Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7

Started 5 months ago | Discussions
edwardaneal
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to lenshoarder, 5 months ago

lenshoarder wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

2: my second concern relates to my first - will all of the added PDAF pixels spread across the sensor that give fast focus my lenses can't use have an affect on image quality? will resolution or dynamic range or color depth be hurt?

Short answer no. Look at it like this, the PDF pixels are less than 200 out of 24,000,000. That's 0.0000000083%. So that's at most 0.0000000083% worst. I challenge anyone to be able to discern the difference. You could have more of a problem with dead pixels. You would have more of a problem with dust.

but they all add up - on top of the pdaf pixels you will still have dead pixels and you will still have dust - each thing you take away from actually forming an image just multiplies the problems and if those pdaf pixels don't actually add anything because they won't work with my lenses why add them? or better yet why remove image forming pixels and replace them with AF pixels that don't actually AF with my lenses?

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to edwardaneal, 5 months ago

lenshoarder wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

2: my second concern relates to my first - will all of the added PDAF pixels spread across the sensor that give fast focus my lenses can't use have an affect on image quality? will resolution or dynamic range or color depth be hurt?

Short answer no. Look at it like this, the PDF pixels are less than 200 out of 24,000,000. That's 0.0000000083%. So that's at most 0.0000000083% worst. I challenge anyone to be able to discern the difference. You could have more of a problem with dead pixels. You would have more of a problem with dust.

but they all add up - on top of the pdaf pixels you will still have dead pixels and you will still have dust - each thing you take away from actually forming an image just multiplies the problems and if those pdaf pixels don't actually add anything because they won't work with my lenses why add them? or better yet why remove image forming pixels and replace them with AF pixels that don't actually AF with my lenses?

Well you made the choice to settle for slower AF and in favor of lenses you wanted. This has no bearing on what the a6000 itself is as a camera and improvements it can boast over its predecessor(s). You might see some benefit, or it would be ststus quo (in terms of speed). As for your concerns with IQ, remember, a6000 has a whopping 179 points but that translates to a very tiny fraction in the overall picture that includes 24 million pixels. Put it another way and consider that Canon 70d has half the sensor for PDAF. Is the IQ terrible?

It is always worth considering the pros and cons, not just the cons. There may be more to the sensor that it improves upon while adding PDAF. May be not, but that is exactly why we can't draw conclusions yet.

I also like that a6000 got Zebra and Eye AF handed down fron a7, two features I tried and liked on a7. It also has object tracking abilities (again courtesy of the hybrid PDAF) which may abe yet another benefit you'd have at hand if you so choose as many will.

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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to 1prime, 5 months ago

A6000 has so much to offer than NEX-7 right now. I am planning to upgrade to A6000 due to the following reasons.

1) New Bionz X processor, 2) An updated 24MP sensor, 3) A new and advance Hybrid AF system, Zebra pattern, Wifi and NFC (also not in NEX-7), and finally all that features for only $650 body. Which is amazing. I remember paying $1000 for my NEX-7.

1prime wrote:

I realize the upcoming A6000 will be a NEX-6 extension, but with the BIONZ processer and a newer but similar to NEX-7 size 24.3MP sensor.

I wonder if any reviewers who have checked out the A6000 would have comparisons of the 7 & 60000. I'm sure the 6000 will have a 6-like composite body. Will the 6000 come close to or surpass the 7? And, if so, in which ways?

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1prime

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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to 1prime, 5 months ago

1prime wrote:

I realize the upcoming A6000 will be a NEX-6 extension, but with the BIONZ processer and a newer but similar to NEX-7 size 24.3MP sensor.

I wonder if any reviewers who have checked out the A6000 would have comparisons of the 7 & 60000. I'm sure the 6000 will have a 6-like composite body. Will the 6000 come close to or surpass the 7? And, if so, in which ways?

-- hide signature --

1prime

I have NEX-5N, NEX-6, NEX-7.
I will buy the A6000 as soon as it will be available... but:
I have my doubts about Sony's camera development.. from my point of view, NEX-5N and NEX-7 were a unrivaled class of cameras, what Sony did later is another thing..

I think NEX-5N is the best 16Mpx NEX, for now NEX-7 is the best 24 Mpx NEX.

All the new things: PDAF, Bionz-x superior ? jpeg processor, selective noise reduction, diffraction correction, etc., from their implementation in existing NEX, Alpha and A cameras are not so clear improvements.

In addition, all the trade offs in materials, EVF, Screen quality kind of convince me that NEX-5N and NEX-7 will remain .. legends..

