FE 16-35mm f4 UW zoom

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
Donny out of Element here
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FE 16-35mm f4 UW zoom
9 months ago

is rumored to be announced in a month or so. I was wondering if I can start using FE lenses on APS-C body (A6000), so that in future (when I go FF) I will have FF lenses ready to go.

I was wondering to use that 16-35 f4 as my main zoom actually, since it will be 24-50mm (in APS-C) on my A6000 - which is the focal range I use most often (mostly 24-35mm in APS-C).

So my question is how big this zoom may be or how small? I was hoping for OSS, but it won't have it probably? Do I need it on that FL anyway? I also hope this time Zeiss will make sharp zoom across the frame, not like FE24-70, where 24-28 range is soft on edges and corners.

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Richt2000
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Re: FE 16-35mm f4 UW zoom
In reply to Donny out of Element here, 9 months ago

Donny out of Element here wrote:

is rumored to be announced in a month or so. I was wondering if I can start using FE lenses on APS-C body (A6000), so that in future (when I go FF) I will have FF lenses ready to go.

I was wondering to use that 16-35 f4 as my main zoom actually, since it will be 24-70mm (in APS-C) on my A6000 - which is the focal range I use most often (mostly 24-35mm in APS-C).

So my question is how big this zoom may be or how small? I was hoping for OSS, but it won't have it probably? Do I need it on that FL anyway? I also hope this time Zeiss will make sharp zoom across the frame, not like 24-70, where 24-28 range is soft on edges and corners.

16-35 in FF would have an equivalent Field of view of 24-52.5, not 70mm
An F4 of this nature will be roughly the same size as Canon's 17-40 L or Nikon's 18-35G 3.5-4.5

Unless they can perform some magic  or compromise on IQ

But yes, you are right, hopefully it will become a high quality mid-range zoom for APS nex cameras too

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123Mike
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Re: FE 16-35mm f4 UW zoom
In reply to Donny out of Element here, 9 months ago

Donny out of Element here wrote:

is rumored to be announced in a month or so. I was wondering if I can start using FE lenses on APS-C body (A6000), so that in future (when I go FF) I will have FF lenses ready to go.

I was wondering to use that 16-35 f4 as my main zoom actually, since it will be 24-70mm (in APS-C) on my A6000 - which is the focal range I use most often (mostly 24-35mm in APS-C).

I don't that this translation is correct. I have multiple full frame lenses, Minoltas, that I'm using on my A57 APS-C "crop" camera. The way I see it, is that full frame gives you a rim around an APS-C shot. But a full frame lens at 28mm, say, is going to provide the same result as a 28mm from the crop kit lens. I don't know about this new lens that's coming up, but if it's a full frame 16-35 that's a pretty darn wide angle lens on a FF camera. But it'd only be half a kit on a crop camera. That 35 remains 35, and it does not magically double or anything else like that.

However though. It might be a *really* sharp lens, which means, lots of cropping power! And on a 24mp sensor like the A6000, it means being able stretch things quite a bit.

So my question is how big this zoom may be or how small? I was hoping for OSS, but it won't have it probably? Do I need it on that FL anyway? I also hope this time Zeiss will make sharp zoom across the frame, not like 24-70, where 24-28 range is soft on edges and corners.

As for OSS... I'm starting to think it's a little bit overrated. I use bursting a lot to achieve better shots. So, burst a lot. The A6000 does 11 fps bursting. That's very high. Combine that with software that lets you quickly lift out the sharp ones and discard the blurry ones, and bursting becomes your friend. OSS might screw up at time too, so, you'll reduce that. Although mind you, the in lens OSS might be a *lot* better than the IBIS of the SLTs which is where I'm coming from.

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Donny out of Element here
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Re: What kind of SW do you use?
In reply to 123Mike, 9 months ago

for automatically selecting sharpest pics from series of bursts? Can it then automatically delete not sharp ones? Is that something you would run before any PP SW like LR? Thanks.

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Donny out of Element here
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Re: Thanks. I corrected it.
In reply to Richt2000, 9 months ago

of course 24-50 not 24-70.

