And THIS is why I'm switching to Fuji from Sony...

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
Aethon
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Re: As a company...
In reply to pew pew, 7 months ago

pew pew wrote:

57LowRider wrote:

pew pew wrote:

Its weird the hate sony gets in the Fuji forum, both systems have great cameras, jeez the fanboyism.

Undeserved, I'm sure. I was just thinking it was weird how many Sony threads there were in the Fuji forum, is this the overspill car-park?

I´m pretty sure thats not true, go there and see if you see a single tread about fuji in the recent history, and if you see any post might be someone considering buying a fuji.

There are lots of conversations on the Nikon forum when Canon brings out a hot new competitor, and vice-versa. That seems totally to be expected.  And honestly, I see just as much griping about Sony's lens strategy on the Sony forums as I do here.

Pointing out that Sony hasn't delivered on the NEX promise can't just be written off as hate if it's true.

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Aethon
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Re: As a company...
In reply to Astrophotographer 10, 7 months ago

Astrophotographer 10 wrote:

Also you realise FE lenses will work on APSc e-mount?

Apart from the fact that they are quite expensive, they make a lot of sense.

Say you buy 5 Fuji XF lenses. Great. Lovely. What happens when Fuji eventually offers a FF Xtrans or Organic Sensor? Fuji has already said XF won't do FF. I have tested that myself by physically holding a couple of XF lenses in front of my Sony A7r - you get a circle photo where the lens doesn't cover (by the way Sony and Fuji flange distance is almost the same 17.7mm veruss 18mm for Sony - I'd love an adapter that allows Emount and Xmount to interchange).

APSc Sony buyers can then accumulate FE lenses that when many upgrade to FF their lenses are useable and it also gets rid of a major objection to upgrading to FF - I only have APSc compatible lenses.

I think that's exactly why people like Fujifilm's strategy. It appears that every other company is prepared to compromise the full potential benefits of APS-C by only producing their best lenses in FF. Sony is moving to FE. Canon and Nikon have had a decade to build a full APS lineup and haven't bothered.

Maybe, as you suggest, this is because they intend to incentivize users to eventually upgrade to FF.  But you know what? I don't buy a camera system in order to be incentivized to upgrade. I've decided APS-C is the right format for me, so I just want an APS-C system that is high quality, with a full range of lenses that are as small and light as possible.

Right now, Fujifilm is the only manufacturer that has any credibility in offering to deliver what I want. Sad but true.

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wyldberi
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Re: As a company...
In reply to Aethon, 7 months ago

Aethon wrote:

pew pew wrote:

57LowRider wrote:

pew pew wrote:

Its weird the hate sony gets in the Fuji forum, both systems have great cameras, jeez the fanboyism.

Undeserved, I'm sure. I was just thinking it was weird how many Sony threads there were in the Fuji forum, is this the overspill car-park?

I´m pretty sure thats not true, go there and see if you see a single tread about fuji in the recent history, and if you see any post might be someone considering buying a fuji.

There are lots of conversations on the Nikon forum when Canon brings out a hot new competitor, and vice-versa. That seems totally to be expected. And honestly, I see just as much griping about Sony's lens strategy on the Sony forums as I do here.

Pointing out that Sony hasn't delivered on the NEX promise can't just be written off as hate if it's true.

And I guess the biggest gripe about Fuji lenses is that the large internet retailers are selling out of the 27mm.

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springsnow
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Re: And THIS is why I'm switching to Fuji from Sony...
In reply to Smiller4128, 7 months ago

FE is still E-mount, so FE lenses can still work on the crop sensor cameras, right? So isn't this a good thing then, that future Sony E-mount lenses will be 100% compatible with both full-frame and crop cameras? Am I missing something here?

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wyldberi
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Re: As a company...
In reply to Biggiep, 7 months ago

Biggiep wrote:

Sony has FOUR types of lenses to deal with now: A-mount (APS-C/FF) and E-mount (APS-C/FF). They've been struggling to keep up in A-mount and in the last 3 years started two new types of lenses. Had they used the resources they spent developing SLT on their NEX line their E-mount system would be a lot better right now. Instead, buying into Sony is like buying a lottery ticket. You have a 1 in 4 chance of being picked as Sony's future.

Interesting insight.

How many lens lines does Fuji have to deal with?

That would be a grand total of: 1.

And why is that?

