"But at low ISO nothing can beat this camera." - CEO SIGMA

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D Cox
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Re: "But at low ISO nothing can beat this camera." - CEO SIGMA
In reply to fishywisht, 6 months ago

fishywisht wrote:

It has a funny shape, a bit like a student's technical design project. But does the world need another compact camera that takes unusually detailed pictures of Barbados beach? I have some shots with 110 film that came out quite well, if you're interested.

Such shots are exceedingly rare, so look after them carefully.

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D Cox
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Re: "But at low ISO nothing can beat this camera." - CEO SIGMA
In reply to TRIODEROB, 6 months ago

TRIODEROB wrote:

the owner of Sigma has stated that the new "Quattro" camera coming out in approx summertime will be unbeatable in sunny conditions.

comments ???

The new Sony 54 Megapixel sensor for medium format may beat the Quattro.

I don't think the Sigma cameras will be usable only in sunny conditions, but they will be at their best at lower ISO settings. ISO 100 or 200 can be used in any light with care. (High Speed Ektachrome film for indoor light was ISO 150 approx.)

The current "Merrill" sensors can give outstanding results under studio lighting.

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D Cox
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Re: "But at low ISO nothing can beat this camera." - CEO SIGMA
In reply to Jack Hass, 6 months ago

Jack Hass wrote:

F2.8 and fixed lens is a deal breaker. Not fast enough for the 45/75mm versions, and im not buying multiple cameras for each application. I have one camera with different lenses that can do everything, ill keep it that way.

Sigma do make a DSLR with changeable lenses too. They will probably update it with the new sensor and battery next year.

Their argument for using fixed lenses is that each lens can be precisely matched to and aligned with the sensor.

Nobody has mentioned what is in my opinion the big defect of these new cameras, which is that the LCD screen doesn't tilt. That means you can't use the camera at waist level, which is the best position for holding a camera steady and avoiding shake.

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D Cox
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Re: "But at low ISO nothing can beat this camera." - CEO SIGMA
In reply to fishywisht, 6 months ago

fishywisht wrote:

TRIODEROB wrote:

the folks making comments have an understanding of digital cameras which is extremely primitive compared to this person and would do well to keep the mouth shut and the eyes open as they have alot to learn.

It's depressing how seriously you take yourself. You post a camera that looks like a student project for comments and then talk to us like we're cavemen when even the manufacturer has limited their claims for it. Might even be the first maker that I've seen admit it isn't for world+dog

Yeah, it'll be a great camera when it takes over the world. Or it will fail miserably, as Sigma cameras tend to do.

Fail in what sense ?

If the cameras take excellent photographs, as the current Sigma models do, and give great satisfaction to their owners, and each camera sold makes a profit -- then the camera is a success.

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AlphaTikal
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Re: "But at low ISO nothing can beat this camera." - CEO SIGMA
In reply to TRIODEROB, 6 months ago

Do you have a link where you got that?
--
ยท http://www.flickr.com/photos/blackhole_eater/
· (All photos are creative common licensed. Check them out.)
· English is not my native language.

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amalric
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Re: "But at low ISO nothing can beat this camera." - CEO SIGMA
In reply to D Cox, 6 months ago

D Cox wrote:

Jack Hass wrote:

F2.8 and fixed lens is a deal breaker. Not fast enough for the 45/75mm versions, and im not buying multiple cameras for each application. I have one camera with different lenses that can do everything, ill keep it that way.

Sigma do make a DSLR with changeable lenses too. They will probably update it with the new sensor and battery next year.

Their argument for using fixed lenses is that each lens can be precisely matched to and aligned with the sensor.

Nobody has mentioned what is in my opinion the big defect of these new cameras, which is that the LCD screen doesn't tilt. That means you can't use the camera at waist level, which is the best position for holding a camera steady and avoiding shake.

The new shape suggests that these cameras might mainly be used for Landscape and Portrait on a Tripod, and so the separate button for AF. Just a suggestion.

BTW the CEO about not wanting to get too big is interesting. Once you do you must replicate performance and it becomes more difficult and anonymous.

By keeping a certain size instead you keep the art and craft spirit, which saved Leica.

To do it while keeping small prices is genius. But go explain the majority of illiterates here.

