uh oh, no A7000...?

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
blue_skies
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uh oh, no A7000...?
9 months ago

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-trusted-sources-no-a7000-aps-c-e-mount-coming-in-2014-main-focus-on-fe-from-now-on/

So we lost Mic input and AF/MF-lock controls?

This can't be real, can it?

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Cheers,
Henry

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jpr2
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re: it is a pretty safe bet = there WILL BE N7 mk-II, and...
In reply to blue_skies, 9 months ago

blue_skies wrote:

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-trusted-sources-no-a7000-aps-c-e-mount-coming-in-2014-main-focus-on-fe-from-now-on/

So we lost Mic input and AF/MF-lock controls?

This can't be real, can it?

...the only question mark is WHEN??

Even SAR says it openly: "I saw a couple of sites claiming the A6000 doesn’t replace the Nex7 and that there may be a new A7000 APS-C model in future with TriNavi. I can confirm via trusted sources that this isn’t true. There will be no A7000 APS-C(!) E-mount camera in 2014. I repeat it, no APS-C A7000 with TriNavi in 2104".

For sure a6k DOESN'T REPLACE the N7, too many reasons to list them here again. So I find it interesting to observe why Andrea of SAR is so adamantly set on repeating the Sony's mantra??

As it seems... they just try to repeat the same marketing trick they did on Oct 20th, 2013 simultaneously killing the Nex name, while releasing A7/A7r, casting a shadow of doubt on the  very continuity of Nex'en line, to milk the market with the FF craze.

Now it is to milk the APS-C market by cutting all promise of ever having a top-of-the-line, true APS-C flagship, but of course after the hype and buzz subsides, there will again be a need to release something new - a business as usual in the new season.

And yes, it won't be a huge surprise to see N7 mk-II already announced (to be delivered early in 2015) on Photokina in Cologne mid Sept. 2014

jpr2

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KristofferFossum
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Re: uh oh, no A7000...?
In reply to blue_skies, 9 months ago

There will be a full frame a6 with the nex7 form factor in the price range between a6000 and a7.

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jpr2
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re: which would mean yet another FF, and certainly N_O_T...
In reply to KristofferFossum, 9 months ago

KristofferFossum wrote:

There will be a full frame a6 with the nex7 form factor in the price range between a6000 and a7.

...a top of the line APS-C flagship !! Thus hardly even a shadow of N7 mk-II,

jpr2

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sean lancaster
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Re: re: it is a pretty safe bet = there WILL BE N7 mk-II, and...
In reply to jpr2, 9 months ago

Yes, they don't want to cannibalize the A7. The NEX 7 replacement will surely arrive in 2015, but that's really a long time to ask folks to wait who were sitting around hoping that time was just around the corner. On the other hand, it's nice that Sony is recognizing they need to put MUCH energy into the FE line. That's probably now the biggest and only hurdle for me to come back to a Sony camera (now that they have apparently figured out AF speed).

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parallaxproblem
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Re: re: it is a pretty safe bet = there WILL BE N7 mk-II, and...
In reply to jpr2, 9 months ago

jpr2 wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-trusted-sources-no-a7000-aps-c-e-mount-coming-in-2014-main-focus-on-fe-from-now-on/

So we lost Mic input and AF/MF-lock controls?

This can't be real, can it?

...the only question mark is WHEN??

Even SAR says it openly: "I saw a couple of sites claiming the A6000 doesn’t replace the Nex7 and that there may be a new A7000 APS-C model in future with TriNavi. I can confirm via trusted sources that this isn’t true. There will be no A7000 APS-C(!) E-mount camera in 2014. I repeat it, no APS-C A7000 with TriNavi in 2104".

For sure a6k DOESN'T REPLACE the N7, too many reasons to list them here again. So I find it interesting to observe why Andrea of SAR is so adamantly set on repeating the Sony's mantra??

As it seems... they just try to repeat the same marketing trick they did on Oct 20th, 2013 simultaneously killing the Nex name, while releasing A7/A7r, casting a shadow of doubt on the very continuity of Nex'en line, to milk the market with the FF craze.

