D600 / D610 - A camera for the masses

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
ravduc
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Re: The quintessential "Instigator"
In reply to 1w12q312qw1, 7 months ago

Can't say I really care. I just wonder, based on what would they delete such comments.

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Ray Sachs
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Re: D600 / D610 - A camera for the masses
In reply to dantastical, 7 months ago

dantastical wrote:

I just want to say I have a D600 and love it, genuinely wouldnt swap it for any other Nikon, except the D3x possibly as I love the colours. I think you either buy a camera as a tool to try and take great photographs, or to compensate for the fact that you cant take great photographs, and I think some prominent posters are sadly in the latter category, and the 'status' you get from owning a particular camera. For me, status comes from the images you produce, and if anything making great images with a 'cheap' camera is even better!

Be careful with that logic. I've seen some amazing images done with iPhones. Not technically brilliant pixel peepable photographs but fantastic images that I'd be more than happy to have on my wall. And that makes any of us with larger sensor cameras look like we must be compensating for some pretty major insecurities. Too many m43 shooters feel this way about anyone who chooses a larger sensor. I shoot m43 too, but I don't feel that way.

Just choose the camera(s) that work for you. I'm currently leaning toward the D4 but might well go back to Fuji with the XT1. I wouldn't look down my nose at anyone that shoots with anything, whether it's a higher or lower level camera than the ones I have. There are good image makers and crummy image makers and everything in between and the cameras are nothing more than tools. And don't say anything more about the shooter than what tool he or she finds most useful for whatever combination of reasons...

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T O Shooter
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Re: The quintessential "Instigator"
In reply to ravduc, 7 months ago

ravduc wrote:

The moderators never sent me anything. As for this ongoing discussion in this thread, I have preferred not to take sides mainly because none of it is positive. Taking sides seems to be the way to go if you don't want you're comments to be deleted.

There are no "sides" in this thread, except for a few people misunderstanding my definition of "masses"  Robert has dropped in a time or two, but that's just Robert being Robert   You have to accept Robert for who he is and love him like that!!!  

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rhlpetrus
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Re: Well,
In reply to T O Shooter, 7 months ago

T O Shooter wrote:

sshoihet wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

rhlpetrus wrote:

People should take a breath and maybe a few pictures. All these cameras are awesome compared to anything available just a few years ago.

But, "for the masses"? Hardly.

You're wrong. Within Nikon's crop of full frame bodies, the D600 / D610 is the one that will have the widest appeal to most people. Factoring in size, price, sensor, AF, DR, IQ What other Nikon current FF do you think has a wider appeal?? Some of you like to argue for the sake of arguing.

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Photography - I do it for passion, not for a buck! It's just better that way.

The D610 may be a popular choice for many people getting into FX, but at the price point of $2K+ it can hardly be called "masses" as that spot would be taken by one of the lower tier DX cameras. Most people do not need FX at all, even the D7100 is more than most of the "masses" need. To most people, $800 is still a lot of money to spend on a camera.

Another fellow disagreeing for disagreeing sake. I clarified it above. The masses is "the populace" or a "great body of people" I've clarified twice that I meant within the Nikon full frame buying group of people. You know, as opposed to the bingo going, welfare type with a case of beer under their arm and a cigarette hanging out of the right corner of their mouth. Robert might be argumentative but you take it to the stupid side of arguing as well.

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Photography - I do it for passion, not for a buck! It's just better that way.

Well, why do you bother so much about that, agreeing, disagreeing, and so on? Masses in my dictionary should mean a very large group of people interested in photography. How many D600 or 6D, etc have been sold per year, compared, say, to D3200, D5100, 600D, etc? I just looked at the Amazon listings of bestsellers, all digital cameras.

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Digital-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/281052/ref=zg_bs_nav_e_2_502394#1

6D is 38th, quite good actually, but well behind basic Canons and Nikons dslrs. 5D3 is 64th, D600 or D610 are not among top 100. So, the masses seem to be ignoring the D600 or D610. Is this relevant? No, it's not, you used the term, I just questioned that use, no big deal and not worth a debate IMO.