As for the shape of the camera it is anticonventional, a crime for those, but again it would match well  a tripod, and perhaps even  a coat's pocket. Keep in mind that large resolutions need an extremely steady platform.

Am.

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Lumixdude
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High ISO is for dunderheads who simply don't know how to use a camera
In reply to fishywisht, 6 months ago

ZOMG... AMAZING HIGH ISO...

Quit flagellating yourself and learn how to use a camera... ISO is the last thing you should adjust when in the 1% of your shots you can't adjust your exposure value or your F/stop to get the shot that you want.

There are too many people on DPreview who don't know how to use a camera... let the lens do the heavy lifting, not the body...

So many people run around in circles like my dog does when it greets someone at the door....

ZOMG I CAN SHOOT AT ISO64000 ZOMG MY CAMERA IS AMAZING!!!!

Plonkers...

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Re: "But at low ISO nothing can beat this camera." - CEO SIGMA
In reply to TRIODEROB, 6 months ago

TRIODEROB wrote:

the owner of Sigma has stated that the new "Quattro" camera coming out in approx summertime will be unbeatable in sunny conditions.

Low ISO does not equal "sunny conditions."

comments ???

As for the new Sigma sensor, it needs to be better than the previous version for those concerned with higher ISO shooting while retaining the same true resolution as the current sensor. He has already stated the improvement is one stop. I'm not sure redesigning away the core reasoning of how the current sensor works is worth it just for one stop.

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Lumixdude
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Re: "But at low ISO nothing can beat this camera." - CEO SIGMA
In reply to Basalite, 6 months ago

BUT MICRO FOUR THIRDS CAN ONLY SHOOT IN SUNNY CONDITIONS!!!

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Dissenter
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Re: "But at low ISO nothing can beat this camera." - CEO SIGMA
In reply to TRIODEROB, 6 months ago

TRIODEROB wrote:

I don't know why I waste my time on this forum.

people make statements that are ridiculous.

and really its disrespectful to someone like the owner of Sigma.

here we have someone who owns one of the last FAMILY run independent remaining lens and camera companies in Japan.

this is a person who has created one of best digital cameras ever produced with regard to image quality -being in the same class as the Nikon D800E.

in addition the company is now producing lens ( art series ) which are in the category of the legendary German makers for a fraction of the cost

his compacts have no peer for the money and now he has stated that he is about to release a camera which will be a "show stopper"

the folks making comments have an understanding of digital cameras which is extremely primitive compared to this person and would do well to keep the mouth shut and the eyes open as they have alot to learn.

there is a very good reason the camera is shaped as it is and there is also a very good reason its a fixed lens

When you need a longer focal length?

When you need a wider focal length?

Up the creek without a paddle.

I'd rather get the shot than being an unrealistic fanboy.

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RobertSigmund
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In reply to D Cox, 6 months ago

D Cox wrote:

fishywisht wrote:

It has a funny shape, a bit like a student's technical design project. But does the world need another compact camera that takes unusually detailed pictures of Barbados beach? I have some shots with 110 film that came out quite well, if you're interested.

Such shots are exceedingly rare, so look after them carefully.

The best format ever!

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unknown member
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Multiple Cameras Can Be Good
In reply to Jack Hass, 6 months ago

Jack Hass wrote:

F2.8 and fixed lens is a deal breaker. Not fast enough for the 45/75mm versions, and im not buying multiple cameras for each application. I have one camera with different lenses that can do everything, ill keep it that way.

A lens with a wider aperture would also decrease corner sharpness. The whole point of these cameras is to maximize image detail.

If they are small then what's wrong with having "multiple cameras" with a prime lens on each? You would never have to worry about changing lenses and getting dust on the sensor and you would still have a much lighter and much less bulky of a bag/case.

I own the current Sigmas DP cameras and my tiny little case for them can hold all three versions. That case is about as long as a pencil and just under three inches in height. Here it is with it holding two Sigma DPs.

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Re: "But at low ISO nothing can beat this camera." - CEO SIGMA
In reply to D Cox, 6 months ago

D Cox wrote:

Jack Hass wrote:

F2.8 and fixed lens is a deal breaker. Not fast enough for the 45/75mm versions, and im not buying multiple cameras for each application. I have one camera with different lenses that can do everything, ill keep it that way.

