Sony a6000 h lens roadmap

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
NowHearThis
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you misquoted the rumor site...
In reply to Christof21, 7 months ago

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

Coming from Fuji, I could be interested in the new A6000. It has lot's of features really interesting (more mp, high AF coverage, zebra...). You won't be surprised if I tell you that the problem is the lens...

I could be interested in Sony if they had a roadmap for APS-C E mount lenses. If my understanding is correct, they will only invest in FE mount lenses which are compatible with APS-C.

That information comes from a rumor site and the rumor site said "mainly focus", not "only focus".  That's a big difference.  Besides, Sony reserves the right to do whatever they want to stay competitive.  If that means, market demand wants them to release faster primes, long telephotos, ... then they will.  Right now Sony had some very enticing options: 16-70/4 Zeiss, 10-18, 70-200/4 among others

The problem is that it is better to use lenses designed for APS--C, you have more resolution.

No, using FF lenses on APS-C bodies means you're shooting through the sweet spot on the glass.

What are your expectations if you have a Sony APS-C ?

I used to have a NEX 7, all i ever wanted was a 16-80 with OSS, that one lens will do most of what I need.  Everyone manufacturer should make one; skip the 18-xxx, just give me wider and a fixed F/4 with high image quality.

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Jonathan_Whiteman
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Re: Sony a6000 h lens roadmap
In reply to RonFrank, 7 months ago

Don't forget the LAEA2 either. For my "legacy" NEX-5 it's added a 70-300mm and a 17-70mm (starting at f2.8). Both have PDAF and OSS. Basically, if you really want a great lens line up then simply add the LAEA2 today and hit the a-mount lenses. Personally though, the 35mm, 20mm and kit 18-55mm are pretty much all I use despite owning way too many

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RonFrank
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Re: Sony a6000 h lens roadmap
In reply to Monty Parker, 7 months ago

Monty Parker wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Rupek wrote:

Euell wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

Coming from Fuji, I could be interested in the new A6000. It has lot's of features really interesting (more mp, high AF coverage, zebra...). You won't be surprised if I tell you that the problem is the lens...

I could be interested in Sony if they had a roadmap for APS-C E mount lenses. If my understanding is correct, they will only invest in FE mount lenses which are compatible with APS-C. The problem is that it is better to use lenses designed for APS--C, you have more resolution.

What are your expectations if you have a Sony APS-C ?

The problem, if there is one, is not with the resolution of FE lenses used with APSc bodies, but rather with the availability of appropriate APSc focal lengths . FF lenses likely to be expensive too, although we have seen Sony up the tab on APSc lenses too.

You are loosing resolution (and light) unless you use a system like a speed booster to adapt the FE lenses. I don't know if it exists.

Why would you use light and speed? They will behave the same.

You crop the image circle. So you waste a part of the image (light + resolution)

A lens designed for aps-c will have a smaller image circle, but sharper in density. This is always better to have a lens designed for the sensor size, unless you have an adapter like a speed booster.

Who, in heavens name, taught you this?

Yeah, the lens size and image circle will be larger using a FF lens on a DX body which generally improves corner sharpness and image quality.  The only down side is the extra size makes it larger!

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Monty Parker
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Re: Sony a6000 h lens roadmap
In reply to RonFrank, 7 months ago

RonFrank wrote:

Monty Parker wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Rupek wrote:

Euell wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

Coming from Fuji, I could be interested in the new A6000. It has lot's of features really interesting (more mp, high AF coverage, zebra...). You won't be surprised if I tell you that the problem is the lens...

I could be interested in Sony if they had a roadmap for APS-C E mount lenses. If my understanding is correct, they will only invest in FE mount lenses which are compatible with APS-C. The problem is that it is better to use lenses designed for APS--C, you have more resolution.

What are your expectations if you have a Sony APS-C ?

The problem, if there is one, is not with the resolution of FE lenses used with APSc bodies, but rather with the availability of appropriate APSc focal lengths . FF lenses likely to be expensive too, although we have seen Sony up the tab on APSc lenses too.

You are loosing resolution (and light) unless you use a system like a speed booster to adapt the FE lenses. I don't know if it exists.

