Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7

Started 5 months ago | Discussions
PVCdroid
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Re: A6000 obsoletes NEX-7
In reply to wb2trf, 4 months ago

AF, sensor, and processor advantages. wifi advantages

Tri- navi is just a style thing that may never return.  Then there are N7 lovers who don't want to see the truth and hang out on these forums.

You forgot the kitchen sink. No doubt this should be a nice camera but I think there should be something better. I wish Sony the best and do hope this camera is a success and that the gauge is present after all. There is also the image quality from the new sensor that is yet to be proven.

BTW, NEX-7 owners can take it and receive much worse criticism from posters.:-)

Good luck.

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GaryW
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to louisjaffe, 4 months ago

louisjaffe wrote:

Not to minimize others' concerns, but by far the most important question to me is whether the A6000 will do better in low light than the NEX-7. Lenses good enough to take full advantage of the NEX-7 sensor are rare enough, but with them, at low ISO, it's a phenomenal image maker. Above 800 ISO, though, the noise is hard to handle. If I could gain one stop or more of low-light ability with the new camera, I'd buy one and keep the 7 as a second body. - LJ

Even with the older cameras, you might be surprised what you can do from RAW. Carefully balance how much NR to use, and you may feel like you can get another stop out of it. Well, worth looking into. Also, a bit of noise isn't a big deal. Try printing larger and see.

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Gary W.

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GaryW
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Re: re: also missing (continuing the CONS list)
In reply to jpr2, 4 months ago

jpr2 wrote:

...

5. still only 1/160 sec. flash sync;

What about HSS?

6. which in conjunction with still no 1/8000 sec. minimal shutter speed is a bit tough to understand;

7. default 1/60 sec. which is automatically supplied by FW is way too long !!

I use p-shift on my Nex-6 -- easy to override the camera's selection.

jpr2

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Gary W.

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Euell
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to GaryW, 4 months ago

GaryW wrote:

louisjaffe wrote:

Not to minimize others' concerns, but by far the most important question to me is whether the A6000 will do better in low light than the NEX-7. Lenses good enough to take full advantage of the NEX-7 sensor are rare enough, but with them, at low ISO, it's a phenomenal image maker. Above 800 ISO, though, the noise is hard to handle. If I could gain one stop or more of low-light ability with the new camera, I'd buy one and keep the 7 as a second body. - LJ

Even with the older cameras, you might be surprised what you can do from RAW. Carefully balance how much NR to use, and you may feel like you can get another stop out of it. Well, worth looking into. Also, a bit of noise isn't a big deal. Try printing larger and see.

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Gary W.

Remarkably, the NEX 6 can be useful even at ISO 3200 for medium sized prints with judicious noise reduction.

BTW, the A6000 is projected to arrive at major U.S. retailers April 23rd.  No doubt there will be answers to many questions within a few days thereafter.

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Euell
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Re: A6000 obsoletes NEX-7
In reply to PVCdroid, 4 months ago

PVCdroid wrote:

AF, sensor, and processor advantages. wifi advantages

Tri- navi is just a style thing that may never return. Then there are N7 lovers who don't want to see the truth and hang out on these forums.

You forgot the kitchen sink. No doubt this should be a nice camera but I think there should be something better. I wish Sony the best and do hope this camera is a success and that the gauge is present after all. There is also the image quality from the new sensor that is yet to be proven.

BTW, NEX-7 owners can take it and receive much worse criticism from posters.:-)

Good luck.

It is a given that there will be an upgrade following the A6000, because that is the way things work (assuming Sony does not go out of the APSc camera business). So, a satisfied NEX 7 owner might well come to the conclusion that it is better to wait for the next iteration if the new features of the A6000 do not make that much difference to him or her. On the other hand, while it may be assumed that the the successor to the A6000 will be an upgrade, even Sony probably has only a vague general idea of a future roll out date or proposed upgraded features. World economic conditions and company fortunes can play a part in such decisions, as well as marketing considerations.

One thing that may be of concern is shutter life.  I have not seen any numbers respecting the number of actuations that may be expected from NEX shutters.

