XT-1 - not as impressed as everybody else.

Started 8 months ago | Discussions
justin_time
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XT-1 - not as impressed as everybody else.
8 months ago

Well I was really looking forward to X-T1 based on reviews.
But I am not enthused due to ergonomic deficiencies:

- the EV comp dial is too big and edge not chamfered enough.  So its uncomfortable to hold camera  / get chafing on index finger.  It maybe my method of holding camera needs to be adjusted, but on X-E1/2 I had got into the habit of index finger reaching of EV comp dial to shutter.
- most buttons are recessed/too small. especially the 4 way controller.
- there is a small lip on LHS of LCD to allow it to be tilted. Unfortunately it catches side of my nose.  It maybe noticeable as its not rangefinder style (EVF on left) that I have got used to. Also I notice the OMD SLR style cameras EVF sticks out further at back.
But I do like the EVF.

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Al Valentino
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Re: XT-1 - not as impressed as everybody else.
In reply to justin_time, 8 months ago

Interesting. I do not have the XT but have read a few times about the 4-way controlled being a bit too recessed and even the shutter button not being in an ideal position.

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shigzeo ?
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Re: XT-1 - not as impressed as everybody else.
In reply to justin_time, 8 months ago

justin_time wrote:

Well I was really looking forward to X-T1 based on reviews.
But I am not enthused due to ergonomic deficiencies:

- the EV comp dial is too big and edge not chamfered enough. So its uncomfortable to hold camera / get chafing on index finger. It maybe my method of holding camera needs to be adjusted, but on X-E1/2 I had got into the habit of index finger reaching of EV comp dial to shutter.
- most buttons are recessed/too small. especially the 4 way controller.
- there is a small lip on LHS of LCD to allow it to be tilted. Unfortunately it catches side of my nose. It maybe noticeable as its not rangefinder style (EVF on left) that I have got used to. Also I notice the OMD SLR style cameras EVF sticks out further at back.
But I do like the EVF.

The EV dial has some problems that earlier X cameras did not. Namely, it is harder to adjust with a thumb than with two fingers and forces the user to use two fingers rather than a thumb. 
I don't understand what you mean with the EV comp dial to shutter.

Buttons are too small/recessed. The four-way controller is poorly fit to thumb navigation.

All flip screens cause problems for noses.

No mirrorless camera apart from the X-Pro 1 is even remotely akin to a rangefinder. Rangefinder digital cameras such as the Espson RD1 and the Leica Ms, are. But that is because they are rangefinders. If you use an XE-1, the only thing remotely close to a rangefinder is the position of the viewing piece. But the design and functionality is far closer to an Olympus Pen SLR than any rangefinder, ever.

The EVF is good enough for a lot of use, but shows, still, that there is a long way to go until the OVF is replaced. For casual stuff and AF lenses, it is mostly good enough, or is completely able to replace the OVF, but for fast-paced and critical work against bright backgrounds (among other things), it is far and away from perfect. But it's getting there.

I totally dig the X-t1, warts and all.

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Dorkington
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Re: XT-1 - not as impressed as everybody else.
In reply to justin_time, 8 months ago

Not every camera is built to every person's hands, too. Nothing wrong with that.

I have a feeling the buttons and knobs might be a result of weather sealing, though. Might take them a generation or two to hit the sweet spot there.

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Dorkington
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Re: XT-1 - not as impressed as everybody else.
In reply to shigzeo ?, 8 months ago

shigzeo ? wrote:

justin_time wrote:

Well I was really looking forward to X-T1 based on reviews.
But I am not enthused due to ergonomic deficiencies:

- the EV comp dial is too big and edge not chamfered enough. So its uncomfortable to hold camera / get chafing on index finger. It maybe my method of holding camera needs to be adjusted, but on X-E1/2 I had got into the habit of index finger reaching of EV comp dial to shutter.
- most buttons are recessed/too small. especially the 4 way controller.
- there is a small lip on LHS of LCD to allow it to be tilted. Unfortunately it catches side of my nose. It maybe noticeable as its not rangefinder style (EVF on left) that I have got used to. Also I notice the OMD SLR style cameras EVF sticks out further at back.
But I do like the EVF.

The EV dial has some problems that earlier X cameras did not. Namely, it is harder to adjust with a thumb than with two fingers and forces the user to use two fingers rather than a thumb.
I don't understand what you mean with the EV comp dial to shutter.

Buttons are too small/recessed. The four-way controller is poorly fit to thumb navigation.