Why would you use light and speed? They will behave the same.

You crop the image circle. So you waste a part of the image (light + resolution)

A lens designed for aps-c will have a smaller image circle, but sharper in density. This is always better to have a lens designed for the sensor size, unless you have an adapter like a speed booster.

Who, in heavens name, taught you this?

Yeah, the lens size and image circle will be larger using a FF lens on a DX body which generally improves corner sharpness and image quality. The only down side is the extra size makes it larger!

"sharper in density" ?

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Kawika Nui
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Re: Sony a6000 h lens roadmap
In reply to S3ZAi, 3 months ago

S3ZAi wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

If my understanding is correct, they will only invest in FE mount lenses which are compatible with APS-C.


So what lens(es) would you like for apsc before you could decide to buy the a6000?

Don't know about the OP, but for anyone into outdoor distance shooting (wildlife, surfing, skiing, etc.) some sort of tele-zoom up to at least the common 300mm.  Say, 55-300mm; that's a common one.  Or dare we dream of 28-300mm?

Until then I'm sticking with K-3, or GH-3 (can't really justify GH-4 just for the 4K video).  And maybe the FZ1000, if it proves to be good.  Pretty hard to beat the spec for shooting in the field.

Sezai E., philosophy geek, bibliophile and creative photographer.
Cheers!

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captura
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Re: Sony a6000 h lens roadmap
In reply to Kawika Nui, 3 months ago

Kawika Nui wrote:

S3ZAi wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

If my understanding is correct, they will only invest in FE mount lenses which are compatible with APS-C.

So what lens(es) would you like for apsc before you could decide to buy the a6000?

Don't know about the OP, but for anyone into outdoor distance shooting (wildlife, surfing, skiing, etc.) some sort of tele-zoom up to at least the common 300mm. Say, 55-300mm; that's a common one. Or dare we dream of 28-300mm?

Until then I'm sticking with K-3, or GH-3 (can't really justify GH-4 just for the 4K video). And maybe the FZ1000, if it proves to be good. Pretty hard to beat the spec for shooting in the field.

Sezai E., philosophy geek, bibliophile and creative photographer.
Cheers!

Of course the FZ1000 has only a 1"sensor. Or you could use a Nikon 1 and adapt large Nikon lenses, as many birders do. Also a 1" sensor.

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Kawika Nui
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Re: Sony a6000 h lens roadmap
In reply to captura, 3 months ago

Good point about Nikon, but it's nice to have one piece of kit that does it all.  Also the 4K video allows for pulling 8K images.  Nice for hybrid projects.  Unfortunately the 4K video doesn't work at 60fps.  Decisions, decisions.

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msolea
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Re: Sony a6000 h lens roadmap
In reply to RonFrank, 3 months ago

Sony does make quite a few lenses, but most of them are consumer grade optics. In the APS, the only lens I would consider middle to high end optics are:

12mm Zeiss Touit

32mm Zeiss Touit (although I prefer the FE mount, 35mm)

50mm Zeiss Touit (although I prefer the FE mount, 55mm)

16-70mm Sony-Zeiss

10-18mm Sony E (maybe)

But, if you extend it to include their FE lenses, then I would add the following:

35mm FE

55mm FE

70-200mm FE (a lens I am seriously debating getting, but it is does have a large filter size and a bit limited in zoom range, perhaps if Sony made a 70-300mm G variable aperture in native FE mount of the same or comparable optical quality, I would be set ~ even at the same price I would be sold)

24-70mm FE (maybe, although for APS, the 16-70mm seems to be its equal, at least)

I do not care for adapters that much, especially when AF is desired. But, there are couple of Zeiss ZM or Leica M lenses I would not mind using. Of which, the one Leica lens (75mm Summicron) that I still have, my personal favorite, will be used on my A6000 and future FE camera.

