dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
PrebenR
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Re: What a load of tosh
In reply to mrkr, 7 months ago

mrkr wrote:

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

Here's a video someone posted from CP+ (the post since mysteriously deleted, swear I did not do it!):

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wOLfIJgSjRk

In the video, it doesn't look too hard to hold - and the person holding it is able to access all of the controls fairly well. The swept-back handle seems to match the shape of the hand holding it pretty well also.

all these discussions about ergonomics. With the DP Merrills there were complaints that the body doesn't have a proper grip and was too slippery to hold. Now we have a proper grip and the gripes continue - and now it's too much of a grip or the wrong form and so on and so on.

Everybody has to decide for themselves - and mock-ups don't help, in my opinion.

Just wait till you can hold the darn thing in your own hands und use it and play around with it and then decide.

From the video it looks very good to me, personally.

I agree.

People seem to be concerned with if one can operate the four way pad on the back with one hand. I have no idea if you can with the Quattro, but I tested with my D300, GH3 and DP2M (with a Gariz half case) and on none of them I'm able to operate that one handed. It also seems to me that with the dp2q grip one do not need to move the base of your palm off camera to access the pad, so that might be beneficial.

Besides I would fit the dp2 Quattro with a Roberu wrist strap on the right side, that works well with the DPxM.

Also remember that the camera is only 400g (without battery).

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Trollshavethebestcandy
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to axlotl, 7 months ago

Don't forget about the strap lug that will make this a torture device.  A little grinding should take care of that.

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PrebenR
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Re: From this video it looks easier to hold than described...
In reply to Kendall Helmstetter Gelner, 7 months ago

Kendall Helmstetter Gelner wrote:

Here's a video someone posted from CP+ (the post since mysteriously deleted, swear I did not do it!):

http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wOLfIJgSjRk

In the video, it doesn't look too hard to hold - and the person holding it is able to access all of the controls fairly well. The swept-back handle seems to match the shape of the hand holding it pretty well also.

No it didn't. Also interesting was the newish Qs menu

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mypic
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Re: From this video it looks easier to hold than described...
In reply to Kendall Helmstetter Gelner, 7 months ago

I was the one who found and posted the video.. Maybe copyright issue,  but then again you reposted the link so who knows.

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leonard callow
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to axlotl, 7 months ago

Haxlotl wrote:

Wooden mockup of dp2 Quattro showing my least uncomfortable holding position

I found any of the numerous trial holding positions rather awkward and uncomfortable.

Happy reading

Andrew

Andrew, as a self-proclaimed camera ergonomics expert, can you explain how on earth your "least uncomfortable holding position", requires your left hand to pinch the camera by the top and bottom plate instead of cradling it with your left hand supporting the camera and lens? It is hard to believe that anyone familiar with cameras would even attemp the grip you demonstrate, let alone proclaim it to be 'the least uncomfortable' that they could find.

Which hand looks more tortured in the photo above? (looks like the left to me)

Also what is the idea behind or the goal of holding a camera - is it not to support the camera in order to get the most stable platform and steadiest shot?

What is the fetish for one handed operation? what on this camera would prevent you from using your left hand to support the camera and lens? and why would you not want to?

perhaps you did not notice that this camera is different than say a samsung mv800 or similar that relatively has no lens or mass extending beyond the body (and is significantly smaller and lighter)

the pinch grip you are demonstratin in the photo above is appropriate for such as the mv800 but surely not for a larger camera with lens which has significant proportion of the mass extending away from the body.

I cannot take your blog post seriously at all. It seems to me to be more of a diatribe than honest assessment. I find it as contrived as your grip in the photo shown.

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Kendall Helmstetter Gelner
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Re: From this video it looks easier to hold than described...
In reply to mypic, 7 months ago

mypic wrote:

I was the one who found and posted the video.. Maybe copyright issue, but then again you reposted the link so who knows.

Thanks, I couldn't figure out how that vanished and I couldn't find it again to credit you.  Nice find.

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axlotl
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Re: Here's a better photo
In reply to leonard callow, 7 months ago

Thanks to all forum members for responding to my original post and contributing to the discussion.

Some have asked why I do not show the left hand supporting the lens from beneath. Of course I tried that but it felt uncomfortable. This camera asks to be held at (with OVF) or near (with monitor view) eye level. To get my left hand under the lens I have to twist the left wrist around. It feels much better as shown.

Some have commented that on the initial photo the position of the left hand looks cramped. Yes. it is, I was trying to do the photographs without an assistant. So this time I got an assistant to press the shutter of the taking camera, allowing the left hand to take up a more comfortable position. The combined left and right hand hold is decently steady. The manual focus ring on the lens is right under the tip of the 4th finger of the left hand.

