Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Started 6 months ago | Discussions
Son Of Mustang Ford
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 6 months ago

Euell wrote:

Son Of Mustang Ford wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

They were probably thinking something like ''it's not quite ready yet''. Now it is. Technology is constantly improving, by the time the 2nd generation A7's hit the market focus will have improved again.

No doubt, but since the product introductions were scant months apart, you would think that the top of the line would get the best AF.

No, At some point someone has to make the decision to freeze development and get the thing in the shops. The AF wasn't ready when the decision was made. You can bet there was a faction trying to get the release held back so that better AF would be ready, but another faction was shouting out the Nikon and Fuji rumours and wanting to get the thing out there ASAP - they won.

In a few months there will be a new Sony with some feature much better than the equivalent feature on the A600 ''why didn't they wait'' will be the shout - simple - they couldn't, they had to get the A6000 out there to combat the X-T1.

Cheers. C

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 6 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

Faster AF can't replace the virtues of a larger sensor otherwise Nikon 1-series would have taken over the world.

And fast AF is not the end all and be all. Between identical models, all else being equal I would go with faster Af. But if my priority is virtues of a larger sensor, I will go for the larger sensor, much like pro sports DSLRs still settle for lower resolution while a7r/D800 for slower AF.

Why trade? When you pay the big bucks, you expect to get the bang that price deserves, eh?

Big bucks would be atleast $2500 or so, in which case, you could get both, an a7 plus a6000.

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Euell
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Son Of Mustang Ford, 6 months ago

Son Of Mustang Ford wrote:

Euell wrote:

Son Of Mustang Ford wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

They were probably thinking something like ''it's not quite ready yet''. Now it is. Technology is constantly improving, by the time the 2nd generation A7's hit the market focus will have improved again.

No doubt, but since the product introductions were scant months apart, you would think that the top of the line would get the best AF.

No, At some point someone has to make the decision to freeze development and get the thing in the shops. The AF wasn't ready when the decision was made. You can bet there was a faction trying to get the release held back so that better AF would be ready, but another faction was shouting out the Nikon and Fuji rumours and wanting to get the thing out there ASAP - they won.

In a few months there will be a new Sony with some feature much better than the equivalent feature on the A600 ''why didn't they wait'' will be the shout - simple - they couldn't, they had to get the A6000 out there to combat the X-T1.

Cheers. C

Yatta yatta. The folks who bought the A7 or A7r should buy an upgraded camera in a few months after having bought their A7 or A7r within the last few months??!!  Oh, my. Sony screwed these people.

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SQLGuy
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 6 months ago

Euell wrote:

Tim Devine wrote:

Full frame sensors are more challenging to develop. The AF features provided by the A6000 sensor will work their way up to the full frame line I believe.

I'm not upset...the a7R is great for my purposes. I wouldn't have wanted them to hold up the release for this.

-Tim

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

I'm sure those AF features or even better AF will work its way up to the full frame line. Some people say they don't care and/or never use AF anyway. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

No. You just don't get it.

I was actually very pleased to see that Sony was trying to push better AF into their more mainsteam mirrorless lineup, but I bought a NEX-5 for legacy glass, I upgraded to a NEX-7 for legacy glass, and the A7 was basically the camera I've been waiting for since digital ILCs were introduced.

What's the A6000 sensor going to do for me? It's APS-C. I want full frame. It has better PDAF... that's not even going to give me faster focus peaking. If they had included this functionality in the A7, I wouldn't have minded, but it would also have made very little (if any) difference in how I use my camera.

Sorry not to support your theory. BTW, odds are, if you had bought an A7, you would probably have already returned it because it doesn't appear to be the right camera for what you want to do. Isn't that why you didn't buy one? Have you pre-ordered your A6000 yet?

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CraigArnold
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 6 months ago

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

Not at all. I find the AF on the A7R to be extremely accurate. Speed is perfectly adequate, but of little importance to me.

If it's the sort of thing that normally moves a lot I just hit it with a stick until it slows down enough to focus accurately.

Obviously I've been banned from many sporting venues, but I have the photos to console me.

