Your opinion on Blu-Ray?

Started 7 months ago | Polls
CAcreeks
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Your opinion on Blu-Ray?
7 months ago

Steve Jobs disliked Blu-Ray ("bag of hurt") and Apple still doesn't support it well. You can buy a Windows PC with Blu-Ray drive, usually as an extra-cost option. Blockbuster is gone and relatively few consumers buy Blu-Ray movies. Nonetheless Blu-Ray seems good for archiving, with better theoretical longevity than DVD.

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Shame it failed.
14.3% 3  votes
Good riddance!
19.0% 4  votes
Au contraire, it hasn't failed. Please explain.
66.7% 14  votes
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hotdog321
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Re: Your opinion on Blu-Ray?
In reply to CAcreeks, 7 months ago

I routinely backup my media on a combo of Blu-ray and external hard drives. The Blu-ray is stashed with the assignment paperwork in standard hanging files; the hard drive is there for quick retrieval.

I'm a PC guy and don't much care about Mac, though they sure are pretty!

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DuaneV
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Re: Your opinion on Blu-Ray?
In reply to CAcreeks, 7 months ago

Blu-Ray is out!?  That's news to me.

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lemon_juice
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Re: Your opinion on Blu-Ray?
In reply to CAcreeks, 7 months ago

CAcreeks wrote:

Steve Jobs disliked Blu-Ray ("bag of hurt") and Apple still doesn't support it well. You can buy a Windows PC with Blu-Ray drive, usually as an extra-cost option. Blockbuster is gone and relatively few consumers buy Blu-Ray movies. Nonetheless Blu-Ray seems good for archiving, with better theoretical longevity than DVD.

I generally like optical discs because they are practical for cheaply storing chunks of data in different pieces - for example, I have a film or a collection of photos and I have it on a disc and can give it, send it to someone or store on the shelf for archiving. They also have convenient format for putting them into a box and there is space on them for labelling. And they are something physical that I can really own as opposed to "cloud". There are quite a number of such small details in which they have advantage over other media available today.

I don't own a blu-ray drive yet as I don't need so much archival storage now so I use dvds - but I'm waiting for the m-disc blu-ray discs to appear and then I'm planning to get one. I think blu-rays are great for archiving provided the amount of data to manage isn't huge.

However, I don't really like what has happened with blu-ray movies. The number of protections, the fact that you need to have all pieces of your equipment compatible with some blu-ray decoding mechanism is some kind of joke. It's as if the creators of blu-ray didn't really want people to buy blu-ray and invented all kinds of obstacles and annoyances to make our lives harder. This is the reason why I'm not in any hurry to buy blu-ray for films since I'm not going to throw away my good monitor and my computer that performs very well for me just because blu-ray has some absurd requirements and the companies treat me as a thief from day one. Sure, if I were an avid fan of watching films at home then I'd sure go for it but I'm not. I'll use my time for more useful activities and go to the cinema instead.

So for me it's mixed bag. On one hand it's a great format for storing data and I wish it improved with its capacities but on the other hand the big companies has applied so many restrictions to this format for film distribution that I'm not really convinced that if I buy a film on a blu-ray then I really own it.

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CAcreeks
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Re: archiving, movies
In reply to lemon_juice, 7 months ago

lemon_juice wrote:

I generally like optical discs because they are practical for cheaply storing chunks of data in different pieces - for example, I have a film or a collection of photos and I have it on a disc and can give it, send it to someone or store on the shelf for archiving.

Same here. I would hesitate to rely on Lightroom, or any product from a company with an unknown future, to store a database of my images. Much easier to put each trip on 2 optical discs, storing one at home and one elsewhere.

I'm waiting for the m-disc blu-ray discs to appear...

Did not know about this, thank you. You probably know that DVD+-R has shorter lifespan than good CDR, which is why my vote was "it's a shame."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M-DISC

However, I don't really like what has happened with blu-ray movies.

Movies in general are far less entertaining now than TV, especially streamed on demand via Netflix. IMO. And Blu-Ray's "bag of hurt" is not helping the movie industry.

Maybe Blu-Ray is viable just for archiving?

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Glen Barrington
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I don't have an opinion on Blu-Ray. . .
In reply to CAcreeks, 7 months ago

To be honest, it was never on my tech radar.  It just wasn't (and still isn't) something I've ever cared about one way or the other.