Sigma do make a DSLR with changeable lenses too. They will probably update it with the new sensor and battery next year.

Their argument for using fixed lenses is that each lens can be precisely matched to and aligned with the sensor.

Nobody has mentioned what is in my opinion the big defect of these new cameras, which is that the LCD screen doesn't tilt. That means you can't use the camera at waist level, which is the best position for holding a camera steady and avoiding shake.

I say practice your handholding technique. The last time I shot a camera at waist level was with a TLR.ย 

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Re: "But at low ISO nothing can beat this camera." - CEO SIGMA
In reply to amalric, 6 months ago

amalric wrote:

D Cox wrote:

Jack Hass wrote:

F2.8 and fixed lens is a deal breaker. Not fast enough for the 45/75mm versions, and im not buying multiple cameras for each application. I have one camera with different lenses that can do everything, ill keep it that way.

Sigma do make a DSLR with changeable lenses too. They will probably update it with the new sensor and battery next year.

Their argument for using fixed lenses is that each lens can be precisely matched to and aligned with the sensor.

Nobody has mentioned what is in my opinion the big defect of these new cameras, which is that the LCD screen doesn't tilt. That means you can't use the camera at waist level, which is the best position for holding a camera steady and avoiding shake.

The new shape suggests that these cameras might mainly be used for Landscape and Portrait on a Tripod, and so the separate button for AF. Just a suggestion.

BTW the CEO about not wanting to get too big is interesting. Once you do you must replicate performance and it becomes more difficult and anonymous.

By keeping a certain size instead you keep the art and craft spirit, which saved Leica.

To do it while keeping small prices is genius. But go explain the majority of illiterates here.

As for the shape of the camera it is anticonventional, a crime for those, but again it would match well a tripod, and perhaps even a coat's pocket. Keep in mind that large resolutions need an extremely steady platform.

Am.

I think the current shape makes more sense. Finding an appropriate bag/case will also be challenging. I can fit all three current DP cameras in my bag. With the new design I would not be able to.

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Re: "But at low ISO nothing can beat this camera." - CEO SIGMA
In reply to NexOffender, 6 months ago

NexOffender wrote:

Any camera can take good pictures in bright sun.

More accurately it is low ISO that the Sigmas excel at. Low ISO doesn't require "bright sun."

It's like bragging that your car is the fastest downhill.

Obviously you don't know much about Sigma cameras and the Foveon sensor they use. It's really sad 11 other people, so far, think likewise.

No Bayer sensor camera can even begin to come close to the image quality that a Foveon sensor can produce for equal amounts of pixel dimensions and sensor surface area.

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Re: "But at low ISO nothing can beat this camera." - CEO SIGMA
In reply to crashpc, 6 months ago

crashpc wrote:

Maybe good for critical work or benchmarks,

I would say most serious photographers consider most of their picture taking to be "critical work."

but I don´t give ehm pretty anything... I don´t pay attention to this, as I need unbeatable cam in speed and hi ISO regions more often than I need it in low ISO speed region.

Maybe your type of shooting warrants that requirement but a lot of young photographers also think that way because that's what everyone in the bandwagon thinks.

This product is also very ugly

What does the appearance of a camera have to do with its performance? It's not jewelry.

and I wonder about ergonomics and how one cand hold it, use it, review images and so on. I was into Sigma, happily watching their progress, but this looks like nonsense to me. Step aside and little bit back.

I'm not crazy about the new shape either but until you actually hold one all you can do is "wonder."

-- hide signature --

Why does he do it?

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Re: "But at low ISO nothing can beat this camera." - CEO SIGMA
In reply to dinoSnake, 6 months ago

dinoSnake wrote:

the owner of Sigma has stated that the new "Quattro" camera coming out in approx summertime will be unbeatable in sunny conditions.

comments ???

That is an awfully restrictive clause of operation.

No it isn't. That's what existed in the film days and photographers did just fine.

It makes me wonder where the CEO's head is: the test of the works is fighting for higher ISO hegemony and here is Sigma, pretty much saying that they are ignoring an entire market and seeking their own path. And then, year after year, their camera sales fall below their hopes and expectations (I'm sure).

