Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Started 5 months ago | Discussions
neil holmes
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And now we get to the crux of it
In reply to Euell, 5 months ago

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

It IS sour grapes but from you since the A7 (and A6000) are not what YOU wanted....too funny.

It is (A7) what I wanted.....completely useless auto focus and all.

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bigley Ling
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Bart Hickman, 5 months ago

Bart Hickman wrote:

Euell wrote:

Son Of Mustang Ford wrote:

Euell wrote:

Son Of Mustang Ford wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

They were probably thinking something like ''it's not quite ready yet''. Now it is. Technology is constantly improving, by the time the 2nd generation A7's hit the market focus will have improved again.

No doubt, but since the product introductions were scant months apart, you would think that the top of the line would get the best AF.

No, At some point someone has to make the decision to freeze development and get the thing in the shops. The AF wasn't ready when the decision was made. You can bet there was a faction trying to get the release held back so that better AF would be ready, but another faction was shouting out the Nikon and Fuji rumours and wanting to get the thing out there ASAP - they won.

In a few months there will be a new Sony with some feature much better than the equivalent feature on the A600 ''why didn't they wait'' will be the shout - simple - they couldn't, they had to get the A6000 out there to combat the X-T1.

Cheers. C

Yatta yatta. The folks who bought the A7 or A7r should buy an upgraded camera in a few months after having bought their A7 or A7r within the last few months??!! Oh, my. Sony screwed these people.

You're not making any sense. The folks who bought those cameras knew they weren't getting top flight AF. If they wanted that, there were plenty of other options on the market not sold by Sony.

As I recall, Sony was not advertising "world's fastest AF" when they announced the A7 (A7r doesn't even have PDAF as far as I know.) Production schedule has little to do with something that might be based on hardware improvements (new sensor, new processor.)

"Scant months" is an eternity when your paycheck depends on a steady flow of new products. A7 and A7r are a particular market segment with no peers regardless of AF performance. The A6000 market is much more competitive in terms of AF.

Bart

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agree with you. Sony makes different models to target different markets. Obviously they want their APS-C (a6000) model to be more sports orientated, whereas the full frame (a7 nand A7r) is more aimed at portraits and nature where IQ, bokeh and artistry is dominant and where focused subjects do not move out of the focal plane in any kind of haste.

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stevo23
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 5 months ago

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

That's ridiculous. You can't seriously believe that every full frame camera has to have superior spec in every area to every APS-C camera.

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stevo23
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Re: And now we get to the crux of it
In reply to neil holmes, 5 months ago

neil holmes wrote:

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

It IS sour grapes but from you since the A7 (and A6000) are not what YOU wanted....too funny.

It is (A7) what I wanted.....completely useless auto focus and all.

Yea, I'm so upset at this that I'm using two completely useless classic manual focus lenses with my useless camera.

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viking79
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????????????????
In reply to Euell, 5 months ago

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

I am assuming you are being sarcastic?

AF in the A7 series is already extremely fast.  Specs about the focus speed at 16mm with a hyperfocal distance of 11 feet don't really impress me.

When I see that it can focus the 50mm f/1.8 in a fraction of the second I might be impressed: and at low EV.

Eric

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Astrophotographer 10
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Richt2000, 5 months ago

Yeah that is a logical use of A6000 for someone who has an A7/r. I thought about that myself. In my case I am opting for the XT1 over A6000. Fuji lenses are awesome.

Greg.

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djp58
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 5 months ago

I'm absolutely NOT disappointed in my A7r.  The FE35 takes fabulous landscapes, and I've even taken some acceptable sports/action shot of my daughter playing basketball and volleyball using manual focus legacy lenses.  I can't speak for everyone who bought the A7 or A7r, but I certainly didn't buy mine for it's AF ability - I bought it for outstanding IQ and adaptability

David

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Euell
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to quezra, 5 months ago

quezra wrote:

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

Is this your first time buying cameras?

Own several; purchased many. Why do you ask silly questions?