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rhlpetrus
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Re: What part of the 8% are the masses?
In reply to golf1982, 7 months ago

golf1982 wrote:

JimPearce wrote:

No slight to the D610, but Nikon's "FX revolution" is a failure in the marketplace.

no you are completely incorect

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Jim

Find the Nikon FX among top 100 digital cameras at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Digital-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/281052/ref=zg_bs_nav_e_2_502394#1

Don't forget to check the Canons as well. It doesn't look good for Nikon. And not only in terms of FX.

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Martin Datzinger
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Re: I would have bought it if.....
In reply to SushiEater, 7 months ago

Thank god it doesn't have mechanically unstable (bending pins) CF cards but dual SD cards instead, which are fast enough and can be slotted into my MacBook Pro without any accessory piece.

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rhlpetrus
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Even worse
In reply to rhlpetrus, 7 months ago

D610 is selling below the D800 at Amazon, even below the ... D90!

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Digital-SLR-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/3017941/ref=zg_bs_nav_e_3_281052

Even in the rarified FF market it's not selling very well.

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MattiH
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Re: D600 / D610 - A camera for the masses
In reply to T O Shooter, 7 months ago

Well wasn't this a pointless thread. Bunch of people who argue about couple of consumer cameras that are in reach of almost everyone's budget.
Of cameras that share same af - system, image quality, view finder... And are made by the same company!

I'd understand, if this argument was about Leica M monochrome vs D600... That would have at least some sort of reason. Some.

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golf1982
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Re: What part of the 8% are the masses?
In reply to rhlpetrus, 7 months ago

rhlpetrus wrote:

golf1982 wrote:

JimPearce wrote:

No slight to the D610, but Nikon's "FX revolution" is a failure in the marketplace.

no you are completely incorect

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Jim

Find the Nikon FX among top 100 digital cameras at Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Digital-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/281052/ref=zg_bs_nav_e_2_502394#1

Don't forget to check the Canons as well. It doesn't look good for Nikon. And not only in terms of FX.

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Amazon stats tell you very little about any products sales. In isolation they are next to useless. i suggest you take a look at actual sales figures and market share.

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Humours Dip
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Re: D600 / D610 - A camera for the masses
In reply to Shotcents, 7 months ago

Shotcents wrote:

T O Shooter wrote:

Can't get into replying to the troll.

Thing is a D610 is a camera for the masses. Same as the VW bug was in it's day, a 6 cyl Mustang as opposed to a V8, a 600cc snowmobile.

They are not meant to be the best of anything. Just an affordable option for those that can't / won't spend the money on the top tier ones, or don't need the feature set of them. Same goes for household appliances, furniture, computers, clothing, and just about anything else you can buy.

Affordable, reasonable amount of features, never top of the line. Nothing wrong with that. And a perfect camera for those whose requirements match the features offered. High enough mp for most, good DR, light weight, U1 and U2 modes, reasonable AF.

Hardly required a thread insulting those that bought it.

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Photography - I do it for passion, not for a buck! It's just better that way.

I, and many others, are not interested in D600 / D610, VW bugs or solid-rear axle pony car.

We want better.

The D800 is the best Nikon hi-res DSLR currently available.

The D4 is the best Nikon low light and action DSLR currently available.

The Df is the best and smallest/lightest/quietest low light DSLR currently available.

The D610 is not the best at anything, but it's cheap.

NOTHING above is subjective. 100% factual. Adding something subjective, the D610 is also the cheapest feeling DSLR. The D800 is somewhat better while the Df and D4 are the best. The Df clearly has the best quality control with virtually zero issues reported. D4 is right behind it. The D6XX and D800 have been horrible for QC as we all know.

D610 is plain vanilla. Some folks like that. They want to be part of the masses.

And some want better and skip the D610.

Robert

Childish ignorant rubbish. Clearly you care nothing for photography.

