G1X Mark II - What is with the screen??

Started Feb 17, 2014 | Discussions
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Dave92F1 New Member • Posts: 16
G1X Mark II - What is with the screen??
3

You can't tell from the photos here on DPR, but the screen on the G1X Mark II is not the usual Canon "Vari-angle" - it's a new thing that only tilts up-and-down, not left-and-right.

What is with this? I think it's a huge downgrade from the vari-angle design, which let you nestle the camera tight against your belly for stability (like an old medium-format camera).

I always open the screen to the left, so I can see it with the camera braced against my body - it looks like that won't work anymore!

I'm a huge fan of vari-angle, I've had 4 or 5 cameras with it. And I tried the Sony R1 years back and got rid of it because it had a similar up-and-down-only flip screen.

What is Canon thinking?

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linzybel Regular Member • Posts: 450
Re: G1X Mark II - What is with the screen??

I think we'll have to wait and see how it works in practice.  I suspect they thought the flip screen was used mostly for 1) selfies, 2) overhead crowd shots, and 3) ground level macro shots, all of which would be available or maybe even better in the new design.  They didn't stop to think about your type of "waist-level" viewing.

I also suspect that they decided a two-point hinge would be stronger (and maybe lighter) than the traditional tilt-swivel.

Dave92F1 OP New Member • Posts: 16
Re: G1X Mark II - What is with the screen??
1

The vari-angle design does all those things just fine. And I've never had a problem with fragility.

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phazelag
phazelag Veteran Member • Posts: 3,037
Canon Explained why

They explained why in a video or the PDF going around. I think it will be fine. I think they Canon guys said it allowed for a smaller camera.  Not sure why that is but I don't they would make it up.

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Marco Nero
Marco Nero Veteran Member • Posts: 4,381
Bad Design Decision...
3
What is Canon thinking?

Canon made a BIG mistake in not using the Vari-Angle LCD.  Part of this MIGHT have something to do with the new screen being a touch-screen.
.
Unfortunately, this design (if you look at the second GIF image) exposes the electrical wires when the LCD is fully extended.  BAD design.

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phazelag
phazelag Veteran Member • Posts: 3,037
Re: Bad Design Decision...

Marco Nero wrote:

What is Canon thinking?

Canon made a BIG mistake in not using the Vari-Angle LCD. Part of this MIGHT have something to do with the new screen being a touch-screen.
.
Unfortunately, this design (if you look at the second GIF image) exposes the electrical wires when the LCD is fully extended. BAD design.

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I tend to agree with you.  It definitely seems like a step back.  I have two fully articulated screens that I love.  But I have seen Sony, Olympus, and Canon choose this type and I have recall hearing that this allows thinner design from all of them.  I think it will meet my needs fine, but it does on the surface seem less durable or more prone to damage.  But I will wait and see.  I am sure they had valid reasons. I don't think their goal was to disappoint.

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Tonkotsu Ramen
Tonkotsu Ramen Senior Member • Posts: 1,912
Re: G1X Mark II - What is with the screen??

This design is already used on a lot of cameras. It works for me, but then I didn't have the G1X.

(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 2,853
Engineers can't win.
1

At least that tends to be the default position people (non-engineers) take when they don't like something.  It makes perfect sense and is perfectly understandable, but if you were part of a team that exhaustively designed, tested, and redesigned a complex system that was greatly influenced by the need to balance one consumer demand with another consumer demand I think you might take it a little easier on the poor designers.

Dave92F1 wrote:

You can't tell from the photos here on DPR, but the screen on the G1X Mark II is not the usual Canon "Vari-angle" - it's a new thing that only tilts up-and-down, not left-and-right.

It is actually very obvious from the photos on DPR as well as videos, press material, etc etc.

What is with this? I think it's a huge downgrade from the vari-angle design, which let you nestle the camera tight against your belly for stability (like an old medium-format camera).

Yeah, I seriously doubt there was a lot of importance placed on the very few people who shoot this way.  I'd call that a very non-standard method and also not one that was important enough to completely change the design strategy.

I always open the screen to the left, so I can see it with the camera braced against my body - it looks like that won't work anymore!

You are not the only person in the world who might buy this camera, but I'd bet you could adjust your strategy if you need to and, if not, I'd bet there are many other cameras for you to choose from.

I'm a huge fan of vari-angle, I've had 4 or 5 cameras with it. And I tried the Sony R1 years back and got rid of it because it had a similar up-and-down-only flip screen.

What is Canon thinking?

Take your articulating LCD camera out and start trying to pretend like the LCD is a touch screen and make some changes to your settings.  You're putting stress on the hinge and you're also most likely changing the orientation of the screen, and making that hinge stiffer to resist people who push buttons harder than necessary is probably not feasible.  Also, compare how thin this assembly is to a standard articulating LCD.  The truth is that considering what this touchscreen is designed to do it takes care of many, many shooting situations.  Oh, and if Marco thinks some exposed wires is such a horrible design I really think he needs to apply for a job engineering for Canon.

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justmeMN Veteran Member • Posts: 3,500
Re: Engineers can't win.

At least that tends to be the default position people (non-engineers) take when they don't like something.

It seems to me that non-engineers (management/marketing) tell engineers what they want them to make. The decision are made by management, and the design execution is done by engineers.