Just my opinion.

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BlueRoomElectronics
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to 5nex7, 5 months ago

I'm also ready to pick up an A6000 as soon as they hit the stores on April 30. I see it as more a NEX 6 replacement, IMHO the A7 is the logical successor to the NEX 7 and the A5000 appears to be targeted at the 5 series.

I can't say goodbye to the NEX style menus fast enough.

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pew pew
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to nevercat, 5 months ago

nevercat wrote:

They are asking a higher price for that camera as it is a better camera. The price will probably drop when the A6000 is in the shops...

Hera are some extra things that might be important to you:

The A6000 has these features that the Nex 7 has not:
WIFI and NFC
APPs (to add new features to your camera)
USB control from your PC
11 F/ps burst mode with full resolution
ISO range up to 25600 (compared to 16000 for the Nex 7)
Zebra pattern
Clean HDMI out
BIONZ X processor with some extras, like difraction correction and inteligent noise reduction

add to that

steadyshot in video good for non is lens

selective focus speed for smooth video transitions

new menu, the old menus are kinda lame imo.

comes in silver

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to 5nex7, 5 months ago

1prime wrote:

I realize the upcoming A6000 will be a NEX-6 extension, but with the BIONZ processer and a newer but similar to NEX-7 size 24.3MP sensor.

I wonder if any reviewers who have checked out the A6000 would have comparisons of the 7 & 60000. I'm sure the 6000 will have a 6-like composite body. Will the 6000 come close to or surpass the 7? And, if so, in which ways?

-- hide signature --

1prime

I have NEX-5N, NEX-6, NEX-7.
I will buy the A6000 as soon as it will be available... but:
I have my doubts about Sony's camera development.. from my point of view, NEX-5N and NEX-7 were a unrivaled class of cameras, what Sony did later is another thing..

I think NEX-5N is the best 16Mpx NEX, for now NEX-7 is the best 24 Mpx NEX.

All the new things: PDAF, Bionz-x superior ? jpeg processor, selective noise reduction, diffraction correction, etc., from their implementation in existing NEX, Alpha and A cameras are not so clear improvements.

In addition, all the trade offs in materials, EVF, Screen quality kind of convince me that NEX-5N and NEX-7 will remain .. legends..

Just my opinion.

Don't look at a6000 doing what 5N and 7 brought at the time. Look at how, or whether, 6000 improves upon them.

-It gets you the resolution of NEX-7 (possibly with better high ISO performance), and at half the price.
-It costs as much as NEX-5N but also includes the new features and most importantly an integrated EVF. It was this aspect that made NEX-6 popular (not as expensive as NEX-7, and not as handicapped as 5R).
-It promises to address two of the biggest issues that have plagued NEX cameras: AF speed, Tracking and User Interface.
-While NEX-6/7 also had 10 fps burst, they were handicapped by tiny buffer and inability to track focus. The a6000 promises significant improvement.
-Other features (WiFi, NFC, Apps, Eye AF, Object Tracking, AF-C settings for video vs stills, active stabilization for video) etc are additional bonuses.
- Did I mention body only $650?

If that isn't impressive, I am not sure what Sony would have to do at the price point to make it legendary. Reduce its bottomline, if not sell them at a loss?

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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, 5 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

1prime wrote:

I realize the upcoming A6000 will be a NEX-6 extension, but with the BIONZ processer and a newer but similar to NEX-7 size 24.3MP sensor.

I wonder if any reviewers who have checked out the A6000 would have comparisons of the 7 & 60000. I'm sure the 6000 will have a 6-like composite body. Will the 6000 come close to or surpass the 7? And, if so, in which ways?

-- hide signature --

1prime

I have NEX-5N, NEX-6, NEX-7.
I will buy the A6000 as soon as it will be available... but:
I have my doubts about Sony's camera development.. from my point of view, NEX-5N and NEX-7 were a unrivaled class of cameras, what Sony did later is another thing..

I think NEX-5N is the best 16Mpx NEX, for now NEX-7 is the best 24 Mpx NEX.

All the new things: PDAF, Bionz-x superior ? jpeg processor, selective noise reduction, diffraction correction, etc., from their implementation in existing NEX, Alpha and A cameras are not so clear improvements.

In addition, all the trade offs in materials, EVF, Screen quality kind of convince me that NEX-5N and NEX-7 will remain .. legends..

Just my opinion.

Don't look at a6000 doing what 5N and 7 brought at the time. Look at how, or whether, 6000 improves upon them.

