What would more MP mean to you ?

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
nick_webster
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What would more MP mean to you ?
9 months ago

I've seen so many threads over the years in all the forums about how people want more MPs in their cameras - see the first page on this forum for at least 3 threads

At first I could see some point - going back to 5MP or less days - but now I really struggle to see much point in more MP. There are quite a few downsides that most don't seem to consider, including but not limited to ...

Poorer battery life - lots more electrons to push about

Need for faster, higher capacity cards

Slower FPS - can be also mechanically limited

Slower write times, may miss shots if the buffer is full

Slower processing on the computer

More expenisve lenses that can resolve that detail

It gets harder to get pixel sharp photos as any camera movement/shutter vibration is effectively magnified.

In my experience, at normal viewing distances, you can't see a lot of difference even in 40cmx50cm ( 16x20 in the old money ) prints after about 10MP.

Don't know if the failure rate of sensors is higher for higher density chips but if so that would increase sensor costs as well.

On the plus side i can't think of a great deal except better ability to crop - but unless you're printing large and cropping extensively then I fail to see that more MP would bring any discernible difference - and who crops that much/prints that large on any regular basis ? If you're cropping that much on a regular basis then I'd suggest you are using the wrong focal length lens

Yes, at 100% you can see some differences, but I don't believe that translates into a better photo in most cases.

So why the clamour for more ? I'd like to hear why people want more and also if you are happy with what you have - MP wise. Feel free to show examples if you feel that will help your argument for or against

Nick

Keit ll
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Re: What would more MP mean to you ?
In reply to nick_webster, 9 months ago

If you don't want a higher resolution sensor then it would be very wrong to force you to have one but you seem to be determined to prevent others from having one as well !

Sensors have got more dense over the years & there have always been arguments saying that more MP were not needed but as technology has got better so has average image quality. Other sensor characteristics such as DR etc need to improve but that is also happening.

The limits are getting closer but new technology will always have surprises so settle back & enjoy the ride

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DocetLector
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Re: What would more MP mean to you ?
In reply to nick_webster, 9 months ago

I don`t think you will get too many answers because if you look at this forum, people are mainly complaining about NOT having enough megapixels. Not many posts about having enough MP´s - those people are out taking fotos with their cameras.

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Les Lammers
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Re: What would more MP mean to you ?
In reply to nick_webster, 9 months ago

It would mean nothing to me and *I* think 16MP is the sweet spot for APS. Need more? Go FF and deal with the issues that entails. 'Mo ain't always better.

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historianx
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Absolutely nothing.
In reply to Les Lammers, 9 months ago

I agree.  I would rather see advances in processor technology than more MPs.  But then Im a p/t working pro that doesnt fall into the consumerist trap of more MP means better pictures.  After all, doesnt the D4 sport 16MP?   16MP seems to be the perfect number not just for APS-C, but 4/3 as well.

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nick_webster
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Not forcing anybody into anything
In reply to Keit ll, 9 months ago

I'm not sure how you read that intent into my post, and I'm certainly not against improvements in areas such as DR, AF speed and accuracy. I just don't see the point in having more MP and I notice you didn't come up with an argument either for or against

Nick

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howielenny
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Re: What would more MP mean to you ?
In reply to nick_webster, 9 months ago

For the size of images I print a 12mp camera is more than enough. Largest prints I've done are 24"x16" and I've got several prints that size with a 12mp camera that look fantastic. I use a Nikon D7100 and Fuji XM-1 and just done a test print of an almost identical image one with the fuji at 16mp and one with the d7100 at 24mp and both printed at 19"x13" on my Canon ix6550. To my eyes apart from a slight difference in colour there is no visible difference between the two. So as I say for me at least, I certainly don't need any more than 16mp to produce easily up to 24"x16" prints which is the largest prints I would want to print.

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Al Valentino
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Re: What would more MP mean to you ?
In reply to Les Lammers, 9 months ago

Les Lammers wrote:

It would mean nothing to me and *I* think 16MP is the sweet spot for APS. Need more? Go FF and deal with the issues that entails. 'Mo ain't always better.

Exactly! I would be interested in a new 16mp sensor with more DR, and would certainly pass for a 24mp sensor with the same or similar DR as it brings no advantage at all for me personally. Plus, i would need a faster computer. More pixels is most often nothing more than a marketing ploy to recruit those that simply think more is better and will upgrade. Most of those people actually think the ratio of pixels is directly related to print size. It is not, that ratio is linear, not about area. So 24mp, assuming same quality of pixels, can make a print 25% bigger, not 50% bigger.

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Les Lammers
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Re: Absolutely nothing.
In reply to historianx, 9 months ago

I live in Florida and always have a waterproof P&S around One of the best for IQ was a 7mp Pentax. The IQ on these beasts has decreased as the MP increased. Not sure about the sensor size but I think 6MP was optimal.