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louisjaffe
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to GaryW, 4 months ago

GaryW wrote:

louisjaffe wrote:

Not to minimize others' concerns, but by far the most important question to me is whether the A6000 will do better in low light than the NEX-7. Lenses good enough to take full advantage of the NEX-7 sensor are rare enough, but with them, at low ISO, it's a phenomenal image maker. Above 800 ISO, though, the noise is hard to handle. If I could gain one stop or more of low-light ability with the new camera, I'd buy one and keep the 7 as a second body. - LJ

Even with the older cameras, you might be surprised what you can do from RAW. Carefully balance how much NR to use, and you may feel like you can get another stop out of it. Well, worth looking into. Also, a bit of noise isn't a big deal. Try printing larger and see.

I routinely shoot RAW and process with Adobe Camera Raw. It is true, as you say, that the noise isn't always a big deal, due to good color depth, plenty of pixels, etc. I do find, though, that Camera Raw struggles with NEX-7 noise, compared to other cameras I work with. At high ISO the 7 doesn't seem as amenable to noise reduction. Given bright light the camera is already excellent; I'm just hoping Sony will pull out more headroom for dim light. - LJ

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GaryW
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to Euell, 4 months ago

Euell wrote:

GaryW wrote:

louisjaffe wrote:

Not to minimize others' concerns, but by far the most important question to me is whether the A6000 will do better in low light than the NEX-7. ...If I could gain one stop or more of low-light ability with the new camera, I'd buy one and keep the 7 as a second body. - LJ

Just to re-iterate, you're not going to get 1 whole stop from one generation update of a sensor, particularly these days. I'm sure all of the big gains have been made.  Unless you want to move to a FF sensor, then you have an easy 1 stop gain.

Even with the older cameras, you might be surprised what you can do from RAW. Carefully balance how much NR to use, and you may feel like you can get another stop out of it. Well, worth looking into. Also, a bit of noise isn't a big deal. Try printing larger and see.

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Gary W.

Remarkably, the NEX 6 can be useful even at ISO 3200 for medium sized prints with judicious noise reduction.

I printed a number of photos at 5x7, and really, I couldn't tell what ISO the photos were taken with.  I also couldn't tell which were at f2.8, etc.  Now, if I wanted the highest quality, of course I'd want to watch the ISO, etc., but I'd bet I could take an ISO 3200 photo from RAW and print at 8x10 without much issue.  Would it be enough for a stock photo service? Maybe not, but the quality I'm getting is so high compared to years past, I am concerned less and less.   Cries about noise and soft corners seem to be more and more obsessive.  The last time I went back to my P&S I bought almost a decade ago, I noticed that it had soft corners that were noticeable at its 7mp.  But, I could often get good prints up to 8x10 (11x14 was a stretch).  I probably get better ISO 3200 now than I did then at 400.

BTW, the A6000 is projected to arrive at major U.S. retailers April 23rd. No doubt there will be answers to many questions within a few days thereafter.

Yup. We get to endure two more months of speculation until then.  Yay.

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Gary W.

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captura
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Re: re: also missing (continuing the CONS list)
In reply to jpr2, 4 months ago

jpr2 wrote:

plasnu wrote:

I checked 6000 at Sony Store in Tokyo, and I can confirm that 6000 is the best E mount ever made. I don't think someone would choose 7 over 6000 even if they are the same price, but 6000 is actually cheaper.

Positive

1. Faster and too good to be true follow focus.

2. Much faster operation. Powers up much faster, too.

3. Better looking EVF than Nex 6/7, even it is lower resolution. No problem with eyeglasses.

4. Gapless micro lens should lower noise ratio.

5. Way better jpeg, I think.

6. Price.

Negative

1. Looks considerably cheaper than Nex 7. Unmistakably Plastic.

2. I could tell EVF is lower resolution.

3. No Tri Navi.

4. No Level (Confirmed).

5. still only 1/160 sec. flash sync;

6. which in conjunction with still no 1/8000 sec. minimal shutter speed is a bit tough to understand;

7. default 1/60 sec. which is automatically supplied by FW is way too long !!

jpr2

I'll wait until the A6000 to arrive to do a comparison. A couple of Nikon 1 models still beat the A6000 in AF and tracking, in some respects. The biggest difference is the A6000's larger buffer.

