D800 or d800e??

Started 10 months ago | Discussions
Copter01
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D800 or d800e??
10 months ago

Hi

I am a Amateur, mainly landscape photographer. I don't upgrade often, but when i do i buy decent gear that will last me.

i am about to upgrade from a D200 to a D800 but not sure whether to get the e. usually reviews are sufficient, but it is difficult to quantify the difference between the two. I have a few questions?

- Reviews say that Moire, at least problematic moire is rare on the e. Is that peoples experience here?

- i have decent lenses, and wish to be able to print, periodically, pretty big. At what size, and at what apertures do people find the difference between the two can be identified.

- is there much of a difference in quantity of sharpening needed for the 800 vs e?

thanks in advance for responses.

Nikon D200 Nikon D800 Nikon D800E
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iJoost
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Re: D800 or d800e??
In reply to Copter01, 10 months ago

Differences (both moire and extra detail) are minimal and only present from apertures F/5.6 down.

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JF69
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if you have to ask,
In reply to Copter01, 10 months ago

just get the D800, you'll be happy. The differences are not that great between the two.

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Photec
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Re: D800 or d800e??
In reply to Copter01, 10 months ago

I have to agree, I also feel that in your case (as in mine) the D800 would be the better choice. Depending on your particular workflow and PP hardware the camera will produce images that can be printed any size you want with no problems.

You stated that you want to print large prints, the 36MP files will certainly enable you to do that. You will not see any real differences to speak of between the D800 and D800e at print sizes to 40X60. At normal viewing distances prints from either camera will look phenominal. Good luck with it.

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Robin Casady
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Re: D800 or d800e??
In reply to Copter01, 10 months ago

Copter01 wrote:

Hi

I am a Amateur, mainly landscape photographer. I don't upgrade often, but when i do i buy decent gear that will last me.

i am about to upgrade from a D200 to a D800 but not sure whether to get the e. usually reviews are sufficient, but it is difficult to quantify the difference between the two. I have a few questions?

- Reviews say that Moire, at least problematic moire is rare on the e. Is that peoples experience here?

With landscape shooting, extremely rare. With cityscapes a little more common. However, the moiré difference between the D800E and the D800 is small. If you get moiré with a D800E you are likely to get it with the D800, just a little less pronounced. If you don't get it on the D800 it will be subtle on the D800E.

- i have decent lenses, and wish to be able to print, periodically, pretty big. At what size, and at what apertures do people find the difference between the two can be identified.

I haven't printed enough D800 images to quantify that. Looking at images at 100% on screen, the differences are noticeable, but subtle, at f/8 and wider.

A D800/E image produces a print that is approximately 20x30" at 240 ppi. which is an optimum resolution for Epson printers. I have an Epson 7800 that uses 24" wide rolls of paper or canvas.

- is there much of a difference in quantity of sharpening needed for the 800 vs e?

Yes.

I went with a D800E. I didn't see the point of buying a high-resolution camera that has its image accutance degraded. If I were shooting weddings, I might have gone for the D800, but I shoot mostly landscapes and macros. With the D800E I know I am getting the sharpest image possible.

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soloryb
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Re: D800 or d800e??
In reply to Copter01, 10 months ago

I've had the D800E for almost 2-years, having graduated from a D200 and then a D700. I shoot a lot of landscapes and make 17" by up to 27" cropped/enlarged prints, sometimes to a high degree. With all those megapixels at your disposal, the D800/E just begs you to do this and I find it hard to resist.

As far as I've read - and there's lots of comparisons out there - the differences between the D800 and the D800E are not terribly significant. The only reason I went for the 'E' is because I do so much enlarging and felt it worth the extra $300.  However, since I don't have the D800 to compare output, I can't say for sure how much of a resolution boost there really is. I can tell you that I have yet to see even a hint of moire and my prints come out raiser-sharp.

Most people don't have both cameras (like me) and cannot give you a definitive answer. I would suggest that you search on-line for actual comparison photos between the two and listen to opinions of photographers who do have both cameras before you make up your mind.

