G1X Mark II - What is with the screen??

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
requa
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Re: The problem with screen protectors...
In reply to Marco Nero, 7 months ago

Does the touch screen LCD include a top layer of gorilla glass or similar? I hope so. I would also add that without a built-in VF (and not likely to sell out the extra cash for the EVF, at least until I see some third-party options), one of the major reasons for flipping the LCD around is gone. I don't expect to make nose prints on this one without a VF.

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TheAlex
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Re: The problem with screen protectors...
In reply to requa, 7 months ago

This is awful for me. I was really hopeful for an upgrade to the G1 X and when I saw the G1 X Mark II had improved focus speed and closer focus distance I was well excited.

Then I noticed the lack of an optical viewfinder (which comes in very useful when battery use is an issue) and the lack of the vari-angle screen. A vari-angle screen comes in amazingly useful for taking photos at awkward angles where space is limited - such as at a standing concert or next to a wall, when you're in position and your subject moves - or when you want to be a bit more inconspicuous with your camera and are shooting from the hip. A proper vari-angle screen is the first thing I look for when buying a camera so the G1 X II looks like a definite no.

The lens got scratched on my G1 X when the cap fell off so I need a replacement. I'm not aware of any other fixed lens cameras of the G1 X's size and image quality though?

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Dave92F1
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Re: Engineers can't win.
In reply to howardroark, 7 months ago

howardroark wrote:

At least that tends to be the default position people (non-engineers) take when they don't like something. It makes perfect sense and is perfectly understandable, but if you were part of a team that exhaustively designed, tested, and redesigned a complex system that was greatly influenced by the need to balance one consumer demand with another consumer demand I think you might take it a little easier on the poor designers.

Actually, I am an engineer, and have been "part of a team that exhaustively designed, tested, and redesigned a complex system that was greatly influenced by the need to balance one consumer demand with another consumer demand".

And based on my experience I am sure there are some very annoyed engineers at Canon who preferred the vari-angle design...but lost the argument (been there, done that).

FWIW.  

What is with this? I think it's a huge downgrade from the vari-angle design, which let you nestle the camera tight against your belly for stability (like an old medium-format camera).

Yeah, I seriously doubt there was a lot of importance placed on the very few people who shoot this way. I'd call that a very non-standard method and also not one that was important enough to completely change the design strategy.

If you don't have a viewfinder (optical or EVF), then you can't brace the camera against your head.  My solution has been to brace against the body instead (it works great; try it).

I wasn't aware that "very few people shoot that this way". I thought all experienced photographers did this when using a camera without an eye-level viewfinder (or tripod...).

Is there another way to brace the camera against vibration if you can't hold it against your head?

(I mean...it's a $800 camera. I know there are people who just hold the camera at arms' length and get horrible blurry pictures.  But at $800 I assume that the majority of buyers know enough about photography to worry about camera shake.)

I always open the screen to the left, so I can see it with the camera braced against my body - it looks like that won't work anymore!

You are not the only person in the world who might buy this camera, but I'd bet you could adjust your strategy if you need to and, if not, I'd bet there are many other cameras for you to choose from.

Yes, I'm well aware of that, but thanks for the patronizing comment anyway. (I say that with love, I do!)

I will probably buy one of these things - my "travel" camera is still a G12 because that's the last compact Canon made with the Vari-angle (except for the G1X which I didn't buy because of the macro limitation - I take lots of product shots up close).

But expressing disappointment with mfr's choices is part of how we give feedback to the vendors.

My guess is that in fact it was a decision that more customers cared about 3 millimeters of size than cared about vari-angle.  And maybe that's correct, but I'm not one of them.

Take your articulating LCD camera out and start trying to pretend like the LCD is a touch screen and make some changes to your settings. You're putting stress on the hinge and you're also most likely changing the orientation of the screen, and making that hinge stiffer to resist people who push buttons harder than necessary is probably not feasible.

That's a good point.  I've never owned a camera with a touchscreen so I didn't think about that.

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panamforeman
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Re: Engineers can't win.
In reply to Dave92F1, 7 months ago

hasn'tDave92F1 wrote:

howardroark wrote:

At least that tends to be the default position people (non-engineers) take when they don't like something. It makes perfect sense and is perfectly understandable, but if you were part of a team that exhaustively designed, tested, and redesigned a complex system that was greatly influenced by the need to balance one consumer demand with another consumer demand I think you might take it a little easier on the poor designers.

