D610 and "D" lenses - how compatible?

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
Ray Sachs
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D610 and "D" lenses - how compatible?
7 months ago

So I've been shooting with a loaner Df and shooting only small, cheap "D" prime lenses. I figured this was a good match because the lower resolution of the Df sensor wouldn't expose the warts of the cheaper glass like a higher res D610 would, let alone something like the D800. But I've decided I'm going to be buying a Nikon full frame and I'm wondering just how well the D610 would do with them. I love the low light capability of the Df, but I've spent the past year shooting with the RX1, which shares a sensor with the D610 and I was basically very happy with the low light capability of that sensor. The Zeiss lens in the RX1 is simply amazing though, probably an order of magnitude nicer than the "D" lenses I've been shooting with. My primary purpose of moving to a DSLR is getting close to the IQ of the RX1 with a mix of small primes, rather than just one. There are features of the Df that I don't really use or care about much and I wouldn't exactly MIND saving $600-700 when I turn in the Df loaner and buy something. So I'm wondering:

Would the higher res sensor of the D610 make the "D" glass look that much sharper or would it merely expose the relative weakness of those lenses?

I'm pretty committed to staying with small prime lenses - jumping from small mirrorless cameras to a DSLR is a bigger leap than I'd considered at all until recently and I'm sticking to m43 for longer and ultra-wide lenses, where the size advantage is pretty overwhelming. But if the D610 is going to work well with the "D" glass, I may well go for that rather than a Df.

So has anyone shot back to back with these two bodies with some of these lenses that can share any thoughts? I'm probably going with some combination of the 20, 24, 28, 35, 50, and 85 - probably at least three and maybe four of them. I'm absolutely NOT interested in getting into really high end glass, both because of the size/weight and cost.

I've been happy with the sharpness of these lenses shooting with the Df, but it's not the same as the RX1. Would the D610 be that much sharper with those lenses or would it just make the softness of the lenses more apparent?

While I'm on it, two other quick questions about the D610:

1. I assume it works fine using the aperture rings on these lenses rather than one of the control dials?

2. If you're not using both control dials for shutter speed and aperture, is it possible to assign one to exposure compensation so you don't have to always hold down the exposure comp button to adjust it - just have one dial always armed and ready to change exposure?

Thanks in advance for any input...

-Ray
--------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

Nikon D610 Nikon D800 Nikon Df Sony RX1
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romfordbluenose
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Re: D610 and "D" lenses - how compatible?
In reply to Ray Sachs, 7 months ago

D lens work fine.

I suggest you download a copy of the user manual from the Nikon website and read up on the camera. It will answer your questions and a lot more.

1. No, 2. Yes

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Ray Sachs
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Re: D610 and "D" lenses - how compatible?
In reply to romfordbluenose, 7 months ago

romfordbluenose wrote:

D lens work fine.

Thanks.

I suggest you download a copy of the user manual from the Nikon website and read up on the camera. It will answer your questions and a lot more.

I really don't have many, but if I get close to doing this, I will.

1. No, 2. Yes

Wow, you really can't use the aperture rings? That's the ONE part of the Df's retro interface that I really like a lot - always have. I just realize it was unique to the Df - I sort of assumed it was possible with any of the current bodies. That's almost a deal breaker right there.

Thanks for the information...

-Ray
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Stacey_K
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Re: D610 and "D" lenses - how compatible?
In reply to Ray Sachs, 7 months ago

You left out the main criteria, what is the output? Are you wanting to make 8X10 prints? 30X40 inch prints? Display online? Pixel peep at 100%?

And not all "D" lenses have the same optical IQ. Some are better than others. It also depends if you plan to use them stopped down to F8-f11 or use them wide open.

Any of them will work fine on the 610 body either using the aperture ring or controlling them with the camera dial, depending on some menu settings.

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Stacey

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MRM4350
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Re: D610 and "D" lenses - how compatible?
In reply to romfordbluenose, 7 months ago

romfordbluenose wrote:

1. No, 2. Yes

1. Yes

2. Yes

1. Like all models from the D7000 and above (including D200, D300) there is a setting in the custom menus for 'Controls' that allows use of the aperture ring on AF lenses that have them.