The good part is that no matter which one you choose you'll end up with one fantastic camera.

soloryb

Copter01 wrote:

Hi

I am a Amateur, mainly landscape photographer. I don't upgrade often, but when i do i buy decent gear that will last me.

i am about to upgrade from a D200 to a D800 but not sure whether to get the e. usually reviews are sufficient, but it is difficult to quantify the difference between the two. I have a few questions?

- Reviews say that Moire, at least problematic moire is rare on the e. Is that peoples experience here?

- i have decent lenses, and wish to be able to print, periodically, pretty big. At what size, and at what apertures do people find the difference between the two can be identified.

- is there much of a difference in quantity of sharpening needed for the 800 vs e?

thanks in advance for responses.

 soloryb's gear list:soloryb's gear list
Fujifilm FinePix X100 Nikon D800E Nikon AF-S Nikkor 24-70mm f/2.8G ED Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR II Nikon AF Fisheye-Nikkor 16mm f/2.8D +9 more
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nikonuserinfo
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Used D800 and D800e for months side by side...
In reply to Copter01, 10 months ago

Copter01 wrote:

Hi

I am a Amateur, mainly landscape photographer.

Go for "e"

I don't upgrade often, but when i do i buy decent gear that will last me.

i am about to upgrade from a D200 to a D800 but not sure whether to get the e. usually reviews are sufficient, but it is difficult to quantify the difference between the two. I have a few questions?

I was using both D800 and D800e for months side by side. You can read my findings here and here.

- Reviews say that Moire, at least problematic moire is rare on the e. Is that peoples experience here?

I was afraid of that, but it's not a problem at all. Only for fashion photographers I would advice the normal D800.

I tested especially in studio for moire while shooting clothing. Capture NX2 RAW processing also helps to get rid of occasional moire.

- i have decent lenses, and wish to be able to print, periodically, pretty big. At what size, and at what apertures do people find the difference between the two can be identified.

Wide open while shooting quality glass D800e images are significantly sharper.

- is there much of a difference in quantity of sharpening needed for the 800 vs e?

D800e used with high quality lenses often doesn't need sharpening at all.

thanks in advance for responses.

It was a pleasure.

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Stany
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Stany Buyle
Photoforfun

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Araucaria
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Re: D800 or d800e??
In reply to Copter01, 10 months ago

Go for the E, the non E was just made to avoid retarded forum posts. I have the non E because I couldnt find a decent prized E. You wont need sharpening with the E.

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Leonard Shepherd
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Re: D800 or d800e??
In reply to Copter01, 10 months ago

Most manufactures new bodies, including several Nikon 24 MP, do not have an AA filter.

The original purpose of an AA filter was to reduce (as distinct from eliminate) the greater risk of moire the low MP bodies. The more MP the less the chance of moire being an issue.

The D800e was the first DSLR with "no AA filter" though purists know in the D800e there is an AA filter and a second filter to remove the AA filter effect.

It is a safe bet when the D800 eventually gets updated there will be only one option with no AA filter.

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Leonard Shepherd
Great images are often of good subjects.
If they are great images does what lens, body or technique was used matter more than the skill of the photographer?

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Reilly Diefenbach
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Re: D800 or d800e??
In reply to Copter01, 10 months ago

Copter01 wrote:

Hi

I am a Amateur, mainly landscape photographer. I don't upgrade often, but when i do i buy decent gear that will last me.

i am about to upgrade from a D200 to a D800 but not sure whether to get the e. usually reviews are sufficient, but it is difficult to quantify the difference between the two. I have a few questions?

- Reviews say that Moire, at least problematic moire is rare on the e. Is that peoples experience here?

- i have decent lenses, and wish to be able to print, periodically, pretty big. At what size, and at what apertures do people find the difference between the two can be identified.

- is there much of a difference in quantity of sharpening needed for the 800 vs e?

thanks in advance for responses.

I recommend the "e" for landscape for sure.