Actually, I am an engineer, and have been "part of a team that exhaustively designed, tested, and redesigned a complex system that was greatly influenced by the need to balance one consumer demand with another consumer demand".

And based on my experience I am sure there are some very annoyed engineers at Canon who preferred the vari-angle design...but lost the argument (been there, done that).

FWIW.

What is with this? I think it's a huge downgrade from the vari-angle design, which let you nestle the camera tight against your belly for stability (like an old medium-format camera).

Yeah, I seriously doubt there was a lot of importance placed on the very few people who shoot this way. I'd call that a very non-standard method and also not one that was important enough to completely change the design strategy.

If you don't have a viewfinder (optical or EVF), then you can't brace the camera against your head. My solution has been to brace against the body instead (it works great; try it).

I wasn't aware that "very few people shoot that this way". I thought all experienced photographers did this when using a camera without an eye-level viewfinder (or tripod...).

Is there another way to brace the camera against vibration if you can't hold it against your head?

(I mean...it's a $800 camera. I know there are people who just hold the camera at arms' length and get horrible blurry pictures. But at $800 I assume that the majority of buyers know enough about photography to worry about camera shake.)

I never worry about camera shake and most folks I know don't either. Every digital camera I own: G1X, G15/16/,S95.S100, S110 and several others (not listed because this is a Canon Forum) I hold in front of me to take a shot. Back in film days it was necessary to hold camera to your eye, although I took many a shot by holding a camera up in the air. I've never had a blurred photo unless it was an accidental tripping of the shutter. Any modern camera will produce "good" photos for the user unless they are a complete doofus. I have other cameras that have the type of moveable LSD screen that the G1X II has, and they work exceedingly well.

It just amazes me the "cry babies" and "boo-hooers" who are complaining about this new Canon camera. Some are fanboys from other forums, no doubt, but most are "so-called" Canon users. Man, isn't it a shame that Canon didn't consult you guys before making this camera. And the thing is the camera is still over a month from release. No one, but no one has even touched the camera yet, and you're crying all over this Forum that they didn't meet your wants & desires. How dare Canon! The outrage!  Well, I'll show 'em, I won't buy this dumb ole camera! There!  BooHoo, Sob sob, Sniff sniff!

I have a friend that has worked for Canon, in Japan, for the last 15 years. I'm told that
Canon doesn't pay any attention to the Forums anymore, and one of their VPs said as much a few months ago. At one time they did pay attention, but not for many years now because of the many cry babies and nay-sayers.

They tell me the best way to get Canon's attention is with a personal letter from a professional group or an individual, that is courteous, factual and contains helpful suggestions. The Japanese culture abhors whiners. If you have a legitimate complaint, you will always get a response, maybe not the one you want, but you will get one.

Nuff said!

I always open the screen to the left, so I can see it with the camera braced against my body - it looks like that won't work anymore!

You are not the only person in the world who might buy this camera, but I'd bet you could adjust your strategy if you need to and, if not, I'd bet there are many other cameras for you to choose from.

Yes, I'm well aware of that, but thanks for the patronizing comment anyway. (I say that with love, I do!)

I will probably buy one of these things - my "travel" camera is still a G12 because that's the last compact Canon made with the Vari-angle (except for the G1X which I didn't buy because of the macro limitation - I take lots of product shots up close).

But expressing disappointment with mfr's choices is part of how we give feedback to the vendors.

My guess is that in fact it was a decision that more customers cared about 3 millimeters of size than cared about vari-angle. And maybe that's correct, but I'm not one of them.

Take your articulating LCD camera out and start trying to pretend like the LCD is a touch screen and make some changes to your settings. You're putting stress on the hinge and you're also most likely changing the orientation of the screen, and making that hinge stiffer to resist people who push buttons harder than necessary is probably not feasible.

That's a good point. I've never owned a camera with a touchscreen so I didn't think about that.

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phazelag
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Re: The problem with screen protectors...
In reply to TheAlex, 7 months ago

TheAlex wrote:

This is awful for me. I was really hopeful for an upgrade to the G1 X and when I saw the G1 X Mark II had improved focus speed and closer focus distance I was well excited.

Then I noticed the lack of an optical viewfinder (which comes in very useful when battery use is an issue) and the lack of the vari-angle screen. A vari-angle screen comes in amazingly useful for taking photos at awkward angles where space is limited - such as at a standing concert or next to a wall, when you're in position and your subject moves - or when you want to be a bit more inconspicuous with your camera and are shooting from the hip. A proper vari-angle screen is the first thing I look for when buying a camera so the G1 X II looks like a definite no.