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malch
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Re: Your opinion on Blu-Ray?
In reply to lemon_juice, 7 months ago

lemon_juice wrote:

I generally like optical discs because they are practical for cheaply storing chunks of data in different pieces - for example, I have a film or a collection of photos and I have it on a disc and can give it, send it to someone or store on the shelf for archiving. They also have convenient format for putting them into a box and there is space on them for labelling. And they are something physical that I can really own as opposed to "cloud". There are quite a number of such small details in which they have advantage over other media available today.

When the CD was first introduced, I thought it was the greatest thing since sliced bread and bought one the first (and rather expensive) CD players. For me it eliminated the vinyl scratches and the tape hiss.

But in more recent years, my experience with optical disks in general has been way less than stellar and I came dislike them. More importantly, I started to mistrust them for data.

So now I've pretty much eliminated optical disks from my life. All of my music CD's, movies, and data disks have been copied to hard drives and I love not having to deal with the old optical disks.

I dislike the things and the per disk storage capacity is too small to be really useful or convenient.

AFAIK, few BluRay movie disks are being sold and BluRay doesn't seem to be moving forward. So as far as I'm concerned, it's pretty much dead.

USB3 drives have hugely more capacity and they're enormously faster and easier to store. I wish one could buy drives with a longer life expectancy but copying my data to a new drive with full verification every 3-5 years isn't a huge hassle.

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SushiEater
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Re: Your opinion on Blu-Ray?
In reply to CAcreeks, 7 months ago

Only Blu-ray can hold 1080p movie plus additional stuff and disks are getting cheaper and cheaper.

The problem is with BD players. Very few of them are problem free, just take a look at reviews on Amazon. I think it is because manufacturers are trying to stuff these with lots of features and something that complex bound to break.

As far as archiving, I use BDs but with a great caution. I had several of them die on me after 6 months. The worst one is Memorex which I traced to Ridata as a maker. The best one is Verbatim.

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CAcreeks
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Re: Your opinion on Blu-Ray?
In reply to malch, 7 months ago

With the LG 14x SATA Blu-Ray burner selling for $70, and blank discs about $1 each, the economics are compelling for anybody who likes a disc-based workflow. Except you will have to send a CD or DVD to friends or customers, because they probably won't have a Blu-Ray drive.

malch wrote:

But in more recent years, my experience with optical disks in general has been way less than stellar and I came dislike them. More importantly, I started to mistrust them for data.

I think DVDs are way less reliable than CDs ever were, and the accelerated aging tests agree. This could be why you came to the conclusion you did.

I dislike the things and the per disk storage capacity is too small to be really useful or convenient.

Yes, even 25GB is not huge if you shoot Raw. But Blu-Ray reportedly has far more longevity than DVD.

USB3 drives have hugely more capacity and they're enormously faster and easier to store.

We have had several USB sticks fail, so I am a believer in SD or micro SD cards, instead.

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DenWil
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Love it.
In reply to CAcreeks, 7 months ago

I've never used Blu-Ray for storage. I have hundreds of B-R movies and the  home viewer can currently do  no better,  particularly when it comes to audio.  All my equipment from Sony flat  panels to 7.1 audio  shakes hands fairly seamlessly,  including the Apple TV .

I have evolved  thru  VHS to laserdisc to DVD,  HD-DVD and Blu-Ray   and while Laura or The Maltese Falcon  may not  benefit fully from the evolution,  The Black Knight  or the recently released RUSH   are the perfect content for Blu-Ray HD  digital delivery.  I am most entertained.

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Sean Nelson
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Re: Your opinion on Blu-Ray?
In reply to CAcreeks, 7 months ago

CAcreeks wrote:

Nonetheless Blu-Ray seems good for archiving, with better theoretical longevity than DVD.

I don't like BluRay for archiving because of (a) its limited storage capacity compared to hard drives, which leads to (b) a lot of manual effort to deal with bulk data.

IMHO you need two or more copies, one of which is stored offsite, for really good data protection.   But just as important is periodic checks that your media is readable.   If one of your copies goes bad you need to find out about it before the other copy(ies) go(es) bad so that you can recover.