7 MP Pentax snap below.

7 MP Ricoh snap above.

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Clayton1985
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Re: What would more MP mean to you ?
In reply to nick_webster, 9 months ago

With your logic I wonder why people aren't complaining about 16mp. Wouldn't a 10mp sensor provide more of the same benefits that you're claiming you get from a 16mp sensor? Which begs the question... who made the completely subjective decision to declare 16mp the sweet spot? I declare 24mp the new sweet spot. I've determined that anything over 24 is overkill. If you want more than 24mp then you are required to sign a statement verifying that you print large at least 17% of the time. You must also verify that you crop less than 10% of the time or provide an explanation of why you didn't buy and include more lenses in your bag to minimize cropping. I think designating 24mp as the new sweet spot leaves plenty of room to make fun of the 36mp and 54mp idiots of the world (at least the ones that aren't willing to sign the sworn statement).

But the biggest benefit of updating the sweet spot to 24mp now is that you won't have to eat your words when you buy the 24mp Fuji X next year.

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57LowRider
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Re: What would more MP mean to you ?
In reply to howielenny, 9 months ago

Bigger printing and smaller cropping, I suppose. And more noise.

My ex-gf does lovely stuff with her 5D and that's 12MP isn't it? It gets kind of meaningless unless you quantum leap into MF-sized sensors. Anyway, I've no complaints at all about 16MP APS-C.

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nick_webster
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And your argument is ... ?
In reply to Clayton1985, 9 months ago

Not sure whether you are for or against more MP - perhaps you could come up with a more cogent post ?

I never said 16MP was the "sweet spot". I asked why people are asking for more MP. I won't need to eat my words if I buy a camera with more MP because I would be buying it for features other than it's MP count - the increased MP would probably be a factor against buying one, but if it had other things I wanted I might overlook that.

Nick

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unknown member
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Re: What would more MP mean to you ?
In reply to nick_webster, 9 months ago

Nothing to me. I think the level of equivalence as far as IQ goes was reached a long time ago for a lot of uses.

One of the things that puts me of FF is the file size, processing and exporting hundreds / thousands of images takes time and a lot of disk space; for some worlflows keeping a level on that is more important than any minor increase in res.

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John Motts
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Re: What would more MP mean to you ?
In reply to nick_webster, 9 months ago

I use 12mp D700s for weddings and they are absolutely fine. I have some 20x30 prints in front of me, some from shots taken in low light, and they look superb.

If the same resolution (well, better actually) as Nikon's flagship D4 is not enough for you then I think you must be blaming the wrong thing for your problems.

If you compare well processed results from Fuji's 16mp sensor with those from a 24mp sensor with AA filter, you'll see little if no difference in resolution.

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nixda
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I want more
In reply to nick_webster, 9 months ago

As primarily a landscape shooter, I'd be very interested in higher pixel densities, as long as the IQ doesn't suffer.

I think the sweet spot for APS-C is 24 MP, not 16 MP.

All the 'disadvantages' you have listed will be made up for by improvements in the respective areas. For example, files get bigger, so do hard drives; it takes more time to write, but processors get faster, so it won't; existing lenses are good enough, for the most part, etc.

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Lyle From Canada
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Re: I want more
In reply to nixda, 9 months ago

I was just thinking to myself what this forum needs is another megapixel thread.........

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Les Lammers
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Re: What would more MP mean to you ?
In reply to stimpy, 9 months ago

Exactly.

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Clayton1985
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Re: And your argument is ... ?
In reply to nick_webster, 9 months ago

nick_webster wrote:

Not sure whether you are for or against more MP - perhaps you could come up with a more cogent post ?

I never said 16MP was the "sweet spot". I asked why people are asking for more MP. I won't need to eat my words if I buy a camera with more MP because I would be buying it for features other than it's MP count - the increased MP would probably be a factor against buying one, but if it had other things I wanted I might overlook that.

Nick

I'm just playing around a bit trying not to get too serious on what has always been a sensitive subject. But to answer your question - in general, my experience with higher mp sensors has been positive with very few of the negatives that you reference,however, I'm all for Fuji waiting a bit longer because I think we're almost to a place where you will get all of the benefits of 24mp and none of the negatives.

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Les Lammers
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Re: I want more
In reply to nixda, 9 months ago

nixda wrote:

As primarily a landscape shooter, I'd be very interested in higher pixel densities, as long as the IQ doesn't suffer.

I think the sweet spot for APS-C is 24 MP, not 16 MP.

All the 'disadvantages' you have listed will be made up for by improvements in the respective areas. For example, files get bigger, so do hard drives; it takes more time to write, but processors get faster, so it won't; existing lenses are good enough, for the most part, etc.

Maybe, maybe not. Personally. I'm thinking about a Sigma DP Merrill for landscape. Close to MF results for not a lot of $$$.

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jm10
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Re: What would more MP mean to you ?
In reply to nick_webster, 9 months ago

Larger files...

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