What is a 'Pro' Photographer, really?

Started 5 months ago | Discussions
pavi1
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,829Gear list
Like?
Re: What is a 'Pro' Photographer, really?
In reply to Rservello, 5 months ago

Rservello wrote:

OceanFroggie wrote:

A person whose primary income is earned from taking photographs.

Ie. is engaged in a "profession"

It has nothing to do with skill level, although one would assume most "pros" have good skills. Highly skilled and talented amateur/entusiasts are not pros.

And not all highly paid pros are skilled. **ahem, Terry Richardson**

High pay and high skill are totally unrelated to "Pro" vs "Armature". Think music industry. There are some highly paid professionals in the business who are not highly skilled. They are by definition still professional musicians. On the other hand there are highly skilled who are not "Pro" because of choice.

Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planning
WSSA #44

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Rservello
Senior MemberPosts: 1,139Gear list
Like?
Re: What is a 'Pro' Photographer, really?
In reply to pavi1, 5 months ago

pavi1 wrote:

Rservello wrote:

OceanFroggie wrote:

A person whose primary income is earned from taking photographs.

Ie. is engaged in a "profession"

It has nothing to do with skill level, although one would assume most "pros" have good skills. Highly skilled and talented amateur/entusiasts are not pros.

And not all highly paid pros are skilled. **ahem, Terry Richardson**

High pay and high skill are totally unrelated to "Pro" vs "Armature". Think music industry. There are some highly paid professionals in the business who are not highly skilled. They are by definition still professional musicians. On the other hand there are highly skilled who are not "Pro" because of choice.

Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planning
WSSA #44

That was the point

-- hide signature --

https://www.flickr.com/photos/49019071@N03/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2334596/
* Sensitive Internet User Disclaimer: All opinions are my own and are not meant to offend you or damage your precious beliefs.

 Rservello's gear list:Rservello's gear list
Nikon D600 Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D Voigtlander 58mm F1.4 Nokton SL II Rokinon 85mm F1.4 Apple Aperture +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Flight815
Regular MemberPosts: 121
Like?
Re: What is a 'Pro' Photographer, really?
In reply to fredphotog, 4 months ago

a pro,is someone who makes money from ones services. doesnt mean they have to be able to support themselves with this ONE profession. Just means they make money doing it.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tcg550
Contributing MemberPosts: 773
Like?
Re: What is a 'Pro' Photographer, really?
In reply to fredphotog, 4 months ago

I didn't read all the responses but I'm from the who cares camp. Why is this such an issue for photographers?

Are there plumbing forums having the same discussion? Or accountant forums having the same discussion? I wonder if there is a prostitute forum discussing the issue.

If a person works at a hardware store as a cashier and they only work 2 days a week to supplement their income in order to continue living indoors, is that person a professional cashier or just a cashier? Is a full time cashier a professional?

Is there a cashier forum somewhere where part time cashiers get picked apart because they are not professional as defined by the professional cashiers?

What about a part time line cook? Is he a professional?

It's silly. How about everyone just go about their business and not worry what other people do or call themselves.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jackdan
Contributing MemberPosts: 753
Like?
Re: Simple Minds
In reply to pavi1, 4 months ago

pavi1 wrote:

This too simple for this many comments.

What is pro mechanic?

What is a pro football player?

What is a pro anything?

Simple answer: a person who makes their living from the activity in question. It has nothing to do with the quality of the product.

Are all engineers professionals or only professional engineers?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jackdan
Contributing MemberPosts: 753
Like?
Re: What is a 'Pro' Photographer, really?
In reply to bruxi, 4 months ago

bruxi wrote:

fredphotog wrote:

We discuss it here, we see people say 'I am no Pro..', but these folks take darned good photos.

So what make a 'Pro' a 'Pro'?

It used to be if you made 50% or more of your income from a 'hobby' then you were considered a 'Pro'.

Some folks think if you are published then you are a 'Pro'.