With my hard drive backups I simply plug in the drive and let the computer take its time verifying my backup checksums while I attend to other matters.   It's easy, so I do it every month when I rotate my long term backups.

I can't do that for BluRay discs because of all the manual handling that would be involved.  I'd have to swap out from 30 to 60 discs to verify the 3TB worth of data I currently have archived.  I wouldn't do that regularly, which means the integrity of my data would be a lot less certain.

Yes, hard drives are subject to mechanical failure.  But BluRay disks are subject to failure too, and the ability to easily verify the hard drives gives them the edge for data integrity IMHO.

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chillzatl
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Re: Your opinion on Blu-Ray?
In reply to CAcreeks, 7 months ago

Jobs didn't like bluray because he was pushing an online audio/video service and went out of his way to crap on any physical media.

For movies, it's still the best thing going. None of the HD streaming solutions come close to it in quality.

For data, it's just like CD or DVD, but bigger. Far more reliable long term than a hard disc. Sure it doesn't have the GB per dollar that an HDD does, but you can't be serious about archival data storage and using hard drives. Tape is still king in that department, but the drives and media that come close to matching the capacity we typically have these days are out there... so for the rest of us, optical is the best overall option.

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kelpdiver
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Re: Your opinion on Blu-Ray?
In reply to lemon_juice, 7 months ago

lemon_juice wrote:

However, I don't really like what has happened with blu-ray movies. The number of protections, the fact that you need to have all pieces of your equipment compatible with some blu-ray decoding mechanism is some kind of joke. It's as if the creators of blu-ray didn't really want people to buy blu-ray and invented all kinds of obstacles and annoyances to make our lives harder. l.

You don't have a player, but you're convinced they're impossible to use?    I've had quite a few, starting with the PS3 8 years ago.  Never had a complication.  The copy protection schemes are broken within days of release.  If I wanted to give up the space on my NAS, I could rip blu-rays to disk, and then play on my media devices.   No, this is not really a legitimate complaint, unless DVDs are boycotted for CSS, and VHS for Macrovision.

Blu-ray adoption continues to pace ahead of DVD, though I think that will not be maintained as enough people switch to streaming models.  But the quality suffers considerably, and that's why many still opt for the optical disk, with bit rates 2-6 times higher than you see with Netflix.  In the US, broadband just isn't keeping pace, and it falls further with UHD.

It's fairly hard now going back to DVD, just as it's nearly impossible to watch a SD movie on TV.

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SushiEater
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Re: Your opinion on Blu-Ray?
In reply to kelpdiver, 7 months ago

kelpdiver wrote:

lemon_juice wrote:

However, I don't really like what has happened with blu-ray movies. The number of protections, the fact that you need to have all pieces of your equipment compatible with some blu-ray decoding mechanism is some kind of joke. It's as if the creators of blu-ray didn't really want people to buy blu-ray and invented all kinds of obstacles and annoyances to make our lives harder. l.

You don't have a player, but you're convinced they're impossible to use? I've had quite a few, starting with the PS3 8 years ago. Never had a complication. The copy protection schemes are broken within days of release. If I wanted to give up the space on my NAS, I could rip blu-rays to disk, and then play on my media devices. No, this is not really a legitimate complaint, unless DVDs are boycotted for CSS, and VHS for Macrovision.

Really!!!! Did you break Cinavia?

Blu-ray adoption continues to pace ahead of DVD, though I think that will not be maintained as enough people switch to streaming models. But the quality suffers considerably, and that's why many still opt for the optical disk, with bit rates 2-6 times higher than you see with Netflix. In the US, broadband just isn't keeping pace, and it falls further with UHD.

Streaming doesn't always allow for multiple sound sources like Dolby True HD or DTS HD plus. That is why I am buying everything on BD.

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malch
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Re: Your opinion on Blu-Ray?
In reply to chillzatl, 7 months ago

chillzatl wrote:

For movies, it's still the best thing going.

Maybe it is if you're a movie studio. From the standpoint of the consumer it pretty much sucks.

The combination of these newer optical disks and a blue laser do offer greater recording densities than the DVD's they were intended to replace.