Because about 8 - 10 years ago they asked a bunch of professionals to take the time to analyze the market and assess the trends in technology and come up with suggestions as to what the most viable, high quality camera would be to produce.

Their response?

A compact, mirrorless system built around a unique APS-C size sensor and exceptionally high quality lenses designed to work specifically with that same APS-C size sensor.

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Aethon
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Re: And THIS is why I'm switching to Fuji from Sony...
In reply to springsnow, 7 months ago

springsnow wrote:

FE is still E-mount, so FE lenses can still work on the crop sensor cameras, right? So isn't this a good thing then, that future Sony E-mount lenses will be 100% compatible with both full-frame and crop cameras? Am I missing something here?

Well, sure. If you are happy to use over-sized FF lenses on a crop-sensor camera.

But you can't pretend that it isn't a compromise. If you actively made a decision to buy a camera system in which you would have to "make do" to get the lenses you want, then fine.

I suspect many NEX buyers did not realise that such a decision was implicit in their purchase.

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Clayton1985
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Re: And THIS is why I'm switching to Fuji from Sony...
In reply to Aethon, 7 months ago

Aethon wrote:

springsnow wrote:

FE is still E-mount, so FE lenses can still work on the crop sensor cameras, right? So isn't this a good thing then, that future Sony E-mount lenses will be 100% compatible with both full-frame and crop cameras? Am I missing something here?

Well, sure. If you are happy to use over-sized FF lenses on a crop-sensor camera.

But you can't pretend that it isn't a compromise. If you actively made a decision to buy a camera system in which you would have to "make do" to get the lenses you want, then fine.

I suspect many NEX buyers did not realise that such a decision was implicit in their purchase.

It isn't always to "make do".   I used several FF lenses on my Nikon cameras when I had plenty of other options.   There is no way you can consider choosing to use the FE 55 f1.8 on a NEX APS-C in lieu of the 50 f1.8 E mount lens making do.  And sure you could technically call it a compromise but then again everything about cameras and lenses is a compromise.  Having the option to use the FE 55 f1.8 is a really nice compromise to have.

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kewlguy
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Re: And THIS is why I'm switching to Fuji from Sony...
In reply to springsnow, 7 months ago

mostly overpriced lenses. I just tried the new Zeiss FE 24-70/4 on A7R, not impressive for the price - sharp in the center, weak in the corners. I just hope that's just this pre-production sample... The 35/2.8 is way overpriced, too.

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springsnow
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Re: And THIS is why I'm switching to Fuji from Sony...
In reply to Aethon, 7 months ago

The OP implied that Sony would no longer "support" APS-C cameras, which is not true as whatever future FE E-mount lens Sony released will still work on current E-mount APS-C cameras. That's all I'm pointing out, unless I miss something.

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LaFonte
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Re: And THIS is why I'm switching to Fuji from Sony...
In reply to LPoe, 7 months ago

LPoe wrote:

Reposting a post I made in another thread on thissame subject. Sums up my feelings about the two companies.

To me, Sony appears to be throwing a bunch of stuff on the wall to see what sticks. The problem is they are also (IMO) being incredibly indecisive. First there were the alpha cameras with SLT, The Then they had the NEX line and it was doing great from a sales standpoint but they seemed to abandon, and we got the A series, and now a new "NEX" camera. All the while there has been no real lens support. To me the whole thing says that they lack confidence in their ability to pick a successful direction. I don't think they will have a proper lens roster until they actually pick a platform and direction.

Contrast that with Fuji... the X-Pro 1 was announced in January 2012, just two years ago! In that time Fuji has developed a true photographic platform with entry, mid, and high level bodies. Top notch Prime and Zoom lenses, but also cheaper, more entry level zoom lenses. The latest addition of a weather sealed body, and within a few months weather sealed lenses to match. And of course there is that lens roadmap that has been surprisingly, though not 100% accurate.

When I look at the offerings from the two companies the phrase that comes to mind is "Comfortable in their own skin" Fuji is, Sony isn't.

Sony will pick something eventually and it'll probably be good, but how long is that gonna take?

At a certain point you're not buying a camera, you're investing in a system/platform. That's the real strength of Canikon. People are invested in the platform and the more lenses and accessories they have the harder it is to switch. Fuji is going all out to build their own platform and they're doing it through quality product design, unparalleled product support (Firmware for discontinued models, etc) and just plain old listening to their customers and actually acting on the feedback. Not only do they make high quality products, they also actually seem to care what we say! Amazing! That's why they get my money, and I don't see that changing any time soon.