But, for me, they are missing a 70-300/70-400mm FE lens and a Macro FE lens (at 100mm or above) and possibly a faster 35mm FE... That said, if I put Gear Acquisition Syndrome (GAS) aside, there are enough high end lenses to satisfy my needs if I include FE lenses. However, if I went for all FE lenses, I would like a slightly longer zoom range for my standard zoom (non-PZ). Ironically, my favorite zoom lens in the past has been the Nikon 24-120mm f/4G. The copy I had was better than my 24-70mm f/2.8G on my D800e and made for a wonderful casual lens. But, due to size and travel constraints, I rarely took my outfit out and after having to sell my outfit last year. I have been looking at different options and have settled on Sony for now, as it seems Sony has finally found its footing.

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Kawika Nui
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Re: Sony a6000 h lens roadmap
In reply to msolea, 3 months ago

I agree with your comment on adapters. First, simplicity is best: one lens, designed for its task. More importantly, designed for its camera. Switching lenses, even within one brand, can lead to lower IQ. If you do comparison testing using DxOMark's platform, looking at the performance of a given lens on different cameras, sometimes the variation is truly amazing.

That said, I've been doing some comparison shots with a GH3, using the sensor crop feature to increase range, vs. using a TCON. After all, my #1 use is tele-zoom at long range. So far, results are mixed. One thing about a 20mp+ camera, you can use half the pixels and still end up with enough resolution for most uses.

Unfortunately for my video aspirations, on the a6000 the "smart zoom" does not function with video. At "M" size (which appears to be about 12mp) you get a 1.4x extra zoom effect, but this function can be used only with stills. With a 210mm zoomed lens, this still leaves you with about the same as, say, a K-3 at 300mm (using the Pentax 55-300mm or similar): about 450mm equivalent. And in the a6000 the image is about 12mp (or less). In contrast, the GH3 or GH4 with 100-300mm yields 600mm equivalent at 16mp. And if you use the sensor crop function (which also works with video) you are in the neighborhood of 800mm equivalent (with an 8mp image).

Of course, everyone is different. I'm aiming at simplicity of kit, good IQ, and long reach, in a reasonably-sized and affordable package.  For me, the GH3 with 100-300mm (or 45-175mm plus TCON?) is the best I can see at this point.  If Sony made an e-mount long zoom for the a6000, that kit would be on my shelf right now.

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captura
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Re: Sony a6000 h lens roadmap
In reply to Kawika Nui, 3 months ago

Kawika Nui wrote:

Good point about Nikon, but it's nice to have one piece of kit that does it all. Also the 4K video allows for pulling 8K images. Nice for hybrid projects. Unfortunately the 4K video doesn't work at 60fps. Decisions, decisions.

I have a Samsung WB750 that also does it all. It has a Schneider KREUZNACH 18X zoom lens, is a 24mm Wide-angle "ultra-grande-angle" with Dual Capture and Creative Movie-Maker. It does it all, too. Just a different version of your basic point & shoot.

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Aznmadness
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Re: Sony a6000 h lens roadmap
In reply to captura, 3 months ago

i am really waiting for a sharp 85mm f/2.8 Marco lens.

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** Gonna Die Waiting for the SEL 85mm or Fast Macro at a Longer FL**

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Kawika Nui
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Re: Sony a6000 h lens roadmap
In reply to captura, 3 months ago

Samsung: nice camera, but:

No VF, no 60fps video, very small buffer ("burst" = 8 frames, or less than 1 second).  So, becomes "point and pray" under many lighting conditions, can't get good slo-mo, can't capture much action.

And those three items happen to be a the top of my "gotta have" list.

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Michael Everett
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Re: Sony a6000 h lens roadmap
In reply to Aznmadness, 3 months ago

Aznmadness wrote:

i am really waiting for a sharp 85mm f/2.8 Marco lens.

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** Gonna Die Waiting for the SEL 85mm or Fast Macro at a Longer FL**

An SEL 85 would be nice, but for a fast macro at a longer FL, why not the Tamron SP 90/2.8.  It's incredibly sharp and it goes down to 1:1.  I know, it's MF, but for macro work most of the time you want manual focus.  It also makes a superb portrait lens, if you can stand MF for that.

Another alternative for a portrait lens that has been mentioned is the Sigma 60/2.8.  Many consider it the sharpest E-mount lens around, and in spite of what many people say I find 60mm to work very well for portraits.

