dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup

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axlotl
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dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
10 months ago

Wooden mockup of dp2 Quattro showing my least uncomfortable holding position

http://cameraergonomics.blogspot.com.au/2014/02/sigma-dp2-quattro-ergonomic-study.html

I was intrigued by the unusual shape of the dp2 Q and wondered what it would be like to hold and operate. So I made a wooden mockup  to the dimensions stated by the manufacturer with all the buttons and dials in the correct positions. I found any of the numerous trial holding positions  rather awkward and uncomfortable. The oddly shaped handle does not fit the natural contours of my average sized adult male right hand at all. There were also significant problems with the relationship between the shape of the camera, the positions of the various control modules and my hands/fingers.

You can read more at the link above.

Does anyone know why it's so wide ?

Happy reading

Andrew

Sigma DP2
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marcodadofoto
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to axlotl, 10 months ago

Wow!

It is evident how ugly is this camera, the only thing it would save it is if it will be capable of doing wonderful photos.

I don't thing it could sell, anyway, it seems to come out from some weird space-b-movie, so horrible and kitch that, looking and looking it could even become interesting.

Anyway, definitely too big and unconfortable for carrying aroungd only one focal lenghts.

Sigma in this case is a completely "?" to me, let's see the photos (and the price).

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Lord metroid
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to axlotl, 10 months ago

Wow, what a design failure. I am feeling more and more satisfied with my DP2s. I would have loved to have the new Quattro sensor in a DP2s or Merrill body with a grip.

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Raist3d
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Wow you are "hardcore" ;-)
In reply to axlotl, 10 months ago

that's pretty cool.  Interesting.  Thanks for the post.

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Lord metroid
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to axlotl, 10 months ago

How about holding it like a gun? With the thumb on the trigget button, is that comfortable?

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lnikj
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to Lord metroid, 10 months ago

If they had just angled it forward instead of backward. Bizarre decision.

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Rudi
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to lnikj, 10 months ago

nice work You did, but how does it feel if You hold it with the left hand on the lensbarrel to relieve the right hand from the weight (kind of SLR like and not like a smartphone) ?

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HBowman
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to axlotl, 10 months ago

It is wide because the battery is bigger and to minimize electromagnetic interferences with the sensor, which is very sensible to electromagnetism.

Shielding very efficiently DP sensors, this one or the old ones, require some big amount of material. You have this place in the SD body, not in the DP.

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atom14
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Ax-O-lotl, this looks like...
In reply to axlotl, 10 months ago

...a DP M&M - all those lolly-buttons!

Tell yer what, buy me one and I will test your hypothesis...

Yours waitingly, at m14.

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Tom Schum
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to axlotl, 10 months ago

Very cool!

Here's a question: What simple and slight changes would you make to fix the ergonomics?  Is the design salvageable at all?

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Tom Schum

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Gesture
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to Tom Schum, 10 months ago

1. Neat work. Thanks for the post.

2. Heat sink makes sense.

3. Yes, might as well extend the grip into a proper pistol grip.

4. My original thought was move the lens and sensor more centered for right-left eye, right-left hand.

5. Otherwise, use that extra real estate for something worthwhile. An integral EVF; a true 16:9 sensor and LCD (SigmaPan); model with even wider lens as compactness isn't goal;  DUAL SD CARD SLOTS!!!!!!; or make it swivel like the Coolpix 990/995. Still an extremely useful design.   Since Sigma can't do a tilting, moveable LCD, have the lens swivel. Then, it would be useful.

6. Almost seems like the camera should come apart in modules and accommodate modules. How about remote control/WiFi modules. Ricoh still more imaginative. Styling is nothing special. Using the same materials, buttons, dials, doors, etc. all modern cameras do. Comes closest in my experience to the first successful Coolpix, the 900, or the Alpa late film era modular medium format camera.

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Erik Magnuson
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to HBowman, 10 months ago

HBowman wrote:

It is wide because the battery is bigger and to minimize electromagnetic interferences with the sensor, which is very sensible to electromagnetism.

Why is this sensor more sensitive than any other active-pixel CMOS sensor?

Shielding very efficiently DP sensors, this one or the old ones, require some big amount of material.

So how does Sony do it in the RX1 with a much larger sensor but still compact body?

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PrebenR
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to Erik Magnuson, 10 months ago

Because you are detecting in 3 layers
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unknown member
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Because Sony hides
In reply to Erik Magnuson, 10 months ago

Erik Magnuson wrote:

HBowman wrote:

It is wide because the battery is bigger and to minimize electromagnetic interferences with the sensor, which is very sensible to electromagnetism.

Why is this sensor more sensitive than any other active-pixel CMOS sensor?

Shielding very efficiently DP sensors, this one or the old ones, require some big amount of material.

So how does Sony do it in the RX1 with a much larger sensor but still compact body?

the effects of the close proximity between battery and sensor by implementing RAWs as '11 + 7-bit lossy compression scheme: 11-bit range with 7-bit delta values from 14-bit pipeline (8 bits per pixel in effect)'.

See her:

http://diglloyd.com/blog/2014/20140212_2-SonyA7-RawDigger-posterization.html

or here:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/50577431

The Quattros produce 14 bit (lossless) RAW.

See how much fun is is when neither you nor I have any idea what we are actually talking about (ie what is actually going on)?

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Erik Magnuson
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to PrebenR, 10 months ago

PrebenR wrote:

Because you are detecting in 3 layers

Citation needed?  'Cause it's neither Foveon nor Alt-Vision has ever mentioned this as an issue with X3 sensors in any publication I've seen.  And what about back-side-illuminated sensors?  Surely they would have similar issues.

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Halldor Eiriksson
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to axlotl, 10 months ago

Shouldn't there be a left handed version of this camera?

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Erik Magnuson
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Re: Because Sony hides
In reply to mrkr, 10 months ago

mrkr wrote:

the effects of the close proximity between battery and sensor by implementing RAWs as '11 + 7-bit lossy compression scheme: 11-bit range with 7-bit delta values from 14-bit pipeline (8 bits per pixel in effect)'.

Huh? Since this compression impacts sharp tonal transitions, it's not something that would matter for electrical noise which is typically low level banding or something like thermal noise.

See how much fun is is when neither you nor I have any idea what we are actually talking about (ie what is actually going on)?

It's how HBowman knows what's going on that I'm attempting to find out.

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Erik

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Erik Magnuson
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Re: dp2 Quattro ergonomic study using a mockup
In reply to Halldor Eiriksson, 10 months ago

Halldor Eiriksson wrote:

Shouldn't there be a left handed version of this camera?

Hold it upside down.

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Erik

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unknown member
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External signal interference
In reply to Erik Magnuson, 10 months ago

Erik Magnuson wrote:

PrebenR wrote:

Because you are detecting in 3 layers

Citation needed? 'Cause it's neither Foveon nor Alt-Vision has ever mentioned this as an issue with X3 sensors in any publication I've seen. And what about back-side-illuminated sensors? Surely they would have similar issues.

causing banding noise is quite common for all types of CMOS based sensors (I believe).

Wouldn't it then make sense to separate the battery and the sensor as much as possible?

Disclaimer: I have really no idea what I'm talking about, but it sounds good.

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Erik Magnuson
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Re: External signal interference
In reply to mrkr, 10 months ago

mrkr wrote:

causing banding noise is quite common for all types of CMOS based sensors (I believe).

Noisy lens motors have been a culprit more than once.

Wouldn't it then make sense to separate the battery and the sensor as much as possible?

The battery itself is not noisy.   The sheilding in a previous gen DP does not look significantly different than any similar camera.

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Erik

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