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soloryb
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Re: D800 or d800e??
In reply to Robin Casady, 10 months ago

Robin,

You said 240 ppi is an optimum resolution for the Epson 7800. I've always read that all Epsons print at an optimum resolution of 360 ppi or 720 ppi. I assume you mean the ppi value you send to the printer.

soloryb

Robin Casady wrote:

Copter01 wrote:

Hi

I am a Amateur, mainly landscape photographer. I don't upgrade often, but when i do i buy decent gear that will last me.

i am about to upgrade from a D200 to a D800 but not sure whether to get the e. usually reviews are sufficient, but it is difficult to quantify the difference between the two. I have a few questions?

- Reviews say that Moire, at least problematic moire is rare on the e. Is that peoples experience here?

With landscape shooting, extremely rare. With cityscapes a little more common. However, the moiré difference between the D800E and the D800 is small. If you get moiré with a D800E you are likely to get it with the D800, just a little less pronounced. If you don't get it on the D800 it will be subtle on the D800E.

- i have decent lenses, and wish to be able to print, periodically, pretty big. At what size, and at what apertures do people find the difference between the two can be identified.

I haven't printed enough D800 images to quantify that. Looking at images at 100% on screen, the differences are noticeable, but subtle, at f/8 and wider.

A D800/E image produces a print that is approximately 20x30" at 240 ppi. which is an optimum resolution for Epson printers. I have an Epson 7800 that uses 24" wide rolls of paper or canvas.

- is there much of a difference in quantity of sharpening needed for the 800 vs e?

Yes.

I went with a D800E. I didn't see the point of buying a high-resolution camera that has its image accutance degraded. If I were shooting weddings, I might have gone for the D800, but I shoot mostly landscapes and macros. With the D800E I know I am getting the sharpest image possible.

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Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
—Mark Twain

 soloryb's gear list:soloryb's gear list
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carlk
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Re: D800 or d800e??
In reply to Copter01, 10 months ago

I agree with what most people here say.  the E is the standard model.  None E is a delete option for people who have some special reasons or just want to save a few hundred dollars.

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Copter01
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Re: Used D800 and D800e for months side by side...
In reply to nikonuserinfo, 10 months ago

nikonuserinfo wrote:

Copter01 wrote:

Hi

I am a Amateur, mainly landscape photographer.

Go for "e"

I don't upgrade often, but when i do i buy decent gear that will last me.

i am about to upgrade from a D200 to a D800 but not sure whether to get the e. usually reviews are sufficient, but it is difficult to quantify the difference between the two. I have a few questions?

I was using both D800 and D800e for months side by side. You can read my findings here and here.

- Reviews say that Moire, at least problematic moire is rare on the e. Is that peoples experience here?

I was afraid of that, but it's not a problem at all. Only for fashion photographers I would advice the normal D800.

Itested especially in studio for moire while shooting clothing. Capture NX2 RAW processing also helps to get rid of occasional moire.

- i have decent lenses, and wish to be able to print, periodically, pretty big. At what size, and at what apertures do people find the difference between the two can be identified.

Wide open while shooting quality glass D800e images are significantly sharper.

- is there much of a difference in quantity of sharpening needed for the 800 vs e?

D800e used with high quality lenses often doesn't need sharpening at all.

thanks in advance for responses.

It was a pleasure.

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Stany
http://www.nikonuser.info
My former Dpreview profiles ( For which I do not have the Original email address anymore)
Stany Buyle
Photoforfun

Thanks all for the responses. This is definitely pushing me in the direction of the 'e' which is the direction i was inclining to already. either way i am looking forward to the improvement over the D200

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Simon Garrett
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Re: D800 or d800e??
In reply to Copter01, 10 months ago

See http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/nikon-d800-d800e and especially the pages that compare the two. Some quotes:

"At F2.8, the slight blurring from lens aberrations is sufficient to narrow the gap between the D800 and D800E to the point you'd probably not be able to see any real difference in normal shooting. It's only at the lens's very sharpest apertures, i.e. F4 - F5.6, that the difference between the D800 and D800E is really pronounced. The latter gives clearly higher contrast, but at the expense of the more-prominent moiré that we noted earlier."