Michael

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captura
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Re: Sony a6000 h lens roadmap
In reply to Kawika Nui, 3 months ago

Kawika Nui wrote:

Samsung: nice camera, but:

No VF, no 60fps video, very small buffer ("burst" = 8 frames, or less than 1 second). So, becomes "point and pray" under many lighting conditions, can't get good slo-mo, can't capture much action.

And those three items happen to be a the top of my "gotta have" list.

My motive was unabashed, unhindered sarcasm; no seriousness was intended.

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Eamon Hickey
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small, noodgy thing: not the center of the lens but rather the image
In reply to NowHearThis, 2 months ago

NowHearThis wrote:


The problem is that it is better to use lenses designed for APS--C, you have more resolution.

No, using FF lenses on APS-C bodies means you're shooting through the sweet spot on the glass.

This is a tiny point, but I can't resist being noodgy this morning: you're not shooting through the sweet spot (or the center) of the lens. You're using the best portion of the image projected by the lens.

Speaking loosely, the whole area of the lens (for any given aperture) contributes to every image point across the entire frame -- in other words, an image point in the middle of the frame receives light rays from the entire area of the lens, and an image point at the edge of the frame also receives light rays from the entire area of the lens.

But the lens forms better image points in the middle in the middle of its image circle than it does at the edges. So when you use a sensor that captures only a small subsection of the image, you're just cropping out the lower quality image points towards the edges of the image circle.

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Nate Dogg
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Re: Sony a6000 h lens roadmap
In reply to RonFrank, 2 months ago

On major hole Sony has is a native portrait lens (e.g. 85mm f1.8 or f2)

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-Nate

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captura
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Re: small, noodgy thing: not the center of the lens but rather the image
In reply to Eamon Hickey, 2 months ago

Eamon Hickey wrote:

NowHearThis wrote:

The problem is that it is better to use lenses designed for APS--C, you have more resolution.

No, using FF lenses on APS-C bodies means you're shooting through the sweet spot on the glass.

This is a tiny point, but I can't resist being noodgy this morning: you're not shooting through the sweet spot (or the center) of the lens. You're using the best portion of the image projected by the lens.

Speaking loosely, the whole area of the lens (for any given aperture) contributes to every image point across the entire frame -- in other words, an image point in the middle of the frame receives light rays from the entire area of the lens, and an image point at the edge of the frame also receives light rays from the entire area of the lens.

But the lens forms better image points in the middle in the middle of its image circle than it does at the edges. So when you use a sensor that captures only a small subsection of the image, you're just cropping out the lower quality image points towards the edges of the image circle.

As further evidence of your theme....I have had excellent results with the FE28-70 lens, (designed for full frame,) using it with my APS-C cameras. It exceeds expectations and if tested on such an application should result in improved performance as compared to tests performed on the A7 cameras:

Perfect corners and sides.

No apparent distortion.

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Dstilio
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Re: Sony a6000 h lens roadmap
In reply to Nate Dogg, 2 months ago

Nate Dogg wrote:

On major hole Sony has is a native portrait lens (e.g. 85mm f1.8 or f2)

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-Nate

the SEL 50mm f/.1.8, taking into consideration that a6000 has a 1.5x crop factor, is 75mm equivalent field of view in terms of 35mm.

So it's actually there.

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Kawika Nui
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Re: Sony a6000 h lens roadmap
In reply to Bruce Oudekerk, 1 month ago

Bruce Oudekerk wrote:

Christof21 wrote:

Hi,

Coming from Fuji, I could be interested in the new A6000. It has lot's of features really interesting (more mp, high AF coverage, zebra...). You won't be surprised if I tell you that the problem is the lens...

I could be interested in Sony if they had a roadmap for APS-C E mount lenses. If my understanding is correct, they will only invest in FE mount lenses which are compatible with APS-C. The problem is that it is better to use lenses designed for APS--C, you have more resolution.

What are your expectations if you have a Sony APS-C ?

There are two directions a reply could take.

It is true that it is easier and cheaper to design a high performing APS-C than FF but it certainly can be done. FE lenses work fine on APS-C e-mount cameras and so far the few that are out are excellent. The very sharp FE Zeiss zoom is taking some criticism for poorish far-corner resolution but that will hardly affect APS-C. On the other FE extreme is the 55mm which would make a stellar portrait lens on APS-C and you won't find sharper (although the less expensive regular e-mount 50 f1.8 is excellent).