Marco Nero
Marco Nero Veteran Member • Posts: 4,381
From the Canon G1X User Manual...
5

If it was good enough for the G1X, it should have been good enough for the G1X Mk2.

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XEddieX
XEddieX Contributing Member • Posts: 569
Re: From the Canon G1X User Manual...

Marco Nero wrote:

If it was good enough for the G1X, it should have been good enough for the G1X Mk2.

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Funny I had a screen protector on mine since day one so I'd never had to close to screen face inward.  I really don't see this as an issue.  You can get screen protectors and your good to go.

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phazelag
phazelag Veteran Member • Posts: 3,037
Re: From the Canon G1X User Manual...
1

Marco Nero wrote:

If it was good enough for the G1X, it should have been good enough for the G1X Mk2.

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Marco Nero.
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Funny I had a screen protector on mine since day one so I'd never had to close to screen face inward.  I really don't see this as an issue.  You can get screen protectors and your good to go.

I like to close the screen for shooting theater performances.
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boogieboogie Regular Member • Posts: 199
Re: G1X Mark II - What is with the screen??
5

I for one am very happy they switched to the tilt mechanism. Perfect for operating your camera like a medium format camera with a simple flick to open the screen to 90 degrees and snap shut when I stop shooting. Saves having to unfold it and flip it round each and every time.

This is how I've always used my NEX and find it very comfortable.

You wouldn't use it with the screen opened out on its arms like the photo suggests, this mechanism just gives the screen a hinge point at the bottom as well as the top so allows the screen to flip at least 90 degrees down aswell as a 180 degree flip up. So the wires aren't exposed any more than they are with olympus or sony cameras - which I've never heard anyone having any problems with. In fact I imagine they are more sturdy as the wiring loom isn't getting the twisting stress aswell as flip.

Anyway it's just a matter of changing your technique and there seems to be just as many people who prefer a slimmer camera with no articulation as those that prefer articulation so from a marketing point of view it seems like a good compromise.

XEddieX
XEddieX Contributing Member • Posts: 569
Re: From the Canon G1X User Manual...

phazelag wrote:

Marco Nero wrote:

If it was good enough for the G1X, it should have been good enough for the G1X Mk2.

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Marco Nero.
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Funny I had a screen protector on mine since day one so I'd never had to close to screen face inward. I really don't see this as an issue. You can get screen protectors and your good to go.

I like to close the screen for shooting theater performances.
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Well you could still buy the EVF and have the screen off, but sucks that you would have to spend another $300 to do that.

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(unknown member) Senior Member • Posts: 2,853
Re: Engineers can't win.

justmeMN wrote:

At least that tends to be the default position people (non-engineers) take when they don't like something.

It seems to me that non-engineers (management/marketing) tell engineers what they want them to make. The decision are made by management, and the design execution is done by engineers.

Of course there is a back and forth, but you and I are not in possession of the details involved in that complex process.  Management could have very easily said that a touchscreen was a requirement and the engineers came back with "okay, but if you also want an articulated screen we can't use the old side hinge that rotates because it can't be made stable enough to resist constant force."  Who knows.  If engineers got to built whatever they wanted you'd live in a world of gadgets nobody would want to use because engineers want things made for people are technically minded and aren't bothered by confusing control interfaces that may be perfectly efficient but not terribly intuitive.  Oh, and most engineers don't have a clue about making things that have to be used by a lot of normal people, so some of them do need to be forced out of utilitarian thinking and into aesthetic and simple design strategies.

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jonrobertp Forum Pro • Posts: 12,530
Re: G1X Mark II - What is with the screen??

Indeed. No articulation... save a few $ and a few ounces... would have been my preference and likely others, but maybe not the majority.

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peter42y Senior Member • Posts: 2,181
Re: G1X Mark II - What is with the screen??

I have a Sony DSLR A500 with that type or articulating screen ( the one in the G1X M2 ) , and it does work fine.

Its very handy.

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Marco Nero
Marco Nero Veteran Member • Posts: 4,381
The problem with screen protectors...
1

Rally Man wrote:

Marco Nero wrote:

If it was good enough for the G1X, it should have been good enough for the G1X Mk2.

Funny I had a screen protector on mine since day one so I'd never had to close to screen face inward. I really don't see this as an issue. You can get screen protectors and your good to go.

But the Mk2 has a touch screen.  Canon do not recommend the use of a "screen protector" with touch capacitance screens because it affects the use of the device.  Too many people complained over the EOS-M touch screen when using screen protectors.  It also hampers vision.

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panamforeman
panamforeman Senior Member • Posts: 1,004
Re: From the Canon G1X User Manual...

I admit I would be happier if Canon had kept the fully articulated screen, but they didn't. I'm still excited about the G1X MkII and plan on buying one.

I'm also pleased about the EVF. I know I'll get that. $300 extra tho does give me pause. I'll get the camera first and wait on reviews of the EVF, even tho I know I'll eventually get it.

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Tonkotsu Ramen
Tonkotsu Ramen Senior Member • Posts: 1,912
Re: The problem with screen protectors...

I've had screen protectors on every touchscreen phone I've ever owned, and my eos-m. No issues with viewing or operation

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