The lens got scratched on my G1 X when the cap fell off so I need a replacement. I'm not aware of any other fixed lens cameras of the G1 X's size and image quality though?

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I think your concerns are valid.  I am hoping the touch screen is durable.  My experience with Canon tells me I will be OK.  Plus the Canon Repair facility is close to me and they have repaired stuff for free out of warranty even.

But I think in your position Alex I would give it a try.  I have heard good things about these variangle screens.

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phazelag
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Is it true that a vary angle is thicker?
In reply to Dave92F1, 7 months ago

I have been thinking about this and its hard for me to visualize why a vari-angle might make it thicker.

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panamforeman
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Re: G1X Mark II - What is with the screen??
In reply to Dave92F1, 7 months ago

Someone is worried about "camera shake" since the LCD is no longer a swivel & articulated screen. I tell ya, we're getting to the ridiculous on complaints on a new camera not even released yet.

I never worry about camera shake and most folks I know don't either. Every digital camera I own: G1X, G15/16/,S95.S100, S110 and several others (not listed because this is a Canon Forum) I hold in front of me to take a shot. Back in film days it was necessary to hold camera to your eye, although I took many a shot by holding a camera up in the air. I've never had a blurred photo unless it was an accidental tripping of the shutter. Any modern camera will produce "good" photos for the user unless they are a complete doofus. I have other cameras that have the type of moveable LSD screen that the G1X II has, and they work exceedingly well.

It just amazes me the "cry babies" and "boo-hooers" who are complaining about this new Canon camera. Some are fanboys from other forums, no doubt, but most are "so-called" Canon users. Man, isn't it a shame that Canon didn't consult you guys before making this camera. And the thing is the camera is still over a month from release. No one, but no one has even touched the camera yet, and you're crying all over this Forum that they didn't meet your wants & desires. How dare Canon! The outrage! Well, I'll show 'em, I won't buy this dumb ole camera! There! BooHoo, Sob sob, Sniff sniff!

I have a friend that has worked for Canon, in Japan, for the last 15 years. I'm told that
Canon doesn't pay any attention to the Forums anymore, and one of their VPs said as much a few months ago. At one time they did pay attention, but not for many years now because of the many cry babies and nay-sayers.

They tell me the best way to get Canon's attention is with a personal letter from a professional group or an individual, that is courteous, factual and contains helpful suggestions. The Japanese culture abhors whiners. If you have a legitimate complaint, you will always get a response, maybe not the one you want, but you will get one.

Nuff said!

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nevada5
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Re: G1X Mark II - What is with the screen??
In reply to panamforeman, 7 months ago

panamforeman wrote:

Someone is worried about "camera shake" since the LCD is no longer a swivel & articulated screen. I tell ya, we're getting to the ridiculous on complaints on a new camera not even released yet.

I never worry about camera shake and most folks I know don't either. Every digital camera I own: G1X, G15/16/,S95.S100, S110 and several others (not listed because this is a Canon Forum) I hold in front of me to take a shot. Back in film days it was necessary to hold camera to your eye, although I took many a shot by holding a camera up in the air. I've never had a blurred photo unless it was an accidental tripping of the shutter. Any modern camera will produce "good" photos for the user unless they are a complete doofus. I have other cameras that have the type of moveable LSD screen that the G1X II has, and they work exceedingly well.

It just amazes me the "cry babies" and "boo-hooers" who are complaining about this new Canon camera. Some are fanboys from other forums, no doubt, but most are "so-called" Canon users. Man, isn't it a shame that Canon didn't consult you guys before making this camera. And the thing is the camera is still over a month from release. No one, but no one has even touched the camera yet, and you're crying all over this Forum that they didn't meet your wants & desires. How dare Canon! The outrage! Well, I'll show 'em, I won't buy this dumb ole camera! There! BooHoo, Sob sob, Sniff sniff!

I have a friend that has worked for Canon, in Japan, for the last 15 years. I'm told that
Canon doesn't pay any attention to the Forums anymore, and one of their VPs said as much a few months ago. At one time they did pay attention, but not for many years now because of the many cry babies and nay-sayers.

They tell me the best way to get Canon's attention is with a personal letter from a professional group or an individual, that is courteous, factual and contains helpful suggestions. The Japanese culture abhors whiners. If you have a legitimate complaint, you will always get a response, maybe not the one you want, but you will get one.

Nuff said!

Feel better now?