I see people with $20,000 in equipment call themselves a 'Pro' but create crappy work.

So TODAY, what makes a 'Pro'?

If you earn 50% or more of your income from photography you are a pro photographer.
If you earn less than 50% of your income from photography you are an amateur photographer.

There is no need to complicate this stuff further than that.

Where does 50% come from? That makes zero sense.

Yeah, I thought it was 45%.

A specific number is certainly more precision than is warranted, but there does need to be a threshold. I have sold some photos, but that does not make me a professional.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jackdan
Contributing MemberPosts: 753
Like?
Re: What is a 'Pro' Photographer, really?
In reply to Aberaeron, 4 months ago

Aberaeron wrote:

A photographer who prostitutes themselves.

That's it, in plain and simple terms.

Not according to the definition of prostitutes.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jackdan
Contributing MemberPosts: 753
Like?
Re: If You are Paid Anything - You are a Pro
In reply to donaldsc, 4 months ago

donaldsc wrote:

What could be simpler.

-- hide signature --

Don

But is it that simple?

If a wealthy person sells a few photos for small amounts, technically he or she may be professional, but in the real world would they be considered professional photographers?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jackdan
Contributing MemberPosts: 753
Like?
Re: What is a 'Pro' Photographer, really?
In reply to OceanFroggie, 4 months ago

OceanFroggie wrote:

A person whose primary income is earned from taking photographs.

Ie. is engaged in a "profession"

But is photography a profession?

It has nothing to do with skill level, although one would assume most "pros" have good skills. Highly skilled and talented amateur/entusiasts are not pros.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Rservello
Senior MemberPosts: 1,139Gear list
Like?
Re: What is a 'Pro' Photographer, really?
In reply to jackdan, 4 months ago

jackdan wrote:

OceanFroggie wrote:

A person whose primary income is earned from taking photographs.

Ie. is engaged in a "profession"

But is photography a profession?

It has nothing to do with skill level, although one would assume most "pros" have good skills. Highly skilled and talented amateur/entusiasts are not pros.

If it pays your bills. It sure is.

-- hide signature --

https://www.flickr.com/photos/49019071@N03/
http://www.imdb.com/name/nm2334596/
* Sensitive Internet User Disclaimer: All opinions are my own and are not meant to offend you or damage your precious beliefs.

 Rservello's gear list:Rservello's gear list
Nikon D600 Nikon AF Nikkor 50mm f/1.8D Voigtlander 58mm F1.4 Nokton SL II Rokinon 85mm F1.4 Apple Aperture +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jackdan
Contributing MemberPosts: 753
Like?
Do the dictionary definitions not apply?
In reply to fredphotog, 4 months ago

I think the reason the meaning of the word professional comes up so often in these forums is the fragile egos of nonprofessional photographers in general. In general mind you, not all. I do think, however, that maybe the fragile egos gravitate to these forums (please, not fora).

Some skilled hobbyist photographers feel slighted that they are not considered a "professional level" photographer, because they think their skills are better than those of many professionals.

That is because the word professional comes with some baggage. Some expectation of proficiency is often associated with the word. In the case of professional photographer proficiency should be associated with photographer and not professional.

That then raises the question of what is a photographer? Is it really just anyone who takes a picture with a camera? I am fairly competent with a DSLR, but don't consider myself a photographer, especially when compared to many of you. Or maybe it is relative. Compared to my 11yr old granddaughter using her dad's old D90, I might be considered a photographer, Nah.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
AdSR
Forum MemberPosts: 97
Like?
Re: Do the dictionary definitions not apply?
In reply to jackdan, 4 months ago

That then raises the question of what is a photographer? Is it really just anyone who takes a picture with a camera? I am fairly competent with a DSLR, but don't consider myself a photographer, especially when compared to many of you. Or maybe it is relative. Compared to my 11yr old granddaughter using her dad's old D90, I might be considered a photographer, Nah.