Now it is to milk the APS-C market by cutting all promise of ever having a top-of-the-line, true APS-C flagship, but of course after the hype and buzz subsides, there will again be a need to release something new - a business as usual in the new season.

And yes, it won't be a huge surprise to see N7 mk-II already announced (to be delivered early in 2015) on Photokina in Cologne mid Sept. 2014

jpr2

I'm really not so sure - by 2015 an FF camera in the $1200 will be a distinct possibility (in fact clearout A7's will probably be selling for that price or less). Will Sony really sell a high-end APS-C and a low-end FF body at the same price? (I know Canon do, but we are talking Sony here)

The very obvious signal of no high-end APS-C body is that Sony will increasingly swap-out APS-C sensors for FF ones down the product range as the costs decrease leaving APS-C only at the very budget-end or not at all

As a marketing tactic I don't think 'scaring people into FF' as you suggest will work... many here simply can't afford to buy the very expensive FE lenses ($800 and greater), but will think that their current system is pencilled in for discontinuation and so sell-off their current lenses while they have the chance and buy into a more affordable system from another manufacturer

Perhaps the discontinuation of the NEX name really meant the start of the discontinuation of APS-C E-mount as some suggested at the time?

Sony need to clear this up by issueing some kind of commitment to high-end APS-C body (no specifics or dates, but just that there will be one) and/or an APS-C lens roadmap.  EDIT: I guess they can't commit to a better camera than the A6000 or people will wait for it rather than buying the A6000, but they could still issue an APS-C lens roadmap and maybe state an ongoing commitment to 'enthusiast level' APS-C E-mount bodies into the future

Sony's customer management really is terrible leaving us all with current NEX investments to wonder what is happening with their new product range!

I wonder what Zeiss think of all this after spending all that money developing those APS-C Touits?

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JurijTurnsek
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Re: uh oh, no A7000...?
In reply to blue_skies, 9 months ago

In the comments, the admin implies that a7000 will be FF.

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jpr2
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Sean: I'd probably fall into the "trap"...
In reply to sean lancaster, 9 months ago

sean lancaster wrote:

Yes, they don't want to cannibalize the A7. The NEX 7 replacement will surely arrive in 2015, but that's really a long time to ask folks to wait who were sitting around hoping that time was just around the corner. On the other hand, it's nice that Sony is recognizing they need to put MUCH energy into the FE line. That's probably now the biggest and only hurdle for me to come back to a Sony camera (now that they have apparently figured out AF speed).

...of rushing into a6k with arms outstretched, should there be a longer FL prime - say, in the 85/1.4 or 100/2 (or even 100/2.8) in E-mount, with really outstanding built quality, capable of utilizing the AF'ing speed advantage (if it'll be confirmed independently with lenses other than short FL, small lenses like 16-50PZ);

but... as the situation stands right now... there is no rush = no glass to enjoy a quick AF with

jpr2

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jpr2
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re: the APS-C has one very important, distinc advantage over FF...
In reply to parallaxproblem, 9 months ago

...which somehow got and still gets overlooked by most (perhaps due to a very poor AF so far - till yesterday, and even that is till in a need of a very good body of actual experiences; the gross majority of Nex'en users were recruited from the ranks of UWA/WA and normal FL ranges) - namely the reach advantage:

  • to have the same reach as e.g. 400mm (and about 1-1.2 kilo weight) on APS-C;
  • one would need a 600mm and 3 kilo (or more) monster on FF;

so, NO... FF A6 will never be the same as N7 mk-II - not for a pretty substantial number of prospective users Which of course are already craving the same excellent level of external controls and UI as they got on N7-classic.

jpr2

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parallaxproblem
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Re: re: the APS-C has one very important, distinc advantage over FF...
In reply to jpr2, 9 months ago

jpr2 wrote:

...which somehow got and still gets overlooked by most (perhaps due to a very poor AF so far - till yesterday, and even that is till in a need of a very good body of actual experiences; the gross majority of Nex'en users were recruited from the ranks of UWA/WA and normal FL ranges) - namely the reach advantage:

  • to have the same reach as e.g. 400mm (and about 1-1.2 kilo weight) on APS-C;
  • one would need a 600mm and 3 kilo (or more) monster on FF;

so, NO... FF A6 will never be the same as N7 mk-II - not for a pretty substantial number of prospective users Which of course are already craving the same excellent level of external controls and UI as they got on N7-classic.

jpr2

Totally agree, but I wonder if Sony are trying to sell us the A79 for that purpose, as currently there are no E-mount lenses that take much advantage of the extra APS-C reach, and the E->A-mount adaptors probably won't support the new speedy PDAF on the A6000

There is talk of very high MP FF sensors in the works (54MP?) which in theory would offer the same crop potential as a 24MP APS-C sensor, though at a price!

I don't want to see APS-C replaced by FF as I appreciate the smaller and cheaper lenses (and if feels 'wasteful' using them on an FF body in 'crop' mode) and the (currently) smaller (un-humped), and cheaper bodies. I'm just trying to interpret what I see from Sony, though of course I could be wrong

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jpr2
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re: the APS-C has one very important, distinct advantage over FF...
In reply to parallaxproblem, 9 months ago

parallaxproblem wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...which somehow got and still gets overlooked by most (perhaps due to a very poor AF so far - till yesterday, and even that is till in a need of a very good body of actual experiences; the gross majority of Nex'en users were recruited from the ranks of UWA/WA and normal FL ranges) - namely the reach advantage:

  • to have the same reach as e.g. 400mm (and about 1-1.2 kilo weight) on APS-C;
  • one would need a 600mm and 3 kilo (or more) monster on FF;

so, NO... FF A6 will never be the same as N7 mk-II - not for a pretty substantial number of prospective users Which of course are already craving the same excellent level of external controls and UI as they got on N7-classic.

jpr2

Totally agree, but I wonder if Sony are trying to sell us the A79 for that purpose, as currently there are no E-mount lenses that take much advantage of the extra APS-C reach, and the E->A-mount adaptors probably won't support the new speedy PDAF on the A6000

There is talk of very high MP FF sensors in the works (54MP?) which in theory would offer the same crop potential as a 24MP APS-C sensor, though at a price!

I don't want to see APS-C replaced by FF as I appreciate the smaller and cheaper lenses (and if feels 'wasteful' using them on an FF body in 'crop' mode) and the (currently) smaller (un-humped), and cheaper bodies. I'm just trying to interpret what I see from Sony, though of course I could be wrong.

I think that a6k is going to be grossly successful - that is provided that the preliminary findings of its lightning speed AF get confirmed with other than very light-weight lenses as well.

.

Also - as a digression, there is a standing question of AF's accuracy - at 11 fps I don't see much space left for a CDAF performing its usual routine of tiny-weeny steps, vacillating around the critical focus position between each consecutive frame - simple there is no enough time for CDAF to do so.

Which means, the speed advantage must be mostly due to the fast CPU (Bionz X), and a very reliable predictive algorithms = quite accurately telling the lens each time where to go in just one very quick, single sweep. A decades-old, well proven, PDAF-classic trick !! Minimizing potential problems due to latency lags, and mass hysteresis.

.

In other words, the predictive artificial intelligence - esp. for very fast action shooting & tracking, must rely much more on PDAF-part than on CDAF, thus the hybrid-AF solution as known from N6/5R is much less hybrid in a6k than we're accustomed to think given the past experiences,

jpr2

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Dennis
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no APS-C A7000 with TriNavi in 2104 means ... ?
In reply to blue_skies, 9 months ago

That's his quote: "no APS-C A7000 with TriNavi in 2104"

So will there be one in 2015 ? Or will there be one without TriNavi ? Or will there be an A8000 ?

And of course, this is coming from a rumor site with a very spotty track record, particularly when predicting far off things.

