Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7

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1prime
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Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
10 months ago

I realize the upcoming A6000 will be a NEX-6 extension, but with the BIONZ processer and a newer but similar to NEX-7 size 24.3MP sensor.

I wonder if any reviewers who have checked out the A6000 would have comparisons of the 7 & 60000.  I'm sure the 6000 will have a 6-like composite body. Will the 6000 come close to or surpass the 7?  And, if so, in which ways?

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1prime

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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to 1prime, 10 months ago

Per Fuji rumours and DP Review the A6000 is a replacement for both Nex 6 and Nex 7. As far as I can tell from the rumour site there is no plan for a replacement for Nex 7.

I guess that is why we are seeing a blend of Nex 6 and 7 in this new camera. Gen 11 24.3mp sensor and extra dial on Nex 6 type body.

Greg.

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edwardaneal
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to 1prime, 10 months ago

1prime wrote:

I realize the upcoming A6000 will be a NEX-6 extension, but with the BIONZ processer and a newer but similar to NEX-7 size 24.3MP sensor.

I wonder if any reviewers who have checked out the A6000 would have comparisons of the 7 & 60000. I'm sure the 6000 will have a 6-like composite body. Will the 6000 come close to or surpass the 7? And, if so, in which ways?

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1prime

As a NEX-7 shooter I consider the A6000 to be a very similar camera. I have two things that concern me about the A6000.

1: I dont shoot sony lenses, I like my Sigma 30 and 60, fact is the 60 is the sharpest E-mount lens tested on the NEX-7. Unfortunately, from what I understand these non-sony lenses most likely can't take advantage of the on sensor PDAF - as such I would loose one of the major improvements.

2: my second concern relates to my first - will all of the added PDAF pixels spread across the sensor that give fast focus my lenses can't use have an affect on image quality? will resolution or dynamic range or color depth be hurt?

only time will answer these questions, but at this time I am happy to stick with what I have - Heck even today Sony is still asking a higher price for an NEX-7 - - - perhaps they know something we don't yet know

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OpticsEngineer
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to 1prime, 10 months ago

much faster AF on the A6000

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edwardaneal
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to OpticsEngineer, 10 months ago

OpticsEngineer wrote:

much faster AF on the A6000

can you say that with my Sigma AF lenses?

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1prime
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to edwardaneal, 10 months ago

I'm also curious if Sony envisions this A6k to be the standard bearer for the APS-c line.

And what about the EVFs, I doubt the a6k holds a candle to the N7 as it fails to hold up to the N6.

I hope the expected in-depth review of the a6k compares in detail both the Nex6 & 7.

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1prime

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Euell
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to edwardaneal, 10 months ago

edwardaneal wrote:

OpticsEngineer wrote:

much faster AF on the A6000

can you say that with my Sigma AF lenses?

Probably not any slower.

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edwardaneal
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to 1prime, 10 months ago

1prime wrote:

I'm also curious if Sony envisions this A6k to be the standard bearer for the APS-c line.

And what about the EVFs, I doubt the a6k holds a candle to the N7 as it fails to hold up to the N6.

I hope the expected in-depth review of the a6k compares in detail both the Nex6 & 7.

my too, but at this point I already know I can't lose - my nex-7 works perfectly and the A600o offered no real advances using the AF lenses I actually use

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1prime

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edwardaneal
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to Euell, 10 months ago

Euell wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

OpticsEngineer wrote:

much faster AF on the A6000

can you say that with my Sigma AF lenses?

Probably not any slower.

but whats the point of changing if it isn't actually faster? seriously, if you take away the faster AF what does the A6000 offer that I don't already have? and what would I loose like the EVF resolution and no mic input?

seriously, at this point we don't even know which sensor is better - at low ISO without the pdaf pixels there is a very reasonable chance that the NEX-7 sensor might actually perform better

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TiagoReil
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to edwardaneal, 10 months ago

edwardaneal wrote:

Euell wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

OpticsEngineer wrote:

much faster AF on the A6000

can you say that with my Sigma AF lenses?

Probably not any slower.

but whats the point of changing if it isn't actually faster? seriously, if you take away the faster AF what does the A6000 offer that I don't already have? and what would I loose like the EVF resolution and no mic input?

seriously, at this point we don't even know which sensor is better - at low ISO without the pdaf pixels there is a very reasonable chance that the NEX-7 sensor might actually perform better

If you use MF lenses there is no reason to change the nex-7 for the A6000.

If you have 3rd party lenses (sigma, zeiss, tamron) or the sony that dont have PDAF support, then probably not worth it. Probably. We dont know if all the improvements come fromt he PDAF or if they also did something to the CDAF. But probably it is the PDAF. And even if it is improvements on both, just CDAF will not be enough to justify the change.

So, if you are only going to use Sigma, then yes, no need (probably, we will have to wait till user reviews).

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Reignman40
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to 1prime, 10 months ago

1prime wrote:

I'm also curious if Sony envisions this A6k to be the standard bearer for the APS-c line.

And what about the EVFs, I doubt the a6k holds a candle to the N7 as it fails to hold up to the N6.

I hope the expected in-depth review of the a6k compares in detail both the Nex6 & 7.

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1prime

There are reports from some sites that the lower resolution EVF is actually better performing than the current EVF in N6 and N7. Lower noise with lesser pixels. Plus, I am not sure how much you will notice the resolution difference in real-life.

"However, comparing the two side-by-side, the A6000's EVF is the clear winner as it produces much more accurate colors and easy to discern details. Both cameras' EVFs provide 100% coverage, but the A6000's offers slightly lower magnification at 1.07x versus 1.09x for the NEX-6. Still, the view inside the A6000's EVF is bright and large."

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/sony-a6000/sony-a6000A.HTM

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blue_skies
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to 1prime, 10 months ago

1prime wrote:

I realize the upcoming A6000 will be a NEX-6 extension, but with the BIONZ processer and a newer but similar to NEX-7 size 24.3MP sensor.

I wonder if any reviewers who have checked out the A6000 would have comparisons of the 7 & 60000. I'm sure the 6000 will have a 6-like composite body. Will the 6000 come close to or surpass the 7? And, if so, in which ways?

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1prime

The A6000 is an upgrade of the Nex-6. Litterally, it adds the 24Mp processor and the fast(er) hybrid PDAF focusing to the Nex-6.

The Nex-6 already was feature-rich over the Nex-7, but it had to make do with Dual Navi, No Mic input, AEL only (no AF/MF lock), and the composite body.

If an A7000 emerged, as a Nex-7 upgrade, it would add these three features, but it would need something else for jazz: Better EVF? Perhaps. Metal body? Perhaps. Higher resolution? Perhaps. Tri Navi? Perhaps.

Do you see where I am going? They need a way to spruce up the A7000 to justify a $500 differential against the A6000.

It they up the resolution, I expect no less than 32Mp, but this may put pressure on certain lenses. So a new lens may be in order then as well. Who knows?

As is, the A6000 is neither an upgrade of the Nex-6, nor an upgrade of the Nex-7. It is a blend of the two. If you use the Nex-6 with WA RF lenses, you have great performance. On the A6000 this is still to be seen. If you use the Nex-7 with Tri-Navi, AF/MF-lock you have to change your shooting style with the A6000. It will feel like a different camera.

The other speculation that remains is that the A7000 will not be a Nex-7 RF-style body, but will get the A7 drape with an APS-C sensor inside. That would justify its $1,200 price point better. But perhaps it will be called A6, and that would be very confusing.

Would there be room for both an A7000 (Nex-7) and A6 (APS-C)? I think perhaps so, but I am not sure about the volumes. Nex-7 sales had dropped off significantly last year, and the competition around $1,200 MILC camera bodies is pretty fierce. Putting up an A6 body may simply sell better.

But why not a $800 (body only) A7000? It would fly off the shelves as you would get 'enough' for the extra $150 price delta (A6000 + extra features).

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Cheers,
Henry

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Euell
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to edwardaneal, 10 months ago

edwardaneal wrote:

.

but whats the point of changing if it isn't actually faster? seriously, if you take away the faster AF what does the A6000 offer that I don't already have? and what would I loose like the EVF resolution and no mic input?

seriously, at this point we don't even know which sensor is better - at low ISO without the pdaf pixels there is a very reasonable chance that the NEX-7 sensor might actually perform better

Not bloody likely.

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maxuci
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to Euell, 10 months ago

Euell wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

.

but whats the point of changing if it isn't actually faster? seriously, if you take away the faster AF what does the A6000 offer that I don't already have? and what would I loose like the EVF resolution and no mic input?

seriously, at this point we don't even know which sensor is better - at low ISO without the pdaf pixels there is a very reasonable chance that the NEX-7 sensor might actually perform better

Not bloody likely.

+1

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1prime
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to blue_skies, 10 months ago

blue_skies wrote:

1prime wrote:

I realize the upcoming A6000 will be a NEX-6 extension, but with the BIONZ processer and a newer but similar to NEX-7 size 24.3MP sensor.

I wonder if any reviewers who have checked out the A6000 would have comparisons of the 7 & 60000. I'm sure the 6000 will have a 6-like composite body. Will the 6000 come close to or surpass the 7? And, if so, in which ways?

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1prime

The A6000 is an upgrade of the Nex-6. Litterally, it adds the 24Mp processor and the fast(er) hybrid PDAF focusing to the Nex-6.

The Nex-6 already was feature-rich over the Nex-7, but it had to make do with Dual Navi, No Mic input, AEL only (no AF/MF lock), and the composite body.

If an A7000 emerged, as a Nex-7 upgrade, it would add these three features, but it would need something else for jazz: Better EVF? Perhaps. Metal body? Perhaps. Higher resolution? Perhaps. Tri Navi? Perhaps.

Do you see where I am going? They need a way to spruce up the A7000 to justify a $500 differential against the A6000.

It they up the resolution, I expect no less than 32Mp, but this may put pressure on certain lenses. So a new lens may be in order then as well. Who knows?

As is, the A6000 is neither an upgrade of the Nex-6, nor an upgrade of the Nex-7. It is a blend of the two. If you use the Nex-6 with WA RF lenses, you have great performance. On the A6000 this is still to be seen. If you use the Nex-7 with Tri-Navi, AF/MF-lock you have to change your shooting style with the A6000. It will feel like a different camera.

The other speculation that remains is that the A7000 will not be a Nex-7 RF-style body, but will get the A7 drape with an APS-C sensor inside. That would justify its $1,200 price point better. But perhaps it will be called A6, and that would be very confusing.

Would there be room for both an A7000 (Nex-7) and A6 (APS-C)? I think perhaps so, but I am not sure about the volumes. Nex-7 sales had dropped off significantly last year, and the competition around $1,200 MILC camera bodies is pretty fierce. Putting up an A6 body may simply sell better.

But why not a $800 (body only) A7000? It would fly off the shelves as you would get 'enough' for the extra $150 price delta (A6000 + extra features).

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Cheers,
Henry

Thanks for your reply Henry. You've expressed my mere hunches. Your idea of an $800 (body only) A7000 excites me enough to eventually make a NEX-7 trade-in! It seems Sony has finally figured out, in addition to perceptive innovation, price does matter. And that kernel of knowledge just might push them into a leadership role.  Good sailing, Don

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1prime

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lenshoarder
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to edwardaneal, 10 months ago

edwardaneal wrote:

2: my second concern relates to my first - will all of the added PDAF pixels spread across the sensor that give fast focus my lenses can't use have an affect on image quality? will resolution or dynamic range or color depth be hurt?

Short answer no.  Look at it like this, the PDF pixels are less than 200 out of 24,000,000.  That's 0.0000000083%.  So that's at most 0.0000000083% worst.  I challenge anyone to be able to discern the difference.  You could have more of a problem with dead pixels.  You would have more of a problem with dust.

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lenshoarder
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to edwardaneal, 10 months ago

edwardaneal wrote:

seriously, at this point we don't even know which sensor is better - at low ISO without the pdaf pixels there is a very reasonable chance that the NEX-7 sensor might actually perform better

As I explained in my other post, it's absolute unreasonable to think the A6000 would perform worse due to the PDAF pixels.

