Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 ===> My experience

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Sirandar
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Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 ===> My experience
6 months ago

Overall I don't like Adobe much with their intrusive methods of updating software and their not so good record of patching bugs BUT when I bought a new camera I noticed that Elements 9 couldn't really handle its raw files in any useful way.  It seemed the only way was to convert them all to DNG. I was a little miffed at this but I guess Elements is pretty cheap on sale and Adobe needs to make profit.

Where I was coming from:

Elements 9 with a fairly large library completely tagged an stable. Elements 9 had a lot of bugs that were never fixed but I learned what works and in the end I was satisfied with Elements. This issues that never got resolved were with laggy performance on my E-450 CPU laptop especially when making new tags.

The Transition:

Surprisingly there were no major issues upgrading and converting my catalog to Lightroom.  About 30 pictures of 22,000 had messed up dates, which I could only fix after exiting and manually updating the capture date.  Also 8 pictures were in formats Lightroom couldn't handle so I converted them.

Performance:

On desktop both Elements and Lightroom were snappy

On my E-450 CPU laptop I expected Lightroom to lag more but the opposite was true. It starts up faster and is significantly more responsive.  Best there is no 15-20 sec lag creating new tags/keywords with Lightroom.

Layout:

It took a lot of looking to find some features but everything from the Elements Organizer seems to there in Lightroom except the photo date strip (which never seems to work as expected in Elements anyway)

Lightroom absolutely blows Organizer out of the water in the ability to view and edit files right in the library view.  The controls actually work and do something useful as opposed to "auto smart fix" in Elements which was always a gamble.

Lightroom displayed and handled my raw files from my new camera seemlessly right out of the box.

I love that you can hide most of the crap you don't use in LR

World view seems to be bugged as some of my pics ended up in Africa.... My camera doesn't have a GPS anyway.

Editing and Developing:

Presets =  great  .... reminds me of Raw Shooter

Control =  The post-processing options for raw files work very well and I still have Elements 9 for more heavy edits and the integration of LR and Elements seems stable and easy.

Conclusion:

Did Adobe actually write this software? ....  After fighting with Elements for years it seems inconceivable that it works so well.  And LR seems to have real updates.

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San Francisco Guy
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Re: Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 ===> My experience
In reply to Sirandar, 6 months ago

I moved to Lightroom several months ago myself, but from iPhoto.  I have invested quite a bit of time with video tutorials, and I must say that I really like Lightroom!  I'm going to buy a better camera soon, and then I'll be able to truly explore all the features Lightroom has to offer.

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Ron AKA
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Re: Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 ===> My experience
In reply to Sirandar, 6 months ago

Did you use Adobe Camera RAW in Elements?

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Re: Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 ===> My experience
In reply to Ron AKA, 6 months ago

Ron AKA wrote:

Did you use Adobe Camera RAW in Elements?

Since he mentioned RAW numerous times, it would be a safe bet he did.

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Sirandar
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Re: Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 ===> My experience
In reply to Sirandar, 6 months ago

From the OP

No transition ever goes smoothly I guess and I did have a number of issues when I actually got down to doing PP work.

1) When you convert a Photoshop Elements Catalog to Lightroom 5.3 the Standard Previews and 1:1 Previews get messed up really bad.  When you try to do a complete build of these previews, Lightroom gets stuck and even caused a bluescreen (I haven't seen a bluescreen in years) ..... the good news is the fix is easy ..... just delete the previews directory after every thing is imported and stable and then do a preview build and I had no problems.

2) The other issue was stranger and caused me more grief.  I started processing jpgs and I noticed they looked washed out and ugly in Lightroom despite looking great on the camera and in Elements.  I forgot Elements sets its own colourspace and doesn't use the Windows one.  It stumped me for quite a while as i thought LR would never rely on the Windows colourspace.

A quick visit to Windows 7 colour management identified the problem .... Win7 was using some Samsung preset from I don't know where.

The only other thing that seems bizarre is that a simple cut and paste of LR settings from 1 picture copes well to another single picture, but not a group of pictures.  I could make a preset i guess but I often don't need to ...... why doesn't this work?