All flip screens cause problems for noses.

No mirrorless camera apart from the X-Pro 1 is even remotely akin to a rangefinder. Rangefinder digital cameras such as the Espson RD1 and the Leica Ms, are. But that is because they are rangefinders. If you use an XE-1, the only thing remotely close to a rangefinder is the position of the viewing piece. But the design and functionality is far closer to an Olympus Pen SLR than any rangefinder, ever.

The EVF is good enough for a lot of use, but shows, still, that there is a long way to go until the OVF is replaced. For casual stuff and AF lenses, it is mostly good enough, or is completely able to replace the OVF, but for fast-paced and critical work against bright backgrounds (among other things), it is far and away from perfect. But it's getting there.

I totally dig the X-t1, warts and all.

Note, he said "rangefinder style".

Rangefinder style is only referring to a style of camera, not the function. It helps identify the shape of a camera. In this case, a rectangular camera with the viewfinder in the upper left hand corner (facing the back of the camera).

SLR style is used when referring to cameras such as the X-T1, A7/r and OMD-E-Mx cameras. In this case, it's referring to a viewfinder hump in the top middle of the camera. It is not to insinuate that the camera has reflex mirror system.

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David McGaughey
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Getting closer Fuji
In reply to justin_time, 8 months ago

justin_time wrote:

Well I was really looking forward to X-T1 based on reviews.
But I am not enthused due to ergonomic deficiencies:

- the EV comp dial is too big and edge not chamfered enough. So its uncomfortable to hold camera / get chafing on index finger. It maybe my method of holding camera needs to be adjusted, but on X-E1/2 I had got into the habit of index finger reaching of EV comp dial to shutter.
- most buttons are recessed/too small. especially the 4 way controller.
- there is a small lip on LHS of LCD to allow it to be tilted. Unfortunately it catches side of my nose. It maybe noticeable as its not rangefinder style (EVF on left) that I have got used to. Also I notice the OMD SLR style cameras EVF sticks out further at back.
But I do like the EVF.

These complaints are a lot better than earlier Fuji complaints:

1. AF is crazy slow

2. RAW conversions are horrific. Why is Silkypix the only option?!

3. Why is this camera so sluggish to display pictures?

I think Fuji moved the EV dial because people complained about it moving inadvertently in bags with the earlier X cameras.

The buttons are smaller and recessed because the body is small and people complained about inadvertent presses. It sounds like Fuji over-reacted. Also, this is their first weather-sealed attempt. The X-T2 will probably be a lot better. Just need to wait two years....

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nick_webster
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Agree about the 4-way controller
In reply to justin_time, 8 months ago

In fact I was just about to start a thread as nobody else seemed to have mentioned it

It is awkward for my not overly large thumb to operate. In fact I'm using my thumbnail as a work around to the problem.

Personally I'm not having problems with any of your other bug bears, but as a left eye dominant I'm used to my nose and/or other bits of my face coming into contact with various bits of camera body

Nick

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pcb_dpr
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Re: XT-1 - not as impressed as everybody else.
In reply to justin_time, 8 months ago

I've only managed to hold a borrowed XT1 for a few minutes of hand-holding, so I can't address any button-size/placement/etc issues.

I will say that, although there are at least a couple of "wrong" ways to hold a camera, I recognize there are probably more than one "right" way to hold one. But the Fuji EV comp dials are thumb wheels to me, on every Fuji X-series camera I've had, used or held. I spin the EV dial with my thumb. Can't imagine holding the camera in a way any other finger would get used.

I've had other cameras with more frontally-mounted dials, where index or middle finger would be used to turn the dial. But a rear-mounted shutter or EV dial gets my thumb...

justin_time wrote:

...But I am not enthused due to ergonomic deficiencies:

- the EV comp dial is too big and edge not chamfered enough. So its uncomfortable to hold camera / get chafing on index finger. It maybe my method of holding camera needs to be adjusted, but on X-E1/2 I had got into the habit of index finger reaching of EV comp dial to shutter.

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fluxism
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Re: XT-1 - not as impressed as everybody else.
In reply to justin_time, 8 months ago

glad to read a few complaints to lessen regrets about having just bought an x-e2

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Al Valentino
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Re: Getting closer Fuji
In reply to David McGaughey, 8 months ago

For those XE or Pro users that have problems with the EC dial moving easily I suggest you consider an Thumb Grip. I just picked up one from Lens mate on Amazon for $59 and it not only gets rid of the problem, it really helps with balance and handling.