-It gets you the resolution of NEX-7 (possibly with better high ISO performance), and at half the price.
-It costs as much as NEX-5N but also includes the new features and most importantly an integrated EVF. It was this aspect that made NEX-6 popular (not as expensive as NEX-7, and not as handicapped as 5R).
-It promises to address two of the biggest issues that have plagued NEX cameras: AF speed, Tracking and User Interface.
-While NEX-6/7 also had 10 fps burst, they were handicapped by tiny buffer and inability to track focus. The a6000 promises significant improvement.
-Other features (WiFi, NFC, Apps, Eye AF, Object Tracking, AF-C settings for video vs stills, active stabilization for video) etc are additional bonuses.
- Did I mention body only $650?

If that isn't impressive, I am not sure what Sony would have to do at the price point to make it legendary. Reduce its bottomline, if not sell them at a loss?

Is your post meant to start a quarrel ? or what ? I said my opinion, I also said will buy the camera as soon as it will hit the shelves. Don't bother talking about what Sony has to do at the price point for me...

Waiting for new brothers..

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PVCdroid
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to edwardaneal, 5 months ago

edwardaneal wrote:

Euell wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

OpticsEngineer wrote:

much faster AF on the A6000

can you say that with my Sigma AF lenses?

Probably not any slower.

but whats the point of changing if it isn't actually faster? seriously, if you take away the faster AF what does the A6000 offer that I don't already have? and what would I loose like the EVF resolution and no mic input?

seriously, at this point we don't even know which sensor is better - at low ISO without the pdaf pixels there is a very reasonable chance that the NEX-7 sensor might actually perform better

One advantage to NEX-7 owners is that the camera is still great and is not being trumped to obsolete status. Let it ride I guess and enjoy what we've got...for now. It doesn't make sense to me to replace the NEX line with only two cameras and I believe that there will be a NEX-7 replacement sometime in the future. I don't know what a NEX-7 will have in terms of resolution, features, etc. but Sony would be kind of silly to only have two RF style replacements with a generally good lens line up for APS-C.

Sony execs tend to make some stupid remarks when asked about their strategy. Yes, they need to put forth good quality FE lenses but to say that's what their focus is while introducing the A6000 is kind of silly. There is room for both APS-C and FF cameras. From Sony exec comments, I sometimes get the impression they believe FF will replace APS-C. I'm sure margins are in favor of FF camera and lens sales but a FF camera is not as easy to shoot for enthusiasts considering narrow DOF.

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edwardaneal
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really Einstein?
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, 5 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

. Put it another way and consider that Canon 70d has half the sensor for PDAF. Is the IQ terrible?

doesn't the Canon like all DSLR's have a separate PDAF sensor?

there is a huge difference between a camera with on sensor PDAF where pixels on the sensor are removed and replaced with focus sensors than a DSLR that has all of the focus sensors in a completely different sensor that is not a part of the image forming sensor

seriously - you do realize that DSLR's have a completely separate focus detect array that is in the bottom of the camera below the mirror - dont you?

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In reply to edwardaneal, 5 months ago

edwardaneal wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

. Put it another way and consider that Canon 70d has half the sensor for PDAF. Is the IQ terrible?

doesn't the Canon like all DSLR's have a separate PDAF sensor?

there is a huge difference between a camera with on sensor PDAF where pixels on the sensor are removed and replaced with focus sensors than a DSLR that has all of the focus sensors in a completely different sensor that is not a part of the image forming sensor

seriously - you do realize that DSLR's have a completely separate focus detect array that is in the bottom of the camera below the mirror - dont you?

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wictred
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Re: really Einstein?
In reply to edwardaneal, 5 months ago

edwardaneal wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

. Put it another way and consider that Canon 70d has half the sensor for PDAF. Is the IQ terrible?

doesn't the Canon like all DSLR's have a separate PDAF sensor?

there is a huge difference between a camera with on sensor PDAF where pixels on the sensor are removed and replaced with focus sensors than a DSLR that has all of the focus sensors in a completely different sensor that is not a part of the image forming sensor

seriously - you do realize that DSLR's have a completely separate focus detect array that is in the bottom of the camera below the mirror - dont you?

The Canon 70D has OSPDAF.

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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to 5nex7, 5 months ago

5nex7 wrote:

Is your post meant to start a quarrel ? or what ? I said my opinion

This is called "discussion" or "talk" if you will (see forum title: Sony Alpha/NEX E-mount Talk)

If you don't want to take part in discussions but just want to "say your opinion" and be done with it, why do you even read replies? Does not make any sense.

