The more you know (about great photography) the less pictures you take?

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
DenWil
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I am OK with that delusion.
In reply to meland, 9 months ago

meland wrote:

DenWil wrote:

I always go to those lengths. It is simply the process. I have driven hundreds of miles in a pick up truck with furniture and and a model to be on a dry lake bed in the middle of nowhere at 5 in the afternoon. Other times I am simply in my own back yard. My gear is relatively low priced at this point - that's is simply timing- but the gear is crucial ,very crucial to the quality of my images. An entry level DSLR will not produce comparable product.

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denniswilliams

I fear you are probably deluding yourself - but that's OK if you think your gear is that important. But bear in mind that most entry level DSLRs produce better results than the most expensive equipment of say 6 or 7 years ago and there were more than a few good images produced on those.

If I am deluding myself to believe that the results from highly optimized 67 MF film is better than results from an entry level DSLR then I am at least in very, very good, and very well paid  company.

I guess the  continuing career and  lifestyle just enable and fuel my delusion. I am OK with that.

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denniswilliams

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DFPanno
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But gear IS important…….
In reply to meland, 9 months ago

meland wrote:

DenWil wrote:

I always go to those lengths. It is simply the process. I have driven hundreds of miles in a pick up truck with furniture and and a model to be on a dry lake bed in the middle of nowhere at 5 in the afternoon. Other times I am simply in my own back yard. My gear is relatively low priced at this point - that's is simply timing- but the gear is crucial ,very crucial to the quality of my images. An entry level DSLR will not produce comparable product.

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denniswilliams

I fear you are probably deluding yourself - but that's OK if you think your gear is that important. But bear in mind that most entry level DSLRs produce better results than the most expensive equipment of say 6 or 7 years ago and there were more than a few good images produced on those.

The delusion lies in thinking it isn't.

Dream of capturing x in a fish-eye image?  Guess what - you need an appropriate lens.

Dream of a portrait of your wife with that FF 1.2 look?  Ain't gonna get it with a 1.8 on a FF let alone a crop.

Want to make the most of you post-processing?  Not avaible if you a refering to a Dell TN panel you bought in 1998.

The key is not to suggest that gear isn't important.  It is to stress that you should concentrate on making the most of what you have; whatever that might be.

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meland
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Re: But gear IS important…….
In reply to DFPanno, 9 months ago

DFPanno wrote:

meland wrote:

DenWil wrote:

I always go to those lengths. It is simply the process. I have driven hundreds of miles in a pick up truck with furniture and and a model to be on a dry lake bed in the middle of nowhere at 5 in the afternoon. Other times I am simply in my own back yard. My gear is relatively low priced at this point - that's is simply timing- but the gear is crucial ,very crucial to the quality of my images. An entry level DSLR will not produce comparable product.

-- hide signature --

denniswilliams

I fear you are probably deluding yourself - but that's OK if you think your gear is that important. But bear in mind that most entry level DSLRs produce better results than the most expensive equipment of say 6 or 7 years ago and there were more than a few good images produced on those.

The delusion lies in thinking it isn't.

Dream of capturing x in a fish-eye image? Guess what - you need an appropriate lens.

Dream of a portrait of your wife with that FF 1.2 look? Ain't gonna get it with a 1.8 on a FF let alone a crop.

Want to make the most of you post-processing? Not avaible if you a refering to a Dell TN panel you bought in 1998.

The key is not to suggest that gear isn't important. It is to stress that you should concentrate on making the most of what you have; whatever that might be.

You are right of course but he was talking about DSLRs not lenses.

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trale
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Re: The more you know (about great photography) the less pictures you take?
In reply to trale, 9 months ago

Thank you for your thoughtful responses, everyone. It's certainly a lot to think about (yeah yeah, I know some of you advocate "think less, shoot more").

As jrtrent pointed pointed out, it is useful to consider photographs in light of their respective "categories". I take casual shots for memories sake, as everyone else does. The only disconnect comes from when in the past I thought I was taking a great shot with artistic merit (not just for memories sake), now when I look back at them and find them lacking.

As a consequence of going through this stage of learning, if it becomes an inevitable trade-off that I take less photos in the aristic/creative category, but the ones I do take is higher quality, I suppose I can live with this tradeoff.

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meland
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Re: I am OK with that delusion.
In reply to DenWil, 9 months ago

DenWil wrote:

meland wrote:

DenWil wrote:

I always go to those lengths. It is simply the process. I have driven hundreds of miles in a pick up truck with furniture and and a model to be on a dry lake bed in the middle of nowhere at 5 in the afternoon. Other times I am simply in my own back yard. My gear is relatively low priced at this point - that's is simply timing- but the gear is crucial ,very crucial to the quality of my images. An entry level DSLR will not produce comparable product.

-- hide signature --

denniswilliams

I fear you are probably deluding yourself - but that's OK if you think your gear is that important. But bear in mind that most entry level DSLRs produce better results than the most expensive equipment of say 6 or 7 years ago and there were more than a few good images produced on those.