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Bill Robb
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Re: XT-1 - not as impressed as everybody else.
In reply to justin_time, 8 months ago

Oh the humanity, Fuji has built a camera that is not ergonomically perfect for every one of the 7 billion people on this rock.
May as well blow up the island.

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57LowRider
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Re: Getting closer Fuji
In reply to Al Valentino, 8 months ago

Al Valentino wrote:

For those XE or Pro users that have problems with the EC dial moving easily I suggest you consider an Thumb Grip. I just picked up one from Lens mate on Amazon for $59 and it not only gets rid of the problem, it really helps with balance and handling.

I'd be lost without my thumb rest on the X-E1, it works very well for me. So much so that one of the first things I said about the X-T1 was "where does the thumb rest go?"

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deednets
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Re: XT-1 - not as impressed as everybody else.
In reply to fluxism, 8 months ago

fluxism wrote:

glad to read a few complaints to lessen regrets about having just bought an x-e2

Well firstly there is nothing wrong with the X-E2 and, if the X-E2 had been placed more expensive than the X-T1 there would still have been a considerable number buying the X-E2, simply because of the form factor. Not everything that is physically bigger is necessarily more expensive!

Often forgotten, me thinks, I for one, really, really like the X-E2. Possibly not in the same way some X-E1 user like the X-E1 over the 2, but simply for the matured way the X-E2 presents itself.

Deed

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Al Valentino
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Re: Getting closer Fuji
In reply to 57LowRider, 8 months ago

57LowRider wrote:

Al Valentino wrote:

For those XE or Pro users that have problems with the EC dial moving easily I suggest you consider an Thumb Grip. I just picked up one from Lens mate on Amazon for $59 and it not only gets rid of the problem, it really helps with balance and handling.

I'd be lost without my thumb rest on the X-E1, it works very well for me. So much so that one of the first things I said about the X-T1 was "where does the thumb rest go?"

I also have the iShoot l bracket w/grip but the grip looks ugly. Will use for tripod work and when using bigger lenses but the thumb rest will always be attached and it looks stylish with a shutter button and leather half case. I love it when form and function comes together.

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khunfred
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Re: XT-1 - not as impressed as everybody else.
In reply to Bill Robb, 8 months ago

Bill Robb wrote:

Oh the humanity, Fuji has built a camera that is not ergonomically perfect for every one of the 7 billion people on this rock.
May as well blow up the island.

If it's just some insignificant ergonomic issues, I think Fuji could sell 7 billions XT-1.;-)

Some people want a small camera with big knobs, zoom lenses small as pancakes, and getting the best of a camera after 5 minutes of use.

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JDHarris007
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Re: XT-1 - not as impressed as everybody else.
In reply to justin_time, 8 months ago

I'm coming from a D3s and a D800e.  I really like the camera in general, but there are a couple things that bother me so far.

The biggest is the location of the AF-L button.  It's right above the rear thumb grip protrusion, which makes it really hard to hit with my thumb while holding the camera.  I wish I could swap it with the AE-L button (which is perfectly placed for my desired use) or assign the AF-L functionality to the front function button.  This is pretty significant for me because I use the back button focus method.

The second thing I have noticed is the continuous autofocus never seems to lock or settle on something.  If you point it at a stationary object, the focus will constantly shuffle back and forth between front focusing and rear focusing on the object.  My Nikons will get into focus and then stop until the camera or object moves.  It's not the end of the world, but it does make the continuous autofocus hard for me to use.

I think I may buy the battery grip too.  I have large hands and the camera may be slightly too small.  I will play with it for a bit to see if I can find a way to hold it that won't give me hand cramps or have me accidentally hitting buttons.

Im looking forward to RAW support in Capture One and Lightroom so I can really see if this camera will do what I hope.  The size and weight is great for a camera that could be carried with you.  The Nikon stuff is more polished and perform ant, but  it requires a dedicated photo outing for me to lug it all around.

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Lakeview Man
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Re: Getting closer Fuji
In reply to David McGaughey, 8 months ago

David McGaughey wrote:

justin_time wrote:

Well I was really looking forward to X-T1 based on reviews.
But I am not enthused due to ergonomic deficiencies:

- the EV comp dial is too big and edge not chamfered enough. So its uncomfortable to hold camera / get chafing on index finger. It maybe my method of holding camera needs to be adjusted, but on X-E1/2 I had got into the habit of index finger reaching of EV comp dial to shutter.
- most buttons are recessed/too small. especially the 4 way controller.
- there is a small lip on LHS of LCD to allow it to be tilted. Unfortunately it catches side of my nose. It maybe noticeable as its not rangefinder style (EVF on left) that I have got used to. Also I notice the OMD SLR style cameras EVF sticks out further at back.
But I do like the EVF.