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Euell
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Re: And now we get to the crux of it
In reply to neil holmes, 5 months ago

neil holmes wrote:

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

It IS sour grapes but from you since the A7 (and A6000) are not what YOU wanted....too funny.

It is (A7) what I wanted.....completely useless auto focus and all.

Wrong. Already preordered the A6000 from B&H.  Definiitely looks promising forAPSC

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Euell
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to stevo23, 5 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

That's ridiculous. You can't seriously believe that every full frame camera has to have superior spec in every area to every APS-C camera.

Top of the line should have the best spec.

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Euell
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In reply to viking79, 5 months ago

viking79 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

I am assuming you are being sarcastic?

AF in the A7 series is already extremely fast. Specs about the focus speed at 16mm with a hyperfocal distance of 11 feet don't really impress me.

When I see that it can focus the 50mm f/1.8 in a fraction of the second I might be impressed: and at low EV.

Eric

Let's wait and see, but I think that is what is likely.

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Euell
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to djp58, 5 months ago

djp58 wrote:

I'm absolutely NOT disappointed in my A7r. The FE35 takes fabulous landscapes, and I've even taken some acceptable sports/action shot of my daughter playing basketball and volleyball using manual focus legacy lenses. I can't speak for everyone who bought the A7 or A7r, but I certainly didn't buy mine for it's AF ability - I bought it for outstanding IQ and adaptability

David

No reason for disappointment then, although I suspect Sony will be shoving a superior verison of the A7r under your nose in the not too distant future,

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Tuloom
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 5 months ago

I bet this gem makes it to 150.

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Euell
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to SQLGuy, 5 months ago

SQLGuy wrote:

Euell wrote:

Tim Devine wrote:

Full frame sensors are more challenging to develop. The AF features provided by the A6000 sensor will work their way up to the full frame line I believe.

I'm not upset...the a7R is great for my purposes. I wouldn't have wanted them to hold up the release for this.

-Tim

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

I'm sure those AF features or even better AF will work its way up to the full frame line. Some people say they don't care and/or never use AF anyway. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

No. You just don't get it.

I was actually very pleased to see that Sony was trying to push better AF into their more mainsteam mirrorless lineup, but I bought a NEX-5 for legacy glass, I upgraded to a NEX-7 for legacy glass, and the A7 was basically the camera I've been waiting for since digital ILCs were introduced.

What's the A6000 sensor going to do for me? It's APS-C. I want full frame. It has better PDAF... that's not even going to give me faster focus peaking. If they had included this functionality in the A7, I wouldn't have minded, but it would also have made very little (if any) difference in how I use my camera.

Sorry not to support your theory. BTW, odds are, if you had bought an A7, you would probably have already returned it because it doesn't appear to be the right camera for what you want to do. Isn't that why you didn't buy one? Have you pre-ordered your A6000 yet?

-- hide signature --

A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

Yes, preordered the A6000 from B&H. I'm not sure Sony full frame is in the picture for me, more likely Canon or maybe even Nikon, due to the paucity of quality Sony full frame lenses and Sony pricing on its lenses.

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Euell
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to bigley Ling, 5 months ago

bigley Ling wrote:

Bart Hickman wrote:

Euell wrote:

Son Of Mustang Ford wrote:

Euell wrote:

Son Of Mustang Ford wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

They were probably thinking something like ''it's not quite ready yet''. Now it is. Technology is constantly improving, by the time the 2nd generation A7's hit the market focus will have improved again.

No doubt, but since the product introductions were scant months apart, you would think that the top of the line would get the best AF.

No, At some point someone has to make the decision to freeze development and get the thing in the shops. The AF wasn't ready when the decision was made. You can bet there was a faction trying to get the release held back so that better AF would be ready, but another faction was shouting out the Nikon and Fuji rumours and wanting to get the thing out there ASAP - they won.

In a few months there will be a new Sony with some feature much better than the equivalent feature on the A600 ''why didn't they wait'' will be the shout - simple - they couldn't, they had to get the A6000 out there to combat the X-T1.