If I am deluding myself to believe that the results from highly optimized 67 MF film is better than results from an entry level DSLR then I am at least in very, very good, and very well paid company.

I guess the continuing career and lifestyle just enable and fuel my delusion. I am OK with that.

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denniswilliams

Well fine, since you bringing 6x7 into it then I don't disagree.

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Klaus dk
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Fiction, not fact!
In reply to DFPanno, 9 months ago

DFPanno wrote:

Klaus dk wrote:

pavi1 wrote:

lumigraphics wrote:

pavi1 wrote:

Photography is a lot like music. The more you know about it the less of it you enjoy.

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Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planning
WSSA #44

I believe the complete opposite about both. What a dreary, jaded outlook.

It is not an outlook, it is a fact of life.

Maybe it's a fact of your life, not of mine.

The problem here is that pavi1 did not take the time to outline the foundation of his statement. In fact he is generally right with regard to most people if not you in particular.

Truth - The greater one becomes aware of the mechanics the more distant they become to the magic.

This is true whether you are an editor, musician, or visual artist.

If this is not a concept that you have been exposed to before it is worth reading about as it can impact your artistic endeavors.

Does this mean, that if one wants to develop artistically and preserve the "magic", one should shun learning the craft forming the basis for the art? That doesn't make any sense to me.

Having dabbled in photography for more than 40 years, I am glad this comes to me so late that I can dismiss the thought as being ridiculous, fact or fiction.

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DFPanno
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Re: But gear IS important…….
In reply to meland, 9 months ago

meland wrote:

DFPanno wrote:

meland wrote:

DenWil wrote:

I always go to those lengths. It is simply the process. I have driven hundreds of miles in a pick up truck with furniture and and a model to be on a dry lake bed in the middle of nowhere at 5 in the afternoon. Other times I am simply in my own back yard. My gear is relatively low priced at this point - that's is simply timing- but the gear is crucial ,very crucial to the quality of my images. An entry level DSLR will not produce comparable product.

-- hide signature --

denniswilliams

I fear you are probably deluding yourself - but that's OK if you think your gear is that important. But bear in mind that most entry level DSLRs produce better results than the most expensive equipment of say 6 or 7 years ago and there were more than a few good images produced on those.

The delusion lies in thinking it isn't.

Dream of capturing x in a fish-eye image? Guess what - you need an appropriate lens.

Dream of a portrait of your wife with that FF 1.2 look? Ain't gonna get it with a 1.8 on a FF let alone a crop.

Want to make the most of you post-processing? Not avaible if you a refering to a Dell TN panel you bought in 1998.

The key is not to suggest that gear isn't important. It is to stress that you should concentrate on making the most of what you have; whatever that might be.

You are right of course but he was talking about DSLRs not lenses.

OK.

The one thing that I think makes a huge difference with the current cameras is that the DR is so much better.  I look at my indoor/low light shots now and find that for all practical purposes they are as clean as my outdoor shots.  I really appreciate that aspect.

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Lanidrac
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Be yourself
In reply to trale, 9 months ago

Getting hints from others can be good, but always experiment and just shoot. If you know what you like to shoot, just keep doing it. Don't always listen to what they say you should do because they are usually trying to make a buck telling what to do. Its like an art teacher telling you how to paint - utter crap. Be yourself and experiment with your cam and len's.

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Ron Poelman
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Re: this stage of learning
In reply to trale, 9 months ago

trale wrote:

As a consequence of going through this stage of learning, if it becomes an inevitable trade-off that I take less photos in the aristic/creative category, but the ones I do take is higher quality, I suppose I can live with this tradeoff.

there's a difference between self-flagellation and learning.
If your current stuff is better than your old stuff, GOOD !!!.
Now you're learning.
Put back that navel lint,
you're spending way too much time there.

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absentaneous
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Re: The more you know (about great photography) the less pictures you take?
In reply to trale, 9 months ago

there are so many ways and approaches in photography that it's hard to even mention all. these two guys are just advocating one of them.

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lumigraphics
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Re: The more you know (about great photography) the less pictures you take?
In reply to pavi1, 9 months ago

pavi1 wrote:

lumigraphics wrote:

pavi1 wrote:

Photography is a lot like music. The more you know about it the less of it you enjoy.

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Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planning
WSSA #44

I believe the complete opposite about both. What a dreary, jaded outlook.

It is not an outlook, it is a fact of life.

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Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planning
WSSA #44

Well then you have a dreary, jaded life. Some of us choose to enjoy our limited days here. I know a lot more about music than when I was a kid and enjoy it a lot more. Same with photography. Maybe your problem has to do with that silly sig you have regarding planning? I tend to find that people who over-emphasize planning are anal to the point of being sour and unable to have any fun. Try being spontaneous and try enjoying life. Because I gotta say, it must suck having less fun than me.

