Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
hip2
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Re: And now we get to the crux of it
In reply to Euell, 7 months ago

Euell wrote:

neil holmes wrote:

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

It IS sour grapes but from you since the A7 (and A6000) are not what YOU wanted....too funny.

It is (A7) what I wanted.....completely useless auto focus and all.

Wrong. Already preordered the A6000 from B&H. Definiitely looks promising forAPSC

Well, that's what you say. but with all you're saying, we can only doubt.

and even if you did preorder just to show us a meaningless proof, you can still cancel right away

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hip2
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 7 months ago

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

That's ridiculous. You can't seriously believe that every full frame camera has to have superior spec in every area to every APS-C camera.

Top of the line should have the best spec.

So then you're saying that the D4s should have a 36Mp sensor, the D7000 shouldn't have a 24Mp sensor. 5Dmkiii should have greater DR than 6D and on and on.

Look at the sum of the parts grasshopper. The sum of the parts.

Who says that 36mp sensor is Nikon's best?

Trust me, it is.

What I am saying is that Sony hosed the buyers of the A7 and A7r, when Sony put out a downmarket camera a few months later with superior technology under the hood.

What you said is that the higher end camera should have the better specs. You've got a lot to learn if you don't realize why the A7 remains on top. Have you seen any A7 owners crying over it? Nope.

And, you, my friend, have a lot to learn if you think that the A7 and its R variant are not soon to be replaced by new models with the AF technology in the A6000. Whether you cry or not is your business.

I sure hope that this happens !

it means that when i'm ready to buy a new camera, there will actually be better cameras out there to choose from.

even better if there is an A9R with a new technology we cannot even imagine now !

very nice ! thanks for getting my hopes up.
we truly live in a very nice time for photographers with all these options to choose from, and new toys to look forward to in the near to far future !

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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to djp58, 7 months ago

djp58 wrote:

Euell wrote:

djp58 wrote:

I'm absolutely NOT disappointed in my A7r. The FE35 takes fabulous landscapes, and I've even taken some acceptable sports/action shot of my daughter playing basketball and volleyball using manual focus legacy lenses. I can't speak for everyone who bought the A7 or A7r, but I certainly didn't buy mine for it's AF ability - I bought it for outstanding IQ and adaptability

David

No reason for disappointment then, although I suspect Sony will be shoving a superior verison of the A7r under your nose in the not too distant future,

Yep - technology always improves and something better is always around the corner. In the meantime, I've already taken several thousand shots with my A7R and have still been using my (old) NEX 7 a bit too. They both were "dream" cameras for me (the NEX 7 gave me ability to use my many legacy lenses collected over the years, and A7R allows me to shoot them at their native focal lengths) when they came out and I will probably use them until they break, even if something better comes out.

David

David,

it seems you managed to make an informed buying decision !

according to Euell, it seems to be an impossible and extraordinary feat for the people dwelling these forums. and everybody else here bought their A7/7R without thinking, because everyone throws $2000+ out the window on a monthly basis nowadays, by Euell's standards

it seems you are a hero for Euell !
congratulations for achieving what the rest of us could not.
Euell, thank you for pointing out that we should all read spec sheets and reviews before buying a camera. without you, i would certainly have fallen into Sony's next trap and bought every camera they release instead of taking pictures with my current cameras !

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Catnapp
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to hip2, 7 months ago

Hi French HiP,

I think Euell has a reasonable argument. take dpreview article as an example, there is no significant differnce in AF performance between the A7 and the R model. with the A6000 model sony proved to have the tech for fast AF.

I hope it  there will be a firware update on the A7. for faster AF

sincerely,

catnapp

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quezra
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 7 months ago

Euell wrote:

quezra wrote:

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

Is this your first time buying cameras?

Own several; purchased many. Why do you ask silly questions?

Because it sure sounds like it's the first time you've noticed new tech coming out a few months later that's better that claims to be better than old tech!

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Catnapp
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to quezra, 7 months ago

quezra wrote:

Euell wrote:

quezra wrote:

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

Is this your first time buying cameras?

Own several; purchased many. Why do you ask silly questions?

Because it sure sounds like it's the first time you've noticed new tech coming out a few months later that's better that claims to be better than old tech!