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panamforeman
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Re: G1X Mark II - What is with the screen??
In reply to nevada5, 7 months ago

nevada5 wrote:

panamforeman wrote:

Someone is worried about "camera shake" since the LCD is no longer a swivel & articulated screen. I tell ya, we're getting to the ridiculous on complaints on a new camera not even released yet.

I never worry about camera shake and most folks I know don't either. Every digital camera I own: G1X, G15/16/,S95.S100, S110 and several others (not listed because this is a Canon Forum) I hold in front of me to take a shot. Back in film days it was necessary to hold camera to your eye, although I took many a shot by holding a camera up in the air. I've never had a blurred photo unless it was an accidental tripping of the shutter. Any modern camera will produce "good" photos for the user unless they are a complete doofus. I have other cameras that have the type of moveable LSD screen that the G1X II has, and they work exceedingly well.

It just amazes me the "cry babies" and "boo-hooers" who are complaining about this new Canon camera. Some are fanboys from other forums, no doubt, but most are "so-called" Canon users. Man, isn't it a shame that Canon didn't consult you guys before making this camera. And the thing is the camera is still over a month from release. No one, but no one has even touched the camera yet, and you're crying all over this Forum that they didn't meet your wants & desires. How dare Canon! The outrage! Well, I'll show 'em, I won't buy this dumb ole camera! There! BooHoo, Sob sob, Sniff sniff!

I have a friend that has worked for Canon, in Japan, for the last 15 years. I'm told that
Canon doesn't pay any attention to the Forums anymore, and one of their VPs said as much a few months ago. At one time they did pay attention, but not for many years now because of the many cry babies and nay-sayers.

They tell me the best way to get Canon's attention is with a personal letter from a professional group or an individual, that is courteous, factual and contains helpful suggestions. The Japanese culture abhors whiners. If you have a legitimate complaint, you will always get a response, maybe not the one you want, but you will get one.

Nuff said!

Feel better now?

Yeah, I guess it was an unnecessary rant! I apologize if I offended any sob-sister. But lets at least wait until the camera is out, then we can hear about the strengths and short-comings of the G1X II. And I have no doubt there will be many wanting to criticize, and hopefully many to praise it.

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OpticsEngineer
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Re: G1X Mark II - What is with the screen??
In reply to Dave92F1, 7 months ago

"What is Canon thinking?"

Hard to say for sure.  But in corporate thinking, the goal is usually to pick the design that is objectionable to the fewest people.   It is all driven by trying to reduce the number of customer complaints.   Unfortunately, that choice is often not the same choice as the design that is enthusiastically enjoyed by the largest number of people.  It makes it hard to get any true enthusiast products made.

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Mk7
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Re: G1X Mark II - What is with the screen??
In reply to panamforeman, 7 months ago

panamforeman wrote:

They tell me the best way to get Canon's attention is with a personal letter from a professional group or an individual, that is courteous, factual and contains helpful suggestions. The Japanese culture abhors whiners. If you have a legitimate complaint, you will always get a response, maybe not the one you want, but you will get one.

Nuff said!

There is a fine line between whining and legitimately complaining

I think we will see fewer and fewer vari-angle screens on compacts, and more tilting.

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biza43
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Do we need another topic to discuss this?
In reply to Dave92F1, 7 months ago

Has been discussed already, do a search if you need to complain about this really crucial aspect of the camera...

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Ranlee
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Re: Engineers can't win.
In reply to panamforeman, 7 months ago

Well said!  And, regarding stability I have never used the OVF on my G1X.  Looked through it once and decided to disregard it.  Of course that doesn't mean I have to hold the camera at arms length to take a shot.  Grasping the camera with 2 hands, tucking my elbows tight to my body and keeping the camera about 8 inches in front of my nose works quite well.  OIS is a marvelous thing.

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Re: Engineers can't win.
In reply to Dave92F1, 7 months ago

Dave92F1 wrote:

howardroark wrote:

At least that tends to be the default position people (non-engineers) take when they don't like something. It makes perfect sense and is perfectly understandable, but if you were part of a team that exhaustively designed, tested, and redesigned a complex system that was greatly influenced by the need to balance one consumer demand with another consumer demand I think you might take it a little easier on the poor designers.

Actually, I am an engineer, and have been "part of a team that exhaustively designed, tested, and redesigned a complex system that was greatly influenced by the need to balance one consumer demand with another consumer demand".

And based on my experience I am sure there are some very annoyed engineers at Canon who preferred the vari-angle design...but lost the argument (been there, done that).

FWIW.  