Cheers. C

Yatta yatta. The folks who bought the A7 or A7r should buy an upgraded camera in a few months after having bought their A7 or A7r within the last few months??!! Oh, my. Sony screwed these people.

You're not making any sense. The folks who bought those cameras knew they weren't getting top flight AF. If they wanted that, there were plenty of other options on the market not sold by Sony.

As I recall, Sony was not advertising "world's fastest AF" when they announced the A7 (A7r doesn't even have PDAF as far as I know.) Production schedule has little to do with something that might be based on hardware improvements (new sensor, new processor.)

"Scant months" is an eternity when your paycheck depends on a steady flow of new products. A7 and A7r are a particular market segment with no peers regardless of AF performance. The A6000 market is much more competitive in terms of AF.

Bart

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agree with you. Sony makes different models to target different markets. Obviously they want their APS-C (a6000) model to be more sports orientated, whereas the full frame (a7 nand A7r) is more aimed at portraits and nature where IQ, bokeh and artistry is dominant and where focused subjects do not move out of the focal plane in any kind of haste.

Disagree. None of the small mirrorless (Leica similar shaped) are well suited for use with long telephoto lenses suitable for sports. DSLR's far better in that regard.

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Euell
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, 5 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Faster AF can't replace the virtues of a larger sensor otherwise Nikon 1-series would have taken over the world.

And fast AF is not the end all and be all. Between identical models, all else being equal I would go with faster Af. But if my priority is virtues of a larger sensor, I will go for the larger sensor, much like pro sports DSLRs still settle for lower resolution while a7r/D800 for slower AF.

Why trade? When you pay the big bucks, you expect to get the bang that price deserves, eh?

Big bucks would be atleast $2500 or so, in which case, you could get both, an a7 plus a6000.

That's not very big bucks, but OK, I've ordered the A6000 and am mulling over what line is best for me in full frame.  I have several APSC cameras, incl. in part a NEX 5 and NEX6.

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djp58
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 5 months ago

Euell wrote:

djp58 wrote:

I'm absolutely NOT disappointed in my A7r. The FE35 takes fabulous landscapes, and I've even taken some acceptable sports/action shot of my daughter playing basketball and volleyball using manual focus legacy lenses. I can't speak for everyone who bought the A7 or A7r, but I certainly didn't buy mine for it's AF ability - I bought it for outstanding IQ and adaptability

David

No reason for disappointment then, although I suspect Sony will be shoving a superior verison of the A7r under your nose in the not too distant future,

Yep - technology always improves and something better is always around the corner.  In the meantime, I've already taken several thousand shots with my A7R and have still been using my (old) NEX 7 a bit too.  They both were "dream" cameras for me (the NEX 7 gave me ability to use my many legacy lenses collected over the years, and A7R allows me to shoot them at their native focal lengths) when they came out and I will probably use them until they break, even if something better comes out.

David

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stevo23
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 5 months ago

Euell wrote:

quezra wrote:

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

Is this your first time buying cameras?

Own several; purchased many. Why do you ask silly questions?

Because of your silly discussion.

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stevo23
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 5 months ago

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

That's ridiculous. You can't seriously believe that every full frame camera has to have superior spec in every area to every APS-C camera.

Top of the line should have the best spec.

So then you're saying that the D4s should have a 36Mp sensor, the D7000 shouldn't have a 24Mp sensor. 5Dmkiii should have greater DR than 6D and on and on.

Look at the sum of the parts grasshopper. The sum of the parts.

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stevo23
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Re: ????????????????
In reply to Euell, 5 months ago

Euell wrote:

viking79 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame

Is it better? Or just able to advertise 11fps since it can shoot one or two bursts of jpg at 11fps?

line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

I am assuming you are being sarcastic?

AF in the A7 series is already extremely fast. Specs about the focus speed at 16mm with a hyperfocal distance of 11 feet don't really impress me.

When I see that it can focus the 50mm f/1.8 in a fraction of the second I might be impressed: and at low EV.

Eric

Let's wait and see, but I think that is what is likely.

You're acting like a troll.

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