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Richt2000
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OSS
In reply to 123Mike, 9 months ago

The OSS in the 24-70 is AMAZING.
Far better than Canon's IS on the 24-105 L, i'd dare a guess to stay one or two stops better

With the sony I am getting tack sharp
Images hand held at 50mm and 1/10s

Well, the centre anyway, the corner softness is no fault of the OSS

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Donny out of Element here
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Re: FE 16-35mm f4 UW zoom
In reply to Richt2000, 9 months ago

Richt2000 wrote:

Donny out of Element here wrote:

is rumored to be announced in a month or so. I was wondering if I can start using FE lenses on APS-C body (A6000), so that in future (when I go FF) I will have FF lenses ready to go.

I was wondering to use that 16-35 f4 as my main zoom actually, since it will be 24-70mm (in APS-C) on my A6000 - which is the focal range I use most often (mostly 24-35mm in APS-C).

So my question is how big this zoom may be or how small? I was hoping for OSS, but it won't have it probably? Do I need it on that FL anyway? I also hope this time Zeiss will make sharp zoom across the frame, not like 24-70, where 24-28 range is soft on edges and corners.

16-35 in FF would have an equivalent Field of view of 24-52.5, not 70mm
An F4 of this nature will be roughly the same size as Canon's 17-40 L or Nikon's 18-35G 3.5-4.5

Unless they can perform some magic or compromise on IQ

But yes, you are right, hopefully it will become a high quality mid-range zoom for APS nex cameras too

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Oh-oh. I was hoping it would be smaller Those lenses are kinda huge for A7/R IMHO.

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seachicken2000
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Re: FE 16-35mm f4 UW zoom
In reply to Richt2000, 9 months ago

Richt2000 wrote:

16-35 in FF would have an equivalent Field of view of 24-52.5, not 70mm

I'd never thought of it like that... this would be an amazingly useful lens for me on an A7r.

In APS-C crop mode, it's a 24-52.5mm f/4 standard zoom, and since it's a FF lens it should be consistently sharp across the frame. 15.5 M pixels will do just fine for a travel zoom, which is what it would be for me.

Flip the camera into full frame mode, and it's an ultrawide zoom lens, and here I'd want to use the full resolution of the sensor.

Add the 55mm f/1.8 (a world-class fast standard prime used FF, and a capable short portrait prime when used APS-C) and all my regular focal lengths are there, in just 2 lenses!

I am not sure it needs to be enormous due to the short flange distance.

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LBJ2
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Re: FE 16-35mm f4 UW zoom
In reply to Donny out of Element here, 9 months ago

Donny: For what's its worth, I am using APS-C and FE lenses interchangeably on both my Nex 6 and A7r w/ no real issues so far and in some cases even a surprise--like being able to use the SEL 10-18 in Full Frame mode on the A7r This lens is really wide on the A7r.  I "think" the same E-mount interchangeability for the A6000 is the plan.

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Richt2000
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10-18mm e mount
In reply to seachicken2000, 9 months ago

seachicken2000 wrote:

I'd never thought of it like that... this would be an amazingly useful lens for me on an A7r.

In APS-C crop mode, it's a 24-52.5mm f/4 standard zoom, and since it's a FF lens it should be consistently sharp across the frame. 15.5 M pixels will do just fine for a travel zoom, which is what it would be for me.

Flip the camera into full frame mode, and it's an ultrawide zoom lens, and here I'd want to use the full resolution of the sensor.

You may as well shoot at 36mp all the time and then just crop afterwards to give you more choice later, although as a compositional tool, this picture taking method works - just like digital zoom on compact cameras.

However, a real advantage of the way you are thinking is how I am using the e mount 10-18mm at the moment.

I have the Nikon G 18-35 with Novoflex for Tripod work, FF 36mp

I have the 10-18 with OSS for light, OSS equiped walkaround for 15-27mm at 15mp when I don't need the resolution. Save me cropping off the vingetting back at the ranch.  When I pick up the A6000, I'll keep the 10-18 on the A6000 for 24mp walkaround and the 24-70 on the A7r.

However....

the 10-18 is a very usable 13-16mm Ultra Wide angle at 36mp full frame with very good IQ at 14mm.

If you want to be really perfectionist about IQ, you can always shoot in FF mode and crop the extreme corners off to end up with a 28-30mp image, the lens at 14mm will give you a Field of view of 15-16mm and be pretty much on par with Canon's 16-35ii in the corners

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123Mike
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Re: What kind of SW do you use?
In reply to Donny out of Element here, 9 months ago

Donny out of Element here wrote:

for automatically selecting sharpest pics from series of bursts? Can it then automatically delete not sharp ones? Is that something you would run before any PP SW like LR? Thanks.