It's possible I suppose.  Do you really think the bigwigs chose that screen design?  Do you think it is likely cheaper or easier to manufacture or allows for a higher profit margin?  When I saw that screen and video of people using it all I thought about was having the screen set firmly in place for use as a touch interface and also how a swivel/rotating joint like their standard articulated hinge would move way too easily under the slightest pressure and end up hacking everyone who tried to use it off.

What is with this? I think it's a huge downgrade from the vari-angle design, which let you nestle the camera tight against your belly for stability (like an old medium-format camera).

Yeah, I seriously doubt there was a lot of importance placed on the very few people who shoot this way. I'd call that a very non-standard method and also not one that was important enough to completely change the design strategy.

If you don't have a viewfinder (optical or EVF), then you can't brace the camera against your head.  My solution has been to brace against the body instead (it works great; try it).

When I shoot I brace my arms against my body and not the camera.  Of course that still allows for a pretty long moment arm that will magnify any shake, but if that's really a problem then buy the EVF.  If that's not an option why not get an SLR for the ergonomics and viewfinder.  I just don't understand why people post comments about why they are upset about a single model not being right for them.  When I see a camera that isn't right for me I move on with my life.  I suppose I can understand finding something almost perfect and lamenting it, but it doesn't make me feel sorry for anyone.  Nietzsche said "One must want nothing to be different-not forward, not backward, not in all eternity. Not only bear what is necessary, but to love it."

I wasn't aware that "very few people shoot that this way". I thought all experienced photographers did this when using a camera without an eye-level viewfinder (or tripod...).

Maybe most people unable to hold the camera steady for one reason or another.  My 66 year old parents don't brace the camera against their bodies, they hold the camera up and look through the LCD just like I do.  Still, I understand your needs may be different an there are ways to adjust for any instability you might need to deal with.

Is there another way to brace the camera against vibration if you can't hold it against your head?

Yes, with your arms.  You can use your arms if they are steady enough to hold a pound of weight at eye level in front of your body, or you can brace your arms (elbows against your torso) against your own body and tilt the screen accordingly.

(I mean...it's a $800 camera. I know there are people who just hold the camera at arms' length and get horrible blurry pictures.  But at $800 I assume that the majority of buyers know enough about photography to worry about camera shake.)

No, there are many, many people (like myself and retired parents) that get great pictures at arm's length.  The only time you really have to worry about camera shake is when using longer exposure times.  Otherwise, if you're shooting at 1/125 of a second you'd have to have some pretty unsteady hands to see a lot of camera shake, and in bright light at 1/500 you'd probably have to be swinging the camera around your head to get a lot of blur.

I always open the screen to the left, so I can see it with the camera braced against my body - it looks like that won't work anymore!

You are not the only person in the world who might buy this camera, but I'd bet you could adjust your strategy if you need to and, if not, I'd bet there are many other cameras for you to choose from.

Yes, I'm well aware of that, but thanks for the patronizing comment anyway. (I say that with love, I do!)

I was just saying that you should move on with your life and buy one of the many, many cameras out there that would fit your needs.  If not, the G1 X is still for sale.  Or you can buy the EVF.  Or you can complain here and expect nothing in the world to change because Canon doesn't read these comments.  Honestly, I'd suggest you write directly to Canon to let your voice be heard....really, that's probably the surest bet they'll pay some attention, and if you get a lot of other people to write then you keep increasing your odds.

I will probably buy one of these things - my "travel" camera is still a G12 because that's the last compact Canon made with the Vari-angle (except for the G1X which I didn't buy because of the macro limitation - I take lots of product shots up close).

With the 250D close up lens and a tripod the G1 X would be perfect for you.  Don't like to use tripods?

But expressing disappointment with mfr's choices is part of how we give feedback to the vendors.

Not here it isn't.  Vendors have better things to do than read one of the million forums on the internet.  Write to them.

My guess is that in fact it was a decision that more customers cared about 3 millimeters of size than cared about vari-angle.  And maybe that's correct, but I'm not one of them.

Take your articulating LCD camera out and start trying to pretend like the LCD is a touch screen and make some changes to your settings. You're putting stress on the hinge and you're also most likely changing the orientation of the screen, and making that hinge stiffer to resist people who push buttons harder than necessary is probably not feasible.

That's a good point.  I've never owned a camera with a touchscreen so I didn't think about that.

Good luck finding something that you like.  I know how frustrating it can be.  The G1 X was the first P&S I ever owned that I didn't hate with a passion.  I wasn't trying to be condescending, but only make you aware that while I understand your frustration I don't think the G1 X Mark II is flawed in any way.