The remainder of the BluRay related standards are purely concerned with Digital Rights Management and the desire of the copyright holders to control what you can and cannot do with that premium priced disk you just bought. If you cut through all of the motion picture industry propaganda, there's practically nothing in it from the consumer perspective.

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CAcreeks
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Re: Your stats on BR adoption?
In reply to kelpdiver, 7 months ago

kelpdiver wrote:

Blu-ray adoption continues to pace ahead of DVD ...

At first I did not believe this, but found a graph showing it was the case. The study was done in 2008, although they extrapolated data to 2011. Bogus.

There's another graph here showing Blu-Ray players are in 20% of households, versus 85% for DVD and 75% for HDTV.

http://excapite.blogspot.com/2014/01/hello-isnt-it-time-for-upgrade.html

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CAcreeks
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Re: Your opinion on Blu-Ray?
In reply to malch, 7 months ago

malch wrote:

chillzatl wrote:

For movies, it's still the best thing going.

Maybe it is if you're a movie studio. From the standpoint of the consumer it pretty much sucks.

I agree with Malch here.

I do not want to own most movies. How am I supposed to rent a Blu-Ray movie nowadays? Wait for it to reach the top of my Netflix queue, then hope I am still interested when the BR disc finally arrives in the mail?

Much easier to select streaming on Netflix. Their UI is superbly friendly Who cares about surround sound and widescreen? Most shows are equally entertaining with low video quality.

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malch
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Re: Your opinion on Blu-Ray?
In reply to CAcreeks, 7 months ago

CAcreeks wrote:

I do not want to own most movies. How am I supposed to rent a Blu-Ray movie nowadays? Wait for it to reach the top of my Netflix queue, then hope I am still interested when the BR disc finally arrives in the mail?

Much easier to select streaming on Netflix. Their UI is superbly friendly Who cares about surround sound and widescreen? Most shows are equally entertaining with low video quality.

Sadly, the movie industry appears to have learned the square root of sweet nothing from the music industry when it comes to distribution. They still no clue what consumers really want and need. And, once again, the only people addressing consumer needs are the pirates.

Wouldn't it be great if we could download a movie in full HD with 5/7-channel audio to a disk drive and be able to play it on any computer or TV in the house? It's not only feasible -- all of the necessary hardware and software is readily available and very inexpensive. So is the content even if the available sources are all illegal.

The only obstacle is the movie industry business model.

To be fair, it's not just Hollywood. The cable TV and consumer electronics industries aren't much better. Next up: TV makers will be pushing 4K on us. Maybe they can even lobby congress for a mandate (like digital TV)? Can't wait to see how they expect to produce or deliver any content. 3D worked out so well, right?

Given the enormity of the combined market size, you'd really think this set of industries would have their act together, just a tiny bit.

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gs85739az
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Re: Your opinion on Blu-Ray?
In reply to CAcreeks, 7 months ago

CAcreeks wrote:

Steve Jobs disliked Blu-Ray ("bag of hurt") and Apple still doesn't support it well. You can buy a Windows PC with Blu-Ray drive, usually as an extra-cost option. Blockbuster is gone and relatively few consumers buy Blu-Ray movies. Nonetheless Blu-Ray seems good for archiving, with better theoretical longevity than DVD.

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Still haven't bought or rented a BR disc or player!

Like Windows ME, really, how long will it be around?
Gary

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glasswave
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Re: The you tube generation....
In reply to CAcreeks, 7 months ago

CAcreeks wrote:

Steve Jobs disliked Blu-Ray ("bag of hurt") and Apple still doesn't support it well. You can buy a Windows PC with Blu-Ray drive, usually as an extra-cost option. Blockbuster is gone and relatively few consumers buy Blu-Ray movies. Nonetheless Blu-Ray seems good for archiving, with better theoretical longevity than DVD.

They just don't care how good their media is, as long as there is lots of it.  Mp3's sound like crap compared to CD's but I can have 10,000 songs. Reality TV sucks, but I have 200 channels of it. Streaming vids look like junk, but I can stream 1000's of vids.

Nobody's watching true 1080p yet they think we'll alll go buy 4k tv sets to watch 720p signals through cable or netflix which is often only upsamples from 480p.

When I was young, we wanted nice stereos in our cars because they sounded good. Now they just want to get a boomy car stereo to get other people to look at em.

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