A6000 - losing touch

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
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Re: A6000 - losing touch
In reply to Euell, 9 months ago

Euell wrote:

No pro uses a touch screen. Ridiculous.

Stop making fun of yourself. It doesn't help your pointless point!

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Miki Nemeth
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Top Sony cameras (A7, A7R, A6000) no touch screen :(
In reply to sean lancaster, 9 months ago

sean lancaster wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

The use [of a touch screen] is in street or 'real' situations where you need to select your focus point in the shortest possible time and take the shot: compose your image (centre is by default already in focus) if the subject of interest is not in centre image then you simply have to touch the area you want to be in focus in the split second before you press the shutter

Exactly right for street work. On my Canon 6D, the solution is to shoot the center point and then later crop. I suspect this is what most street photographers do when there is no time to focus and recompose. But on my NEX 5N, the touch to set focus allows for more creativity in shooting without cropping.

Hi Sean (and Parallax), totally agree. The workaround I apply with my A7 is exactly the same as with 6D: magnify and focus center positioned and shoot on street, and crop-compose later in post processing. Here come the huge image files of FF cameras very handy. With the introduction of a decent touch screen into 70D Canon made a big step forward. Similarly, Nikon D5300 has decent touchscreen, too. It is really weird that Sony has not included a touch screen at least into the A6000 in 2014 . I can cope without a touch-screen, and I am not whining, but definitely I could exploit a touchscreen on my A7, and I'd adapt my shooting technique accordingly.

Miki

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Gato Amarillo
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Re: Touch LCD with EVF ???? Works for Panasonic
In reply to BertIverson, 9 months ago

BertIverson wrote:

120 to 35 wrote:

... But with all the excitement about focusing speed, I find it strange that the cameras do not feature a touch screen.

The large number of PDAF points spread all over the frame is a great idea. Yet the quick focus-selection touch tool is missing.

But phone cameras do not have EVF. How would I pick a focus point while looking through my EVF?

my 0.02
Bert

Works fine for me on my Panasonic -- I can use a finger on the screen to move the focus point while looking through the EVF. Takes a few minutes practice to get the hang of it, but after that it works fine.

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Seibertron
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Re: A6000 - losing touch
In reply to 120 to 35, 9 months ago

It is so good to see that others are frustrated by the lack of touch LCD screens on these cameras. It seems like such a simple solution that people who don't want a touch screen can disable that feature. The presence or lack of a touch screen is one of the most important decisions I'm making with my next camera purchase to replace my Sony Nex 5N.

The touch screen functionality allows me to take photos significantly faster than non-touch screen cameras with my line of work. I primarily take product photos of Transformers action figures. It is very important that I be able to tap the screen to focus on the toy's head. I take hundreds of photos of each toy (my galleries can be seen at http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/galleries/new/ ) ... the touch screen (and albeit the speed of the Nex 5 camera itself) enables me to plow through my work. I've been able to double the amount of galleries that I can add in a year's time than I was with previous Sony cameras such as the advanced Cybershot cameras like the HX-1.

I'm really bummed that only the replacement for the Nex 3, the a5000, will have a touch screen. If I've read up on my cameras correctly, the a6000 is the replacement for the Nex 5n/5t, and will unfortunately not have the touch screen. I just invested in the nice flash for my 5n which I was looking forward to carrying on to my next alpha/Nex e-mount camera. It seems silly to buy the 5t to replace a 5n but I think that's what I'm going to have to do because I'd like something nicer than the entry level camera comparable to a Nex-3.

Since January 2012:

Detected Camera model : NEX-5N
Shutter actuations made up to file DSC01079.JPG: 133349
| | | | Sony_Tag9050_0x0032 = 229
| | | | Sony_Tag9050_0x0033 = 8
| | | | Sony_Tag9050_0x0034 = 2
(65536 * 2) + (256 * 8) + 229 = 133349

As you can see above, I get quite a bit of use out of my cameras. The amount of work I can get done with a touch LCD versus one without is tremendous.

Manually selecting a focus point for each shot I do is a nightmare, but with a touch LCD it is a piece of cake!

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Helen
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Re: A6000 - losing touch
In reply to Seibertron, 9 months ago

Seibertron wrote:

It is so good to see that others are frustrated by the lack of touch LCD screens on these cameras. It seems like such a simple solution that people who don't want a touch screen can disable that feature. The presence or lack of a touch screen is one of the most important decisions I'm making with my next camera purchase to replace my Sony Nex 5N.

The touch screen functionality allows me to take photos significantly faster than non-touch screen cameras with my line of work. I primarily take product photos of Transformers action figures. It is very important that I be able to tap the screen to focus on the toy's head. I take hundreds of photos of each toy (my galleries can be seen at http://www.seibertron.com/transformers-toys/galleries/new/ ) ... the touch screen (and albeit the speed of the Nex 5 camera itself) enables me to plow through my work. I've been able to double the amount of galleries that I can add in a year's time than I was with previous Sony cameras such as the advanced Cybershot cameras like the HX-1.