The A7 is close to $2K. I can't believe a company that got into ILCs (when it first planned to make Maxxum mount DSLRs then bought the division from Konica Minolta) to have a product line with higher profit margins than digicams would be content NOT offering an APS-C camera priced higher than $650. Not when they offer a variety of APS-C only lenses that sell for $1000. When they introduced the NEX-7, the problem was that there were no good lenses for it (other than the CZ24). Now they'd face the opposite problem - nobody would want to buy into the system looking to put together a high end kit.

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Section10
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A6000 versus the NEX 7
In reply to blue_skies, 9 months ago

What am I missing?

I've been waiting for the NEX 7 replacement but with this announcement, save the name 6000, this is just about everything I expected from the $1200 replacement but for $650. Good news for me, it'll get me back into the Sony system (only using rx1r lately and Canon)

I have my Touit waiting for a good hi-res body, only problem there is that benefit to super fast autofocus won't be as noticeable on the Touit.

I heard one say its too many reasons to get into again, but what features are missing? They put the metal body, mode dial, NFC, WIFI...24.3... to me they mixed the NEX 7 and NEX 6 models with A7 and got the A6000. What is the NEX 7 fans missing on this? Tri Nav? ehh, I barely used the second dial, thats why I prefer a mode dial there anyway.

Only thing we're waiting for is actual high ISO samples and performance of everything. To me this was a surprisingly good move for Sony. Or maybe they should've called it A7000 and charged a few hundred more..

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davect01
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Re: re: it is a pretty safe bet = there WILL BE N7 mk-II, and...
In reply to sean lancaster, 9 months ago

sean lancaster wrote:

Yes, they don't want to cannibalize the A7. The NEX 7 replacement will surely arrive in 2015, but that's really a long time to ask folks to wait who were sitting around hoping that time was just around the corner. On the other hand, it's nice that Sony is recognizing they need to put MUCH energy into the FE line. That's probably now the biggest and only hurdle for me to come back to a Sony camera (now that they have apparently figured out AF speed).

That's my guess as well.  They want to give the A7 a nice long run.

In the meantime the NEX-6, 7 and the new A6000 are more than adequate.

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NowHearThis
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Re: uh oh, no A7000...?
In reply to blue_skies, 9 months ago

blue_skies wrote:

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-trusted-sources-no-a7000-aps-c-e-mount-coming-in-2014-main-focus-on-fe-from-now-on/

So we lost Mic input and AF/MF-lock controls?

This can't be real, can it?

But it's saving me $500, so I won't complain.

My NEX7 retailed for $1150(body)/$1300(w/lens) when it came out, I bet the A7000 would cost the same or more.  I'm only sorry to have lost the Tri-Navi controls... Oh well. I'm saving $500!

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Henry

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bryanchicken
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Re: re: the APS-C has one very important, distinc advantage over FF...
In reply to parallaxproblem, 9 months ago

I'm ignorant on the maths involved but with going to 24MP from 16MP (N5/6 -> A6000) what FL do i kinda achieve if i crop the 24MP to 16MP?
 Is it as simple as a 50mm becoming a 75mm?

parallaxproblem wrote:

jpr2 wrote:

...which somehow got and still gets overlooked by most (perhaps due to a very poor AF so far - till yesterday, and even that is till in a need of a very good body of actual experiences; the gross majority of Nex'en users were recruited from the ranks of UWA/WA and normal FL ranges) - namely the reach advantage:

  • to have the same reach as e.g. 400mm (and about 1-1.2 kilo weight) on APS-C;
  • one would need a 600mm and 3 kilo (or more) monster on FF;

so, NO... FF A6 will never be the same as N7 mk-II - not for a pretty substantial number of prospective users Which of course are already craving the same excellent level of external controls and UI as they got on N7-classic.

jpr2

Totally agree, but I wonder if Sony are trying to sell us the A79 for that purpose, as currently there are no E-mount lenses that take much advantage of the extra APS-C reach, and the E->A-mount adaptors probably won't support the new speedy PDAF on the A6000

There is talk of very high MP FF sensors in the works (54MP?) which in theory would offer the same crop potential as a 24MP APS-C sensor, though at a price!