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Sony always did that trick with throwing stuff on wall. This is one of the assurance with sony. Every few years they have some new radical direction....but the purpose is to really sell the same thing multiple times to the same people. Works like charm so far. Even the battery sizes change so rapidly that you can't keep track with all the letters. I have plenty of sony gear and it is always a chore to find what fits in what and what can charge what.

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Mebyon K
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Re: And this is why I could be switching to Fuji from Nikon
In reply to LaFonte, 7 months ago

I recently bought a X-E1 as, although I like my Nikon V1, I wanted better image quality and went looking with an open mind. The current offer on the X-E1 was very attractive and the 18-55 lens superb, but what sealed it was the fact that I was told that, although it had just been superseded, I could download updates from Fuji UK which would greatly improve the performance.

Posted on the home page of DPR this morning from the interview with Fuji's marketing manager.

"Yes but it in the long run customer trust is very important. We’re a relatively new brand and we need to build trust. There was some internal debate about the X100 update, and some people within Fujifilm didn’t think we should upgrade a discontinued model but we decided to do it anyway."

The above is exactly what Sony has failed to do, and Canon/Nikon are starting to do by ignoring DX with their push to get everyone to upgrade to FX.

As a D700 owner I had already realised that Nikon had ignored me, and all the other D700 owners, by making the upgrade path either a D600/610 or a D800, neither of which is a replacement. However, having used the X-E1 and been stunned by the standard of the jpegs, particularly when using the film modes; and given the road map showing the two f2.8 zooms appearing before the end of this year, I am seriously thinking about buying the new X-T1 as the D700 replacement.

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unknown member
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Re: And THIS is why I'm switching to Fuji from Sony...
In reply to taz98spin, 7 months ago

taz98spin wrote:

Sony is more focused on FF right now to care about APSC..

and rightly so

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Re: And THIS is why I'm switching to Fuji from Sony...
In reply to khunfred, 7 months ago

khunfred wrote:

"At a certain point you're not buying a camera, you're investing in a system/platform. That's the real strength of Canikon. People are invested in the platform and the more lenses and accessories they have the harder it is to switch".

Sony has a huge system: cameras, TVS, microwaves, fridges...ahaha. Sony don't sell a camera. Sony sells a "Sony". I'm not kidding: it's a different approach of the market, maybe more consumerist. Each brand has a different philosophy. Everyone knows the Sony brand, even in the North pole. But for most of the people, Fuji is a mountain near Tokyo, not an innovative camera maker.

Even if I was very interested in the A7: putting a FF sensor in a so small body looks like magic. But after 6 months, what about the lens roadmap? What lenses and when?
So my next equipment will be 100% Fuji. Maybe I'm wrong, but it looks that this brand is managed with some brains who are "thinking" before "producing". Maybe I will miss 80/85mm lens that I used to shoot with, but I will deal without it.

6 months from release there will be more lenses available for the A7/R system than there were for the X-Pro1, Fuji still don't have any fast zooms that provide separation on a level at which even a FF F4 lens will.

many people bought in to the Fuji system for its OVF and that looks likely to be abandoned.

Sony has already released two very high quality weather sealed primes to match their weather sealed bodies, no waiting around for a few years, no firmware updates needed to make the camera usable.

Sony has got more right at the point of release than Fuji did, lets wait a couple of years and see how things match up then.

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khunfred
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Re: And THIS is why I'm switching to Fuji from Sony...
In reply to LWS2013, 7 months ago

Of course Sony can't have a full line of lenses today. But is there any photographer who really understand what Sony plans? "Hey men, today what can we do to have some fun at our Sony office?" I only need a clear and consistent policy (Nex...!??) I have a very low budget, I can't invest today and switch tomorrow. And today, I trust in Fuji. Sensor size? I'm an amateur, and even professional photographers use smaller sensors. A smaller sensor can cover most of the situations. I've already used FF, APS-c, m4/3: I know what I can do with each format. And quality and fastness of the lenses are 50% of the process. Nobody can see the difference in terms of IQ between FF and APS-c files shared on the net. And in terms of depth of field, difference is tiny in 95% of the circumstances. I could talk about Dynamic range, or high ISOs, or resolution (who really needs 24Mpx on APSc or 36 on FF?) but in the same way: a good APS-c sensor gives me enough dynamic range, 1600/3200 ISO are clean, and in a cheaper and smaller camera/lense.