I'm really bummed that only the replacement for the Nex 3, the a5000, will have a touch screen. If I've read up on my cameras correctly, the a6000 is the replacement for the Nex 5n/5t, and will unfortunately not have the touch screen. I just invested in the nice flash for my 5n which I was looking forward to carrying on to my next alpha/Nex e-mount camera. It seems silly to buy the 5t to replace a 5n but I think that's what I'm going to have to do because I'd like something nicer than the entry level camera comparable to a Nex-3.

Given that a touchscreen is very important to you, I thought I should just point out (though it sounds like you wouldn't go for that model anyway) that even the a5000 doesn't have one (referring to your paragraph above).  It's as though Sony is discontinuing the use of touchscreens in its interchangeable lens cameras, given that the 5R and 5T were downgraded to resistive screens after the 5N's capacitive one, and that none of the new releases seem to have them at all.

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sean lancaster
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Re: A6000 - losing touch
In reply to 120 to 35, 9 months ago

120 to 35 wrote:

Keit ll wrote:

I understand your preference for a touchscreen but one good point is that it will be possible to fit an extra protection screen to prevent the LCD deterioration which these cameras are prone to without compromising any function.

You can still buy the Sony PCK-LM13 semi-hard protector screen for the NEX-5R touch screen.

There are protective screens for phones too.

I bought the NEX 5N the day it was released. I placed the semi-hard protective screen on my 5N and never had any problem with touch. My screen is perfect still today 2.5 years later.

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BertIverson
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Re: A6000 - touch vs center AF and recompose ...
In reply to 120 to 35, 9 months ago

120 to 35 wrote:

... We often need to choose the focus point among two possible ones, while the camera generally selects the closer face or object or the one with more contrast (often the nearest lamppost or window frame). And we need to do this in a split second.

You are correct to want a touch screen to suit your style of shooting. Sony should have it and make it switchable.

However, on this forum, you have many camera users who basically use center point AF. You put the focus frame on the subject, half-press, recompose and press shutter. It is fast and allows both hands on the camera to steady it. Of course, why not offer both AF procedures to suit everyone. (I assume it is inexpensive as all phones use it)

Cheers,
Bert

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Seibertron
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Re: A6000 - losing touch
In reply to Helen, 9 months ago

Helen wrote:

Given that a touchscreen is very important to you, I thought I should just point out (though it sounds like you wouldn't go for that model anyway) that even the a5000 doesn't have one (referring to your paragraph above). It's as though Sony is discontinuing the use of touchscreens in its interchangeable lens cameras, given that the 5R and 5T were downgraded to resistive screens after the 5N's capacitive one, and that none of the new releases seem to have them at all.

According to Sony's specs, the a5000 will have one, but the a6000 unfortunately will not.

http://store.sony.com/a5000-camera-with-16-50mm-lens-zid27-ILCE5000L//cat-27-catid-All-Alpha-a5000-Cameras;pgid=.8dku_Q0LcNSRpWFTqsrxmHS0000xEvmwkx1;sid=efdjQxbnpe1sQ0XgHjPDR47tFrsmMnmrPIbQuHvS?vva_ColorCode=BC009&_t=pfm%3Dcategory

Change your view with a tiltable LCD touchscreen that flips up 180-degrees without sacrificing compactness. See what you're shooting no matter where the camera is to take stunning self-portraits, perfectly framed low angle shots, and incredibly precise compose pictures.

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Chad Hardy
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Re: A6000 - losing touch
In reply to 120 to 35, 9 months ago

To be honest I don't think the screen is big enough for touch, because people would expect them to drive menu selections as well.

Touch maybe on less expensive cameras, but come on, we should know how to focus with the ring people!

Just my humble opinion, I understand the reasons many like touch.  I kind of think about it like the reason Apple hasn't released a larger iPhone.  It doesn't make ergonomic sense.

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120 to 35
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Re: A6000 - losing touch
In reply to Chad Hardy, 9 months ago

Chad Hardy wrote:

To be honest I don't think the screen is big enough for touch, because people would expect them to drive menu selections as well.

Touch maybe on less expensive cameras, but come on, we should know how to focus with the ring people!

Just my humble opinion, I understand the reasons many like touch. I kind of think about it like the reason Apple hasn't released a larger iPhone. It doesn't make ergonomic sense.

Many people who use touch screen are experienced users, including pro photographers, who can use the camera in different ways but still prefer the touch screen for at least some types of shooting. You will find a few posts in this thread from users describing how they use it.