I don't want to see APS-C replaced by FF as I appreciate the smaller and cheaper lenses (and if feels 'wasteful' using them on an FF body in 'crop' mode) and the (currently) smaller (un-humped), and cheaper bodies. I'm just trying to interpret what I see from Sony, though of course I could be wrong

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SQLGuy
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Re: A6000 versus the NEX 7
In reply to Section10, 9 months ago

Section10 wrote:

What am I missing?

I've been waiting for the NEX 7 replacement but with this announcement, save the name 6000, this is just about everything I expected from the $1200 replacement but for $650. Good news for me, it'll get me back into the Sony system (only using rx1r lately and Canon)

I have my Touit waiting for a good hi-res body, only problem there is that benefit to super fast autofocus won't be as noticeable on the Touit.

I heard one say its too many reasons to get into again, but what features are missing? They put the metal body, mode dial, NFC, WIFI...24.3... to me they mixed the NEX 7 and NEX 6 models with A7 and got the A6000. What is the NEX 7 fans missing on this? Tri Nav? ehh, I barely used the second dial, thats why I prefer a mode dial there anyway.

Only thing we're waiting for is actual high ISO samples and performance of everything. To me this was a surprisingly good move for Sony. Or maybe they should've called it A7000 and charged a few hundred more..

I agree with you. From what I can see, the A6000 should exceed the NEX-7 in IQ, speed, and most areas of usability. From what I can tell, the disappointed side of the crowd is missing:

AF/MF mode switch - easily assignable, but not dedicated.

2nd control wheel - though you get the mode dial instead, which, to me is not a bad trade-off... I had always wished I could assign a control wheel as a mode dial on my NEX-7.

Microphone input jack - though there are multiple microphone and jack options that connect to the MI shoe.

In short, I think Sony has provided an excellent camera for actual photography in the A6000, at a great price, and in a form factor that is clearly the same concept as the NEX-6/NEX-7. Some people will not be happy if they don't have something to complain about, though. One complaint was that the black mount ring on the A6000 would probably get scratched.... IMO, that's up there with the guy who was complaining that he didn't like the airplane icon on the screen when the A7 is in airplane mode.

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mike geier
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Re: uh oh, no A7000...?
In reply to blue_skies, 9 months ago

I guess they can't improve on the NEX 7 after all.

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viking79
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Re: uh oh, no A7000...?
In reply to blue_skies, 9 months ago

blue_skies wrote:

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-trusted-sources-no-a7000-aps-c-e-mount-coming-in-2014-main-focus-on-fe-from-now-on/

So we lost Mic input and AF/MF-lock controls?

This can't be real, can it?

If it's Sony, yes.  Sony distracts with one feature while taking away with another.  A bunch of people will buy this because of the CAF, but they will leave you wanting somewhere else.  I am sure Sony will offer that product at another time though, and do the same thing with it

I am not singling out Sony, just that they are an effective marketing company.  I think this A6000 is actually more to capture DSLR buyers than anything.  Now they just need a DSLR looking camera to go along with some of those features.  The continuous focus might be better with a central viewfinder for easier pointing.

Eric

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: uh oh, no A7000...?
In reply to blue_skies, 9 months ago

http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr5-trusted-sources-no-a7000-aps-c-e-mount-coming-in-2014-main-focus-on-fe-from-now-on/

So we lost Mic input and AF/MF-lock controls?

This can't be real, can it?

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Cheers,
Henry

As real as SAR's predictions and opinions can be.

Sony isn't about to leave a big expanse of market that has been extremely successful occupied by NEX-6 and NEX-7. There will be an a7000 although with two announcements in a matter of weeks, I would expect Sony to pull back a little before making another. In fact, a6000 doesn't get to market until about end of March or early April.

The prediction about a focus on FE isn't far fetched, it is common sense. The APSc line is fairly mature and FF has only two models. If the AF system in a6000 works as advertised, and under a variety of conditions, the possibility of an Alpha 9 (aka a9) increases, above a7r.

Sure, there is a chance of lesser model under a7 as well but it will have to be stripped of features and I doubt that will be Sony's focus at this time. May be even EVFless or a more basic EVF, if not optional.

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