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miketuthill
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Re: Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 ===> My experience
In reply to Sirandar, 6 months ago

Sirandar wrote:

From the OP

No transition ever goes smoothly I guess and I did have a number of issues when I actually got down to doing PP work.

1) When you convert a Photoshop Elements Catalog to Lightroom 5.3 the Standard Previews and 1:1 Previews get messed up really bad. When you try to do a complete build of these previews, Lightroom gets stuck and even caused a bluescreen (I haven't seen a bluescreen in years) ..... the good news is the fix is easy ..... just delete the previews directory after every thing is imported and stable and then do a preview build and I had no problems.

2) The other issue was stranger and caused me more grief. I started processing jpgs and I noticed they looked washed out and ugly in Lightroom despite looking great on the camera and in Elements. I forgot Elements sets its own colourspace and doesn't use the Windows one. It stumped me for quite a while as i thought LR would never rely on the Windows colourspace.

A quick visit to Windows 7 colour management identified the problem .... Win7 was using some Samsung preset from I don't know where.

The only other thing that seems bizarre is that a simple cut and paste of LR settings from 1 picture copes well to another single picture, but not a group of pictures. I could make a preset i guess but I often don't need to ...... why doesn't this work?

There's more than one way to skin a cat but here's one way to do what you want that is pretty simple.  If you select the applicable images in the Film Strip and then change the Sync button at the bottom of the adjustment controls to Auto-Sync any changes you make to one image will also be applied to the other selected images.

Here's a couple screenshots illustrating what I'm saying:

In this shot you can see the 4 images selected in the Film Strip and you'll also notice the "Sync" button near the bottom right above the Film Strip.

In this shot you can see that I've changed the "Sync" to "Auto Sync" and I've increased the Exposure.  As you can see all 4 images reflect the exposure change in the Film Strip.

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Sirandar
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Re: Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 ===> My experience
In reply to miketuthill, 6 months ago

Thanks so much for the advice  .... that will save me some Google time....

I am pretty much happy how things are laid out .....  very intuitive for the most part... reminds me of Raw Shooter from ages ago....

For those considering the transition of Elements to Lightroom:

The database module in LR seems very much more efficient, quick and reliable than Elements 9.  I am not talking about a little bit .... I have already successfully completed database operations in LR that I wouldn't even think of attempting in the Elements Organizer.

Somebody at Adobe must have actually paid for a top notch SQL programming team .... who would have thought

Even the Map View works in Lightroom on my Laptop for complex database operations .....  The Elements map view bogged or crashed with a few hundred pictures on a highish end PC.

I stuck with Elements for way too long because I had no confidence that there was anything better.

I will still use Elements for the masking tools as they are sufficient.  Doesn't support 16 bit but that is not likely to matter much if I am just cloning and healing a final image.

The healing brush in LR is very rudimentary but I understand why ......

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Sirandar
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Re: Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 ===> My experience
In reply to Sirandar, 6 months ago

Further updates in the Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 from the OP

I am amazed at the database capabilities of Lightroom.

It works so well I decided to add gps coordinates to all the pictures I had a places tag on in Elements.

Method:

1) Go to the first places tag/keyword and select the photos

2) Remember out about where it was (Sometimes this is only a ball park)

3) Go to Google maps and make your best guess at the location

4) Right click and select "Whats Here" to get GPS coordinates and enter them into the metadata under GPS

5) Do a sync for all pics with this tag

6) Write the keywords to the files (you could do this for all pics at the end)

7) Repeat unlit your brain hurts.

It is best to do the broad geographic tags first so that the more specific locations aren't over written.

The Experience and Issues:

It took about 4 hours off and on to do about 300 locations and 10K pictures on a recent PC with a SSD

Lightroom didn't crash even once

Lightroom slowed down about 1/2 was through the process but exiting Lightroom fixed this (there must be some minor resource leaks)

My workflow exposed a pretty big issue with importing a Elements 9 catalog .....  Elements 9 allows commas in the tags, Lightroom does not allow commas in keywords  BUT upon import of a Elements 9 library LR imports the tags as keywords with commas.  This does not seem to casuse any issues but it does ..... the commas in the keywords cause those pictures show up under the filter that describes pictures that the catalog is not in sync with the file metadata = conflicts.  Updating the tag doesn't fix the conflict nor does wrting the catalog from the file.  Only removing the offending comma from the keyword prevents the semirandom conflicts in the metadata.  I imagine in the long term this could cause serious issue in Lightroom catalog.