These complaints are a lot better than earlier Fuji complaints:

1. AF is crazy slow

2. RAW conversions are horrific. Why is Silkypix the only option?!

3. Why is this camera so sluggish to display pictures?

I think Fuji moved the EV dial because people complained about it moving inadvertently in bags with the earlier X cameras.

The buttons are smaller and recessed because the body is small and people complained about inadvertent presses. It sounds like Fuji over-reacted. Also, this is their first weather-sealed attempt. The X-T2 will probably be a lot better. Just need to wait two years....

Nr 2: Raw conversions are horrific. Why is Silkypix the only option?! ...

That's a lie. Or misunderstanding. Got both X-Pro1 and X100s.

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Tapper123
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Re: XT-1 - not as impressed as everybody else.
In reply to Dorkington, 8 months ago

Dorkington wrote:

Not every camera is built to every person's hands, too. Nothing wrong with that.

I have a feeling the buttons and knobs might be a result of weather sealing, though. Might take them a generation or two to hit the sweet spot there.

Exactly right. I had an OMD Em5 for a while and it sounds similar to what I'm reading about X-T1's rear buttons being recessed and not that easy to push. It wasn't a big deal to me on the EM5, but many hated it.

I would not be surprised to see this fixed next year in an X-T2, along with a a few other minor issues people will discover.

Overall it seems Fuji got the X-T1 maybe 98% right. Just a few minor quirks. Not bad.

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MayaTlab0
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Re: XT-1 - not as impressed as everybody else.
In reply to khunfred, 8 months ago

khunfred wrote:

Bill Robb wrote:

Oh the humanity, Fuji has built a camera that is not ergonomically perfect for every one of the 7 billion people on this rock.
May as well blow up the island.

If it's just some insignificant ergonomic issues, I think Fuji could sell 7 billions XT-1.;-)

Some people want a small camera with big knobs, zoom lenses small as pancakes, and getting the best of a camera after 5 minutes of use.

As insignificant as they may appear, ultimately, it's those ergonomical difference that make or brake a particular function on a camera.

At the 1DX / D4 level, some pros will be very much tempted to switch systems for ergonomical reasons alone (whether they carry or not the desire usually depends on their system investment). At the opposite end of the scale, part of the reason why smartphones took over compact cameras is that they were more ergonomical to use for some application.

Just an example related to AF performances : mirrorless cameras are often criticised for their AF-C performances as we all know, and we've seen a tremendous increase in performance in that matter over the last year. Yet, without proper ergonomics, a performant AF system is useless for action shooting. When you realise that you still can't quickly change focus points on all mirrorless cameras appart from the OM-Ds, you realise there is a bit of a problem. A Canon 7D / 5DIII / 1DX or Nikon D7100 / D800 / D610 / D4 (pick your poison) remains miles ahead mirrorless cameras for continuous AF, not just because of their performance, but also because of their user interface / ergonomics.

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SaltLakeGuy
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Re: XT-1 - not as impressed as everybody else.
In reply to Bill Robb, 8 months ago

LOL no kidding. Ya mean Fuji had the gaul to build a imperfect device? How dare they! I'm coming from a EM1. I'll say this for the most part Olympus got that design pretty right as after all they had a lot of examples to practice on. Indeed it seems the recess of the D Pad on the X-T1 has ruffled a few feathers. I can however see the sense of it. Nobody will now complain they have triggered something by mistake.   I especially LOVE the one touch for 100% view of the shot taken. Sure saves time dialing up the magnification levels. I have NO issues with the dials as it seems my hands are perhaps similar to their test module used to design this thing. My nose doesn't get smashed up against the LCD either. All in all it just works. Even the shutter button, while different has not been an issue for me to adjust to. It was too easy to mistakenly take a shot with the EM1, not so on the T1. In truth the ONLY thing on this entire camera that kind of raised my eyebrows a tad was the SD card door. It is MUCH easier to operate which is good, but if you squeeze the side right on the door there is a tiny bit of flex. Not a big deal, just surprised me I guess. Ergonomically however I think they did a good job overall.

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