I used to develop image processing software. I can envision writing an algorithm that compares a shot with a unsharpened shot of itself, and perhaps that way measure sharpness. Or else I'll borrow a sharpness algorithm off the net somewhere. My plan has been for a while now, to create a slideshow / organizing software so this would be one of its features.

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123Mike
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Re: OSS
In reply to Richt2000, 9 months ago

Richt2000 wrote:

The OSS in the 24-70 is AMAZING.
Far better than Canon's IS on the 24-105 L, i'd dare a guess to stay one or two stops better

I'll have to look for that, sounds exciting.

With the sony I am getting tack sharp
Images hand held at 50mm and 1/10s

How often though? Can't be consistent can it? That'd be quite an achievement!

Well, the centre anyway, the corner softness is no fault of the OSS

I'm picky with lenses. This why I'm avoiding the 16-50 and picking the older 18-55 instead.

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zither
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Re: FE 16-35mm f4 UW zoom
In reply to Donny out of Element here, 9 months ago

I have very high expectation of this UWA lens. It will be the decision factor that I'm staying with my Sony A7 or not. I don't mind if it's a bit pricey, say like $1500, but I DO mind the size and IQ. I expect the size to be no larger than FE 24-70 and IQ at least outperform the canon 17-40L. IMO the FE 24-70 is a bit disappointing based on all reviews I've seen so far.

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S3ZAi
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Re: FE 16-35mm f4 UW zoom
In reply to zither, 9 months ago

I'm not so sure, but I'd rather have a zoom with less reach that's a bit faster and have better IQ. Wouldn't something like 16-28 F3.5 or perhaps even F3 give better results and be easier to design? I think most people would buy this lens for the WA side and if you want to shoot at 35mm, the also announced 35mm 1.4 fast prime would be a far better choice anyway. I even wouldn't mind a 16-24mm lens if it would have some speed, like 2.8, then it would be usable for handheld indoor shots of churches or train stations and such. I think F4 is just way too slow,

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Re: FE 16-35mm f4 UW zoom
In reply to 123Mike, 9 months ago

123Mike wrote:

As for OSS... I'm starting to think it's a little bit overrated. I use bursting a lot to achieve better shots. So, burst a lot. The A6000 does 11 fps bursting. That's very high. Combine that with software that lets you quickly lift out the sharp ones and discard the blurry ones, and bursting becomes your friend. OSS might screw up at time too, so, you'll reduce that. Although mind you, the in lens OSS might be a *lot* better than the IBIS of the SLTs which is where I'm coming from.

For some of us, OSS is a necessity. One thing I miss from my old E-M5 is the IBIS. I personally need as much stability as possible due to having idiopathic familial tremors, one reason that I still use the 28-70mm kit lens. I hope the 24-70mm Zeiss is a bit better, but the OSS is a big plus for me.

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seachicken2000
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Re: 10-18mm e mount
In reply to Richt2000, 9 months ago

Richt2000 wrote:

seachicken2000 wrote:

I'd never thought of it like that... this would be an amazingly useful lens for me on an A7r.

In APS-C crop mode, it's a 24-52.5mm f/4 standard zoom, and since it's a FF lens it should be consistently sharp across the frame. 15.5 M pixels will do just fine for a travel zoom, which is what it would be for me.

Flip the camera into full frame mode, and it's an ultrawide zoom lens, and here I'd want to use the full resolution of the sensor.

You may as well shoot at 36mp all the time and then just crop afterwards to give you more choice later, although as a compositional tool, this picture taking method works - just like digital zoom on compact cameras.

Yes, I really wish Sony (or an app developer) would implement a software zoom for the A7r that would work with RAW, just to aid composition. The camera has pixels to spare, and being able to zoom something like the 55mm f/1.8 continuously from standard to short portrait focal lengths, would be great.

What you'd effectively have (in FF terms) is a 55-85mm f/1.8-2.8 zoom lens with prime lens sharpness and rendering.

I'd settle for cropped RAWs (like we have in APS-C crop mode now), or better still the full resolution RAW (perhaps with the crop embedded in the metadata), or ideally both.

the 10-18 is a very usable 13-16mm Ultra Wide angle at 36mp full frame with very good IQ at 14mm.

