Banding : Lightroom related?

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CeleryBeats
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Banding : Lightroom related?
7 months ago

I have noticed this issue on several other images. It heavely depends on the light and subject. Some of my 6400 iso shots didn't have this as much for example.

This is from lightroom: I brightened the image to make it clear for you. I took it in Silky pix and the issue seems to be more controlled but that program is not for me.

Also note that the image was pretty much exposed like this. The brightness lifting was done in photoshop so the banding was already present as is post lightroom export.

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57even
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Re: Banding : Lightroom related?
In reply to CeleryBeats, 7 months ago

CeleryBeats wrote:

I have noticed this issue on several other images. It heavely depends on the light and subject. Some of my 6400 iso shots didn't have this as much for example.

This is from lightroom: I brightened the image to make it clear for you. I took it in Silky pix and the issue seems to be more controlled but that program is not for me.

Also note that the image was pretty much exposed like this. The brightness lifting was done in photoshop so the banding was already present as is post lightroom export.

I cannot see any, but it may be your monitor. What kind do you have?

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CeleryBeats
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Re: Banding : Lightroom related?
In reply to 57even, 7 months ago

Hey!

I have use a DELL u2713hm and a samsung 2493hm.

Visible on both here. Maybe it's my eyes!

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57even
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Re: Banding : Lightroom related?
In reply to CeleryBeats, 7 months ago

CeleryBeats wrote:

Hey!

I have use a DELL u2713hm and a samsung 2493hm.

Visible on both here. Maybe it's my eyes!

OK, then I don't know, unless you were in an 8bit colour space and have the contrast set high.

Was this a JPEG or RAW? (I don't have banding issues at all in RAW).

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Travelshooter
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Re: Banding : Lightroom related?
In reply to CeleryBeats, 7 months ago

Sorry, I don't see any banding either.  I'm looking on a Samsung 27" calibrated LCD monitor.

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wchutt
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Re: Banding : Lightroom related?
In reply to CeleryBeats, 7 months ago

I don't see any banding either.

However gross under exposure of the sensor (ISO 6400) combined with lifting shadows in post processing increases the odds for revealing banding if it actually is present. I often saw banding at ISOs above 1600 with the X100 when the shadows were pushed beyond the brightness my eyes saw.

I have not seen banding with my X-Pro 1 .

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PrebenR
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Re: Banding : Lightroom related?
In reply to 57even, 7 months ago

57even wrote

I cannot see any, but it may be your monitor. What kind do you have?

I can see the banding. It is most likely sensor related, but depending on post processing how visible it gets.

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CeleryBeats
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Re: Banding : Lightroom related?
In reply to wchutt, 7 months ago

wchutt wrote:

I don't see any banding either.

However gross under exposure of the sensor (ISO 6400) combined with lifting shadows in post processing increases the odds for revealing banding if it actually is present. I often saw banding at ISOs above 1600 with the X100 when the shadows were pushed beyond the brightness my eyes saw.

I have not seen banding with my X-Pro 1 .

mm. Makes me me wonder if my sensor is perhaps deffected. I'm very well aware of the effects when lifting shadows. Though this scene is merely slightly decontrasted and a tad shadow lifted in post.

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CeleryBeats
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Re: Banding : Lightroom related?
In reply to CeleryBeats, 7 months ago

Sorry for this. Goes my pretty image

Exposure LIFTED alot here just to show the patterns.

Can anyone please confirm if they have this banding when lifting exposure.

I don't mind noise. It's merely about the patterns visible. Because if this banding on my files (even when lifting shadows or whatever) is unussual i'd like to take my XE-2 to the shop.

Thanks in advance!

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noyo
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Re: Sensor
In reply to CeleryBeats, 7 months ago

CeleryBeats wrote:

I have noticed this issue on several other images. It heavely depends on the light and subject. Some of my 6400 iso shots didn't have this as much for example.

Based on the thread title I initially thought you had a problem with brightening an under-exposed shot as this has been the well discussed classic reason for the sort of thing often called banding.

I had to look very hard but I could see some very slight banding on your image as initially posted, but it is there. The one you have subsequent posted makes it obvious, although as stated this used to be considered an issue with brightening up under-exposures.

I had a look at several of my own images taken recently on my own X-M1 with black to white gradients and including some ISO 200 and several ISO 6400 shots.

I compared SOOC jpegs, Silkypics jpegs from RAW and LR5 jpegs from RAW. I cannot see anything resembling what you have.

I played with the levels to brighten up the dark areas and I cannot see what you have.

I now suspect that your sensor is suspect, albeit only very slightly, and would be tempted to send a copy of your images to Fuji to get their opinion.

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Sal Baker
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Re: Banding : Lightroom related?
In reply to CeleryBeats, 7 months ago

I don't usually shoot at ISO 6400, but your image made me curious.