The World View in LR actually works  with about 10K GPS tagged pictures .... unbelievable.

If your pictures show up somewhere near Africa it is because your camera or software but 0,0,0,0 in the GPS metadata.

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Ron AKA
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Re: Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 ===> My experience
In reply to Sirandar, 6 months ago

That all sounds nice, but those are all features I would never use, and consider them an annoyance. Perhaps that is why I dislike Lightroom and iTunes.

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Re: Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 ===> My experience
In reply to Sirandar, 6 months ago

Sirandar wrote:

Thanks so much for the advice .... that will save me some Google time....

I am pretty much happy how things are laid out ..... very intuitive for the most part... reminds me of Raw Shooter from ages ago....

For those considering the transition of Elements to Lightroom:

The database module in LR seems very much more efficient, quick and reliable than Elements 9. I am not talking about a little bit .... I have already successfully completed database operations in LR that I wouldn't even think of attempting in the Elements Organizer.

Somebody at Adobe must have actually paid for a top notch SQL programming team .... who would have thought

Even the Map View works in Lightroom on my Laptop for complex database operations ..... The Elements map view bogged or crashed with a few hundred pictures on a highish end PC.

I stuck with Elements for way too long because I had no confidence that there was anything better.

I will still use Elements for the masking tools as they are sufficient. Doesn't support 16 bit but that is not likely to matter much if I am just cloning and healing a final image.

The healing brush in LR is very rudimentary but I understand why ......

The healing brush in Lightroom is actually more capable and easier to use since it offers a real time preview of the change to the target when you move the source to allow for very fast tweaking of corrections and for perfect alignment. Even Photoshop CC does not have that.

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Sirandar
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Re: Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 ===> My experience
In reply to Ron AKA, 6 months ago

I didn't use all these features in Elements because they didn't even close to work properly ....

In Lightroom they do ..... everything seems to work in Lightroom.

It is a actually very nice to be able to post-geotag your pictures and see them on the map, plus see the pictures geotagged as taken.   It is a nice feature whose time has now come.  I wouldn't have believed it either.  You obviously don't need to use this feature if you don't want to.

ITunes is bloated crapware, but there is nothing I can see bloated about Lightroom 5.3. It starts and operates very quickly on my Laptop with a low end AMD E-450 CPU (with a SSD obviously) Every single feature I have tried both works and serves a function.  In short it isn't bloated at all like Itunes that is slow as a dog and installs 7 services and 8 processes. Lightroom is much more like MediaMonkey than Itunes.

Now if Adobe really wanted to make a killer product they would release it with Elements Editor stripped of the Organizer and all the associated overhead and make it handle 16 bit photopro compatible. All in one install .... that would be a product worth the $$$.

That is all most PP would need.

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Sirandar
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Re: Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 ===> My experience
In reply to Ron AKA, 6 months ago

Ron AKA wrote:

That all sounds nice, but those are all features I would never use, and consider them an annoyance. Perhaps that is why I dislike Lightroom and iTunes.

PS.   I ignored LR until the 5.3 release because I assumed that Adobe wouldn't have done it right. IMO they have.  It is hard for me to believe that Lightroom game from the same place that made Elements, Flash and Acrobat.  I have nightmares about how Flash and Acrobat updates on my computers.

Previous versions may have had enough issues to sour your opinion.

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Barry Margolius
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Re: Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 ===> My experience
In reply to Sirandar, 6 months ago

I tried your GPS procedure, but when I brought up Google Maps, and right clicked on a location, I did not get an option for "What's Here?"

Did I miss a step?