Hi,

still, its reasonable to have a firmware update, I think

best

catnapp

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patriotspyke
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 7 months ago

Euell wrote:

Tim Devine wrote:

Full frame sensors are more challenging to develop. The AF features provided by the A6000 sensor will work their way up to the full frame line I believe.

I'm not upset...the a7R is great for my purposes. I wouldn't have wanted them to hold up the release for this.

-Tim

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

I'm sure those AF features or even better AF will work its way up to the full frame line. Some people say they don't care and/or never use AF anyway. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

Not at all, I use AF perhaps 3% of the time, I shoot 97% M mode and MF. Not everyone likes AF, MF using a legacy lens just feels more involving than pushing a button but each to their own!

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re: 55mm? actually... TOO SHORT
In reply to hip2, 7 months ago

hip2 wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

Euell wrote:

Too long for general use on APSc.

I'd much prefer 85/1.4, 100/2 or even 135/2 - classic short teles, but neither is even on S's road map !!

for the E-mount, these might be too big.

you might get the same focal lengths, but smaller apertures to match the A7 bodies.

though a 85/1.8 or /2 and 135/4 with the same quality as the current 55mm could be more than enough for me

it is all about IQ (image quality), where of course both FL and aperture wide open plays a crucial part, at least for some - size is of secondary significance, or even doesn't matter at all (given the "size is all" logic, e.g. the 70-200/4G should be disqualified outright = already as a blueprint )

jpr2

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zodiacfml
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kids...........
In reply to Euell, 7 months ago

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

technology or just plain physics?  FF lenses are not only bigger but heavier also.  You just can't have the AF speed of the Nikon 1 series to your FF camera.

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Catnapp
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Re: kids...........
In reply to zodiacfml, 7 months ago

Hi
Dont think the nikon v1 was mentioned.
In my experience, the A7 in less the ideal conditions has a hesitant AF. Sony claims the A6000 to be the fastest. Thats an apsc model. It is reasonable to quetion why this tech is not available for the ff model, with compromises of course. And yes, it was written by several sources the the 55mm is even slower on the A7.

Best
Catnapp

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hip2
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Catnapp, 7 months ago

Catnapp wrote:

Hi French HiP,

I think Euell has a reasonable argument. take dpreview article as an example, there is no significant differnce in AF performance between the A7 and the R model. with the A6000 model sony proved to have the tech for fast AF.

I hope it there will be a firware update on the A7. for faster AF

sincerely,

catnapp

Hi Catnapp,

"proved" ? where is the proof ?

it's an announcement (with little text at the end of the page even...), for now it's only a claim.

and even if it's true, which i really hope it is, newer tech products are expected to have better tech, regardless of product hierarchy.

especially for companies like Sony market their brand image as tech leaders.

if you buy the A7, you should know what you are getting into before giving away your money.

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hip2
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Re: kids...........
In reply to Catnapp, 7 months ago

Catnapp wrote:

Hi
Dont think the nikon v1 was mentioned.
In my experience, the A7 in less the ideal conditions has a hesitant AF. Sony claims the A6000 to be the fastest. Thats an apsc model. It is reasonable to quetion why this tech is not available for the ff model, with compromises of course. And yes, it was written by several sources the the 55mm is even slower on the A7.

Best
Catnapp

the Nikon 1 was mentionned.

And zodiacfml mentionned it because it is well known to have a very fast AF.

people have already answered your "question" at the beginning of the thread.
or you're just trying to continue trolling under a different name ?

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Catnapp
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Re: kids...........
In reply to hip2, 7 months ago

Hi

Must have missed the v1, pardon. Trollin? No. Proved? The utube video with the kids jumpin around was a proof for me. If we look at the dpreview of the A's its clearly written that there is no significant diff in Af. The a7 has 117 pdaf points to use for better af. And its not there.
The only reason to write is that i do agree with the original poster, and dont care about his/her sarcasm.

One more thing: im new here, dont really like forums although sometimes its good to read to get some info. The reason im writing is my naive belief that maybe sony corp is listening, after all its the most visited photo site.

That all, have a nice day

Catnapp

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quezra
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Re: kids...........
In reply to Catnapp, 7 months ago

Catnapp wrote:

Hi

Must have missed the v1, pardon. Trollin? No. Proved? The utube video with the kids jumpin around was a proof for me. If we look at the dpreview of the A's its clearly written that there is no significant diff in Af. The a7 has 117 pdaf points to use for better af. And its not there.
The only reason to write is that i do agree with the original poster, and dont care about his/her sarcasm.