His head is in maximizing image quality in the ISO range most people actually shoot in.

Maybe it's time for the board of directors to look into some new upper management...if only modern corporate boards did more than simply cover their Old Boys Club paychecks.

As far as I know that CEO is part owner, so he is probably not going anywhere.

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zodiacfml
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Re: "But at low ISO nothing can beat this camera." - CEO SIGMA
In reply to NexOffender, 6 months ago

NexOffender wrote:

Any camera can take good pictures in bright sun. It's like bragging that your car is the fastest downhill.

But at low ISO nothing can beat this camera." - CEO SIGMA

He said it is even better......unless you're satisfied with what you're getting in other cameras.

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Re: "But at low ISO nothing can beat this camera." - CEO SIGMA
In reply to dinoSnake, 6 months ago

dinoSnake wrote:

TRIODEROB wrote:

I don't know why I waste my time on this forum.

people make statements that are ridiculous.

and really its disrespectful to someone like the owner of Sigma.

here we have someone who owns one of the last FAMILY run independent remaining lens and camera companies in Japan.

this is a person who has created one of best digital cameras ever produced with regard to image quality -being in the same class as the Nikon D800E.

in addition the company is now producing lens ( art series ) which are in the category of the legendary German makers for a fraction of the cost

his compacts have no peer for the money and now he has stated that he is about to release a camera which will be a "show stopper"

the folks making comments have an understanding of digital cameras which is extremely primitive compared to this person and would do well to keep the mouth shut and the eyes open as they have alot to learn.

there is a very good reason the camera is shaped as it is and there is also a very good reason its a fixed lens

It has NOTHING to do with the technology of camera making and a LOT to do with BUSINESS DECISIONS.

The CEO of Sigma constantly goes after a small market & its matching demographic, almost (intentionally?) missing out on huge opportunities of grabbing more business, and therefore, more customers and more profit. In other words, I lament that Sigma isn't doing BETTER and seriously question the motives and decisions of the CEO, who seems to have a limited view of how popular his products could become if only they were targeted to the center of the market.

I'd rather a company focus on being exceptional in a small area than commonplace and mediocre in all areas.

It is a form of corporate support - I HATE seeing companies fail. I don't give a rat's turd about the stockholders because,

contrary to what Wall Street wants to tell you, your money is NOT guaranteed when you invest in stocks.

LOL. When has "Wall Street" ever said or suggested that?

I feel sorry for the WORKERS when a business goes under - they usually have very little say in the day-to-day operations

That doesn't appear to be the case with Sigma.

yet they always are the first, and greatest, to pay the price for screwups in the form of layoffs, cutbacks, pensions disappearing and losing their livelihood. Stockholders get to sue a company when their stocks lose value because of incompetent or fraudulent management but laid off workers get a pink slip and told "Too bad".

You can't sue a company because your stock value went down due to "incompetent management." Fraud, yes, but not incompetency.

Who wants Sigma to suffer??! I certainly don't but almost all their camera releases in the past decade, maybe even more, have been underachievers in sales - SOMEONE has to start taking responsibility for this, don't you think??

As far as I know that CEO is one of the owners of the company. Obviously he has been taking responsibility for the company. Sigma is by far the most improved camera company that has probably ever existed.

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zodiacfml
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Re: "But at low ISO nothing can beat this camera." - CEO SIGMA
In reply to dinoSnake, 6 months ago

dinoSnake wrote:

the owner of Sigma has stated that the new "Quattro" camera coming out in approx summertime will be unbeatable in sunny conditions.

comments ???

That is an awfully restrictive clause of operation. It makes me wonder where the CEO's head is: the test of the works is fighting for higher ISO hegemony and here is Sigma, pretty much saying that they are ignoring an entire market and seeking their own path. And then, year after year, their camera sales fall below their hopes and expectations (I'm sure).

Maybe it's time for the board of directors to look into some new upper management...if only modern corporate boards did more than simply cover their Old Boys Club paychecks.

You don't know much. Sigma today is what Canon and Nikon in the past. I don't even hope they get as big, all I want are their cameras that meets my expectations for image quality (high resolution is only a small part of IQ).

MF users get by CCD sensors....but look at the IQ.

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