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lumigraphics
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Re: Actually he is right…….
In reply to DFPanno, 9 months ago

DFPanno wrote:

Klaus dk wrote:

pavi1 wrote:

lumigraphics wrote:

pavi1 wrote:

Photography is a lot like music. The more you know about it the less of it you enjoy.

-- hide signature --

Everything happens for a reason. #1 reason: poor planning
WSSA #44

I believe the complete opposite about both. What a dreary, jaded outlook.

It is not an outlook, it is a fact of life.

Maybe it's a fact of your life, not of mine.

The problem here is that pavi1 did not take the time to outline the foundation of his statement. In fact he is generally right with regard to most people if not you in particular.

Truth - The greater one becomes aware of the mechanics the more distant they become to the magic.

This is true whether you are an editor, musician, or visual artist.

If this is not a concept that you have been exposed to before it is worth reading about as it can impact your artistic endeavors.

That's even stupider than the original statement. It's part of my job to MAKE the magic, and understanding how much skill and talent goes into it helps me appreciate the work that others do. Maybe YOU have a disconnect from that but I sure don't and I know enough talented artists to believe that people who are actually great are all about the passion.

If you don't have any passion but are simply a mechanical practitioner, then yeah I guess you might run into that. But you'll never be an artist anyway.

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unknown member
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Well said n/t
In reply to lumigraphics, 9 months ago

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NexOffender
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Re: The more you know (about great photography) the less pictures you take?
In reply to Lumixdude, 9 months ago

Lumixdude wrote:

Well, living in Australia there's not much else to do once you get out of the city than shoot landscapes. I go to the one street in my town that looks semi-developed sometimes and shoot shoot street photography.

This is such a pessimistic way of looking at things, you can find photo opportunities anywhere. I live in Sydney and I have access to plenty of iconic photo locations, but I've never shot any of them. I spend most of my time in a small patch of weeds in my backyard taking macro photos of bugs. I don't agree that you need a great location to take a great photo, most of my best photos could have been taken anywhere, and I bring my own light.

Sometimes, the type of photography you do is simply dictated by the scenery that's around you. I wish there was cool statues and old things around here, but it's the laws of history when your country is 200 years old, there's simply not much of that around.

Who cares about history? That stuff has already been recorded. Photography is about documenting what's happening now. In Australia we have people, animals, trees, cars, and buildings just like anywhere else. There's plenty of things to take a picture of.

Maybe your problem is that you are trying to do photography just for the sake of photography. A lot of people get into photography because of their passion for something else. Jocks get into sport photography, nerds do lunar photography, jockeys do horse photography, and bogans do car race photography. What else are you interested in?

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Mike CH
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One opinion among many
In reply to DFPanno, 9 months ago

DFPanno wrote:

Truth - The greater one becomes aware of the mechanics the more distant they become to the magic.

At most a personal truth, but certainly not a universal one.

In other words, I sincerely disagree. In the sense that to me, depending on the situation, it can be exactly opposite.

Regards, Mike
--
Wait and see...

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Aberaeron
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Re: The more you know (about great photography) the less pictures you take?
In reply to trale, 9 months ago

While photography can be artistic and inspiring, it is primarily the freezing of a moment in time. Always have that thought with you. If shooting landscapes, shoot the different seasons from the same point. Take a series of images before a new road or diversion, during its construction and afterwards. Same with cityscapes.

People also alter with time, and not just children either. So while composing and taking the best images you can, always have in mind that you are recording a bit of history and that the image captured will never be quite the same again.

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Bervilat
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Re: The more you know (about great photography) the less pictures you take?
In reply to trale, 9 months ago

OMFG I tried to watch the video you mentioned, I'm on 8 minutes plus of only small talk and now they called a break? And the video is more than one hour... 
Maybe there is some usefull information buried in this video, but I simply give up of this BS.

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Klaus dk
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Video comment
In reply to Bervilat, 9 months ago

Bervilat wrote:

OMFG I tried to watch the video you mentioned, I'm on 8 minutes plus of only small talk and now they called a break? And the video is more than one hour...
Maybe there is some usefull information buried in this video, but I simply give up of this BS.

You're right, I watched it almost to the end, fell asleep a couple of times on the way.

There are so many good books out there, why waste your time with videos full of chit-chat?

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unknown member
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In reply to Klaus dk, 9 months ago

did you even watch it?

I just read the comments and didn't bother

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jrtrent
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I liked it.
In reply to Bervilat, 9 months ago

Bervilat wrote:

OMFG I tried to watch the video you mentioned, I'm on 8 minutes plus of only small talk and now they called a break? And the video is more than one hour...
Maybe there is some usefull information buried in this video, but I simply give up of this BS.

In terms of my use and enjoyment of photography, they weren't speaking to my interests or concerns, nor did I always agree with what they considered to be great pictures, but the show itself was, I thought, well-paced and the hosts personable and engaging.  It was an enjoyable hour and twelve minutes for me, and fun to hear photography discussed from a perspective other than my own.

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