Canon leads easily in the PJ/documentary market

Started Feb 21, 2014 | Discussions
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rhlpetrus Forum Pro • Posts: 24,486
Canon leads easily in the PJ/documentary market
2

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53159277

D4 seems to need an injection of market energy. Interestingly D700 still the most used Nikon by that group. Nikon  seem have made a few mistakes inthe last few years and lost the initial D3/D700 momentum.

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Renato.
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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 3,348
Re: Canon leads easily in the PJ/documentary market

With regard to the D700 issue, what I believe they should have done instead of the DF was the D800 body with the D4 sensor in.

The DF is an outlier in terms of appeal (as any number of discussions on forums etc will demonstrate) whereas the D800 with D4 sensor would not have been.

Canon are a much bigger company than Nikon and spend more on marketing.

At the end of the day there's little enough space between them at the top in IQ terms that it comes down to what system you or your employer is vested in already as much as anything else.

sgoldswo
sgoldswo Senior Member • Posts: 5,590
Re: Canon leads easily in the PJ/documentary market
2

MPA1 wrote:

With regard to the D700 issue, what I believe they should have done instead of the DF was the D800 body with the D4 sensor in.

The DF is an outlier in terms of appeal (as any number of discussions on forums etc will demonstrate) whereas the D800 with D4 sensor would not have been.

Canon are a much bigger company than Nikon and spend more on marketing.

At the end of the day there's little enough space between them at the top in IQ terms that it comes down to what system you or your employer is vested in already as much as anything else.

The Df is consciously consumer product. Think of it as an expensive mirrorless alternative. It goes after the same market and/or people who might buy a Leica and definitely is not a PJ tool.

to put it another way, it's irrelevant to this question. It isn't for the same market, nor is it a problem in the context of the question.

graham is also a bit of a lies, damn lies, and statistics merchant by the way. Take his posts with a pinch of salt. He picks facts to suit his argument (everyone does this to an extent, but he does nothing else).

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merops
merops Senior Member • Posts: 2,091
Re: Canon leads easily in the PJ/documentary market

rhlpetrus wrote:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53159277

D4 seems to need an injection of market energy. Interestingly D700 still the most used Nikon by that group. Nikon seem have made a few mistakes inthe last few years and lost the initial D3/D700 momentum.

Do you realise that this figure is based on 55 photos, only 42 of which identified the camera? These 42 photos are also likely to be a biased sample of the entries.

Canadianguy Senior Member • Posts: 1,172
Re: Canon leads easily in the PJ/documentary market

It would be nice to see the breakdown of all 103,481 pictures submitted by 5,666 photographers from the 124 countries.

The current breakdown is biased but its biased on the winning entries from each category...so do you blame the camera or do you blame the photographer.

Photographers using Nikon are bad or

Nikon cameras make bad images or

The contest is sponsored by Canon so they must win the most awards?

merops wrote:

rhlpetrus wrote:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53159277

D4 seems to need an injection of market energy. Interestingly D700 still the most used Nikon by that group. Nikon seem have made a few mistakes inthe last few years and lost the initial D3/D700 momentum.

Do you realise that this figure is based on 55 photos, only 42 of which identified the camera? These 42 photos are also likely to be a biased sample of the entries.

sgoldswo
sgoldswo Senior Member • Posts: 5,590
Re: Canon leads easily in the PJ/documentary market

merops wrote:

rhlpetrus wrote:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53159277

D4 seems to need an injection of market energy. Interestingly D700 still the most used Nikon by that group. Nikon seem have made a few mistakes inthe last few years and lost the initial D3/D700 momentum.

Do you realise that this figure is based on 55 photos, only 42 of which identified the camera? These 42 photos are also likely to be a biased sample of the entries.

I refer you to my previous post...

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merops
merops Senior Member • Posts: 2,091
Re: Canon leads easily in the PJ/documentary market

Canadianguy wrote:

It would be nice to see the breakdown of all 103,481 pictures submitted by 5,666 photographers from the 124 countries.

The current breakdown is biased but its biased on the winning entries from each category...so do you blame the camera or do you blame the photographer.

Photographers using Nikon are bad or

Nikon cameras make bad images or

The contest is sponsored by Canon so they must win the most awards?

merops wrote:

rhlpetrus wrote:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53159277

D4 seems to need an injection of market energy. Interestingly D700 still the most used Nikon by that group. Nikon seem have made a few mistakes inthe last few years and lost the initial D3/D700 momentum.

Do you realise that this figure is based on 55 photos, only 42 of which identified the camera? These 42 photos are also likely to be a biased sample of the entries.

I simply meant that the distribution of cameras used by photojournalists who are capable of winning a competition with 91k entries, is probably not the same as the distribution of cameras used by the average photojournalist who enters such a competition (which is also probably not the same as the distribution of cameras used by photojournalists).

42 is also a ludicrously small sample size on which to base this kind of comparison.

Felts Contributing Member • Posts: 566
Re: Canon leads easily in the PJ/documentary market
2

Good then. Now that we've got that out of the way we can all get on with our lives...

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Robin Casady Forum Pro • Posts: 12,898
Nikon leads easily in the Astronaut market
4

So what?

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M Lammerse
M Lammerse Forum Pro • Posts: 11,272
Re: Canon leads easily in the PJ/documentary market
1

rhlpetrus wrote:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53159277

D4 seems to need an injection of market energy. Interestingly D700 still the most used Nikon by that group. Nikon seem have made a few mistakes inthe last few years and lost the initial D3/D700 momentum.