-barry

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miketuthill
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Re: Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 ===> My experience
In reply to Barry Margolius, 6 months ago

Barry Margolius wrote:

I tried your GPS procedure, but when I brought up Google Maps, and right clicked on a location, I did not get an option for "What's Here?"

Did I miss a step?

You may not have been using Google Maps.  The OP is not talking about the Map module within LR but rather the Google Maps function on the Google site I believe.

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Barry Margolius
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Re: Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 ===> My experience
In reply to miketuthill, 6 months ago

miketuthill wrote:

Barry Margolius wrote:

I tried your GPS procedure, but when I brought up Google Maps, and right clicked on a location, I did not get an option for "What's Here?"

Did I miss a step?

You may not have been using Google Maps. The OP is not talking about the Map module within LR but rather the Google Maps function on the Google site I believe.

-- hide signature --

Good guess, but I was using Google Maps in Firefox on a Windows 7 computer.

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miketuthill
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Re: Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 ===> My experience
In reply to Barry Margolius, 6 months ago

Barry Margolius wrote:

miketuthill wrote:

Barry Margolius wrote:

I tried your GPS procedure, but when I brought up Google Maps, and right clicked on a location, I did not get an option for "What's Here?"

Did I miss a step?

You may not have been using Google Maps. The OP is not talking about the Map module within LR but rather the Google Maps function on the Google site I believe.

-- hide signature --

Good guess, but I was using Google Maps in Firefox on a Windows 7 computer.

Works for me in Chrome.

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Barry Margolius
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Re: Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 ===> My experience
In reply to miketuthill, 6 months ago

miketuthill wrote:

Barry Margolius wrote:

miketuthill wrote:

Barry Margolius wrote:

I tried your GPS procedure, but when I brought up Google Maps, and right clicked on a location, I did not get an option for "What's Here?"

Did I miss a step?

You may not have been using Google Maps. The OP is not talking about the Map module within LR but rather the Google Maps function on the Google site I believe.

-- hide signature --

Good guess, but I was using Google Maps in Firefox on a Windows 7 computer.

Works for me in Chrome.

-- hide signature --

I just tried it in Chrome, and it doesn't work there either.  After some investigation, I discovered that, if the location is not flagged, I can left click on it, and the address and GPS will appear on the upper left of the screen.  But, if I right click, nothing happens.  If I have the location flagged, then it will not show the GPS even if I left click on it.

Grrr...

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miketuthill
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Re: Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 ===> My experience
In reply to Barry Margolius, 6 months ago

Barry Margolius wrote:

miketuthill wrote:

Barry Margolius wrote:

miketuthill wrote:

Barry Margolius wrote:

I tried your GPS procedure, but when I brought up Google Maps, and right clicked on a location, I did not get an option for "What's Here?"

Did I miss a step?

You may not have been using Google Maps. The OP is not talking about the Map module within LR but rather the Google Maps function on the Google site I believe.

-- hide signature --

Good guess, but I was using Google Maps in Firefox on a Windows 7 computer.

Works for me in Chrome.

I just tried it in Chrome, and it doesn't work there either. After some investigation, I discovered that, if the location is not flagged, I can left click on it, and the address and GPS will appear on the upper left of the screen. But, if I right click, nothing happens. If I have the location flagged, then it will not show the GPS even if I left click on it.

Grrr...

Just so that you can see that it is possible......

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Barry Margolius
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Re: Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 ===> My experience
In reply to miketuthill, 6 months ago

Very interesting.  I happened to notice on your screenshot that you were from Canada.  The US version of maps apparently works differently.  When I pointed my browser to maps.google.ca everything worked exactly as you (and the OP) suggested.

Maps.google.com does not seem to support the right click options!

Thanks,

-barry

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miketuthill
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Re: Adobe Elements 9 to Lightroom 5.3 ===> My experience
In reply to Barry Margolius, 6 months ago

Barry Margolius wrote:

Very interesting. I happened to notice on your screenshot that you were from Canada. The US version of maps apparently works differently. When I pointed my browser to maps.google.ca everything worked exactly as you (and the OP) suggested.

Maps.google.com does not seem to support the right click options!

What's even more interesting is that when I go to maps.google.com I get this when I right click:

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