One more thing: im new here, dont really like forums although sometimes its good to read to get some info. The reason im writing is my naive belief that maybe sony corp is listening, after all its the most visited photo site.

That all, have a nice day

Catnapp

Have you shot with the A7 yet? The AF is quite fast as is. So the improvement to whatever a6000 is either likely to be very marginal (i.e. we're not actually missing much), or already actually the same mechanics, only the larger FF sensor/smaller DoF make it harder to achieve given the same processor.

Euell has never shot the A7, and is hoping to generate an artificial storm of dissatisfaction among A7 users, a pattern of other people with their private dissatisfaction hoping to make others unhappy to put 'pressure' on Sony. Too bad most of us who own it are actually too happy with our cameras to care about his raving. If you are an A7 user, how fast do you find the AF? If you're not, then you have lost nothing so why do you care?

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Catnapp
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Re: kids...........
In reply to quezra, 7 months ago

Hi quezra

yes, i do have the A7. I got it three weeks ago. In general the af is fine. During daytime i have no problems with it, its reasonably fast.  However it get hesitant in darker scenarios. And i think it was mentioned in the review as well.

dont have the 55, which is supposedly slower then the 35mm.

on the other hand, dont see why the original poster is a troll. He/she has a point. And sony has the tech.

does faster af make me a better photographer?

we can agree on the answer, dont we?

cheers

catnapp

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djp58
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Catnapp, 7 months ago

Catnapp wrote:

Hi French HiP,

I think Euell has a reasonable argument. take dpreview article as an example, there is no significant differnce in AF performance between the A7 and the R model. with the A6000 model sony proved to have the tech for fast AF.

I hope it there will be a firware update on the A7. for faster AF

sincerely,

catnapp

They've only said they can do faster AF with the new A6000 - not tested/proven yet...and that is on an apsc sensor with apsc lenses - might be more difficult to implement with a larger sensor and heavier lenses (more mass to move for AF motors and less DoF to work with!).  I'm sure they will improve tech in the future, but won't be holding my breath expecting a FW update to make it better on my current camera.  FWIW, my A7R autofocuses much faster and more accurately than I expected based on the initial reviews I read before I purchased it - AF wasn't a priority for me then, and won't be in the future as I still prefer MF most of the time.  You can always wait for the next tech to show up, but there will always be something better just around the corner, so you might be waiting forever - at least that would be better for the pocketbook

David

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djp58
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to hip2, 7 months ago

hip2 wrote:

djp58 wrote:

Euell wrote:

djp58 wrote:

I'm absolutely NOT disappointed in my A7r. The FE35 takes fabulous landscapes, and I've even taken some acceptable sports/action shot of my daughter playing basketball and volleyball using manual focus legacy lenses. I can't speak for everyone who bought the A7 or A7r, but I certainly didn't buy mine for it's AF ability - I bought it for outstanding IQ and adaptability

David

No reason for disappointment then, although I suspect Sony will be shoving a superior verison of the A7r under your nose in the not too distant future,

Yep - technology always improves and something better is always around the corner. In the meantime, I've already taken several thousand shots with my A7R and have still been using my (old) NEX 7 a bit too. They both were "dream" cameras for me (the NEX 7 gave me ability to use my many legacy lenses collected over the years, and A7R allows me to shoot them at their native focal lengths) when they came out and I will probably use them until they break, even if something better comes out.

David

David,

it seems you managed to make an informed buying decision !

according to Euell, it seems to be an impossible and extraordinary feat for the people dwelling these forums. and everybody else here bought their A7/7R without thinking, because everyone throws $2000+ out the window on a monthly basis nowadays, by Euell's standards

it seems you are a hero for Euell !
congratulations for achieving what the rest of us could not.
Euell, thank you for pointing out that we should all read spec sheets and reviews before buying a camera. without you, i would certainly have fallen into Sony's next trap and bought every camera they release instead of taking pictures with my current cameras !

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Thanks

It's funny that many folks want to wait for that perfect camera to come out - though it will never happen and there will always be something better (though never perfect) just around the corner.  I find it interesting that so many people can't just go out and get the best thing that is available and within their budget and then use it without worrying about what is coming out next month.