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Re: why Euell?
In reply to edwardaneal, 5 months ago

edwardaneal wrote:

when they added pdaf to the 16mp sensor the quality dropped down a bit -

examples please

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: really Einstein?
In reply to edwardaneal, 5 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

. Put it another way and consider that Canon 70d has half the sensor for PDAF. Is the IQ terrible?

doesn't the Canon like all DSLR's have a separate PDAF sensor?

there is a huge difference between a camera with on sensor PDAF where pixels on the sensor are removed and replaced with focus sensors than a DSLR that has all of the focus sensors in a completely different sensor that is not a part of the image forming sensor

seriously - you do realize that DSLR's have a completely separate focus detect array that is in the bottom of the camera below the mirror - dont you?

Canon 70D has half the sensor used for PDAF (that is a key "upgrade"). Canon incorporated the tech to speed LiveView AF for video which is otherwise crippled in a DSLR. For faster AF, it does use the mirror but still the same sensor.

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to 5nex7, 5 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

1prime wrote:

I realize the upcoming A6000 will be a NEX-6 extension, but with the BIONZ processer and a newer but similar to NEX-7 size 24.3MP sensor.

I wonder if any reviewers who have checked out the A6000 would have comparisons of the 7 & 60000. I'm sure the 6000 will have a 6-like composite body. Will the 6000 come close to or surpass the 7? And, if so, in which ways?

-- hide signature --

1prime

I have NEX-5N, NEX-6, NEX-7.
I will buy the A6000 as soon as it will be available... but:
I have my doubts about Sony's camera development.. from my point of view, NEX-5N and NEX-7 were a unrivaled class of cameras, what Sony did later is another thing..

I think NEX-5N is the best 16Mpx NEX, for now NEX-7 is the best 24 Mpx NEX.

All the new things: PDAF, Bionz-x superior ? jpeg processor, selective noise reduction, diffraction correction, etc., from their implementation in existing NEX, Alpha and A cameras are not so clear improvements.

In addition, all the trade offs in materials, EVF, Screen quality kind of convince me that NEX-5N and NEX-7 will remain .. legends..

Just my opinion.

Don't look at a6000 doing what 5N and 7 brought at the time. Look at how, or whether, 6000 improves upon them.

-It gets you the resolution of NEX-7 (possibly with better high ISO performance), and at half the price.
-It costs as much as NEX-5N but also includes the new features and most importantly an integrated EVF. It was this aspect that made NEX-6 popular (not as expensive as NEX-7, and not as handicapped as 5R).
-It promises to address two of the biggest issues that have plagued NEX cameras: AF speed, Tracking and User Interface.
-While NEX-6/7 also had 10 fps burst, they were handicapped by tiny buffer and inability to track focus. The a6000 promises significant improvement.
-Other features (WiFi, NFC, Apps, Eye AF, Object Tracking, AF-C settings for video vs stills, active stabilization for video) etc are additional bonuses.
- Did I mention body only $650?

If that isn't impressive, I am not sure what Sony would have to do at the price point to make it legendary. Reduce its bottomline, if not sell them at a loss?

Is your post meant to start a quarrel ? or what ? I said my opinion, I also said will buy the camera as soon as it will hit the shelves. Don't bother talking about what Sony has to do at the price point for me...

Waiting for new brothers..

I meant to start a discussion on the points you made in this thread about how a6000 does not bring anything like 5N and 7 did.

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In reply to PVCdroid, 5 months ago

edwardaneal wrote:

Euell wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

OpticsEngineer wrote:

much faster AF on the A6000

can you say that with my Sigma AF lenses?

Probably not any slower.

but whats the point of changing if it isn't actually faster? seriously, if you take away the faster AF what does the A6000 offer that I don't already have? and what would I loose like the EVF resolution and no mic input?

seriously, at this point we don't even know which sensor is better - at low ISO without the pdaf pixels there is a very reasonable chance that the NEX-7 sensor might actually perform better

One advantage to NEX-7 owners is that the camera is still great and is not being trumped to obsolete status. Let it ride I guess and enjoy what we've got...for now. It doesn't make sense to me to replace the NEX line with only two cameras and I believe that there will be a NEX-7 replacement sometime in the future. I don't know what a NEX-7 will have in terms of resolution, features, etc. but Sony would be kind of silly to only have two RF style replacements with a generally good lens line up for APS-C.

