long end.

I think the SX700 will be okay using optical zoom. I'm not so sure about digital zoom but that is generally not recommend in any case with any  P & S because of IQ degrading.

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WB5
WB5
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Re: Is there a next sx280 model?
In reply to Grobb, 4 months ago

tron555 wrote:

WB5 wrote:

tkbslc wrote:

Canon's 1/2.3" and 1/1.7" sensors are among the best in the market and have improved significantly (almost a stop) over last years.

I don't think Canon has made a 1/2.3" sensor since they made the SX1 superzoom, years ago. Their own sensor production, outside the large sensors (G1X, APS-C and up), seems to be limited to 1/1.7" sensors as used in the Canon S100 and S110 (not sure about what's inside the S120).

For the 1/2.3" sensors in models like the SX220/230, SX240/260 and SX270/280, IIRC it is a public secret that Canon bought the Sony 12MP BSI-CMOS for that (the same sensor that also got used in the Pentax Q1, among others). Since Canon stuck with a relatively low MP count all those years and Canon processing is good, they reaped the benefits with good quality. I suspect the improvement in recent years is down to more powerful processing (Digic 6, since last year) and to better algorithms.

So, correct me if I'm wrong in interpreting you reply. Are you saying that:

  1. Since Canon bought the Sony 1/2.3" 12MP, that is good enough and large enough sensor should not be used?
  2. Since Canon sticks to 12MP's, they have good enough image quality, and sufficient enough?
  3. Since Canon has Digic 6 processor, sensors should not be getting any larger than 1/1.7" because that size sensor is good enough?

Are you really satisfied with simply good enough, or would you like to see larger, more efficient, sensors that give you much better IQ, more resolution, better DR, features, etc...? The reason Canon is continuing to rest on its laurels is because some people keep saying "it's good enough for me" and buying whatever they put out. If they Stylus 1 came with a 1" sensor, it may have been a contender. If the Nikon P8000 is good as I think it will be, I just may upgrade my G12 for it. As far as I'm concerned, 1/2.3" and 1/1.7" sensors are for cell phone cameras, NOT high end fixed lens cameras!

You are indeed misinterpreting my reply. I never said anything about large sensors in that post, I merely corrected a (according to what I've heard) wrong assumption about the origin of the sensors used in recent SX-models and some other 1/2,3"-sensored models from Canon.

As for the point you make, though: of course using a bigger sensor reaps important benefits, but there are also compromises involved. An SX camera is not really a high end fixed lens camera, even though it is more upmarket than the typical garden variety 3x compact. Its trump card is its lens, which may be slow but which can range from 25mm wide angle to a serious telephoto of 500mm (and you can even handhold the latter in reasonable light thanks to efficient stabilisation). If the SX used even a 1/1,7" sensor, it would probably look like an Olympus Stylus 1 (or bigger) to fit that range in a lens that can cover the larger sensor. If it used a 1" sensor, it would look like a Sony RX10 and cost similar amounts.

Obviously there is a market for the SX-series: it can easily outzoom a smartphone, even the Nokia Pureviews, and it is very compact while packing a lens that would take a far larger camera to replicate in a model with a substantially bigger sensor. If Canon can do that while realising a semi-decent performance on noise and noise suppression by picking a reasonable sensor and good processing, more power to them.

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