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Dave92F1
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Re: Is it true that a vary angle is thicker?
In reply to phazelag, 7 months ago

phazelag wrote:

I have been thinking about this and its hard for me to visualize why a vari-angle might make it thicker

I think vari-angle makes the screen wider, not thicker. They need room for the hinge on the side, which needs to be beefy enough to take some abuse.

By moving the hinge to the top, they put it in a place where they had spare space anyway (so not making the overall dimensions of the camera increase).  And having 2 attach points instead of one means each can be smaller, of course.

Canon's engineers are not stupid (on the contrary!), but the marketing people often have different priorities than experienced users (at least this user).  I suspect marketing decided size (saving 2 or 3 mm on the width) was more important than keeping the vari-angle.  I disagree, but at least its' a rational reason. (And, not having tried vari-angle with a touchscreen, maybe that was an issue as well.)

On the other hand, sometimes marketing deliberately withholds features that could have been provided without increasing cost at all.  For example, there is no 60p video mode at all (not even at 720p or 640p).  Why?  Probably either to "protect" some higher-end model (DSLR maybe), or to leave room for a Mark III in the future - with hopes that customers will pay again to get that feature.

That sort of thing is terribly disappointing.

From my (very personal) POV, the G1X Mark II is very nearly the perfect "travel" camera.  They fixed the major problems of the Mark I (macro, built-in lens cover, AF speed, added the touchscreen), and vastly improved the lens.  And I think the modest pixel count is great (it will help with DR and sensitivity).

The disappointments (again, for me personally) are:

* No vari-angle (annoying, but I can probably live with it)

* No 60p video modes at all (not even at lower resolutions)

* No high-speed video modes (frame rates > 60 Hz)

* No GPS (or GPS via Bluetooth from smartphone) for automatic geo-tagging

* No optical viewfinder (I will only miss it a little, but it was occasionally useful)

Except for the last item, all of those _could_ have been included at little or no increase in cost or size. So to that extent, I'm disappointed.

Still, it's an excellent upgrade over my existing G12 (I couldn't say that about the Mark I due to the macro issue), so I'll probably get one.

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Dave92F1
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Re: Engineers can't win.
In reply to howardroark, 7 months ago

howardroark wrote:

It's possible I suppose. Do you really think the bigwigs chose that screen design? Do you think it is likely cheaper or easier to manufacture or allows for a higher profit margin?

I think it saved 2 or 3 mm on the width of the camera (vs. vari-angle); see my other post about that. I don't agree with their priorities, but at least it's a rational reason.

When I shoot I brace my arms against my body and not the camera. Of course that still allows for a pretty long moment arm that will magnify any shake, but if that's really a problem then buy the EVF.

Ah, but the EVF can't be used as flexibly as the vari-angle, and it makes the camera a lot larger, which defeats the whole purpose of the thing. I have a 60D DSLR that I could drag around if I wanted to...this is a compact, I want it small.

If that's not an option why not get an SLR for the ergonomics and viewfinder.

I have one. But a compact fills a different niche - I don't carry around a 60D, lenses, and a tripod every day.

No, there are many, many people (like myself and retired parents) that get great pictures at arm's length. The only time you really have to worry about camera shake is when using longer exposure times. Otherwise, if you're shooting at 1/125 of a second you'd have to have some pretty unsteady hands to see a lot of camera shake, and in bright light at 1/500 you'd probably have to be swinging the camera around your head to get a lot of blur.

Bracing against the body lets you use significantly lower shutters speeds. OIS and high ISO help of course, but there's no such thing as "enough" - there are always situations where you don't have as much light as you'd like (I never use flash, BTW; I hate the look of it.)

Yes, I'm well aware of that, but thanks for the patronizing comment anyway. (I say that with love, I do!)

I was just saying that you should move on with your life and buy one of the many, many cameras out there that would fit your needs. If not, the G1 X is still for sale. Or you can buy the EVF. Or you can complain here and expect nothing in the world to change because Canon doesn't read these comments. Honestly, I'd suggest you write directly to Canon to let your voice be heard....really, that's probably the surest bet they'll pay some attention, and if you get a lot of other people to write then you keep increasing your odds.

I post here for the same reason (I suppose) you do - for entertainment and to get other people's thoughts in response. I do also hope that if I point out something and a lot of people agree, mfr's will notice and consider it. I think they do check in once in a while and read what people think (I would have somebody doing that if I were them).