Sony execs tend to make some stupid remarks when asked about their strategy. Yes, they need to put forth good quality FE lenses but to say that's what their focus is while introducing the A6000 is kind of silly. There is room for both APS-C and FF cameras. From Sony exec comments, I sometimes get the impression they believe FF will replace APS-C. I'm sure margins are in favor of FF camera and lens sales but a FF camera is not as easy to shoot for enthusiasts considering narrow DOF.

... but Sony execs have good reasons to not announce their products months before they want to announce. There was a point to the story of geese that laid golden eggs.

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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, 5 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

1prime wrote:

I realize the upcoming A6000 will be a NEX-6 extension, but with the BIONZ processer and a newer but similar to NEX-7 size 24.3MP sensor.

I wonder if any reviewers who have checked out the A6000 would have comparisons of the 7 & 60000. I'm sure the 6000 will have a 6-like composite body. Will the 6000 come close to or surpass the 7? And, if so, in which ways?

-- hide signature --

1prime

I have NEX-5N, NEX-6, NEX-7.
I will buy the A6000 as soon as it will be available... but:
I have my doubts about Sony's camera development.. from my point of view, NEX-5N and NEX-7 were a unrivaled class of cameras, what Sony did later is another thing..

I think NEX-5N is the best 16Mpx NEX, for now NEX-7 is the best 24 Mpx NEX.

All the new things: PDAF, Bionz-x superior ? jpeg processor, selective noise reduction, diffraction correction, etc., from their implementation in existing NEX, Alpha and A cameras are not so clear improvements.

In addition, all the trade offs in materials, EVF, Screen quality kind of convince me that NEX-5N and NEX-7 will remain .. legends..

Just my opinion.

Don't look at a6000 doing what 5N and 7 brought at the time. Look at how, or whether, 6000 improves upon them.

-It gets you the resolution of NEX-7 (possibly with better high ISO performance), and at half the price.
-It costs as much as NEX-5N but also includes the new features and most importantly an integrated EVF. It was this aspect that made NEX-6 popular (not as expensive as NEX-7, and not as handicapped as 5R).
-It promises to address two of the biggest issues that have plagued NEX cameras: AF speed, Tracking and User Interface.
-While NEX-6/7 also had 10 fps burst, they were handicapped by tiny buffer and inability to track focus. The a6000 promises significant improvement.
-Other features (WiFi, NFC, Apps, Eye AF, Object Tracking, AF-C settings for video vs stills, active stabilization for video) etc are additional bonuses.
- Did I mention body only $650?

If that isn't impressive, I am not sure what Sony would have to do at the price point to make it legendary. Reduce its bottomline, if not sell them at a loss?

Is your post meant to start a quarrel ? or what ? I said my opinion, I also said will buy the camera as soon as it will hit the shelves. Don't bother talking about what Sony has to do at the price point for me...

I meant to start a discussion on the points you made in this thread about how a6000 does not bring anything like 5N and 7 did.

This is not what I said. I did not say that "a6000 does not bring anything like 5N and 7 did".. I said that I have my doubts...
... as a matter of fact I said what I had to say..

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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to wictred, 5 months ago

wictred wrote:

5nex7 wrote:

Is your post meant to start a quarrel ? or what ? I said my opinion

This is called "discussion" or "talk" if you will (see forum title: Sony Alpha/NEX E-mount Talk)

If you don't want to take part in discussions but just want to "say your opinion" and be done with it, why do you even read replies?

If you read my post and the "answer" you can see that they are hardly related..

Does not make any sense.

You should have quoted both parts, with their arguments, if you want to play judge here.

 5nex7's gear list:5nex7's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-5N Sony Alpha NEX-7 Sony Alpha NEX-6 Sony a6000 Sony E 18-200mm F3.5-6.3 OSS +54 more
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wictred
Contributing MemberPosts: 902Gear list
Like?
AF lock?
In reply to 1prime, 5 months ago

see http://store.sony.com/mirrorless-dslr-camera-zid27-ILCE6000/B/cat-27-catid-All-Alpha-a6000-Cameras?_t=pfm%3Dcategory

quote:

  • Focus Features : Lock-on AF, Eye AF, Predictive control, Focus lock, AF illuminator (with Built-in LED type) Approx. range; 0.3- approx. 3.0m (with E PZ 16-50mm F3.5-5.6 OSS lens attached)
 wictred's gear list:wictred's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-6 Sony a6000 Sigma 19mm F2.8 EX DN Sony E 35mm F1.8 OSS Sigma 60mm F2.8 DN +3 more
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