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sean lancaster
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Re: A6000 - losing touch
In reply to 120 to 35, 9 months ago

120 to 35 wrote:

Chad Hardy wrote:

To be honest I don't think the screen is big enough for touch, because people would expect them to drive menu selections as well.

Touch maybe on less expensive cameras, but come on, we should know how to focus with the ring people!

Just my humble opinion, I understand the reasons many like touch. I kind of think about it like the reason Apple hasn't released a larger iPhone. It doesn't make ergonomic sense.

Many people who use touch screen are experienced users, including pro photographers, who can use the camera in different ways but still prefer the touch screen for at least some types of shooting. You will find a few posts in this thread from users describing how they use it.

Chad, it's not just for shooting. After I take a shot, I can review the shot and zoom in instantly anywhere I touch to check focus/details. As it stands, I now zoom in and then use the little wheel button to move the area displayed on the screen; very cumbersome.

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tecnoworld
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Re: A6000 - losing touch
In reply to 120 to 35, 9 months ago

I agree with you. One can focus and recompose, but touh to focus or to move focus point is much faster and allows me to frame the image better.

The a6000 could have been the camera that could make me move away from the samsung nx system (since it has better af, better sensor, better form factor, better price than comparable nx cameras), but the lack of touch is a dealbreaker for me.

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Bart Hickman
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Now that they fixed the serious problems, I agree...
In reply to 120 to 35, 9 months ago

The lack of wireless flash and increasing uncompetitive AF were much more serious deficits IMO and I'm encouraged that they focused (no pun intended) on those.

Now that they appear to have those things in the bag, I think it would be appropriate for them to boost their investments in their UI which would include things like a touch screen (both for AF selection and GUI navigation.)

Bart

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Bart Hickman
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Re: Touch focus
In reply to parallaxproblem, 9 months ago

parallaxproblem wrote:

J Yohan wrote:

I tried my friends' MFT cameras with touch focus/release. Along with their fast AF, things felt impossibly easy. Touch where you want to focus, camera focuses, snaps. Done. No focus recompose, no moving focus points with buttons.

When NEX 6 came out, I think I read someone from Sony explain that NEX 6 is aimed at enthusiast who may be "beyond" touchscreen (i paraphrasing big time here).

But then again, why not add it? no one is forcing you to use it.

Now, I've had cameras (NEX 7, A7) which don't have touch screens. But if the AF on A6000 is as fast as they claim, I'd probably take advantage of the touch screen.

Yes, there are two totally different points in this thread that are getting confused

1. Do we want to use a touch-screen to control the menus and camera settings?

2. Do we find the touch-focus feature useful?

I personally am more happy pressing buttons to control menus and camera settings as I like the tactile feedback, so for me 'no' to point 1, but I don't want to deny that experience to others

I personally find the touch-focus feature incredibly useful. It was one of my principal reasons for choosing the NEX-5R over the NEX-6 and I don't regret that decision so 'yes' to point 2 for me

I agree that the resisitive touchscreen implementation on the NEX-5R is not as good as a capacitive one (though it does allow the use of gloves) but still find the feature very useful and the interface dialogue well managed making it easy and effective to use

I think if people tried touch-focus then most would like it... but then they may not be satisfied with their non-touchscreen camera afterwards

I think either or both are valuable.  I have the Metz 52 flash head for my NEX-6, and it has a very basic touch screen interface which I really like.  I wish they'd gone even further with it.

Bart

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bigley Ling
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Re: A6000 - losing touch
In reply to sean lancaster, 9 months ago

sean lancaster wrote:

120 to 35 wrote:

Keit ll wrote:

I understand your preference for a touchscreen but one good point is that it will be possible to fit an extra protection screen to prevent the LCD deterioration which these cameras are prone to without compromising any function.

You can still buy the Sony PCK-LM13 semi-hard protector screen for the NEX-5R touch screen.

There are protective screens for phones too.

I bought the NEX 5N the day it was released. I placed the semi-hard protective screen on my 5N and never had any problem with touch. My screen is perfect still today 2.5 years later.

The nex 5n has a different touch screen to the nex 5r. The 5n touch screen is capacitive so even when I installed a GGS protective glass infront, the touch screen works perfectly. The 5r on the other hand has a far less responsive touch screen that is resistive. The only advantage of resistive is that you can use the touch screen with gloves on, or with any pointed object.

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bigley Ling
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Re: A6000 - losing touch
In reply to bryanchicken, 9 months ago

bryanchicken wrote:

I went from phone to compact to m43 to a NEX 5R.

Other than the phone the 5R is the only one with a touch screen, and i rarely use it, even though the 5R doesn't have an EVF. With an EVF the touch screen becomes even less important.

The only time I use the touch screen on the 5r is when using "play memories" apps as using the on screen touch keyboard is far easier than cycling through alphabets and numbers using dials and buttons.

