G1X MII or RX100II?

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phazelag
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G1X MII or RX100II?
5 months ago

I have been moving toward smaller cameras for a while now and I really do like the concept of the G1X M2, but the fact that its only 12.8 mega pixels in my opinion really lowers its potential.

I know the megapixel police will be cursing me, but I think 14-16 would have been excellent.  I have my Ricoh GR at 16 and it is nice to be able to crop to zoom.  This where I think many buyers looking for high quality in their pocket will be more likely to choose the Sony RX100 or RX100II.  Yes I am guessing the G1X will have nicer high ISO photos, but really how much better and how often will that be necessary compared to wanting the details in the 20MP Sony.

Plus the Sony truly does fit in your pocket.  I think Canon has done something nice, but they have limited the potential buyers by holding back newer sensor pixel ratios.  If this used the 70D sensor technology it could be 15MP and that would be more to work with.

I will wait to see the photos and reviews, but I do feel like canon held back on us.

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coody
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Now it should be Canon GX1 II or Sony a6000? The RX100II is out of competition
In reply to phazelag, 5 months ago
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B1ackhat
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Re: G1X MII or RX100II?
In reply to phazelag, 5 months ago

Well if you already have the Ricoh GR, then no need to trouble yourself with thinking about the RX100/RX100 M2.  I have an RX100, but I am definitely eying the G1X M2.  Yes it's a lot bigger, but decent IS and JPEGs are something I miss in my RX100.

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phazelag
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Re: G1X MII or RX100II?
In reply to B1ackhat, 5 months ago

B1ackhat wrote:

Well if you already have the Ricoh GR, then no need to trouble yourself with thinking about the RX100/RX100 M2. I have an RX100, but I am definitely eying the G1X M2. Yes it's a lot bigger, but decent IS and JPEGs are something I miss in my RX100.

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"We can judge the heart of a man by his treatment of animals." ~ Immanual Kant

Image Stabilization is not something I have considered between these two.  I need to look into that. And yes canon JPEGs are nice.  I have seen some nice examples from the RX100 but I have not used one myself.

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eddie_cam
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Re: G1X MII or RX100II?
In reply to phazelag, 5 months ago
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alffastar
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Re: Now it should be Canon GX1 II or Sony a6000? The RX100II is out of competition
In reply to coody, 5 months ago

RX100 will not be out of the competition soon in the advanced compact cameras! Plus, there is the Panasonic GM1. I really like this Canon, but I will need to see the video quality and as a micro 43 shooter it will be really hard for me to choose between this Canon and Pana GM1! I know they are different but most of all I am looking for a pocketable second body with big sensor, and versatility of the lens comes second.  I also consider sony rx100 II but its JPEGs is a matter of concern to me to some extend.

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oxon1
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Re: Now it should be Canon GX1 II or Sony a6000? The RX100II is out of competition
In reply to alffastar, 5 months ago

You have GR .... and I am told that IQ is top notch .... why going for GX1 Mk2 ? Is it possible if you can please some examples by your GR here !!! many thanks. I am torn between these two.

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technic
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Re: G1X MII or RX100II?
In reply to B1ackhat, 5 months ago

B1ackhat wrote:

Well if you already have the Ricoh GR, then no need to trouble yourself with thinking about the RX100/RX100 M2. I have an RX100, but I am definitely eying the G1X M2. Yes it's a lot bigger, but decent IS and JPEGs are something I miss in my RX100.

G1X II is twice the weight and size of RX100 ii (which already is borderline pocketable for most ...) and a lot more expensive initially. Much will depend on the lens quality, especially quality near full open. If the lens delivers I guess people will accept the larger size and higher price. If you need to stop down several stops for best quality or if corners are a real compromise whatever the aperture, it would not be worth it for me.

Btw, the OP talks about cropping on Ricoh GR but of course the GR needs that crop option more because it cannot zoom. Even at 35mm equiv. there is only about 10 MP left, less than the G1X II. The GR has higher image quality at 28mm-35mm equiv. or so, for 24-28 and 35-120 range the G1X II should win.

For me its difficult to chose between GR and G1X with the huge size/weight difference. Most of my walkaround shooting is at 24-28mm, I'm not sure if the extra zoom range and a few other nice features of the G1X II like tilt screen are worth losing the 'pocketable' feature.

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Tapper123
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Compare size, weight and options...
In reply to phazelag, 5 months ago

RX100II if you want a truly small pocket camera with very good IQ. Otherwise, might as well get a good ILC.

Some size comparisons to consider:

http://j.mp/Me0dgy (G1XII vs Canon S120 & RX100II)

http://j.mp/MOk0mO (G1XII vs Sony A6000 & Olympus EM10)

Also note G1XII is 533 grams; over twice the weight of most pocket cameras.