"Simply put, with optimum sharpening applied to raw files from both cameras, the D800E still nudges ahead of the D800, albeit by a very narrow margin, and one that is arguably academic for normal everyday photography."

"In the 100% crops above, you can see that edge detail is slightly more 'crisp' in the D800E. It's hard to argue that the D800E is providing more actual detail - the D800's resolution is very impressive in its own right - but edges are a bit more clearly defined in the D800E. You can also see, however, the presence of color artifacts in the D800E that are either absent or significantly reduced in the D800."

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Simon

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Devendra
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i have D800E, but it will be 2yrs old soon
In reply to Copter01, 10 months ago

Copter01 wrote:

Hi

I am a Amateur, mainly landscape photographer. I don't upgrade often, but when i do i buy decent gear that will last me.

i am about to upgrade from a D200 to a D800 but not sure whether to get the e. usually reviews are sufficient, but it is difficult to quantify the difference between the two. I have a few questions?

- Reviews say that Moire, at least problematic moire is rare on the e. Is that peoples experience here?

- i have decent lenses, and wish to be able to print, periodically, pretty big. At what size, and at what apertures do people find the difference between the two can be identified.

- is there much of a difference in quantity of sharpening needed for the 800 vs e?

thanks in advance for responses.

I noticed a lot of nice landscape shots in your website. So as you are aware by now, landscape can be single shot or panos, or HDR.

If looking for single shot images especially in challenging lighting situations, then D800E will be the "best" of all, even though D800 is not a bad choice, but like RC above, I want high acutance. Moire is not an issue unless its fabric shots, and CNX2 removes it very easily.

For other landscape situations, if you are seriously thinking of just a landscape camera with decent AF and other capabilities, D7100 with some high end lenses is not a bad choice along with Sigma 18-35mm f1.8 to compliment it. You can add other lenses based on above recommendations. I may get shot down for this, but you can get better out of the box edge to edge sharpness with this DX option. Plus, it is easy to shoot pano's these days.

Let us know what you go for.

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Robin Casady
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Re: D800 or d800e??
In reply to soloryb, 10 months ago

In theory, 360 ppi should be better than 240 ppi, but any difference is so subtle I can't really tell the difference. I was using the term "optimum" to mean best resolution to use when printing large.

Yes, ppi (pixels per inch) is the image resolution of the file sent to the printer. Some people use the term dpi (dots per inch) which more accurately refers to what the printer lays down on paper and is not what you set in the image.

soloryb wrote:

Robin,

You said 240 ppi is an optimum resolution for the Epson 7800. I've always read that all Epsons print at an optimum resolution of 360 ppi or 720 ppi. I assume you mean the ppi value you send to the printer.

soloryb

Robin Casady wrote:

Copter01 wrote:

Hi

I am a Amateur, mainly landscape photographer. I don't upgrade often, but when i do i buy decent gear that will last me.

i am about to upgrade from a D200 to a D800 but not sure whether to get the e. usually reviews are sufficient, but it is difficult to quantify the difference between the two. I have a few questions?

- Reviews say that Moire, at least problematic moire is rare on the e. Is that peoples experience here?

With landscape shooting, extremely rare. With cityscapes a little more common. However, the moiré difference between the D800E and the D800 is small. If you get moiré with a D800E you are likely to get it with the D800, just a little less pronounced. If you don't get it on the D800 it will be subtle on the D800E.

- i have decent lenses, and wish to be able to print, periodically, pretty big. At what size, and at what apertures do people find the difference between the two can be identified.

I haven't printed enough D800 images to quantify that. Looking at images at 100% on screen, the differences are noticeable, but subtle, at f/8 and wider.

A D800/E image produces a print that is approximately 20x30" at 240 ppi. which is an optimum resolution for Epson printers. I have an Epson 7800 that uses 24" wide rolls of paper or canvas.

- is there much of a difference in quantity of sharpening needed for the 800 vs e?

Yes.