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Stacey_K
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Re: D610 and "D" lenses - how compatible?
In reply to Ray Sachs, 7 months ago

Ray Sachs wrote:

romfordbluenose wrote:

D lens work fine.

Thanks.

I suggest you download a copy of the user manual from the Nikon website and read up on the camera. It will answer your questions and a lot more.

I really don't have many, but if I get close to doing this, I will.

1. No, 2. Yes

Wow, you really can't use the aperture rings?

Yes you can use the rings, a menu setting allows you to chose ring or dial. This is NOT a DF only thing, my D200 and D7000 both have this capability.

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Ray Sachs
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Re: D610 and "D" lenses - how compatible?
In reply to Stacey_K, 7 months ago

Stacey_K wrote:

You left out the main criteria, what is the output? Are you wanting to make 8X10 prints? 30X40 inch prints? Display online? Pixel peep at 100%?

I rarely print larger than 12x18, occasionally 20x30. I try not to pixel peep (because it really doesn't have anything to do with how I actually LOOK at photography), but I'm occasionally guilty anyway if I'm shooting with something that holds up under extreme pixel peeping. That won't be make or break though.

But there's something about resolution - I notice it with the RX1 and to an extreme when I was using a Sigma DPM1 - that make images pop even when displayed at a scale where it shouldn't matter. There's a notable difference in the way the Df and RX1 images display at any consistent size. And frankly I'm torn - I love the smooth creamy look of the Df files but I also like the pop I get from RX1 files, particularly for landscapes. I'm not asking anyone to solve THAT problem for me - I'll just have to decide - I'm just wondering how close the D610 with "D" glass gets to the RX1. Because I suspect a LOT of it is in the RX1's Zeiss lens rather than the sensor - just not sure how much.

And not all "D" lenses have the same optical IQ. Some are better than others. It also depends if you plan to use them stopped down to F8-f11 or use them wide open.

Good to know about the differences - I'd say the 20 and 35 are sure things, either the 24 or 28, and probably the 50. I see the sweet spot is in that f5.6-f11 range, but I want to be able to use them wide open as well in low light. And I realize that's where their weaknesses are most pronounced. The RX1 is pretty extraordinary wide open and I love that about it, but I don't expect that kind of performance from the DSLR setup I'm working on.

Any of them will work fine on the 610 body either using the aperture ring or controlling them with the camera dial, depending on some menu settings.

Good to know, and what I suspected. But that earlier poster scared me a bit. I had to make that change in the menu to get it work on the Df also - it's not a default setting. Glad to hear the same is available on the other bodies...

-Ray
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Stacey_K
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Re: D610 and "D" lenses - how compatible?
In reply to Ray Sachs, 7 months ago

Ray Sachs wrote:

 Because I suspect a LOT of it is in the RX1's Zeiss lens rather than the sensor - just not sure how much.

Probably a lot. The D series wides aren't known to be "rock star" performers, especially wide open. I suggest you do a bit of reading at photozone on these lenses. I'm not sure why you want to change from this RX1 if you like the results so much..

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Ray Sachs
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Re: D610 and "D" lenses - how compatible?
In reply to Stacey_K, 7 months ago

Stacey_K wrote:

Ray Sachs wrote:

Because I suspect a LOT of it is in the RX1's Zeiss lens rather than the sensor - just not sure how much.

Probably a lot. The D series wides aren't known to be "rock star" performers, especially wide open. I suggest you do a bit of reading at photozone on these lenses. I'm not sure why you want to change from this RX1 if you like the results so much..

Pretty simple - just want more focal lengths than one. If the A7 had a 24 or 28 and something wider, I'd probably go that direction. And might someday. But not just to replace the 35 with a lesser 35 and a great 55 (which isn't a particularly favorite focal length of mine).

And don't get me wrong - I like the results from the Df just as much but in a different way. Just trying to assess where (presumably somewhere in the middle) the D610 would fall with the same lenses.

Thanks for the input. I didn't expect anyone could fully answer it for me, but the input so far has been useful...