IMO if you're looking something as big, heavy and costly as G1XII, you might as well look at CSC's like Sony NEX/A6000, Olympus EM(5 or 10) and Fuji X which will give you much more versatility and options, as well as bigger sensors (except for M43).

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Catalin Stavaru
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Re: G1X MII or RX100II?
In reply to phazelag, 5 months ago

phazelag wrote:

I have been moving toward smaller cameras for a while now and I really do like the concept of the G1X M2, but the fact that its only 12.8 mega pixels in my opinion really lowers its potential.

I know the megapixel police will be cursing me, but I think 14-16 would have been excellent. I have my Ricoh GR at 16 and it is nice to be able to crop to zoom. This where I think many buyers looking for high quality in their pocket will be more likely to choose the Sony RX100 or RX100II. Yes I am guessing the G1X will have nicer high ISO photos, but really how much better and how often will that be necessary compared to wanting the details in the 20MP Sony.

Plus the Sony truly does fit in your pocket. I think Canon has done something nice, but they have limited the potential buyers by holding back newer sensor pixel ratios. If this used the 70D sensor technology it could be 15MP and that would be more to work with.

I will wait to see the photos and reviews, but I do feel like canon held back on us.

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The 12.8 megapixels does not lower its potential at all, but instead keeps the pixels big and the APS-C image quality from the smaller than APS-C sensor.

The problem with the G1X II is the size. It's just too big. And the size does not come from the lens only, they just made the body unnecessarily big (maybe indeed to balance out the lens).

But as far as image quality, the G1X II will be much better than the RX100 (I had the RX100).

If Canon will ever release a small APS-C camera with a fixed 28mm F2 lens (like the Nikon Coolpix A) I am sure that even without zoom it will take a lot of sales from the RX100.

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phazelag
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In reply to oxon1, 5 months ago

oxon1 wrote:

You have GR .... and I am told that IQ is top notch .... why going for GX1 Mk2 ? Is it possible if you can please some examples by your GR here !!! many thanks. I am torn between these two.

http://www.scottzinda.com/Ricoh-GR-Photos/Ricoh-GR/i-JhTKh7j

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ajamils1
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Re: Compare size, weight and options...
In reply to Tapper123, 5 months ago

Tapper123 wrote:

RX100II if you want a truly small pocket camera with very good IQ. Otherwise, might as well get a good ILC.

Some size comparisons to consider:

http://j.mp/Me0dgy (G1XII vs Canon S120 & RX100II)

http://j.mp/MOk0mO (G1XII vs Sony A6000 & Olympus EM10)

Also note G1XII is 533 grams; over twice the weight of most pocket cameras.

IMO if you're looking something as big, heavy and costly as G1XII, you might as well look at CSC's like Sony NEX/A6000, Olympus EM(5 or 10) and Fuji X which will give you much more versatility and options, as well as bigger sensors (except for M43).

All these options are great but as soon as you add a lens to these ILCs, they become larger than G1x II and most likely with worst lens. The only comparison that you can do is on price, other than that its like comparing apples to oranges or horses to donkeys

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technic
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Re: G1X MII or RX100II?
In reply to Catalin Stavaru, 5 months ago

Catalin Stavaru wrote:

If Canon will ever release a small APS-C camera with a fixed 28mm F2 lens (like the Nikon Coolpix A) I am sure that even without zoom it will take a lot of sales from the RX100.

Why would such a camera from Canon be much more attractive than Ricoh GR and Coolpix A? Maybe Canon can provide slightly smaller size (assuming f/2.8 28mm, not f/2), better out-of-camera jpeg and noisier sensor Ultimately the choice is between a high quality prime and a compromised zoom, and for some maybe about good ergonomics or lots of features.

People who don't like the RX100 concept already have two compact APS-C WA prime cameras to chose from.

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technic
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Re: Compare size, weight and options...
In reply to ajamils1, 5 months ago

ajamils1 wrote:

IMO if you're looking something as big, heavy and costly as G1XII, you might as well look at CSC's like Sony NEX/A6000, Olympus EM(5 or 10) and Fuji X which will give you much more versatility and options, as well as bigger sensors (except for M43).

