Mirrorless Spanked at 2014 World Press Photo Comp.

Started Feb 20, 2014 | Discussions
Graham Hill
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Re: Mirrorless Spanked at 2014 World Press Photo Comp.
In reply to jcharding, Feb 21, 2014

jcharding wrote:

Everything I have read from companies like Olympus and Fuji is that while their overall camera divisions may have some financial issues, their mirrorless cameras are strong earners.

You wont read that in any Fujifilm report.  No numbers of any kind support a statement like that.

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stevo23
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Re: Mirrorless Spanked at 2014 World Press Photo Comp.
In reply to Graham Hill, Feb 21, 2014

Graham Hill wrote:

jcharding wrote:

Everything I have read from companies like Olympus and Fuji is that while their overall camera divisions may have some financial issues, their mirrorless cameras are strong earners.

You wont read that in any Fujifilm report. No numbers of any kind support a statement like that.

Have either of you read through their financial reports?

BTW - Graham, this is a really tabloid style post you've started. As if 6000 captive press corps photographers have anything to say about the rest of the world. You might want to think about the conclusion you're making in relation to the sample size. You're basically rumor mongering without any real backup. Instead of sharing a chart, can you give some idea of why this means something?

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Graham Hill
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Re: Mirrorless Spanked at 2014 World Press Photo Comp.
In reply to stevo23, Feb 21, 2014

stevo23 wrote:

Graham Hill wrote:

jcharding wrote:

Everything I have read from companies like Olympus and Fuji is that while their overall camera divisions may have some financial issues, their mirrorless cameras are strong earners.

You wont read that in any Fujifilm report. No numbers of any kind support a statement like that.

Have either of you read through their financial reports?

Yes.

BTW - Graham, this is a really tabloid style post you've started.

Disagree.

As if 6000 captive press corps photographers have anything to say about the rest of the world.

Data is everywhere in the world.

You might want to think about the conclusion you're making in relation to the sample size.

I have.

You're basically rumor mongering without any real backup.

Disagree.

Instead of sharing a chart, can you give some idea of why this means something?

It means that none of the alleged advantages of mirrorless have even slightly trickled down to this specific group of serious photographers.

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NexOffender
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Re: Mirrorless Spanked at 2014 World Press Photo Comp.
In reply to stevo23, Feb 21, 2014

Graham Hill wrote:

jcharding wrote:

Everything I have read from companies like Olympus and Fuji is that while their overall camera divisions may have some financial issues, their mirrorless cameras are strong earners.

You wont read that in any Fujifilm report. No numbers of any kind support a statement like that.

Have either of you read through their financial reports?

BTW - Graham, this is a really tabloid style post you've started. As if 6000 captive press corps photographers have anything to say about the rest of the world. You might want to think about the conclusion you're making in relation to the sample size. You're basically rumor mongering without any real backup. Instead of sharing a chart, can you give some idea of why this means something?

The sample group represented by those fancy pie charts is just the 55 winners, not the 6000 entrants. Mamiya's 2% is just one person, and Sony's 5% is 2 people.

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topstuff
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Pathetic and mad. Welcome to DPR forums
In reply to Graham Hill, Feb 21, 2014

This is a depressing thread.  It shows the worst of DPR forum users IMO.

A press photographer survey of a tiny sample group reveals an almost clean sweep for Canikon DSLR, and some people see this as ammunition to support their prejudices and put down a gear choice that millions of people prefer instead.

I mean, really!?.  Really!?

The survey is meaningless.

And the US is not the only market in the world.  Just because Americans are slow to switch to smaller cameras does not translate to other parts of the world.

This is a thread full of ignorance and prejudice, with a cynical heart.

These are cameras. Inanimate consumer electrical goods that will be junk in a few years time.  It really is not important.

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Ron Poelman
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Click, click, click. Huh ? Saywhat ?? Whatever ! !! (NT)
In reply to Graham Hill, Feb 21, 2014
No text.
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jcharding
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Re: Mirrorless Spanked at 2014 World Press Photo Comp.
In reply to Graham Hill, Feb 21, 2014

Graham Hill wrote:

jcharding wrote:

Everything I have read from companies like Olympus and Fuji is that while their overall camera divisions may have some financial issues, their mirrorless cameras are strong earners.