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Euell
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to PVCdroid, 4 months ago

PVCdroid wrote:

PVCdroid wrote:

Euell wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

Euell wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

OpticsEngineer wrote:

much faster AF on the A6000

can you say that with my Sigma AF lenses?

Probably not any slower.

but whats the point of changing if it isn't actually faster? seriously, if you take away the faster AF what does the A6000 offer that I don't already have? and what would I loose like the EVF resolution and no mic input?

seriously, at this point we don't even know which sensor is better - at low ISO without the pdaf pixels there is a very reasonable chance that the NEX-7 sensor might actually perform better

If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you. The NEX 7 is way out of date now. Technology does not move backwards. The A6000 would not sell if bested by a much older model, now would it?

A big deficit for me at this point is the lack of a leveling gauge on the A6000. I was all on board a couple days ago to get one but am now waiting to see if this feature is really missing. The A3000 and A5000 have it but there is no example image/screen shot out there showing the gauge so far and the specs from the published manual indicate it's gone. It doesn't make sense and I hope it's just an oversight or the prototype didn't have it for display yet.

Per a customer support chat session just now, the level gauge is gone on the A6000. Too bad and I must be one of the few that rely on this feature. Other posters here seem disinterested in this capability.

Question:

I'm interested in the A6000 but can't find that it has a leveling gauge for the LCD. Both the A3000 and A5000 have this feature. Can you confirm that it IS NOT on this new camera?

Answer:

Upon checking the a6000 has no digital level gauge.

Strange indeed. This German site http://www.mhohner.de/sony-minolta/onebody/ilce-6000 fully specs out the camera with a level gauge and another site references a Hong Kong site that lists a level gauge as well. Wouldn't count on the customer support person, who may just be uninformed. Whom can you trust these days?

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PVCdroid
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Re: re: also missing (continuing the CONS list)
In reply to GaryW, 4 months ago

GaryW wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...

5. still only 1/160 sec. flash sync;

What about HSS?

6. which in conjunction with still no 1/8000 sec. minimal shutter speed is a bit tough to understand;

7. default 1/60 sec. which is automatically supplied by FW is way too long !!

I use p-shift on my Nex-6 -- easy to override the camera's selection.

jpr2

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Gary W.

Gary,

Can you expand on this? The only way I can get an override for the shutter speed with flash in P shift is to increase the ISO. In aperture priority, I can't get anything more than 1/60th shutter speed even with ISO adjustments. In shutter priority, I can get the camera with flash to 1/160th without adjusting ISO.

Pat

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KBKB
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Re: A6000 obsoletes NEX-7
In reply to wb2trf, 4 months ago

wb2trf wrote:

Tri- navi is just a style thing that may never return. Then there are N7 lovers who don't want to see the truth and hang out on these forums.

While I do like the Tri-Navi interface, I could also be happy with some other interface that allows me to adjust all three exposure parameters in manual mode with only a twist of a knob or dial.  The A6000 just needs an extra knob/dial added somewhere...

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lucrob
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to plasnu, 4 months ago

If the A6000 is the composite body you observed, what is the silver version made of?

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jpr2
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re: spot on!!
In reply to KBKB, 4 months ago

KBKB wrote:

While I do like the Tri-Navi interface, I could also be happy with some other interface that allows me to adjust all three exposure parameters in manual mode with only a twist of a knob or dial. The A6000 just needs an extra knob/dial added somewhere...

  • exactly this: either three dials, or two dials + PASM dial; it is not that important which design they'd be following,
  • be it the N7's classic ThreeNav, or the layout taken from A7s - although the latter implies a very awkward placement of the shutter button;
  • what is important to have would be to preserve maximally the flexibility and configurability of ThreeNav - obviously incorporating all the progress and developments in UI from RX-1 and A7s;
  • which a6k seems to be a bit skimpy about

jpr2

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