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T O Shooter
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Re: D600 / D610 - A camera for the masses
In reply to MattiH, 7 months ago

MattiH wrote:

Well wasn't this a pointless thread. Bunch of people who argue about couple of consumer cameras that are in reach of almost everyone's budget.
Of cameras that share same af - system, image quality, view finder... And are made by the same company!

I'd understand, if this argument was about Leica M monochrome vs D600... That would have at least some sort of reason. Some.

Missing your point here. There was no comparing the D600/D610 to anything else?  At 28 post for you you're starting off good. 

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T O Shooter
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Re: Well,
In reply to rhlpetrus, 7 months ago

rhlpetrus wrote:

Masses in my dictionary should mean a very large group of people interested in photography.

Renato.

Feel free to start you're own thread with your parameters. I started this one with parimeters that I clarified as being for full frame Nikon purchasers. So within Nikon's current lineup of full frame bodies, I figured the D600 / D610 would be the one that appealed to the broadest spectrum. So what if I'm wrong. But do tell me which one of D3X, D4, Df, D800/e you feel has the broadest appeal to the most purchasers?? Go ahead.  Or would you still prefer to argue over the "definition"?.

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Maji
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Re: D600 / D610 - A camera for the masses
In reply to T O Shooter, 7 months ago

Different strokes for different folks. Thank you to Nikon for providing us with the options. Now Nikon, be a dear and release the following:

1a. . A 24 MPx DX sensor in a D800 body (with Expeed 4 and 7-8 fps) and call it D400 OR

1b. A 24 MPx DX sensor in a D7100 body but with double the buffer size and call it D7200.

2. A 24 MPx FX sensor in a D800 body (with Expeed  4 and 7-8 fps) and call it D800h (a true D700 successor).

3. A 54 MPx FX sensor in a D4 body and call it D4X.

That way, we will have more to argue about instead of taking photographs

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MattiH
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Re: D600 / D610 - A camera for the masses
In reply to T O Shooter, 7 months ago

I believe that the cameras in question are DF and D600 /610?

Both models are made for the masses. Neither of those cameras are anything special. Average, basic dslr:s. Capable of taking beautiful pictures or shitty ones.

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Humours Dip
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Re: D600 / D610 - A camera for the masses
In reply to MattiH, 7 months ago

MattiH wrote:

I believe that the cameras in question are DF and D600 /610?

Both models are made for the masses. Neither of those cameras are anything special. Average, basic dslr:s.

No. They both have incredible dynamic range and excellent resolution. Superb high ISO. 100% viewfinder. Mirror lock up. Decent build. 20 years ago I would not have believed what these can do. They are not basic.

You should consider what they can do, not use as the basis for a my camera is better than your camera argument.

Capable of taking beautiful pictures or shitty ones.

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sshoihet
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Re: Even worse
In reply to rhlpetrus, 7 months ago

rhlpetrus wrote:

D610 is selling below the D800 at Amazon, even below the ... D90!

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Digital-SLR-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/3017941/ref=zg_bs_nav_e_3_281052

Even in the rarified FF market it's not selling very well.

According to this http://photorumors.com/2013/12/30/best-selling-cameras-in-japan-for-2013-and-the-future-of-the-industry-according-to-one-financial-analyst/  which may or may not represent the sales outside of Japan, the D800 and D600 sales numbers are almost the same and together, they total the percentage sales of the D7100 which for most people, is still quite expensive.  I really like the D600 but I think it's at a price point where if it doesn't meet some specific requirements you have, you can probably find the extra money for a D800 if that what you want.  Considering a D800 might be the last camera a lot of people buy for a several years, the extra $1000 is not that big a deal and it will likely have a better resale value vs the D600 as well which is currently the case with the D700.

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rhlpetrus
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D700'still Nikon most used by PJs/documentary photogs
In reply to sshoihet, 7 months ago

sshoihet wrote:

rhlpetrus wrote:

D610 is selling below the D800 at Amazon, even below the ... D90!

http://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Electronics-Digital-SLR-Cameras/zgbs/electronics/3017941/ref=zg_bs_nav_e_3_281052

Even in the rarified FF market it's not selling very well.