I just took an X-E2 shot at 6400 and converted the RAF file in Capture One.  I lifted the shadows 100% and increased exposure way beyond anything useable.  Before and after shots below and a crop.  I don't see anything but noise.  Your shot may indicate a problem in the camera.

Hope this helps...

RAW image as shot in camera

Shadows lifted 100% and increased exposure in Capture One

Crop (Capture One)

Sal

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Re: Banding : Lightroom related?
In reply to Sal Baker, 7 months ago

Interesting Sal....

*grabs popcorn

My money is on a defective sensor maybe

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Sal Baker
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Re: Banding : Lightroom related?
In reply to Sal Baker, 7 months ago

Sal Baker wrote:

I don't usually shoot at ISO 6400, but your image made me curious.

I just took an X-E2 shot at 6400 and converted the RAF file in Capture One. I lifted the shadows 100% and increased exposure way beyond anything useable. Before and after shots below and a crop. I don't see anything but noise. Your shot may indicate a problem in the camera.

Hope this helps...

RAW image as shot in camera

Shadows lifted 100% and increased exposure in Capture One

Crop (Capture One)

Sal

Here's the same dark ISO 6400 RAF image (crop) converted in LR5.3...

Shadows lifted +100 and increased exposure

Sal

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57even
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Re: Banding : Lightroom related?
In reply to CeleryBeats, 7 months ago

CeleryBeats wrote:

Sorry for this. Goes my pretty image

Exposure LIFTED alot here just to show the patterns.

Can anyone please confirm if they have this banding when lifting exposure.

I don't mind noise. It's merely about the patterns visible. Because if this banding on my files (even when lifting shadows or whatever) is unussual i'd like to take my XE-2 to the shop.

Thanks in advance!

OK I see what you mean now - I was looking at the first image in daylight but in a dark room it shows up more.

This sometimes happens when there is some source of electrical interference nearby. Possibly also an issue with the memory card.

Try a few other shots and if possible a different card.

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Zardoz
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Re: Banding : Lightroom related?
In reply to CeleryBeats, 7 months ago

It's very clear in this shot, so much for those with "calibrated" monitors.

However, here's a shot with the same exposure but at ISO 6400 with 5EV of lift. Lots of noise, but no structural pattern like your image has:

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CeleryBeats
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Re: Banding : Lightroom related?
In reply to Zardoz, 7 months ago

Ok thanks alot guys. It clearly seems something is wrong (related) with my camera then. I'll try a different memory card as someone suggested and otherwise take my camera to fuji for surgery.

Again, thanks alot!

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Sal Baker
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Re: Banding : Lightroom related?
In reply to CeleryBeats, 7 months ago

Was that shot taken in an airport?  If so, does this interference occur in images away from airports?  You couldn't find a more concentrated amount of RF, microwave, etc. than in an air terminal.

I'm not saying the camera is working properly, but this might explain why the problem comes and goes.

Sal

CeleryBeats wrote:

Sorry for this. Goes my pretty image

Exposure LIFTED alot here just to show the patterns.

Can anyone please confirm if they have this banding when lifting exposure.

I don't mind noise. It's merely about the patterns visible. Because if this banding on my files (even when lifting shadows or whatever) is unussual i'd like to take my XE-2 to the shop.

Thanks in advance!

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FBoneOne
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Re: Banding : Lightroom related?
In reply to CeleryBeats, 7 months ago

I think that's wise. What I like about my XP1 is that it shows no banding, even at 6400 - plenty of luminance noise at that ISO but no banding unlike my older canons (and even the 1Dmk4 but that kicks in at higher ISOs).

Did you try downloading a trial version f C1 or photoninja to compare and rule out a converter issue?

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CeleryBeats
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Re: Banding : Lightroom related?
In reply to FBoneOne, 7 months ago

FBoneOne wrote:

I think that's wise. What I like about my XP1 is that it shows no banding, even at 6400 - plenty of luminance noise at that ISO but no banding unlike my older canons (and even the 1Dmk4 but that kicks in at higher ISOs).

Did you try downloading a trial version f C1 or photoninja to compare and rule out a converter issue?

Working on that. Got a trial of Aperture now. SilkyPix does show the issue as well.

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wchutt
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Re: Banding : Lightroom related?
In reply to CeleryBeats, 7 months ago

Extreme increases in luminance (5 EV for instance) can reveal artifacts when the sensor's analog signal to noise ratio is extremely low due to high ISO settings. ISO 6400 underexposes the sensor by 5 stops compared to the base ISO (300).

Then you amplify the noise by increasing the shadow region brightness by another 5 stops.

Is anyone surprised artifacts can be seen with a 10 stop disadvantage compared to an optimal exposure of the same scene at ISO 200?

Fujifilm just can't produce a proper sensor and data stream that is artifact free when abused by 10 stops.

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