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sabesh
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Fuji bodies & lenses are too big.
In reply to Smiller4128, 7 months ago

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-trusted-sources-no-a7000-aps-c-e-mount-coming-in-2014-main-focus-on-fe-from-now-on/

No more support for the APS-C in terms of a NEX7 replacement or APS-C lenses...odd considering they just released the A6000....

Can't get my hands on my X100S soon enough! (And my X-T1 when it releases!)

I recently made a switch from m4/3 to Sony, because Sony has 2 lenses that I consider ideal for travel: 16-70/4 & 10-18/4. I considered Fuji and found out that their (almost, if any) equivalent lenses and bodies are bigger and heavier compared to Sony (NEX-6). This defeats the purpose of a light travel system for me, especially considering that I take 2 bodies to avoid lens swapping.

My 2nd body is a Fuji X100s, as it has a Leaf shutter for HSS and a built on ND filter. But, I won't be considering their ILCs at this time. Cheers.
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Astrophotographer 10
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Re: As a company...
In reply to Aethon, 7 months ago

Yes that is very true. Don't go over to the Nikon forum and mention the mythical D400, you'd get flooded with upsets.

Greg.

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Astrophotographer 10
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Re: And THIS is why I'm switching to Fuji from Sony...
In reply to springsnow, 7 months ago

And also a silly thing to say considering Sony just released its latest Nex (just not called Nex) APSc camera this week - the A6000. It has the sensor that no doubt we will be seeing in the near future in X cameras - the 24.3mp PDAF pixelled Exmor with greater light throughput from special materials in the colour filter array with 20% more light throughput.

Greg.

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unknown member
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Re: And THIS is why I'm switching to Fuji from Sony...
In reply to khunfred, 7 months ago

khunfred wrote:

Of course Sony can't have a full line of lenses today. But is there any photographer who really understand what Sony plans? "Hey men, today what can we do to have some fun at our Sony office?" I only need a clear and consistent policy (Nex...!??) I have a very low budget, I can't invest today and switch tomorrow. And today, I trust in Fuji. Sensor size? I'm an amateur, and even professional photographers use smaller sensors. A smaller sensor can cover most of the situations. I've already used FF, APS-c, m4/3: I know what I can do with each format. And quality and fastness of the lenses are 50% of the process. Nobody can see the difference in terms of IQ between FF and APS-c files shared on the net. And in terms of depth of field, difference is tiny in 95% of the circumstances. I could talk about Dynamic range, or high ISOs, or resolution (who really needs 24Mpx on APSc or 36 on FF?) but in the same way: a good APS-c sensor gives me enough dynamic range, 1600/3200 ISO are clean, and in a cheaper and smaller camera/lense.

This comes back to the same old thing, if you get enough from an APS-C system then that is all you need but for others it isn't enough, it doesn't offer enough resolution or DR.

Possibly for the majority of photos on the net you couldn't see a difference between m4/3, aps-c or FF, I would also say that in most cases you couldn't tell the difference with images from a good cheap compact either.

So it really all depends upon what you need/want the images for and how they will be displayed, for many a good compact is all they need and a good compact is much cheaper and smaller than a Fuji system.

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khunfred
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Re: And THIS is why I'm switching to Fuji from Sony...
In reply to LWS2013, 7 months ago

LWS2013 wrote:

This comes back to the same old thing, if you get enough from an APS-C system then that is all you need but for others it isn't enough, it doesn't offer enough resolution or DR.

Some people like shooting their pets with a D800, some people like shooting in 24 Mpx and share on their blog in small size: these are their opinions. But it's not a need, it's a feeling. Some amateurs have a professional equipment. Some professionals get fantastic shots with cameras considered 'non pro". I'm for the diversity. The camera market is huge, most of the cameras can give fabulous pics if used in a proper way. And give ugly results with a bad photographer. We just have to know what we can/can't do with an equipment. I don't try to convince someone else but nobody can convince me about Sony ILCE near future. By the way: Sony? Canon? Nikon? Fuji? Olympus?Panasonic?Pentax?...Compact? m 43? APS-c? FF? I' ve already used different cameras in different sensor sizes of these brands, and I' ve been very happy with. And my point of view (only a personal feeling) is based on my amateur works, episodic uses and simple shares (blogs, websites, small prints).

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Mike in Kansas
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Re: As a company...
In reply to Astrophotographer 10, 7 months ago

That is partly why I am here...

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