According to this http://photorumors.com/2013/12/30/best-selling-cameras-in-japan-for-2013-and-the-future-of-the-industry-according-to-one-financial-analyst/ which may or may not represent the sales outside of Japan, the D800 and D600 sales numbers are almost the same and together, they total the percentage sales of the D7100 which for most people, is still quite expensive. I really like the D600 but I think it's at a price point where if it doesn't meet some specific requirements you have, you can probably find the extra money for a D800 if that what you want. Considering a D800 might be the last camera a lot of people buy for a several years, the extra $1000 is not that big a deal and it will likely have a better resale value vs the D600 as well which is currently the case with the D700.

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53159277

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T O Shooter
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Re: D600 / D610 - A camera for the masses
In reply to MattiH, 7 months ago

MattiH wrote:

I believe that the cameras in question are DF and D600 /610?

Both models are made for the masses. Neither of those cameras are anything special. Average, basic dslr:s. Capable of taking beautiful pictures or shitty ones.

Read the Re: at the top of this post and at the top of this thread. Nothing about the Df. You're mixed up in the locked down thread by Robert ( Shotcents ) He's a Df man and thrashed the D600 / D610 in that locked down post.

The Df is actually a niche body. You can debate that all you want. You'd just be wrong at the end.  While I'll probably never own a Df, I doubt if that sensor falls under "neither of those camera are anything special"  And I shoot with a D4 and 800e. Either of those meet your "special" criteria??

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rhlpetrus
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Re: Well,
In reply to T O Shooter, 7 months ago

T O Shooter wrote:

rhlpetrus wrote:

Masses in my dictionary should mean a very large group of people interested in photography.

Renato.

Feel free to start you're own thread with your parameters. I started this one with parimeters that I clarified as being for full frame Nikon purchasers. So within Nikon's current lineup of full frame bodies, I figured the D600 / D610 would be the one that appealed to the broadest spectrum. So what if I'm wrong. But do tell me which one of D3X, D4, Df, D800/e you feel has the broadest appeal to the most purchasers?? Go ahead. Or would you still prefer to argue over the "definition"?.

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Photography - I do it for passion, not for a buck! It's just better that way.

D610 is selling below D800, according to Amazon. I'm not in the business of defining each camera's appeal or market, I just checked the figures from one relevant source. Nikon actually is looking pretty badvoverall in the ILC market, if Amazon is representative of overall sales, especially re FF market.nIt seems, from the split of cameras used by pj/documentary photogs that entered the World Press competition in 2013 (over 90 k entries), Nikon is doing very poorly, especially the latter models, like D800 and D4. D700 is still the Nikon most used by those people. Not rwlated to your post, but it indicates Nikon must rethink their strategies.

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T O Shooter
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Re: D600 / D610 - A camera for the masses
In reply to Maji, 7 months ago

Maji wrote:

Different strokes for different folks. Thank you to Nikon for providing us with the options. Now Nikon, be a dear and release the following:

1a. . A 24 MPx DX sensor in a D800 body (with Expeed 4 and 7-8 fps) and call it D400 OR

1b. A 24 MPx DX sensor in a D7100 body but with double the buffer size and call it D7200.

2. A 24 MPx FX sensor in a D800 body (with Expeed 4 and 7-8 fps) and call it D800h (a true D700 successor).

3. A 54 MPx FX sensor in a D4 body and call it D4X.

That way, we will have more to argue about instead of taking photographs

You're certainly a dreamer with that wish list.  Nothing wrong with that. I only get to take photographs on the weekends, so I squeeze in a bit of arguing with idiots during the week. 

And when I scroll down through the topics and see stuff such as Sony A7 vs D610 I know I have no interest in it, so I don't wander in all insulting like and say I don't like this thread, you're comparing the wrong cameras, and so on and so on.  Not referring to you here, but a lot of the fellows just want to run up their post count to "guru" or whatever, so they've got to comment on something.

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