I will probably buy one of these things - my "travel" camera is still a G12 because that's the last compact Canon made with the Vari-angle (except for the G1X which I didn't buy because of the macro limitation - I take lots of product shots up close).

With the 250D close up lens and a tripod the G1 X would be perfect for you. Don't like to use tripods?

I use a tripod 80% of the time when I'm using a DSLR. That's not what the compact is for. The compact is meant to be with me on days when I _wasn't_ planning mainly to take photos.

[BTW, and off-topic; how are you getting along with Dominique Francon these days?]

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Re: Engineers can't win.
In reply to Dave92F1, 7 months ago

Dave92F1 wrote:

howardroark wrote:

It's possible I suppose. Do you really think the bigwigs chose that screen design? Do you think it is likely cheaper or easier to manufacture or allows for a higher profit margin?

I think it saved 2 or 3 mm on the width of the camera (vs. vari-angle); see my other post about that. I don't agree with their priorities, but at least it's a rational reason.

You mean the height?  The width is almost exactly the same.  The height is about 5.5mm, which is nothing to sneeze at.  And maybe this strategy takes some thickness off of the body but the overall thickness with the lens is about the same.

When I shoot I brace my arms against my body and not the camera. Of course that still allows for a pretty long moment arm that will magnify any shake, but if that's really a problem then buy the EVF.

Ah, but the EVF can't be used as flexibly as the vari-angle, and it makes the camera a lot larger, which defeats the whole purpose of the thing. I have a 60D DSLR that I could drag around if I wanted to...this is a compact, I want it small.

So it HAS to be the articulating LCD on every camera Canon makes.  Got it.  The EVF can be taken off for storage, but I know what you mean.  You want it all, but you're not going to get it.  The G1 X was great, but the G1 X II is better in many ways even minus the OVF and articulating screen.  I'll take the lens and AF improvements over the articulating LCD any day of the week.

If that's not an option why not get an SLR for the ergonomics and viewfinder.

I have one. But a compact fills a different niche - I don't carry around a 60D, lenses, and a tripod every day.

No, there are many, many people (like myself and retired parents) that get great pictures at arm's length. The only time you really have to worry about camera shake is when using longer exposure times. Otherwise, if you're shooting at 1/125 of a second you'd have to have some pretty unsteady hands to see a lot of camera shake, and in bright light at 1/500 you'd probably have to be swinging the camera around your head to get a lot of blur.

Bracing against the body lets you use significantly lower shutters speeds. OIS and high ISO help of course, but there's no such thing as "enough" - there are always situations where you don't have as much light as you'd like (I never use flash, BTW; I hate the look of it.)

Yes, as does bracing your arms on your body or on a stable object or breathing regulation or shooting on the off-beat of your heart.

Yes, I'm well aware of that, but thanks for the patronizing comment anyway. (I say that with love, I do!)

I was just saying that you should move on with your life and buy one of the many, many cameras out there that would fit your needs. If not, the G1 X is still for sale. Or you can buy the EVF. Or you can complain here and expect nothing in the world to change because Canon doesn't read these comments. Honestly, I'd suggest you write directly to Canon to let your voice be heard....really, that's probably the surest bet they'll pay some attention, and if you get a lot of other people to write then you keep increasing your odds.

I post here for the same reason (I suppose) you do - for entertainment and to get other people's thoughts in response. I do also hope that if I point out something and a lot of people agree, mfr's will notice and consider it. I think they do check in once in a while and read what people think (I would have somebody doing that if I were them).

Nope, Canon doesn't care about this forum and you're wasting your breath if you think they do.  They probably have plenty of work dealing with customer service emails etc. that indicate someone actually does care about something.  Blabbering here is therapy and entertainment, not genuine concern or interest.

I will probably buy one of these things - my "travel" camera is still a G12 because that's the last compact Canon made with the Vari-angle (except for the G1X which I didn't buy because of the macro limitation - I take lots of product shots up close).

With the 250D close up lens and a tripod the G1 X would be perfect for you. Don't like to use tripods?

I use a tripod 80% of the time when I'm using a DSLR. That's not what the compact is for. The compact is meant to be with me on days when I _wasn't_ planning mainly to take photos.

If you're using your compact for macro and/or product shots then a tripod certainly is for a compact and vice versa.  If you're out strolling around then you don't need to worry about the macro ability of the G1 X minus the tripod or the 250D.

[BTW, and off-topic; how are you getting along with Dominique Francon these days?]

I've found someone much more emotionally stable than her, thank the fates.