All these options are great but as soon as you add a lens to these ILCs, they become larger than G1x II and most likely with worst lens. The only comparison that you can do is on price, other than that its like comparing apples to oranges or horses to donkeys

yes, the most obvious comparison is NEX/A6000 with 16-50 kitzoom against G1X MkII. The Sony combo is 1.5-2 stops slower, a bit lighter, but also more bulky. And I'm betting that there is a HUGE difference in image quality (lens quality) between these two, probably bigger than the price difference

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Re: G1X MII or RX100II?
In reply to Catalin Stavaru, 5 months ago

Catalin Stavaru wrote:

phazelag wrote:

I have been moving toward smaller cameras for a while now and I really do like the concept of the G1X M2, but the fact that its only 12.8 mega pixels in my opinion really lowers its potential.

I know the megapixel police will be cursing me, but I think 14-16 would have been excellent. I have my Ricoh GR at 16 and it is nice to be able to crop to zoom. This where I think many buyers looking for high quality in their pocket will be more likely to choose the Sony RX100 or RX100II. Yes I am guessing the G1X will have nicer high ISO photos, but really how much better and how often will that be necessary compared to wanting the details in the 20MP Sony.

Plus the Sony truly does fit in your pocket. I think Canon has done something nice, but they have limited the potential buyers by holding back newer sensor pixel ratios. If this used the 70D sensor technology it could be 15MP and that would be more to work with.

I will wait to see the photos and reviews, but I do feel like canon held back on us.

-- hide signature --

The 12.8 megapixels does not lower its potential at all, but instead keeps the pixels big and the APS-C image quality from the smaller than APS-C sensor.

The problem with the G1X II is the size. It's just too big. And the size does not come from the lens only, they just made the body unnecessarily big (maybe indeed to balance out the lens).

You think they made the body larger than it needed to be to balance out the lens?  I'm going to bet on a categorical no to that idea.  The body has a large sensor, pretty stunningly fast electronics on-board, contains the AF mechanism which must be considerable if reports of AF speed are correct, and it also has a pretty large battery inside.  The camera isn't too big, you are too unimpressed with what you get for that size....which is a shame.

But as far as image quality, the G1X II will be much better than the RX100 (I had the RX100).

If Canon will ever release a small APS-C camera with a fixed 28mm F2 lens (like the Nikon Coolpix A) I am sure that even without zoom it will take a lot of sales from the RX100.

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rrccad
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Re: Compare size, weight and options...
In reply to technic, 5 months ago

technic wrote:

ajamils1 wrote:

IMO if you're looking something as big, heavy and costly as G1XII, you might as well look at CSC's like Sony NEX/A6000, Olympus EM(5 or 10) and Fuji X which will give you much more versatility and options, as well as bigger sensors (except for M43).

All these options are great but as soon as you add a lens to these ILCs, they become larger than G1x II and most likely with worst lens. The only comparison that you can do is on price, other than that its like comparing apples to oranges or horses to donkeys

yes, the most obvious comparison is NEX/A6000 with 16-50 kitzoom against G1X MkII. The Sony combo is 1.5-2 stops slower, a bit lighter, but also more bulky. And I'm betting that there is a HUGE difference in image quality (lens quality) between these two, probably bigger than the price difference

if canon can't match the distortion / optics of that 16-50 .. then someone shoot the engineers that worked on the Mark II.

is there a lens in production that has more distortion in that lens that isn't a fisheye?

i doubt you get more than 12Mp out of that lens even on a 24Mp sensor.

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Grobb
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Re: Compare size, weight and options...
In reply to Tapper123, 5 months ago

Tapper123 wrote:

RX100II if you want a truly small pocket camera with very good IQ. Otherwise, might as well get a good ILC. Some size comparisons to consider:

http://j.mp/MOk0mO (G1XII vs Sony A6000 & Olympus EM10)

Also note G1XII is 533 grams; over twice the weight of most pocket cameras.

IMO if you're looking something as big, heavy and costly as G1XII, you might as well look at CSC's like Sony NEX/A6000, Olympus EM(5 or 10) and Fuji X which will give you much more versatility and options, as well as bigger sensors (except for M43).

What happens to the weight/size of the Olympus once you put a 12-35 or 35-100 Pany lens on it?

What happens to the price once you add the cost of each of those lenses to the Olympus? And, what if that critical moment comes up and you have the wrong lens on at that time, missed shot?

Also, the price goes up to $2,900 and you have slower lenses (at the low end) and less reach, right? I'm not sure that a the IQ difference between the Canon vs Oly will be worth $2,100. Just saying 

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panamforeman
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Re: G1X MII or RX100II?
In reply to phazelag, 5 months ago

I'm wondering if Canon plans to continue with the G-series? Will there be a G17 and beyond?