Basically the left hand does the holding and the right hand the operating.  The layout is unusual and different from other cameras for as yet unrevealed reasons but I think it will work OK.

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zodiacfml
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Yes.
In reply to axlotl, 7 months ago

axlotl wrote:

Thanks to all forum members for responding to my original post and contributing to the discussion.

Some have asked why I do not show the left hand supporting the lens from beneath. Of course I tried that but it felt uncomfortable. This camera asks to be held at (with OVF) or near (with monitor view) eye level. To get my left hand under the lens I have to twist the left wrist around. It feels much better as shown.

Some have commented that on the initial photo the position of the left hand looks cramped. Yes. it is, I was trying to do the photographs without an assistant. So this time I got an assistant to press the shutter of the taking camera, allowing the left hand to take up a more comfortable position. The combined left and right hand hold is decently steady. The manual focus ring on the lens is right under the tip of the 4th finger of the left hand.

Basically the left hand does the holding and the right hand the operating. The layout is unusual and different from other cameras for as yet unrevealed reasons but I think it will work OK.

Thanks. Yes, it will work OK. The images you provided shows how it will handle while changing settings. I have yet to see how it handles while shooting with one or two hands (such as the thumb resting beside the buttons or underneath the fourway controller).

I strongly predict that the Quattro has better handling compared to previous DPs (though I predict the shorter height of the camera would need someone getting used to).

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Lord metroid
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to axlotl, 7 months ago

Took a picture with my DP2s held up against an image of the DP2 Quattro scaled to the correct size(same height as the DP2s). The new camera doesn't seem to be uncomfortably bigger than the DP2s. I could probably live with it.

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Lord metroid
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Re: Here's a better photo
In reply to axlotl, 7 months ago

How about holding the camera on both sides with the same grip as the left side, id est the thumb at the bottom and the index finger on top. Shouldn't that be a very comfortable position?

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JL Salvignol
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to axlotl, 7 months ago
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Toccata47
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Lead with your left hand, not your right.
In reply to axlotl, 7 months ago

I suspect the "camera" will be easier to handle if you treat it as you would an slr, left hand underneath the body or lens and right hand floating. You seem to be "pinching" it with your right hand, as you would hold a cellphone in landscape orientation.

Additionally, the balance point may be quite different between the camera and your wonderful mockup.

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Earthrise
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to axlotl, 7 months ago

To my mind its been designed to use two handed and it encourages you to use a wide grip and wide stance, SLR like-ish (think I'd end up with my left hand nearly mirroring the right), which is more stable and good to get the most out of the resolution.

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Earthrise
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to Earthrise, 7 months ago

Earthrise wrote:

To my mind its been designed to use two handed and it encourages you to use a wide grip and wide stance, SLR like-ish (think I'd end up with my left hand nearly mirroring the right), which is more stable and good to get the most out of the resolution.

Possibly the weight of the right-hand pressing the camera into the palm of the left...  (I really need to get out more)

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alfredo_tomato
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Re: Another possibility view from the back
In reply to Rudi, 7 months ago
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webrunner5
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Re: Another possibility view from the back
In reply to alfredo_tomato, 7 months ago

I bet 3 months after release they can be had at Wal Mart for $295.00. This sounds like the SD1 all over again.

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Gesture
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to Earthrise, 7 months ago

Good point. Then I would have built a similar but smaller grip on the left side, also.  Have a concept-work it through. So many possibilities once you go wider, but none of them embraced.

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Rudi
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to Gesture, 7 months ago

Another chance for Richard to make a grip for the left side of the camera

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edu T
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to HBowman, 7 months ago

HBowman wrote:

It is wide because the battery is bigger and to minimize electromagnetic interferences . . .

The battery is a DC source, so it couldn't generate EMI by itself.
OTOH, when you think about the high-frequency switching power circuit that charges the flash capacitor...

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VadymA
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to axlotl, 7 months ago

Nice experiment. Nothing about this camera makes any sense to me and ergonomics is at the top of the list. Reversed grip is the weirdest thing I've ever seen; a traditional forward grip even with exactly the same shape would be so-o-o-o much better on so many levels I don't even want to talk about it. Honestly, to me it looks more like a practical joke created for some sociological experiment on human behaviour than a real product. Even the Ouad sensor seems like a complete marketing gimmic to fool customers. Only the most hard core Sigma fanatics would buy this camera or defend its design. Sorry Sigma, two thumbs down from me.

.

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