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Re: Engineers can't win.
In reply to howardroark, 7 months ago

I use a tripod 80% of the time when I'm using a DSLR. That's not what the compact is for. The compact is meant to be with me on days when I _wasn't_ planning mainly to take photos.

If you're using your compact for macro and/or product shots then a tripod certainly is for a compact and vice versa. If you're out strolling around then you don't need to worry about the macro ability of the G1 X minus the tripod or the 250D.

For me, photography is mostly a practical/technical thing, not an artistic thing.

For example - I sometimes go to auctions for used equipment. Viewing day is not the same day as the auction, so I take photos of the equipment I might be bidding on.  I need to focus close, and lighting is often poor, but a tripod is out of the question...the G12 has been great for that.  (A lot better than using my phone.)

The G1X (Mark I) wouldn't be good at that because of the close-focus limits (but the Mark II will).

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Re: Is it true that a vary angle is thicker?
In reply to Dave92F1, 7 months ago

phazelag wrote:

I have been thinking about this and its hard for me to visualize why a vari-angle might make it thicker

I think vari-angle makes the screen wider, not thicker. They need room for the hinge on the side, which needs to be beefy enough to take some abuse.

By moving the hinge to the top, they put it in a place where they had spare space anyway (so not making the overall dimensions of the camera increase).  And having 2 attach points instead of one means each can be smaller, of course.

Canon's engineers are not stupid (on the contrary!), but the marketing people often have different priorities than experienced users (at least this user).  I suspect marketing decided size (saving 2 or 3 mm on the width) was more important than keeping the vari-angle.  I disagree, but at least its' a rational reason. (And, not having tried vari-angle with a touchscreen, maybe that was an issue as well.)

On the other hand, sometimes marketing deliberately withholds features that could have been provided without increasing cost at all.  For example, there is no 60p video mode at all (not even at 720p or 640p).  Why?  Probably either to "protect" some higher-end model (DSLR maybe), or to leave room for a Mark III in the future - with hopes that customers will pay again to get that feature.

That sort of thing is terribly disappointing.

From my (very personal) POV, the G1X Mark II is very nearly the perfect "travel" camera.  They fixed the major problems of the Mark I (macro, built-in lens cover, AF speed, added the touchscreen), and vastly improved the lens.  And I think the modest pixel count is great (it will help with DR and sensitivity).

The disappointments (again, for me personally) are:

* No vari-angle (annoying, but I can probably live with it)

* No 60p video modes at all (not even at lower resolutions)

* No high-speed video modes (frame rates > 60 Hz)

* No GPS (or GPS via Bluetooth from smartphone) for automatic geo-tagging

* No optical viewfinder (I will only miss it a little, but it was occasionally useful)

Except for the last item, all of those _could_ have been included at little or no increase in cost or size. So to that extent, I'm disappointed.

Still, it's an excellent upgrade over my existing G12 (I couldn't say that about the Mark I due to the macro issue), so I'll probably get one.

Yes I agree. Thanks for answering about the hinge hinge. As far as GPS, I use eye-fi cards in all my camera and when using an android phone or tablet it will geotag your photos transferred to your device and then wheb I get home it will upload up to eyefi server and my othet backups like flickr automatically in private mode and I can then download those. Raw or jpegs or both in a zip file from eyefi already geotagged. And I have backups automatically on google drive, and Flickr. Without doing anything. It helps to have superfast internet at home for that part. I have fios and new fast router.
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Re: Engineers can't win.
In reply to Dave92F1, 7 months ago

Dave92F1 wrote:

I use a tripod 80% of the time when I'm using a DSLR. That's not what the compact is for. The compact is meant to be with me on days when I _wasn't_ planning mainly to take photos.

If you're using your compact for macro and/or product shots then a tripod certainly is for a compact and vice versa. If you're out strolling around then you don't need to worry about the macro ability of the G1 X minus the tripod or the 250D.

For me, photography is mostly a practical/technical thing, not an artistic thing.

For example - I sometimes go to auctions for used equipment. Viewing day is not the same day as the auction, so I take photos of the equipment I might be bidding on.  I need to focus close, and lighting is often poor, but a tripod is out of the question...the G12 has been great for that.  (A lot better than using my phone.)

The G1X (Mark I) wouldn't be good at that because of the close-focus limits (but the Mark II will).

250D close up lens.  Spend the $80 or so bucks and you'll have a G1 X with great close focus distance and you'll have your articulating screen to boot.  The great thing about the bayonet mount on the G1 X is you can have the 250D on the adapter already and when you need it snap it onto the lens, turn the camera on, take your picture.

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