-Ray
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gotompoes
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Re: D610 and "D" lenses - how compatible?
In reply to Ray Sachs, 7 months ago

Ray Sachs wrote:

So I've been shooting with a loaner Df and shooting only small, cheap "D" prime lenses. I figured this was a good match because the lower resolution of the Df sensor wouldn't expose the warts of the cheaper glass like a higher res D610 would, let alone something like the D800. But I've decided I'm going to be buying a Nikon full frame and I'm wondering just how well the D610 would do with them. I love the low light capability of the Df, but I've spent the past year shooting with the RX1, which shares a sensor with the D610 and I was basically very happy with the low light capability of that sensor. The Zeiss lens in the RX1 is simply amazing though, probably an order of magnitude nicer than the "D" lenses I've been shooting with. My primary purpose of moving to a DSLR is getting close to the IQ of the RX1 with a mix of small primes, rather than just one. There are features of the Df that I don't really use or care about much and I wouldn't exactly MIND saving $600-700 when I turn in the Df loaner and buy something. So I'm wondering:

Would the higher res sensor of the D610 make the "D" glass look that much sharper or would it merely expose the relative weakness of those lenses?

I'm pretty committed to staying with small prime lenses - jumping from small mirrorless cameras to a DSLR is a bigger leap than I'd considered at all until recently and I'm sticking to m43 for longer and ultra-wide lenses, where the size advantage is pretty overwhelming. But if the D610 is going to work well with the "D" glass, I may well go for that rather than a Df.

So has anyone shot back to back with these two bodies with some of these lenses that can share any thoughts? I'm probably going with some combination of the 20, 24, 28, 35, 50, and 85 - probably at least three and maybe four of them. I'm absolutely NOT interested in getting into really high end glass, both because of the size/weight and cost.

I've been happy with the sharpness of these lenses shooting with the Df, but it's not the same as the RX1. Would the D610 be that much sharper with those lenses or would it just make the softness of the lenses more apparent?

While I'm on it, two other quick questions about the D610:

1. I assume it works fine using the aperture rings on these lenses rather than one of the control dials?

2. If you're not using both control dials for shutter speed and aperture, is it possible to assign one to exposure compensation so you don't have to always hold down the exposure comp button to adjust it - just have one dial always armed and ready to change exposure?

Thanks in advance for any input...

-Ray
--------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

I am in the same boat by trying the prime lenses as small as possible.

Possibly this link will be of any help.

http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Best-lenses-for-Df-Prime-and-Zoom-lens-overview/Best-prime-lenses-for-the-Nikon-Df
Currently i am using the 50 mm 1.4 D and the 85 mm 1.8 D on my DF

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sgoldswo
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Re: D610 and "D" lenses - how compatible?
In reply to Ray Sachs, 7 months ago

Ray Sachs wrote:

So I've been shooting with a loaner Df and shooting only small, cheap "D" prime lenses. I figured this was a good match because the lower resolution of the Df sensor wouldn't expose the warts of the cheaper glass like a higher res D610 would, let alone something like the D800. But I've decided I'm going to be buying a Nikon full frame and I'm wondering just how well the D610 would do with them. I love the low light capability of the Df, but I've spent the past year shooting with the RX1, which shares a sensor with the D610 and I was basically very happy with the low light capability of that sensor. The Zeiss lens in the RX1 is simply amazing though, probably an order of magnitude nicer than the "D" lenses I've been shooting with. My primary purpose of moving to a DSLR is getting close to the IQ of the RX1 with a mix of small primes, rather than just one. There are features of the Df that I don't really use or care about much and I wouldn't exactly MIND saving $600-700 when I turn in the Df loaner and buy something. So I'm wondering:

Would the higher res sensor of the D610 make the "D" glass look that much sharper or would it merely expose the relative weakness of those lenses?

I'm pretty committed to staying with small prime lenses - jumping from small mirrorless cameras to a DSLR is a bigger leap than I'd considered at all until recently and I'm sticking to m43 for longer and ultra-wide lenses, where the size advantage is pretty overwhelming. But if the D610 is going to work well with the "D" glass, I may well go for that rather than a Df.