Anyone who takes a picture intentionally. It's the intent that makes you a photographer. The quality of your work is just a quantitative measure of how well you transform that intent into results. That quality is relative to other photographers' work and depends on who's evaluating it (and by what measure).

-- hide signature --

'I don't need a better camera, I need better imagination.'

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
jackdan
Contributing MemberPosts: 753
Like?
Re: Do the dictionary definitions not apply?
In reply to AdSR, 4 months ago

AdSR wrote:

That then raises the question of what is a photographer? Is it really just anyone who takes a picture with a camera? I am fairly competent with a DSLR, but don't consider myself a photographer, especially when compared to many of you. Or maybe it is relative. Compared to my 11yr old granddaughter using her dad's old D90, I might be considered a photographer, Nah.

Anyone who takes a picture intentionally. It's the intent that makes you a photographer. The quality of your work is just a quantitative measure of how well you transform that intent into results. That quality is relative to other photographers' work and depends on who's evaluating it (and by what measure).

So then a professional photographer is someone who makes a significant income by taking photographs. As several people have already said, it is all pretty simple really.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
tcg550
Contributing MemberPosts: 773
Like?
Re: What is a 'Pro' Photographer, really?
In reply to fredphotog, 4 months ago

I was at Home Depot today and when I pulled in they had 4 parking spots reserved that said Pro Parking Only.

I wonder how they determine a pro. It didn't state pro builder or pro carpenter so I wonder if a pro photographer could park there and then I wonder how they determine what a pro is.

Next time I stop by there I think I'll ask. Maybe they can clear up the debate.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
wasserball
Senior MemberPosts: 2,342
Like?
I am a pro, but I make no money
In reply to fredphotog, 4 months ago

I'm a sport photographer and shoot special assignments.  I do not work for a living. Am I a pro? Yes.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
pavi1
Veteran MemberPosts: 4,829Gear list
Like?
Re: What is a 'Pro' Photographer, really?
In reply to jackdan, 4 months ago

jackdan wrote:

OceanFroggie wrote:

A person whose primary income is earned from taking photographs.

Ie. is engaged in a "profession"

But is photography a profession?

You asking in a religious context or a USA tax code context?

-- hide signature --

Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planning
WSSA #44

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Klaus dk
Senior MemberPosts: 2,300Gear list
Like?
How to make a small fortune by photography...
In reply to fredphotog, 4 months ago

... start with a big fortune:-)

 Klaus dk's gear list:Klaus dk's gear list
Canon PowerShot S100 Canon EOS 7D Canon EF 35mm f/2.0 Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Canon EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 USM +6 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Kodachrome200
Contributing MemberPosts: 756Gear list
Like?
your stealing the meaning of the word professional
In reply to fredphotog, 4 months ago

it means you make money doing it.

 Kodachrome200's gear list:Kodachrome200's gear list
Ricoh GR Nikon D800 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 14-24mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II Sigma 12-24mm F4.5-5.6 EX DG Aspherical HSM +3 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Dylan Johnson
Regular MemberPosts: 143Gear list
Like?
Re: What is a 'Pro' Photographer, really?
In reply to hdr, 4 months ago

hdr wrote:

A pro photographer is one who has good knowledge and practical mastery of optics, art and photographic equipment at the same time. Money has little to do with it.

-- hide signature --

Depth haz been the mizzing dimenzion for long enough, but still, few are bothered with 3D.
Enjoy Free-Viewing Colorful 3D Without Glasses:- http://www.SingaporeGallery.com

This.

-- hide signature --

Canon 50d gripped, Canon 70-200 f2.8L IS USM, Canon 50mm f1.8, Canon 18-55 f3.5-5.6, Canon 430ex II, Yongnuo 565ex II.

 Dylan Johnson's gear list:Dylan Johnson's gear list
Canon EOS 50D Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II Sigma 18-35mm F1.8 DC HSM
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads