Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
stevo23
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 9 months ago

Euell wrote:

quezra wrote:

Euell wrote:

quezra wrote:

Euell wrote:

quezra wrote:

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

Is this your first time buying cameras?

Own several; purchased many. Why do you ask silly questions?

Because it sure sounds like it's the first time you've noticed new tech coming out a few months later that's better that claims to be better than old tech!

You don't get it. My point is not that Sony provided AF technology for an APSc camera that was kept out of a prior full frame camera, but rather that, because of the extremely short interval between introduction of the A7/A7r cameras and the A6000, that AF technology was almost certainly available prior to the production run of the A7/A7r. In other words, Sony has once again, I think, based its marketing strategy on deliberate contrived planned obsolescence designed to part you from your hard earned lucre as quickly as possible. Can you deny this with any evidence to the contrary? I very much doubt it.

And you don't get that a sensor about twice the size with larger glass and thinner DoF probably does not have the same AF capabilities given the same processor. I'd love it if it were merely firmware fixable, and do you honestly think Sony wouldn't put it in a firmware update and seal up this MILC space for good? If planned obsolescence is the goal, then we should see a new model within 1 year. But look at NEX-7, A77 ... they aren't even replacing those 2+ years later, even when they could at any time have slipped one or two new cool toys into it and called it a day (which is what Canon does: add one incremental improvement and call it the 'new' model). Even NEX-6 took 1.5 years for a replacement. Look at RX1R ... how come it didn't get A7 AF tech? It's even the same sensor! It is you who has no evidence of this alleged "planned obsolescence".

Look, you don't have an A7. You lost nothing. Why all the faux concern for us who are perfectly happy with our A7s?

The A7 and A7r are both FINE CAMERAS. Absolutely, no doubt. If you want to defend Sony's business practices, fine. I don't.Nor do I have a "faux concern" for purchasers of the A7/A7r purchasers. Really the concern is that without public awareness Sony is likely to continue and even expand what I consider to be sleazy business practices that will affect all of us.

Obviously, the AF on the A6000 cannot be engrafted upon the A7/A7r with a firmware fix, because it is sensor-related. Could Sony have included the improved AF in the A7/A7r? I believe so and I believe Sony intentionally withheld that technology to provide a reason for a quick update of the A7/A7r. It is unlikely the update would come in 2014, but my guess is an update will likely come in 2015 ad maybe early 2015. But, regardless, these cameras are competent tools and will take good pics. Peronally, I am leaning towards Canon with respect to full frame due mainly to my Canon lens inventory. The NEX is used for international travel for non-wildlife photography to keep down volume and enhance portability on planes and so far I have been mostly pleased with the photographic results. With respect to APSc vs. full frame, I print on paper sizes 13x19, 17x22 and 17x25. I have some pretty good cropped 17x22 prints that were taken with the 10 megapixel Canon 40D, so have not really been in a hurry to move to full frame, although I do miss the low light advantage.

Development cycles and R&D aren't so neatly packaged. For instance, why doesn't Canon or Nikon put articulated, touch screens on their high end DSLRs?

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stevo23
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 9 months ago

Euell wrote:

BubbaHotepUK wrote:

I see Sony using the A6000 as the beta test before the PDAF technology moves to the full frame range.

Today's product cycles demand this iterative approach to feature development. The question is not whether Sony shafted customers, but whether it's the manufacturers or customers who are responsible for these ludicrous product lifecycles.

I personally blame it all on the internet.

And, I have a bridge I will sell you

Really? Are you going to be this way all your life? Your mother must be exhausted.

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stevo23
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Re: And now we get to the crux of it
In reply to hip2, 9 months ago

hip2 wrote:

Euell wrote:

hip2 wrote:

Euell wrote:

neil holmes wrote:

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

It IS sour grapes but from you since the A7 (and A6000) are not what YOU wanted....too funny.

It is (A7) what I wanted.....completely useless auto focus and all.

Wrong. Already preordered the A6000 from B&H. Definiitely looks promising forAPSC

Well, that's what you say. but with all you're saying, we can only doubt.

and even if you did preorder just to show us a meaningless proof, you can still cancel right away

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- The French HiP -

You are correct, with B&H I could cancel, but so far I haven't seen a reason to, have you?

except if you only preorder (or claim to preorder...) to make some kind of false impression that you are not here to troll

Actually, he might be trying to buy an A7r but is trying to trick you into being concerned about the A6000 so you'll preorder yours and leave that one remaining A7r for himself.

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hip2
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Re: kids...........
In reply to Euell, 9 months ago

Euell wrote:

zodiacfml wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

technology or just plain physics? FF lenses are not only bigger but heavier also. You just can't have the AF speed of the Nikon 1 series to your FF camera.

Canon and Nikon are likely to disagree

seems you already have your answer then.

you only need to continue buying exclusively from Nikon and Canon, which business practice and tech iterations you love.

you don't like Sony business, then don't buy from them. vote with your wallet.
we already did, we bought the A7 and A7R
why do you bother ? just ignore any Sony announcement

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Re: And now we get to the crux of it
In reply to stevo23, 9 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

hip2 wrote:

Euell wrote:

hip2 wrote:

Euell wrote:

neil holmes wrote:

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

It IS sour grapes but from you since the A7 (and A6000) are not what YOU wanted....too funny.

It is (A7) what I wanted.....completely useless auto focus and all.

Wrong. Already preordered the A6000 from B&H. Definiitely looks promising forAPSC

Well, that's what you say. but with all you're saying, we can only doubt.

and even if you did preorder just to show us a meaningless proof, you can still cancel right away

-- hide signature --

- The French HiP -

You are correct, with B&H I could cancel, but so far I haven't seen a reason to, have you?

except if you only preorder (or claim to preorder...) to make some kind of false impression that you are not here to troll

Actually, he might be trying to buy an A7r but is trying to trick you into being concerned about the A6000 so you'll preorder yours and leave that one remaining A7r for himself.

oh ! didn't think about that ! actually you might be right ! thanks for pointing it out, i was going to fall in his elaborate trap.

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hip2
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Re: kids...........
In reply to Euell, 9 months ago

Euell wrote:

quezra wrote:

Euell wrote:

quezra wrote:

Have you shot with the A7 yet? The AF is quite fast as is. So the improvement to whatever a6000 is either likely to be very marginal (i.e. we're not actually missing much), or already actually the same mechanics, only the larger FF sensor/smaller DoF make it harder to achieve given the same processor.

Euell has never shot the A7, and is hoping to generate an artificial storm of dissatisfaction among A7 users, a pattern of other people with their private dissatisfaction hoping to make others unhappy to put 'pressure' on Sony. Too bad most of us who own it are actually too happy with our cameras to care about his raving. If you are an A7 user, how fast do you find the AF? If you're not, then you have lost nothing so why do you care?

By all reports the A7/A7r are great cameras. But, Sony should be taken to task for what I think is contrived obsolescence and a sleazy business practice.

You can't make a claim of 'planned' obsolescence until you see a camera replacement coming in long before a typical replacement cycle. Claiming it will be so based on your flimsy evidence-free hypothesis is laughable.

Are you parallaxproblem in disguise?

Flimsy evidence? Hardly. Given the timing, Sony has to have made a business decision NOT to include the improved auto focus on the A7/A7r. Could have been that it would have delayed the A7/A7r production runs somewhat, or, more likely, there was a marketing decision to wait and include the improved AF in the next A7/A7r iteration. Whichever, Sony could not have been ignorant of the technology when they began marketing the A7/A7r, as they undoubtedly already had the sensor chip prototypes for the A6000 in hand at that time last fall.

for all you know, the technology the A6000 AF is already in the A7, but does not provide the same level of performance at all on a Full Frame sensor.

then where does that leave you and all your discontent claims of forced obsolescence ?

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stevo23
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Relax Euell...
In reply to Euell, 9 months ago

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

No, A7 users are not disappointed on the whole. We got what we wanted, what was advertised. We know that the different technology in the A6000 is an experiment - a beta test. It's ready for the $650 camera because that's a more disposable camera. If it works well, they might work it in the A9 or whatever.

So no, we're not generally disappointed.

If you want to argue that Sony is deliberately holding back features to keep this gravy train going, I don't know how you could possibly prove it or stop it if you could prove it.

Don't like it? Go buy an old AE-1 and use film. That'll tell Sony!

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stevo23
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Re: And now we get to the crux of it
In reply to hip2, 9 months ago

hip2 wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

hip2 wrote:

Euell wrote:

hip2 wrote:

Euell wrote:

neil holmes wrote:

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

It IS sour grapes but from you since the A7 (and A6000) are not what YOU wanted....too funny.

It is (A7) what I wanted.....completely useless auto focus and all.

Wrong. Already preordered the A6000 from B&H. Definiitely looks promising forAPSC

Well, that's what you say. but with all you're saying, we can only doubt.

and even if you did preorder just to show us a meaningless proof, you can still cancel right away

-- hide signature --

- The French HiP -

You are correct, with B&H I could cancel, but so far I haven't seen a reason to, have you?

except if you only preorder (or claim to preorder...) to make some kind of false impression that you are not here to troll

Actually, he might be trying to buy an A7r but is trying to trick you into being concerned about the A6000 so you'll preorder yours and leave that one remaining A7r for himself.

oh ! didn't think about that ! actually you might be right ! thanks for pointing it out, i was going to fall in his elaborate trap.

Every see "The Princess Bride?" Remember the part about the iocaine powder? That's what I'm thinking...

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Euell
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to stevo23, 9 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

BubbaHotepUK wrote:

I see Sony using the A6000 as the beta test before the PDAF technology moves to the full frame range.

Today's product cycles demand this iterative approach to feature development. The question is not whether Sony shafted customers, but whether it's the manufacturers or customers who are responsible for these ludicrous product lifecycles.

I personally blame it all on the internet.

And, I have a bridge I will sell you

Really? Are you going to be this way all your life? Your mother must be exhausted.

Unworthy of reply.

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Euell
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to stevo23, 9 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

quezra wrote:

Euell wrote:

quezra wrote:

Euell wrote:

quezra wrote:

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

Is this your first time buying cameras?

Own several; purchased many. Why do you ask silly questions?

Because it sure sounds like it's the first time you've noticed new tech coming out a few months later that's better that claims to be better than old tech!

You don't get it. My point is not that Sony provided AF technology for an APSc camera that was kept out of a prior full frame camera, but rather that, because of the extremely short interval between introduction of the A7/A7r cameras and the A6000, that AF technology was almost certainly available prior to the production run of the A7/A7r. In other words, Sony has once again, I think, based its marketing strategy on deliberate contrived planned obsolescence designed to part you from your hard earned lucre as quickly as possible. Can you deny this with any evidence to the contrary? I very much doubt it.

And you don't get that a sensor about twice the size with larger glass and thinner DoF probably does not have the same AF capabilities given the same processor. I'd love it if it were merely firmware fixable, and do you honestly think Sony wouldn't put it in a firmware update and seal up this MILC space for good? If planned obsolescence is the goal, then we should see a new model within 1 year. But look at NEX-7, A77 ... they aren't even replacing those 2+ years later, even when they could at any time have slipped one or two new cool toys into it and called it a day (which is what Canon does: add one incremental improvement and call it the 'new' model). Even NEX-6 took 1.5 years for a replacement. Look at RX1R ... how come it didn't get A7 AF tech? It's even the same sensor! It is you who has no evidence of this alleged "planned obsolescence".

Look, you don't have an A7. You lost nothing. Why all the faux concern for us who are perfectly happy with our A7s?

The A7 and A7r are both FINE CAMERAS. Absolutely, no doubt. If you want to defend Sony's business practices, fine. I don't.Nor do I have a "faux concern" for purchasers of the A7/A7r purchasers. Really the concern is that without public awareness Sony is likely to continue and even expand what I consider to be sleazy business practices that will affect all of us.

Obviously, the AF on the A6000 cannot be engrafted upon the A7/A7r with a firmware fix, because it is sensor-related. Could Sony have included the improved AF in the A7/A7r? I believe so and I believe Sony intentionally withheld that technology to provide a reason for a quick update of the A7/A7r. It is unlikely the update would come in 2014, but my guess is an update will likely come in 2015 ad maybe early 2015. But, regardless, these cameras are competent tools and will take good pics. Peronally, I am leaning towards Canon with respect to full frame due mainly to my Canon lens inventory. The NEX is used for international travel for non-wildlife photography to keep down volume and enhance portability on planes and so far I have been mostly pleased with the photographic results. With respect to APSc vs. full frame, I print on paper sizes 13x19, 17x22 and 17x25. I have some pretty good cropped 17x22 prints that were taken with the 10 megapixel Canon 40D, so have not really been in a hurry to move to full frame, although I do miss the low light advantage.

Development cycles and R&D aren't so neatly packaged. For instance, why doesn't Canon or Nikon put articulated, touch screens on their high end DSLRs?

Answer: because people who use those cameras don't care about touch screens

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Euell
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to stevo23, 9 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

quezra wrote:

Euell wrote:

quezra wrote:

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

Is this your first time buying cameras?

Own several; purchased many. Why do you ask silly questions?

Because it sure sounds like it's the first time you've noticed new tech coming out a few months later that's better that claims to be better than old tech!

You don't get it. My point is not that Sony provided AF technology for an APSc camera that was kept out of a prior full frame camera, but rather that, because of the extremely short interval between introduction of the A7/A7r cameras and the A6000, that AF technology was almost certainly available prior to the production run of the A7/A7r.

Very incorrect assumption. Highly incorrect. Development cycles on these things run in the 1-2 year time frame. Getting them all into one device is nearly impossible. I've been there - it's not like ordering a swing set from Costco.

In other words, Sony has once again, I think, based its marketing strategy on deliberate contrived planned obsolescence designed to part you from your hard earned lucre as quickly as possible. Can you deny this with any evidence to the contrary?

The burden of proof is on you actually. I get that you're sour grapes - I get that. Just get over it already.

Hey, you are the one who is sour grapes.  I'm happy as a clam and have ordered an A6000, which I think is likely to be terrific.

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Euell
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Re: And now we get to the crux of it
In reply to stevo23, 9 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

hip2 wrote:

Euell wrote:

hip2 wrote:

Euell wrote:

neil holmes wrote:

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

It IS sour grapes but from you since the A7 (and A6000) are not what YOU wanted....too funny.

It is (A7) what I wanted.....completely useless auto focus and all.

Wrong. Already preordered the A6000 from B&H. Definiitely looks promising forAPSC

Well, that's what you say. but with all you're saying, we can only doubt.

and even if you did preorder just to show us a meaningless proof, you can still cancel right away

-- hide signature --

- The French HiP -

You are correct, with B&H I could cancel, but so far I haven't seen a reason to, have you?

except if you only preorder (or claim to preorder...) to make some kind of false impression that you are not here to troll

Actually, he might be trying to buy an A7r but is trying to trick you into being concerned about the A6000 so you'll preorder yours and leave that one remaining A7r for himself.

That was a very very bad guess

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Euell
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to stevo23, 9 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

Catnapp wrote:

Hi everybody. First post ever, so if you wish, can flame me.

Anyways, the A7 autofocus should be improved via firmware. In daylight conditions its ok, however it can become hesitant in less then ideal (contrasty) situation. And i have experience with the 35 mm, not the 55, which i read is slower in this respect.

As i understand the R model was developed for more static, kinda slomo situations, whereas the Rless model with 120ish PDAF detectors for faster operation. And thats an excellent idea. Now jump to the reviews, and what U see is that there is no major difference in lower light AF-ing quality, well me personally cant prove that, -dont have both cameras- is just what i read.

And here comes the A6000. Very nice camera, compact-simple-fast. Very fast. Now, really dont care about worlds fastestbiggestshortestblahblah, but dont U think its kinda strange? On one hand there is the A7 with soso AF, three month later, with a relatively smaller sensor the 6000 with the worlds best AF, as Sony proudly claims it to be.

I think its a reasonable expectation to have some of that tech injected to the A7. If they do, i promise i buy the 55mm. If not, oh well........ Will keep takin pictures

Not really. Designs and development cycles are to blame as well as marketing or whatever.

First - no one who really shoots will buy a camera just because it has faster autofocus or a higher frame rate. Look at the A7 audience - so many of us are happy because we can go out and hunt down the best of the best lenses - manual focus or not. We couldn't do that with a Canon or Nikon because they only take DSLR lenses. This is the A7 audience - we seek ultimate image quality and features.

Look at it this way - why does Nikon have only a 24Mp sensor (we assume) in the up and coming D4s and yet the D800 currently sports a superior 36Mp sensor with the highest DR, lowest noise, highest resolution of any digital 35mm format camera? And yet their latest has 24Mp that isn't as nice as the D800 sensor? Any thoughts? (Hint, target audience...)

Hint: the 36 meg sensor is FAR noisier and the electronics too SLOW for a lot of pro work

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Euell
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Re: kids...........
In reply to hip2, 9 months ago

hip2 wrote:

Euell wrote:

quezra wrote:

Euell wrote:

quezra wrote:

Have you shot with the A7 yet? The AF is quite fast as is. So the improvement to whatever a6000 is either likely to be very marginal (i.e. we're not actually missing much), or already actually the same mechanics, only the larger FF sensor/smaller DoF make it harder to achieve given the same processor.

Euell has never shot the A7, and is hoping to generate an artificial storm of dissatisfaction among A7 users, a pattern of other people with their private dissatisfaction hoping to make others unhappy to put 'pressure' on Sony. Too bad most of us who own it are actually too happy with our cameras to care about his raving. If you are an A7 user, how fast do you find the AF? If you're not, then you have lost nothing so why do you care?

By all reports the A7/A7r are great cameras. But, Sony should be taken to task for what I think is contrived obsolescence and a sleazy business practice.

You can't make a claim of 'planned' obsolescence until you see a camera replacement coming in long before a typical replacement cycle. Claiming it will be so based on your flimsy evidence-free hypothesis is laughable.

Are you parallaxproblem in disguise?

Flimsy evidence? Hardly. Given the timing, Sony has to have made a business decision NOT to include the improved auto focus on the A7/A7r. Could have been that it would have delayed the A7/A7r production runs somewhat, or, more likely, there was a marketing decision to wait and include the improved AF in the next A7/A7r iteration. Whichever, Sony could not have been ignorant of the technology when they began marketing the A7/A7r, as they undoubtedly already had the sensor chip prototypes for the A6000 in hand at that time last fall.

for all you know, the technology the A6000 AF is already in the A7, but does not provide the same level of performance at all on a Full Frame sensor.

then where does that leave you and all your discontent claims of forced obsolescence ?

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- The French HiP -

I thought you were going to buy that bridge

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Euell
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Re: kids...........
In reply to hip2, 9 months ago

hip2 wrote:

Euell wrote:

zodiacfml wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

technology or just plain physics? FF lenses are not only bigger but heavier also. You just can't have the AF speed of the Nikon 1 series to your FF camera.

Canon and Nikon are likely to disagree

seems you already have your answer then.

you only need to continue buying exclusively from Nikon and Canon, which business practice and tech iterations you love.

you don't like Sony business, then don't buy from them. vote with your wallet.
we already did, we bought the A7 and A7R
why do you bother ? just ignore any Sony announcement

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- The French HiP -

Bought the NEX 6 and ordered the A6000.  I think it's too early to evaluate Sony full frame, as compared to Nikon or Canon. We'll see.

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Euell
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Re: Relax Euell...
In reply to stevo23, 9 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

No, A7 users are not disappointed on the whole. We got what we wanted, what was advertised. We know that the different technology in the A6000 is an experiment - a beta test. It's ready for the $650 camera because that's a more disposable camera. If it works well, they might work it in the A9 or whatever.

So no, we're not generally disappointed.

If you want to argue that Sony is deliberately holding back features to keep this gravy train going, I don't know how you could possibly prove it or stop it if you could prove it.

Don't like it? Go buy an old AE-1 and use film. That'll tell Sony!

You don't even know when you've rooked, Boy

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123Mike
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 9 months ago

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

If you care about good budget lenses, you'll end up using an adapter. Poof, there goes that AF speed.

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Euell
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to 123Mike, 9 months ago

123Mike wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

If you care about good budget lenses, you'll end up using an adapter. Poof, there goes that AF speed.

True, and I use a couple of CV lenses on a NEX 6. Not sure if they would work on other models. But zoom lenses are more convenient, so often use the 16-70. Have other AF lenses as well.

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enzoshadow
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 9 months ago

Euell wrote:

Son Of Mustang Ford wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

They were probably thinking something like ''it's not quite ready yet''. Now it is. Technology is constantly improving, by the time the 2nd generation A7's hit the market focus will have improved again.

No doubt, but since the product introductions were scant months apart, you would think that the top of the line would get the best AF.

Scant months apart? A6000 just "announced" but not even shipped yet. By the time it actually starts shipping it would be close to half years of difference. Sound like sour grapes to me from an APSC owner stucked permanently with his overloading pile of lens. Clearly the only value to the camera for you is AF speed. Good for you, and enjoy your outdated list of gears.

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Euell
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to enzoshadow, 9 months ago

enzoshadow wrote:

Euell wrote:

Son Of Mustang Ford wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

They were probably thinking something like ''it's not quite ready yet''. Now it is. Technology is constantly improving, by the time the 2nd generation A7's hit the market focus will have improved again.

No doubt, but since the product introductions were scant months apart, you would think that the top of the line would get the best AF.

Scant months apart? A6000 just "announced" but not even shipped yet. By the time it actually starts shipping it would be close to half years of difference. Sound like sour grapes to me from an APSC owner stucked permanently with his overloading pile of lens. Clearly the only value to the camera for you is AF speed. Good for you, and enjoy your outdated list of gears.

Shall indeed. Like I said in prior posts, Sony undoubtedly had the prototype A6000 sensor chip in final before the production run of the A7/A7r, and maybe months before then.

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