So has anyone shot back to back with these two bodies with some of these lenses that can share any thoughts? I'm probably going with some combination of the 20, 24, 28, 35, 50, and 85 - probably at least three and maybe four of them. I'm absolutely NOT interested in getting into really high end glass, both because of the size/weight and cost.

I've been happy with the sharpness of these lenses shooting with the Df, but it's not the same as the RX1. Would the D610 be that much sharper with those lenses or would it just make the softness of the lenses more apparent?

While I'm on it, two other quick questions about the D610:

1. I assume it works fine using the aperture rings on these lenses rather than one of the control dials?

2. If you're not using both control dials for shutter speed and aperture, is it possible to assign one to exposure compensation so you don't have to always hold down the exposure comp button to adjust it - just have one dial always armed and ready to change exposure?

Thanks in advance for any input...

-Ray
--------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

Ray,

Your two last questions are easy enough to answer as yes to both, but as someone who sold his D600 to buy his Df, I'm in two minds as to what to tell you to do here. Nothing wrong with the D600/10 really:

Pros: a great sensor, light, small (for a DSLR), and works well. For me an additional plus was that it had the same batteries as the D800E I also own.

Cons: It wasn't a Df!  It had conventional controls, it didn't have the Df sensor, it didn't have the D800 AF (but neither did the Df), he AA sensor seemed much stronger than the equivalent on the Sony cameras that use the same sensor (RX1 etc).

The cons are all quibbling really - the D600 is a great camera. The real reason I went for the Df is that it had better high ISO ability and the dial based controls. It basically replaced both my D600 and my X-Pro1. In the months of use since though, I've come to appreciate the quality of the 16mp sensor more and more. Leica should have used it in the M240 - the images are simply beautiful.

As to using D lenses, which are traditionally a bit weaker in the corners, yes, a higher MP sensor shows that a bit more (some of them look really weak on my D800E). If that's really an issue (and cost is too) a second hand D700 (which is still a fine camera, if a bit larger) would look even better with the D lenses than the Df. If you are tempted to buy a D610 and might use something other than D lenses the recent G 18-35 (not the old version) rocks on the D600/10.

Best

Simon

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Rservello
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Re: D610 and "D" lenses - how compatible?
In reply to Ray Sachs, 7 months ago

Wow, you really can't use the aperture rings? That's the ONE part of the Df's retro interface that I really like a lot - always have. I just realize it was unique to the Df - I sort of assumed it was possible with any of the current bodies. That's almost a deal breaker right there.

Thanks for the information...

-Ray
--------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

Yes you can. You have to go into the settings and enable aperture ring adjustment. Works fine on my 50mm 1.8d.

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Ray Sachs
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Re: D610 and "D" lenses - how compatible?
In reply to gotompoes, 7 months ago

gotompoes wrote:

Ray Sachs wrote:

So I've been shooting with a loaner Df and shooting only small, cheap "D" prime lenses. I figured this was a good match because the lower resolution of the Df sensor wouldn't expose the warts of the cheaper glass like a higher res D610 would, let alone something like the D800. But I've decided I'm going to be buying a Nikon full frame and I'm wondering just how well the D610 would do with them. I love the low light capability of the Df, but I've spent the past year shooting with the RX1, which shares a sensor with the D610 and I was basically very happy with the low light capability of that sensor. The Zeiss lens in the RX1 is simply amazing though, probably an order of magnitude nicer than the "D" lenses I've been shooting with. My primary purpose of moving to a DSLR is getting close to the IQ of the RX1 with a mix of small primes, rather than just one. There are features of the Df that I don't really use or care about much and I wouldn't exactly MIND saving $600-700 when I turn in the Df loaner and buy something. So I'm wondering:

Would the higher res sensor of the D610 make the "D" glass look that much sharper or would it merely expose the relative weakness of those lenses?

I'm pretty committed to staying with small prime lenses - jumping from small mirrorless cameras to a DSLR is a bigger leap than I'd considered at all until recently and I'm sticking to m43 for longer and ultra-wide lenses, where the size advantage is pretty overwhelming. But if the D610 is going to work well with the "D" glass, I may well go for that rather than a Df.