With the exception of the G1X II being 1 inch thicker, they are almost identical in size, the G16 actually being taller. I would assume the extra thickness of the G1X II is due to the lens and sensor, and with my limited knowledge of it, a jacked-up AF. (although I had no problem with the G1X AF)

I will almost certainly buy the G1X II. But if I do, why then would I buy a G17?........unless they are going to, say, enlarge the sensor in the G17 to 1 inch etc. (ala Sony RX100 II), with all the appropriate resultant changes that would cause? And will they be able to keep the cost at $499? In today's economic climate, I doubt it!

I'm no prophet, but looking at it logically, except for retail cost, what is the incentive for Canon to continue the G series? Certainly the G1X II would bite into G series sales if the G1X II is a huge hit, and I think it will be! (golly, I'm getting tired of typing "G1X II every time! Can't we come up with a short-hand name?)

Any prognostications?

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technic
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Re: G1X MII or RX100II?
In reply to howardroark, 5 months ago

howardroark wrote:

Catalin Stavaru wrote:

phazelag wrote:

I have been moving toward smaller cameras for a while now and I really do like the concept of the G1X M2, but the fact that its only 12.8 mega pixels in my opinion really lowers its potential.

I know the megapixel police will be cursing me, but I think 14-16 would have been excellent. I have my Ricoh GR at 16 and it is nice to be able to crop to zoom. This where I think many buyers looking for high quality in their pocket will be more likely to choose the Sony RX100 or RX100II. Yes I am guessing the G1X will have nicer high ISO photos, but really how much better and how often will that be necessary compared to wanting the details in the 20MP Sony.

Plus the Sony truly does fit in your pocket. I think Canon has done something nice, but they have limited the potential buyers by holding back newer sensor pixel ratios. If this used the 70D sensor technology it could be 15MP and that would be more to work with.

I will wait to see the photos and reviews, but I do feel like canon held back on us.

-- hide signature --

The 12.8 megapixels does not lower its potential at all, but instead keeps the pixels big and the APS-C image quality from the smaller than APS-C sensor.

The problem with the G1X II is the size. It's just too big. And the size does not come from the lens only, they just made the body unnecessarily big (maybe indeed to balance out the lens).

You think they made the body larger than it needed to be to balance out the lens? I'm going to bet on a categorical no to that idea. The body has a large sensor, pretty stunningly fast electronics on-board, contains the AF mechanism which must be considerable if reports of AF speed are correct, and it also has a pretty large battery inside. The camera isn't too big, you are too unimpressed with what you get for that size....which is a shame.

Difficult to judge if it could be smaller with these specs. But I'm surprised (comparing with some other cameras) there wasn't even room for an EVF ... I guess that's not so much because there wasn't any space left, but more likely because it allows Canon to extract some extra money from the customers ;-(

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tkbslc
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Re: G1X MII or RX100II?
In reply to technic, 5 months ago

technic wrote:

howardroark wrote:

Catalin Stavaru wrote:

phazelag wrote:

I have been moving toward smaller cameras for a while now and I really do like the concept of the G1X M2, but the fact that its only 12.8 mega pixels in my opinion really lowers its potential.

I know the megapixel police will be cursing me, but I think 14-16 would have been excellent. I have my Ricoh GR at 16 and it is nice to be able to crop to zoom. This where I think many buyers looking for high quality in their pocket will be more likely to choose the Sony RX100 or RX100II. Yes I am guessing the G1X will have nicer high ISO photos, but really how much better and how often will that be necessary compared to wanting the details in the 20MP Sony.

Plus the Sony truly does fit in your pocket. I think Canon has done something nice, but they have limited the potential buyers by holding back newer sensor pixel ratios. If this used the 70D sensor technology it could be 15MP and that would be more to work with.

I will wait to see the photos and reviews, but I do feel like canon held back on us.

-- hide signature --

The 12.8 megapixels does not lower its potential at all, but instead keeps the pixels big and the APS-C image quality from the smaller than APS-C sensor.

The problem with the G1X II is the size. It's just too big. And the size does not come from the lens only, they just made the body unnecessarily big (maybe indeed to balance out the lens).

You think they made the body larger than it needed to be to balance out the lens? I'm going to bet on a categorical no to that idea. The body has a large sensor, pretty stunningly fast electronics on-board, contains the AF mechanism which must be considerable if reports of AF speed are correct, and it also has a pretty large battery inside. The camera isn't too big, you are too unimpressed with what you get for that size....which is a shame.

Difficult to judge if it could be smaller with these specs. But I'm surprised (comparing with some other cameras) there wasn't even room for an EVF ... I guess that's not so much because there wasn't any space left, but more likely because it allows Canon to extract some extra money from the customers ;-(

Other cameras you are comparing to don't have an F2 zoom designed for a 1.9x crop sensor!

Look how big Samsung's F2 zoom is:

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