The other issue is what lenses do you envision needing and are there decent e-mount lenses to accommodate you? I'm always amazed at the number of people who reject a system for lack of lenses but have no intention of purchasing the focal lengths, etc, that don't exist. I'm at the other extreme from you apparently. If I'm contemplating another system, I mentally choose a lens selection and then see if there is a camera that I like that they will mount to, not the other way around.

This approach is problematic, unless you can be extremely flexible on shooting requirements.  For example, if you're into sports/wildlife/action shooting and hybrid photography,  you need at least 7fps, with buffer size for at least 3-5 seconds of shooting, and 1080/60p video; and you really need to start your search with a camera that can do those things.  It's easier to do workarounds on the zoom lens (TCON, adapter with non-native lens, etc.) than to make a camera do things it won't do.

I don't look to the future on what they might produce. Right now, I'm trying to get a feel for how good the new e-mount 18-105mm is. It looks to be a killer walk-around APS-C lens to me. If its a go... I'll buy it and the a6000 for a high quality walk-around, one lens solution.

Of course virtually every lens ever made can be adapted to the a6000 but admittedly that isn't for everyone.

Sony isn't the most forthcoming with 'roadmaps'.

Bruce

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Bruce Oudekerk
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Re: Sony a6000 h lens roadmap
In reply to Kawika Nui, 1 month ago

Kawika Nui wrote:

Bruce Oudekerk wrote:

The other issue is what lenses do you envision needing and are there decent e-mount lenses to accommodate you? I'm always amazed at the number of people who reject a system for lack of lenses but have no intention of purchasing the focal lengths, etc, that don't exist. I'm at the other extreme from you apparently. If I'm contemplating another system, I mentally choose a lens selection and then see if there is a camera that I like that they will mount to, not the other way around.

This approach is problematic, unless you can be extremely flexible on shooting requirements. For example, if you're into sports/wildlife/action shooting and hybrid photography, you need at least 7fps, with buffer size for at least 3-5 seconds of shooting, and 1080/60p video; and you really need to start your search with a camera that can do those things. It's easier to do workarounds on the zoom lens (TCON, adapter with non-native lens, etc.) than to make a camera do things it won't do.

In any system purchase scenario I tend to put the most obvious deal-breaker stumbling block first, but any step along the decision chain can or might prove to an eventual deal-breaker. I sense you are doing the same thing. In my case I start with what is the most problematic part. For me its often lenses...or specifically in this case...a good walk-around lens. Admittedly that's a moving target but like everyone I have my criteria and those are stringent enough to eliminate a LOT of marginal choices. 5 years ago I would not have bought my a850 if the old Minolta 28-135 hadn't existed and today I won't be buying an m4/3s OMD EM1 because an equivalent lens doesn't exist.

If we are looking at more traditional dSLRs, there is a certain validity in stating that Nikon or Canon systems make a good choice because of the wide lens choice. That logic dries up quickly if we have eliminated other systems even when they have adequate lens selections for our present and probable future needs.

With all that said, I have to agree with you that great lenses are worthless if there isn't an appropriate camera to use them. But that's a moving target also...and for me a big one. In some ways I have modest needs in a camera but those needs must be very well served. I consider the interface on most modern cameras a 'workaround' to the fundamental functioning of a the photographic process. My take anyway. The stuff that really bothers me might be trivial to many but its important to me and I have enough experience to know that that won't be changing soon, if ever.

FWIW I will NEVER shoot video...been there done that...and years ago I rejected the a900 because I didn't need the 'high speed' 5 FPS burst rate. (personally I need to approach 10FPS to utilize a good workable burst)

We all look at a purchase differently. After I choose lenses, my first thought with a camera is what does if feel like in my hands, then how it handles and if it has adequate functionality and last, the image quality.

What this boils down to is that the 18-135 f4.0 suits me in cost, image quality, weight, and aperture. The a6000 physical interface is marginal but I reserve the right to delve into its questionable deficiencies to see if my hesitation is really valid or imaginary.

Bruce

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