You wont read that in any Fujifilm report. No numbers of any kind support a statement like that.

No report disputes it either, because no report breaks things down that far.  So you are guessing just as much as me. All we have are the public statements of officials which say that the mirrorless lines, when viewed alone, are financially doing very well.

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Jack Hass
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Re: Really?
In reply to yomasa, Feb 21, 2014

yomasa wrote:

My friend your a fool if you don't think that the dslrs days are not numbered, the only reason they exist now is because the the old film glass, it was only logical path. Mirror-less cameras are made with know hang ups of the old glass. In fact thats why the Sony A7R out resolve the d800 and the pentax 645d it's only a matter of time. And yes I own a pentax 645d, d800, 70d and a7r.

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Jorge Blanco

BAMM !!! 

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May Satan forever guide you.

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brianric
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Re: Mirrorless Spanked at 2014 World Press Photo Comp.
In reply to OpticsEngineer, Feb 21, 2014

OpticsEngineer wrote:

"There was NO stopping digital. That was transparent to anyone but the clueless."

including the executives at Kodak. I know a few of the electrical and optical engineers that used to work there. They were extremely frustrated about the "film mafia" stifling everything innovative.

That's one of the reasons why I admire Steve Jobs. When the iPhone first came out there was a lot of opposition within Apple to putting a music player on the phone, as it would cannibalize sales of the iPod. Jobs answer was if we don't cannibalize our own product someone else will do it for us.

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Bill Robb
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Re: Mirrorless Spanked at 2014 World Press Photo Comp.
In reply to Graham Hill, Feb 22, 2014

Graham Hill wrote:

It means that none of the alleged advantages of mirrorless have even slightly trickled down to this specific group of serious photographers.

And is this supposed to be somehow significant? Really? It's significant that out of 55 photographers world wide, none are using a specific camera type?

Would it be fair to say that film has gone the way of the Dodo because a person could find a sampling of a handful of photographers who don't use film?

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Kawika Nui
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Re: I bet they use laptops and blackberries too. :)
In reply to Lab D, Feb 22, 2014

Lab D wrote:

Laptops, Blackberries and DSLRs. All very useful.

Right.  And you would suggest using what to edit stills and video and to do digital art...an iPad?

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Graham Hill
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Re: Mirrorless Spanked at 2014 World Press Photo Comp.
In reply to Bill Robb, Feb 22, 2014

Bill Robb wrote:

Graham Hill wrote:

It means that none of the alleged advantages of mirrorless have even slightly trickled down to this specific group of serious photographers.

And is this supposed to be somehow significant? Really? It's significant that out of 55 photographers world wide, none are using a specific camera type?

Yes.  Very.

Would it be fair to say that film has gone the way of the Dodo because a person could find a sampling of a handful of photographers who don't use film?

Yes.  Very.

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enemjii
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Re:Like this?
In reply to Graham Hill, Feb 22, 2014
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stevo23
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Re: Mirrorless Spanked at 2014 World Press Photo Comp.
In reply to Graham Hill, Feb 22, 2014

Graham Hill wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Graham Hill wrote:

jcharding wrote:

Everything I have read from companies like Olympus and Fuji is that while their overall camera divisions may have some financial issues, their mirrorless cameras are strong earners.

You wont read that in any Fujifilm report. No numbers of any kind support a statement like that.

Have either of you read through their financial reports?

Yes.

BTW - Graham, this is a really tabloid style post you've started.

Disagree.

A statement like "mirrorless spanked" is quite tabloid. It implies something that is not even remotely relevant and creates an impression of an offering that is being refused.

As if 6000 captive press corps photographers have anything to say about the rest of the world.

Data is everywhere in the world.

Where else? It sounds so prolific, it must be easy to find.

You might want to think about the conclusion you're making in relation to the sample size.

I have.