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bigley Ling
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to SQLGuy, 6 months ago

SQLGuy wrote:

Nope. Not disappointed at all. I shoot mostly manual focus anyway.

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You would have so with the extremely limited range of FE glass made available!

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Son Of Mustang Ford
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 6 months ago

Euell wrote:

Son Of Mustang Ford wrote:

Euell wrote:

Son Of Mustang Ford wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

They were probably thinking something like ''it's not quite ready yet''. Now it is. Technology is constantly improving, by the time the 2nd generation A7's hit the market focus will have improved again.

No doubt, but since the product introductions were scant months apart, you would think that the top of the line would get the best AF.

No, At some point someone has to make the decision to freeze development and get the thing in the shops. The AF wasn't ready when the decision was made. You can bet there was a faction trying to get the release held back so that better AF would be ready, but another faction was shouting out the Nikon and Fuji rumours and wanting to get the thing out there ASAP - they won.

In a few months there will be a new Sony with some feature much better than the equivalent feature on the A600 ''why didn't they wait'' will be the shout - simple - they couldn't, they had to get the A6000 out there to combat the X-T1.

Cheers. C

Yatta yatta. The folks who bought the A7 or A7r should buy an upgraded camera in a few months after having bought their A7 or A7r within the last few months??!! Oh, my. Sony screwed these people.

They didn't 'screw' these people. If you follow this logic then NOTHING new will ever be released to the market because there is always the next thing being developed and if we just wait a bit longer...

Its the same for any business. At some point the design has to be frozen and the product released. I work for an F1 team and it's exactly the same, if we can just hld back the new car a couple more weeks then this super aero tweak will be ready, BUT WE CAN'T. We have to get the thing out there.

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SQLGuy
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to bigley Ling, 6 months ago

bigley Ling wrote:

SQLGuy wrote:

Nope. Not disappointed at all. I shoot mostly manual focus anyway.

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A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

You would have so with the extremely limited range of FE glass made available!

You mean you can't use all E mount lenses on the A7? Also can't use the A mount lenses and the LA-EA4? Wow. I shoot MF by choice, with legacy SLR lenses, but I thought other A7 users had some options. Now I do feel sorry for them.

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neil holmes
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You really don't get it do you?
In reply to Euell, 6 months ago

Euell wrote:

Tim Devine wrote:

Full frame sensors are more challenging to develop. The AF features provided by the A6000 sensor will work their way up to the full frame line I believe.

I'm not upset...the a7R is great for my purposes. I wouldn't have wanted them to hold up the release for this.

-Tim

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

I'm sure those AF features or even better AF will work its way up to the full frame line. Some people say they don't care and/or never use AF anyway. Sounds like sour grapes to me.

I have a total of ONE auto focus lens for the A7 and that is the kit lens that came with it.

I got that because it is stabilized and weather sealed and thought I should have at least one af lens.

The auto focus is plenty good enough for me too.

I spent more than the camera cost on buying decent manual focus lenses to use on this and other cameras (not to mention the dozens I already had)....I am sure I am not alone.

To ME, the mic and headphone jack and bigger better EVF are of FAR more use than a better af system I would hardly use....(edit) ...and of course the FF sensor!

And I would think in really low light it would still be easier for me to use mf with the A7 over af in the A6000.

I am sure the A6000 will be a wonderful camera.....great for those who want it but please don't put YOUR values on me....

When I want to use af, I will use my GX7.

The other thing is ...who said the A7/A7R are going to be the "high end" Sony cameras?

I am sure there are plenty of prototypes in Sony HQ with the af of the A6000 (or better) in an A7 body.

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bigley Ling
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to SQLGuy, 6 months ago

SQLGuy wrote:

bigley Ling wrote:

SQLGuy wrote:

Nope. Not disappointed at all. I shoot mostly manual focus anyway.

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A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

You would have so with the extremely limited range of FE glass made available!

You mean you can't use all E mount lenses on the A7? Also can't use the A mount lenses and the LA-EA4? Wow. I shoot MF by choice, with legacy SLR lenses, but I thought other A7 users had some options. Now I do feel sorry for them.