David

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Euell
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to quezra, 7 months ago

quezra wrote:

Euell wrote:

quezra wrote:

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

Is this your first time buying cameras?

Own several; purchased many. Why do you ask silly questions?

Because it sure sounds like it's the first time you've noticed new tech coming out a few months later that's better that claims to be better than old tech!

You don't get it.  My point is not that Sony provided AF technology for an APSc camera that was kept out of a prior full frame camera, but rather that, because of the extremely short interval between introduction of the A7/A7r cameras and the A6000, that AF technology was almost certainly available prior to the production run of the A7/A7r.  In other words, Sony has once again, I think, based its marketing strategy on deliberate contrived planned obsolescence designed to part you from your hard earned lucre as quickly as possible.  Can you deny this with any evidence to the contrary? I very much doubt it.

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Euell
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Re: 55mm
In reply to hip2, 7 months ago

hip2 wrote:

Euell wrote:

hip2 wrote:

Euell wrote:

hip2 wrote:

Euell wrote:

SQLGuy wrote:

Euell wrote:

Tim Devine wrote:

Full frame sensors are more challenging to develop. The AF features provided by the A6000 sensor will work their way up to the full frame line I believe.

I'm not upset...the a7R is great for my purposes. I wouldn't have wanted them to hold up the release for this.

-Tim

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

I'm sure those AF features or even better AF will work its way up to the full frame line. Some people say they don't care and/or never use AF anyway. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

No. You just don't get it.

I was actually very pleased to see that Sony was trying to push better AF into their more mainsteam mirrorless lineup, but I bought a NEX-5 for legacy glass, I upgraded to a NEX-7 for legacy glass, and the A7 was basically the camera I've been waiting for since digital ILCs were introduced.

What's the A6000 sensor going to do for me? It's APS-C. I want full frame. It has better PDAF... that's not even going to give me faster focus peaking. If they had included this functionality in the A7, I wouldn't have minded, but it would also have made very little (if any) difference in how I use my camera.

Sorry not to support your theory. BTW, odds are, if you had bought an A7, you would probably have already returned it because it doesn't appear to be the right camera for what you want to do. Isn't that why you didn't buy one? Have you pre-ordered your A6000 yet?

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A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

Yes, preordered the A6000 from B&H. I'm not sure Sony full frame is in the picture for me, more likely Canon or maybe even Nikon, due to the paucity of quality Sony full frame lenses and Sony pricing on its lenses.

The 55mm is a bargain and it could be the only lens you ever need

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Too long for general use on APSc.

Then use it on Full Frame, which was what you were talking about...

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Not I, Sir.

you were the one that said "I'm not sure Sony full frame is in the picture for me, more likely Canon or maybe even Nikon, due to the paucity of quality Sony full frame lenses and Sony pricing on its lenses."

it's even in the quote...

i suggested the 55mm as the only lens you would ever need...
but you seem only here to bash on Sony systems anyway, so you don't care or you will try to dodge most of the remarks people are making, like you are trying right now

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What are you smoking? Must be really good stuff.  Work on clarity in your writing.  My post indicated a present interest in APSc, rather than full frame, and you provided a suggestion for a 55mm lens, which, as I indicated, is too long for a general purpose lens on an APSc. From all reports the 55mm is a really excellent lens.  Maybe you just like to argue.  Hmm??

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Euell
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Re: And now we get to the crux of it
In reply to hip2, 7 months ago

hip2 wrote:

Euell wrote:

neil holmes wrote:

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

It IS sour grapes but from you since the A7 (and A6000) are not what YOU wanted....too funny.

It is (A7) what I wanted.....completely useless auto focus and all.

Wrong. Already preordered the A6000 from B&H. Definiitely looks promising forAPSC

Well, that's what you say. but with all you're saying, we can only doubt.

and even if you did preorder just to show us a meaningless proof, you can still cancel right away

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You are correct, with B&H I could cancel, but so far I haven't seen a reason to, have you?

 Euell's gear list:Euell's gear list
Canon EOS 7D Sony Alpha NEX-5 Sony Alpha NEX-6 Sony a6000 Canon EF 300mm f/4.0L IS USM +15 more
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