Care to explain how 6000 pre-disposed and pre-biased photojournalists represent the masses? When did they ever? If you're showing things like Leica S, Mamiya 7, D4, D3 etc., this isn't the masses. Nor could it be.

You're basically rumor mongering without any real backup.

Disagree.

So where's the back up other than a pre-biased, tiny sample?

Instead of sharing a chart, can you give some idea of why this means something?

It means that none of the alleged advantages of mirrorless have even slightly trickled down to this specific group of serious photographers.

In this digital world, I think a lot of things trickle up. The lower end stuff gets all the beatings by consumers and amateurs before it's pushed upward.

And really, Canon and Nikon are stuck - they can't go mirrorless without risking installed base. I'd also be curious why you think mirrorless has ever been aimed at that market. I mean, we all know it's not, so why would it have much representation at this competition?

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stevo23
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Re: Mirrorless Spanked at 2014 World Press Photo Comp.
In reply to NexOffender, Feb 22, 2014

NexOffender wrote:

Graham Hill wrote:

jcharding wrote:

Everything I have read from companies like Olympus and Fuji is that while their overall camera divisions may have some financial issues, their mirrorless cameras are strong earners.

You wont read that in any Fujifilm report. No numbers of any kind support a statement like that.

Have either of you read through their financial reports?

BTW - Graham, this is a really tabloid style post you've started. As if 6000 captive press corps photographers have anything to say about the rest of the world. You might want to think about the conclusion you're making in relation to the sample size. You're basically rumor mongering without any real backup. Instead of sharing a chart, can you give some idea of why this means something?

The sample group represented by those fancy pie charts is just the 55 winners, not the 6000 entrants. Mamiya's 2% is just one person, and Sony's 5% is 2 people.

Do you draw any further conclusions? That's a good point. To me, it means the pie chart and OP's statement is even more irrelevant.

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stevo23
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Re: Mirrorless Spanked at 2014 World Press Photo Comp.
In reply to enemjii, Feb 22, 2014

enemjii wrote:

Graham Hill wrote:

Jim Salvas wrote:

I suspect a similar chart from 2002 would have had a 2% slice for digital cameras and there would be some fool loudly proclaiming that "digital got spanked."

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Jim Salvas

Your analogy fails completely.

Digital had a steady level of growth over film once it became affordable. There was NO stopping digital. That was transparent to anyone but the clueless.

So there's no stopping mirrorless - only clueless ones don't realize it. When you can make a professional grade camera that breaks down into a mere 10 components (A7), you have a compelling economic reason to go this way.

Mirrorless has sputtered, coughed, wheezed, and stalled after its early adoption. By any metric available mirrorless is in decline faster than the SLR market. By ANY metric available, mirrorless is losing their manufacturers tens of millions of dollars every quarter. We are all STILL waiting for a single, solitary mirrorless maker to post $1 in profit. Just a single $1.

Year after year after year after year, mirrorless cameras lose millions upon millions of dollars.

Year after year? Film took 20 to finally wind down. Mirrorless is just getting started.

You have me convinced. Time to buy stocks in mirror companies.

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stevo23
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55 users doesn't say much about anything
In reply to Graham Hill, Feb 22, 2014

55 users? Where are the rest of the 6000 entrants? What were they using? Brownies?

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Stuart001
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Re: Mirrorless Spanked at 2014 World Press Photo Comp.
In reply to enemjii, Feb 22, 2014

enemjii wrote:

Like this one?

... and he'll still be taking photos with that (or his grandchildren will) years after all of the current DSLRs and mirrorless cameras are landfill.

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Chris Malcolm
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Re: Mirrorless Spanked at 2014 World Press Photo Comp.
In reply to Graham Hill, Feb 22, 2014

The thing about surveys is they measure the past. They look backwards. Looking backwards can often be a good way of predicting the future. For example, you can walk backwards along a straight smooth or gently curving path and stay on it. But it's a very silly way of predicting the future when there's new things happening.

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Chris Malcolm

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HetFotoAtelier
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It's all fraude! Canon is headsponsor!
In reply to stevo23, Feb 22, 2014

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