I went with a D800E. I didn't see the point of buying a high-resolution camera that has its image accutance degraded. If I were shooting weddings, I might have gone for the D800, but I shoot mostly landscapes and macros. With the D800E I know I am getting the sharpest image possible.

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Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
—Mark Twain

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Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html
"Get your facts first, then you can distort them as you please."
—Mark Twain

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russbarnes
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Re: Used D800 and D800e for months side by side...
In reply to nikonuserinfo, 10 months ago

nikonuserinfo wrote:

Copter01 wrote:

Hi

I am a Amateur, mainly landscape photographer.

Go for "e"

I don't upgrade often, but when i do i buy decent gear that will last me.

i am about to upgrade from a D200 to a D800 but not sure whether to get the e. usually reviews are sufficient, but it is difficult to quantify the difference between the two. I have a few questions?

I was using both D800 and D800e for months side by side. You can read my findings here and here.

- Reviews say that Moire, at least problematic moire is rare on the e. Is that peoples experience here?

I was afraid of that, but it's not a problem at all. Only for fashion photographers I would advice the normal D800.

Itested especially in studio for moire while shooting clothing. Capture NX2 RAW processing also helps to get rid of occasional moire.

- i have decent lenses, and wish to be able to print, periodically, pretty big. At what size, and at what apertures do people find the difference between the two can be identified.

Wide open while shooting quality glass D800e images are significantly sharper.

- is there much of a difference in quantity of sharpening needed for the 800 vs e?

D800e used with high quality lenses often doesn't need sharpening at all.

thanks in advance for responses.

It was a pleasure.

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Stany
http://www.nikonuser.info
My former Dpreview profiles ( For which I do not have the Original email address anymore)
Stany Buyle
Photoforfun

For what it's worth I have had an identical experience. My D800E is my first choice every time, it's perfect for landscape work and I no longer sharpen images. My D800 often required a small amount of sharpening despite the resolution. Buy good glass and it will reward you. My D800 is about to be converted to 720nm Infrared. Images are on my website at www.russbarnes.co.uk

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Espressoguy
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Re: D800 or d800e??
In reply to Copter01, 10 months ago

It's an extra $300, so what would you spend that on if you didn't get the "E"? If on a sturdier set of tripod legs or ballhead, or higher quality filters then I'd for those things since they're more likely to make a difference than what the E brings.  But if you have all of that great support equipment then it's up to you.

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Copter01
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Re: D800 or d800e??
In reply to Espressoguy, 10 months ago

Espressoguy wrote:

It's an extra $300, so what would you spend that on if you didn't get the "E"? If on a sturdier set of tripod legs or ballhead, or higher quality filters then I'd for those things since they're more likely to make a difference than what the E brings. But if you have all of that great support equipment then it's up to you.

Its even more in the UK, (£300), as usual. I do intend to keep the body for a good many years, and would rather pay a bit more, for the correct body.

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PHXAZCRAIG
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Re: D800 or d800e??
In reply to Copter01, 10 months ago

This one really gets down to what bothers you more - lack of $300 or so, or lack of almost-impertible and largely-theoretical sharpness improvement.

I bought the D800e.  I could afford it, and paying a bit more for gear simply doesn't bother me once I've spent it.  I know some people would just miss that extra money over and over - for them, get the D800.

As for moire, I've not seen it to be an issue, ever.   Probably there is some somewhere in one or more of my shots if I looked for it.  (I don't shoot fashion or fabrics much).   Note that cameras now are in a trend where the AA filter is being removed.  I suspect it's so the manufacturers can show a small sharpness improvement, but it's probably also true that moire is less an issue than it's made out to be, and/or less an issue with higher pixel density.

I do pretty small amounts of post-processing sharpening on my D800e shots.   I suspect that you get just about the same results from a D800 shot by increasing intensity of unsharp mask by about 15% over the same D800e setting.

That said, if you print big and shoot landscape, you're the ideal target for a D800e.   But if you don't have a really good lens and technique, and don't shoot between F4 and F5.6, I don't know that it is possible to see a difference.

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