If you want to be really perfectionist about IQ, you can always shoot in FF mode and crop the extreme corners off to end up with a 28-30mp image, the lens at 14mm will give you a Field of view of 15-16mm and be pretty much on par with Canon's 16-35ii in the corners

This is also very interesting as I own the 10-18mm, and use it a lot. I know it can cover the full frame quite well, but I wouldn't have expected much in the way of corner sharpness. Looking forward to giving it a go!

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: FE 16-35mm f4 UW zoom
In reply to Donny out of Element here, 9 months ago

Richt2000 wrote:

Donny out of Element here wrote:

is rumored to be announced in a month or so. I was wondering if I can start using FE lenses on APS-C body (A6000), so that in future (when I go FF) I will have FF lenses ready to go.

I was wondering to use that 16-35 f4 as my main zoom actually, since it will be 24-70mm (in APS-C) on my A6000 - which is the focal range I use most often (mostly 24-35mm in APS-C).

So my question is how big this zoom may be or how small? I was hoping for OSS, but it won't have it probably? Do I need it on that FL anyway? I also hope this time Zeiss will make sharp zoom across the frame, not like 24-70, where 24-28 range is soft on edges and corners.

16-35 in FF would have an equivalent Field of view of 24-52.5, not 70mm
An F4 of this nature will be roughly the same size as Canon's 17-40 L or Nikon's 18-35G 3.5-4.5

Unless they can perform some magic or compromise on IQ

But yes, you are right, hopefully it will become a high quality mid-range zoom for APS nex cameras too

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Oh-oh. I was hoping it would be smaller Those lenses are kinda huge for A7/R IMHO.

Sony did a good job on 10-18/4 for APSc. The FE UW zoom will be larger but shouldn't be anywhere close to the DSLR lenses (including Sony's own 16-35/2.8 SSM Zeiss on A-mount). It will be over a grand though (in line with FE24-70 if not FE70-200).

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123Mike
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Re: FE 16-35mm f4 UW zoom
In reply to rponiarski, 9 months ago

rponiarski wrote:

123Mike wrote:

As for OSS... I'm starting to think it's a little bit overrated. I use bursting a lot to achieve better shots. So, burst a lot. The A6000 does 11 fps bursting. That's very high. Combine that with software that lets you quickly lift out the sharp ones and discard the blurry ones, and bursting becomes your friend. OSS might screw up at time too, so, you'll reduce that. Although mind you, the in lens OSS might be a *lot* better than the IBIS of the SLTs which is where I'm coming from.

For some of us, OSS is a necessity. One thing I miss from my old E-M5 is the IBIS. I personally need as much stability as possible due to having idiopathic familial tremors, one reason that I still use the 28-70mm kit lens. I hope the 24-70mm Zeiss is a bit better, but the OSS is a big plus for me.

That's in-lens OSS, which is more of a sure thing. IBIS "super steady shot" or whatever the heck it's called, I found always kind of iffy. It's like it's there, but like it's not there also. I kind of maybe is doing something perhaps, kind of thing...

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abortabort
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Re: FE 16-35mm f4 UW zoom
In reply to Richt2000, 9 months ago

Richt2000 wrote:

16-35 in FF would have an equivalent Field of view of 24-52.5, not 70mm
An F4 of this nature will be roughly the same size as Canon's 17-40 L or Nikon's 18-35G 3.5-4.5

Unless they can perform some magic or compromise on IQ

But yes, you are right, hopefully it will become a high quality mid-range zoom for APS nex cameras too

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Nah it will be smaller than the 17-40mm. Look at the 24-70mm OSS FE vs Canon 24-70mm f4 IS L as a guide to the size difference.

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abortabort
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Re: OSS
In reply to 123Mike, 9 months ago

123Mike wrote:

With the sony I am getting tack sharp
Images hand held at 50mm and 1/10s

How often though? Can't be consistent can it? That'd be quite an achievement!

Sure why not? I can quite easily hand hold the RX10 @ 200mm equiv down to 0.8 seconds. That's not 1/8th, but 0.8sec @ 200mm - For those playing at home that's 8 stops of stabilisation! Ok not every shot, but still comfortably good averages. 1/10th is a cakewalk with the RX10 at any FL, so this 'shouldn't' be a problem with a short range zoom like the 24-70 OSS.

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