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lenshoarder
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to edwardaneal, 10 months ago

edwardaneal wrote:

my too, but at this point I already know I can't lose - my nex-7 works perfectly and the A600o offered no real advances using the AF lenses I actually use

There are a lot of features of the A6000 and even the NEX6 had that the NEX 7 doesn't. Other than the 24MP sensor, the NEX 7 is really 2 generations behind.

I was waiting for this camera to drive down the price of the NEX 7 to pick one of those up. But the A6000 has the 24MP, more features and all at a lower price than the NEX 7. I don't see a reason for anyone now to buy a NEX 7 over the A6000. Even if they were at the same price, I would still pick the A6000.  Even if the NEX 7 was $100 cheaper, I'd still buy the A6000.

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nevercat
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Re: Speculation on the A6000 vs the NEX-7
In reply to edwardaneal, 10 months ago

edwardaneal wrote:

1prime wrote:

I realize the upcoming A6000 will be a NEX-6 extension, but with the BIONZ processer and a newer but similar to NEX-7 size 24.3MP sensor.

I wonder if any reviewers who have checked out the A6000 would have comparisons of the 7 & 60000. I'm sure the 6000 will have a 6-like composite body. Will the 6000 come close to or surpass the 7? And, if so, in which ways?

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1prime

As a NEX-7 shooter I consider the A6000 to be a very similar camera. I have two things that concern me about the A6000.

First: When you happy with your Nex 7 why switch? You paid a lot of money for that beautiful camera, it is still working, so again why switch?

1: I dont shoot sony lenses, I like my Sigma 30 and 60, fact is the 60 is the sharpest E-mount lens tested on the NEX-7. Unfortunately, from what I understand these non-sony lenses most likely can't take advantage of the on sensor PDAF - as such I would loose one of the major improvements.

I don't know if the lenses will do fast AF (probably not) but we have to wait and see. But fast AF is not the only bennefit of the A6000 compared to the Nex 7.

2: my second concern relates to my first - will all of the added PDAF pixels spread across the sensor that give fast focus my lenses can't use have an affect on image quality? will resolution or dynamic range or color depth be hurt?

Well in theory yes it will hurt the IQ. But as less then 200 pixels are "stolen" from the 24 MP we can safely say that the differences will be minimal, you probably need $10000,-- of metering devices to see the difference.

only time will answer these questions, but at this time I am happy to stick with what I have - Heck even today Sony is still asking a higher price for an NEX-7 - - - perhaps they know something we don't yet know

They are asking a higher price for that camera as it is a better camera. The price will probably drop when the A6000 is in the shops...

Hera are some extra things that might be important to you:

The A6000 has these features that the Nex 7 has not:
WIFI and NFC
APPs (to add new features to your camera)
USB control from your PC
11 F/ps burst mode with full resolution
ISO range up to 25600 (compared to 16000 for the Nex 7)
Zebra pattern
Clean HDMI out
BIONZ X processor with some extras, like difraction correction and inteligent noise reduction

If this is enough for changing to the new camera is hard to tell. For me (when I had the Nex 7 and no Sony lenses) I would not change for it, but it is up to you !

I don't think it is wise, when you pay that much for a camera to go for the newer version everytime one comes out. I would stay and enjoy the camera a lto longer, and so save money!

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edwardaneal
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why Euell?
In reply to Euell, 10 months ago

Euell wrote:

edwardaneal wrote:

.

but whats the point of changing if it isn't actually faster? seriously, if you take away the faster AF what does the A6000 offer that I don't already have? and what would I loose like the EVF resolution and no mic input?

seriously, at this point we don't even know which sensor is better - at low ISO without the pdaf pixels there is a very reasonable chance that the NEX-7 sensor might actually perform better

Not bloody likely.

when they added pdaf to the 16mp sensor the quality dropped down a bit - why isn't it possible that removing 100's fo image forming sensors and replacing them with focusing sensors on the 24mp sensor might not have the same result?

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