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wizard8080
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Re: A6000 - losing touch
In reply to 120 to 35, 8 months ago

Yes, Sony, please make one with a capacitive touchscreen.  The lack of it makes me look at other cameras like the NX300.  It's 2014, the age of social media.  Posting photos online without a touchscreen for text input is practically a deal breaker.

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cxsparc
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Re: A6000 - losing touch
In reply to parallaxproblem, 8 months ago

parallaxproblem wrote:

Riquez wrote:

How do you look into an EVF & avoid your nose touching the screen?

Touch screen switches-off when the EVF activates (which it does automatically when your face gets close to it because of a proximity sensor), at least that is what happens on the NEX-5R with external EVF fitted

You also have the option to have the touchscreen permanently switched-off if you don't like it

No downsides to touchscreens (capacative ones anyway, resistive ones reduce IQ slightly because of the extra layer). I don't understand why they aren't fitted to all Sony cameras

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I do. The touchscreen on my 5N is not bad and sometimes helpful for fast focus point selection or playback zoom,

BUT: when I wear sunglasses ist frequently switches to LCD panel and detects my nose as a touching finger, either selecting absurd focus points or goung into playback zoom on its own.

Also, I can't understand why sometimes when raising the camera to my eye-EVF, the EVF displays "This operation is not allowed in this mode" because my nose touched why the camera apparently was busy switching from LCD to EVF. This message is just stupid because if it knows the EVF is activated, it could simply ignore this press as it does when the EVF is on and you touch the LCD.

Also, compared to a phone, the swiping on the 5N touchscreen is very inaccurate.

So do I miss it when going to the A6k? Maybe sometimes, but you can surely get used to it.

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mrmpal
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Re: A6000 - losing touch
In reply to 120 to 35, 4 months ago

Thank you for bringing this up--it's gratifying to read that others miss the touchscreen, too.

One of the reasons I switched to mirror less is because I was sick of  AF errors on my 40D and 1D MkII N. I knew there would be compromises, but since the image is being focused on the sensor, at least the subject would be in focus when the camera said it was.

I haven't used an a6000, but I've owned a 5N, 5R, 6, and a Fuji X-E1.  As others have pointed out, it isn't necessarily the touchscreen (or lack thereof) that's the issue, but rather that Sony has a very sub-par method for changing focus point. A touchscreen makes up for this shortcoming, and allows you to take advantage of the excellent face- detection (and metering!) while enabling you to instantly override and choose someone's eye, etc. with touch. Take away the touchscreen, and it falls apart. Any modern DSLR lets you pick focus point by tapping a d-pad. The X-E1 required a down press first, but I was okay with that after some practice.  Sony's method makes muscle memory impossible--I've read that the A7 has a better implementation, but the NEX / axxxx series simply requires too much fiddling to be useful. And you can't even quickly center the AF point!

So I agree with you--Sony's lack of meaningful firmware updates ensures that this won't be fixed on their crop-sensor bodies (at any price point), which is maddening, as I love the sel50f18 and Sony's excellent video capabilities.

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ace and jocelyne
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Re: A6000 - losing touch
In reply to mrmpal, 4 months ago

Thank you for bringing this up--it's gratifying to read that others miss the touchscreen, too.

One of the reasons I switched to mirror less is because I was sick of  AF errors on my 40D and 1D MkII N. I knew there would be compromises, but since the image is being focused on the sensor, at least the subject would be in focus when the camera said it was.

I haven't used an a6000, but I've owned a 5N, 5R, 6, and a Fuji X-E1.  As others have pointed out, it isn't necessarily the touchscreen (or lack thereof) that's the issue, but rather that Sony has a very sub-par method for changing focus point. A touchscreen makes up for this shortcoming, and allows you to take advantage of the excellent face- detection (and metering!) while enabling you to instantly override and choose someone's eye, etc. with touch. Take away the touchscreen, and it falls apart. Any modern DSLR lets you pick focus point by tapping a d-pad. The X-E1 required a down press first, but I was okay with that after some practice.  Sony's method makes muscle memory impossible--I've read that the A7 has a better implementation, but the NEX / axxxx series simply requires too much fiddling to be useful. And you can't even quickly center the AF point!

So I agree with you--Sony's lack of meaningful firmware updates ensures that this won't be fixed on their crop-sensor bodies (at any price point), which is maddening, as I love the sel50f18 and Sony's excellent video capabilities.

The a6000 is my first proper camera for getting into this hobby. I thought I'd miss the touch screen of my phone and cheapo camera but I don't, suprisingly. I've set a shortcut button to focus automatically on the eye and a little green square appears on the subject's eye right before I shoot. All this without taking my eye off the EVF which is easier to use in sunlight that the lcd of my previous noob camera. Although the option would've been nice for others who need it, but I can now say that if I had the choice I'd most likely turn it off.

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