So has anyone shot back to back with these two bodies with some of these lenses that can share any thoughts? I'm probably going with some combination of the 20, 24, 28, 35, 50, and 85 - probably at least three and maybe four of them. I'm absolutely NOT interested in getting into really high end glass, both because of the size/weight and cost.

I've been happy with the sharpness of these lenses shooting with the Df, but it's not the same as the RX1. Would the D610 be that much sharper with those lenses or would it just make the softness of the lenses more apparent?

While I'm on it, two other quick questions about the D610:

1. I assume it works fine using the aperture rings on these lenses rather than one of the control dials?

2. If you're not using both control dials for shutter speed and aperture, is it possible to assign one to exposure compensation so you don't have to always hold down the exposure comp button to adjust it - just have one dial always armed and ready to change exposure?

Thanks in advance for any input...

-Ray
--------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

I am in the same boat by trying the prime lenses as small as possible.

Possibly this link will be of any help.

http://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Best-lenses-for-Df-Prime-and-Zoom-lens-overview/Best-prime-lenses-for-the-Nikon-Df

Thanks. Not too encouraging for the lenses I'm using, but that's not a surprise.

Currently i am using the 50 mm 1.4 D and the 85 mm 1.8 D on my DF

I've been using the 24mm f2.8 and 35mm f2.0 and have tried out the 20mm f2.8 and 58mm f1.8. I think I'm gonna stick with my m43 gear for portrait length and longer, so I don't think I'll go for the 58mm. The other's I'm happy enough with as long as I'm not pixel peeping too closely. I'm just not sure if I'd be as happy with them shooting with a D610...

-Ray
--------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

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Ray Sachs
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Re: D610 and "D" lenses - how compatible?
In reply to sgoldswo, 7 months ago

sgoldswo wrote:

Your two last questions are easy enough to answer as yes to both, but as someone who sold his D600 to buy his Df, I'm in two minds as to what to tell you to do here. Nothing wrong with the D600/10 really:

Pros: a great sensor, light, small (for a DSLR), and works well. For me an additional plus was that it had the same batteries as the D800E I also own.

Right, I'm assuming it's about a wash in terms of size and weight, based on everything I've seen.

Cons: It wasn't a Df! It had conventional controls, it didn't have the Df sensor, it didn't have the D800 AF (but neither did the Df), he AA sensor seemed much stronger than the equivalent on the Sony cameras that use the same sensor (RX1 etc).

The controls I'm pretty sure I'd be OK with, the AF for sure I'd be OK with. The sensor is the only question and the AA filter is a piece of information I hadn't really considered, so that's helpful. On the one hand, it means it might do better with the D lenses. OTOH, it doesn't move as much closer to the RX1 in terms of pop/sharpness.

The cons are all quibbling really - the D600 is a great camera. The real reason I went for the Df is that it had better high ISO ability and the dial based controls. It basically replaced both my D600 and my X-Pro1. In the months of use since though, I've come to appreciate the quality of the 16mp sensor more and more. Leica should have used it in the M240 - the images are simply beautiful.

Yeah, I like that sensor a lot already. I'm just not sure I wouldn't like the D610 sensor a bit better in good light, and a bit less in low light. But the lenses might negate, at least partially, any advantage in good light. As might the AA filter.

As to using D lenses, which are traditionally a bit weaker in the corners, yes, a higher MP sensor shows that a bit more (some of them look really weak on my D800E). If that's really an issue (and cost is too) a second hand D700 (which is still a fine camera, if a bit larger) would look even better with the D lenses than the Df. If you are tempted to buy a D610 and might use something other than D lenses the recent G 18-35 (not the old version) rocks on the D600/10.

I'm pretty sure I'm either going with the Df or D610 - I don't want to go backwards a generation in sensor and high ISO capability. And while the D700 looks similar in terms of size, it appears to be notably heavier than either the Df or 610...

Thanks for your thoughts Simon. As someone who's shot a lot of the same gear I have, it's quite helpful...

-Ray
--------------------------------------
http://www.flickr.com/photos/20889767@N05/

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