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A7 with kit lens and a number of legacy lenses (mostly Canon FD)

Yes you can mount all E Mount lens on the A7, but why would you, as you would be wasting all that full frame goodness on APS-C lens.

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Dennis
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to SQLGuy, 6 months ago

SQLGuy wrote:

No. You just don't get it.

There's no two-way conversation here - he's just trying to stir up the pot and get people riled up.

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SQLGuy
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Dennis, 6 months ago

Dennis wrote:

SQLGuy wrote:

No. You just don't get it.

There's no two-way conversation here - he's just trying to stir up the pot and get people riled up.

Yes. And he's failing pretty miserably at that.

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Euell
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 6 months ago

A lot of sour grapes here.

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DtEW
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 6 months ago

Euell wrote:

A lot of sour grapes here.

A lot of fail at trying to incite responses for sadistic pleasure there.

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quezra
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 6 months ago

Euell wrote:

A lot of sour grapes here.

Where? I have an A7.  I have two AF lenses. I am happy with their AF speed.

A new camera coming out in a totally different class does not make me look enviously at it in terms of what I have.  Why should it, unless I was lying about being happy about the AF speed? Just because you have insane expectations and sense of entitlement doesn't mean others do.

I am thinking about buying an A6000 (not at launch, but after some price slashing) for other reasons - I think the two could make a superb combination.

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stevo23
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 6 months ago

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

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Bart Hickman
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 6 months ago

Euell wrote:

Son Of Mustang Ford wrote:

Euell wrote:

Son Of Mustang Ford wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

They were probably thinking something like ''it's not quite ready yet''. Now it is. Technology is constantly improving, by the time the 2nd generation A7's hit the market focus will have improved again.

No doubt, but since the product introductions were scant months apart, you would think that the top of the line would get the best AF.

No, At some point someone has to make the decision to freeze development and get the thing in the shops. The AF wasn't ready when the decision was made. You can bet there was a faction trying to get the release held back so that better AF would be ready, but another faction was shouting out the Nikon and Fuji rumours and wanting to get the thing out there ASAP - they won.

In a few months there will be a new Sony with some feature much better than the equivalent feature on the A600 ''why didn't they wait'' will be the shout - simple - they couldn't, they had to get the A6000 out there to combat the X-T1.

Cheers. C

Yatta yatta. The folks who bought the A7 or A7r should buy an upgraded camera in a few months after having bought their A7 or A7r within the last few months??!! Oh, my. Sony screwed these people.

You're not making any sense.  The folks who bought those cameras knew they weren't getting top flight AF.  If they wanted that, there were plenty of other options on the market not sold by Sony.

As I recall, Sony was not advertising "world's fastest AF" when they announced the A7 (A7r doesn't even have PDAF as far as I know.)  Production schedule has little to do with something that might be based on hardware improvements (new sensor, new processor.)

"Scant months" is an eternity when your paycheck depends on a steady flow of new products.  A7 and A7r are a particular market segment with no peers regardless of AF performance.  The A6000 market is much more competitive in terms of AF.

Bart

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Euell
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to stevo23, 6 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

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quezra
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 6 months ago

Euell wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Euell wrote:

How could Sony put better AF in its APSc line (A6000) than in its recently created full frame line? What were they thinking? Owners of the A7 and A7r must be really disappointed that their cameras were not endowed with this better technology, since they bought them just in the last few months.

As if that's the only spec that ever mattered in a camera...

The specs are all a moving target, I'm afraid, but I think Sony screwed the good-will pooch in letting out its full-frame cameras and a very few months later letting out an APSC camera with a superior major spec. To be frank, I was considering picking up an A7 or A7R before the A6000 came out. Now, I can see that these are not the "sweet spot" models. Gonna wait, but in the meantime pick up the A6000 to complement the NEX 6 and Canon equipment.

Is this your first time buying cameras?

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cosmonaut
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Re: Ooooh Noooo !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
In reply to Euell, 6 months ago

I asm not disappointed I am over joyed. It will filter down the line. As for my a7R I think it focuses fine as is.

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