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Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/
Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)

Canons' are indeed incredible popular. Most of my colleagues using Canon for news coverage and sports coverage. But it's also has some regional reasons. In Europe and the US Canon is more in favor than in for example Japan, although still leading.

The D700 replacement might bring some change to it but most of the market is already determined and Nikon knows that very well.

Michel

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Humours Dip Senior Member • Posts: 1,352
Re: Canon leads easily in the PJ/documentary market

It could well be true. For years Nikon lagged Canon, with few AFS lenses and even fewer VR lenses. And they were late to the full frame party. Plus Canon CMOS sensors were better. It is shocking how backward Nikon was 10 to 15 years ago. However, they sell enough to fund new products which is what matters.

olakiril2 Contributing Member • Posts: 639
Re: Canon leads easily in the PJ/documentary market

As a Nikon user I would say that Canon has a much better global support. US products are covered worldwide and gray market products are covered if you provide a receipt. Also the biggest factor might be that they have a much faster repair turnaround.

calson Veteran Member • Posts: 7,398
Re: Canon leads easily in the PJ/documentary market
2

Obviously you were not around with the demise of the PJ market. Newpapers and agencies have a tenth the number of staff that they had five years ago. This is a very tiny niche market and Canon pushes it for the advertising value alone. The camera sales for Canon are part of their consumer products division which is a very small part of their balance sheet. But they have the deep pockets to buy name photographers and to give them free equipment which has not been done by Nikon.

Bottom line is who cares?

benjaminblack
benjaminblack Contributing Member • Posts: 589
Re: Canon leads easily in the PJ/documentary market
3

rhlpetrus wrote:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53159277

D4 seems to need an injection of market energy. Interestingly D700 still the most used Nikon by that group. Nikon seem have made a few mistakes inthe last few years and lost the initial D3/D700 momentum.

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Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/
Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)

Yeah Canon is bigger than Nikon. I've only been in the industry since 2007, but they've been bigger for as long as I can remember.

However, there are many wedding and portrait photographers like me who left Canon singing and dancing for the D800. Best decision I ever made

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(unknown member) Veteran Member • Posts: 3,348
Re: Canon leads easily in the PJ/documentary market
1

There can be other reasons.

Here in NZ for example, Nikon does not offer NPS to us.

Canon does offer CPS to my peers who shoot that brand.

This can sway people in their choices: when IQ is good enough from either, it comes down to price, existing gear, personal preference and 'other' like CPS etc.

rhlpetrus OP Forum Pro • Posts: 24,486
I hadn't realized that, sorry

merops wrote:

Canadianguy wrote:

It would be nice to see the breakdown of all 103,481 pictures submitted by 5,666 photographers from the 124 countries.

The current breakdown is biased but its biased on the winning entries from each category...so do you blame the camera or do you blame the photographer.

Photographers using Nikon are bad or

Nikon cameras make bad images or

The contest is sponsored by Canon so they must win the most awards?

merops wrote:

rhlpetrus wrote:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53159277

D4 seems to need an injection of market energy. Interestingly D700 still the most used Nikon by that group. Nikon seem have made a few mistakes inthe last few years and lost the initial D3/D700 momentum.

Do you realise that this figure is based on 55 photos, only 42 of which identified the camera? These 42 photos are also likely to be a biased sample of the entries.

I simply meant that the distribution of cameras used by photojournalists who are capable of winning a competition with 91k entries, is probably not the same as the distribution of cameras used by the average photojournalist who enters such a competition (which is also probably not the same as the distribution of cameras used by photojournalists).

42 is also a ludicrously small sample size on which to base this kind of comparison.

Thanks for tgat info, I had understood to be from the whole submission group, does not mean much I agree. Even if unbiased, 42 means a very large error is possible compared to the whole pop.

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Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/
Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)

 rhlpetrus's gear list:rhlpetrus's gear list
Leica D-Lux (Typ 109) Nikon D7000 Nikon 1 V1 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 12-24mm f/4G ED-IF Nikon AF Nikkor 35mm f/2D +4 more
Mr Gadget Senior Member • Posts: 1,972
Re: Canon leads easily in the PJ/documentary market

M Lammerse wrote:

rhlpetrus wrote:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53159277

D4 seems to need an injection of market energy. Interestingly D700 still the most used Nikon by that group. Nikon seem have made a few mistakes inthe last few years and lost the initial D3/D700 momentum.

-- hide signature --

Renato.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/rhlpedrosa/
OnExposure member
http://www.onexposure.net/
Good shooting and good luck
(after Ed Murrow)

Canons' are indeed incredible popular. Most of my colleagues using Canon for news coverage and sports coverage. But it's also has some regional reasons. In Europe and the US Canon is more in favor than in for example Japan, although still leading.

The D700 replacement might bring some change to it but most of the market is already determined and Nikon knows that very well.

Michel

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- Objectivity is of the very essence of photography, its contribution and at the same time its limitation -
http://www.fotopropaganda.com
http://www.fotopropaganda.com/blog
http://www.flickr.com/photos/9240992@N05

I know several working PJs, admittedly small town rural America, that use Canon exclusively primarily due to the excellent service and support that they claim to get from CPS. Most working PJs have to work hand to mouth, none are getting rich, any support that they get from a supplier is greatly appreciated. Unfortunately NPS is not held in the same high regard.

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Conrad
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