F31fd: Is this still the magical camera? Locked

Started 10 months ago | Questions
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papillon_65
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Re: Nothing wrong with the F31fd
In reply to Kim Letkeman, 10 months ago

Kim Letkeman wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

Great little camera, amazing battery life, sharp little lens and the images hold up to 100% magnification surprisingly well at low ISO's. If you want a small pocketable camera which is easy to operate and does what it says on the tin then it's a steal.

Except that it is misleading to call it pocketable. More like coat or cargo pants pocketable.

It's as pocketable as any other camera known as such, as the Canon S120, at least mine is.

Are there newer options that do better? of course but that doesn't mean the F31 can't take great images in the right hands. There are also newer cameras which are not as good as this one and will cost more.

It can take great images at low ISO. And if you avoid things that produce wicked CA, like trees or lights or windows or buildings ...

Up to ISO 800 is fine, 1600 in mono, that's not bad at all. As for CA, mine has a little that is rarely a problem and when it is it's easy to remove.

It is slow, has poor range at the short and long end, and uses cards that are no longer manufactured.

It's F2.8 at the wide end, again, not bad at all.

But otherwise, it is a gem.

It was widely raved about when it came out in all the reviews achieving an almost cult status overnight, it hasn't suddenly become a bad camera

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: Nothing wrong with the F31fd
In reply to papillon_65, 10 months ago

papillon_65 wrote:

Kim Letkeman wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

Great little camera, amazing battery life, sharp little lens and the images hold up to 100% magnification surprisingly well at low ISO's. If you want a small pocketable camera which is easy to operate and does what it says on the tin then it's a steal.

Except that it is misleading to call it pocketable. More like coat or cargo pants pocketable.

It's as pocketable as any other camera known as such, as the Canon S120, at least mine is.

I owned the F11, which has essentially the same body. They did not start changing the body until the F40fd ... and this chunky and square body is all corners. Very uncomfortable unless you wear very loose clothing.

On the other hand, modern bodies like the XQ1 and F900EXR are small and rounded and fit quite nicely in a front pants pocket or inside coat pocket.

Still, I suppose if one had the right jacket, the F31 could be carried all over ...

Are there newer options that do better? of course but that doesn't mean the F31 can't take great images in the right hands. There are also newer cameras which are not as good as this one and will cost more.

It can take great images at low ISO. And if you avoid things that produce wicked CA, like trees or lights or windows or buildings ...

Up to ISO 800 is fine, 1600 in mono, that's not bad at all.

800 is fine ... 1600 is fine if you don't mind some water color ... and after that you have a painting. But it is nothing like the modern Fujis ... even the smaller 1/2" sensor is better as shown by the F900 comparison.

As for CA, mine has a little that is rarely a problem and when it is it's easy to remove.

Then yours is a rare bird indeed. It was a revelation when Fuji finally dumped that lens and started shipping lenses with vastly less CA. Sadly, the XQ1 has seen a return to a fair bit of CA again.

By the way ... the worst problem was PF ... it was horrid around lights indoors and ruined many an image.

It is slow, has poor range at the short and long end, and uses cards that are no longer manufactured.

It's F2.8 at the wide end, again, not bad at all.

But it's not wide ... 31mm. And it's not long .... it's just way behind ...

But otherwise, it is a gem.

It was widely raved about when it came out in all the reviews achieving an almost cult status overnight, it hasn't suddenly become a bad camera

Actually, that all started with the F10 and F11, both of which I owned. The F10 is still kicking around here somewhere.

The F series itself -- F10 (A), F11 (M), F20fd (A), F30fd (M), F31fd (M) where A=all auto and M=semi-manual -- was a cult among people who understood the value of SCCD.

The F31fd had the best noise of the bunch according to the review on this site, but they failed to note the water color that came with the package. Others noted it though.

None of that stopped the collectors from paying ridiculous sums for years afterwards ....

But every one in the series is so far behind the state of the art today that they are only interesting as a museum piece. I stopped shooting mine in 2009.

Yes, they still take pictures. Yes, if you were satisfied in 2005 and never raised your standards, then they still take the same pictures.

All true ...

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papillon_65
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Re: Nothing wrong with the F31fd
In reply to Kim Letkeman, 10 months ago

Kim Letkeman wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

Kim Letkeman wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

Great little camera, amazing battery life, sharp little lens and the images hold up to 100% magnification surprisingly well at low ISO's. If you want a small pocketable camera which is easy to operate and does what it says on the tin then it's a steal.

Except that it is misleading to call it pocketable. More like coat or cargo pants pocketable.

It's as pocketable as any other camera known as such, as the Canon S120, at least mine is.

I owned the F11, which has essentially the same body. They did not start changing the body until the F40fd ... and this chunky and square body is all corners. Very uncomfortable unless you wear very loose clothing.

So you never owned the F31fd, thanks, that's all I needed to know.

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DS21
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Re: Nothing wrong with the F31fd
In reply to papillon_65, 10 months ago

That's why he is mistaken, the watercolor effect at ISO 1600 was the thing of F30, F31 does not have that effect. But, he will reply again, his has to be the last, he is the supreme authority on this forum after all.

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papillon_65
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Re: Nothing wrong with the F31fd
In reply to DS21, 10 months ago

DS21 wrote:

That's why he is mistaken, the watercolor effect at ISO 1600 was the thing of F30, F31 does not have that effect. But, he will reply again, his has to be the last, he is the supreme authority on this forum after all.

I figured, and he's completely wrong about the F31fd, it's IQ still stands up today but then I'm obviously assuming that the user would know what he's doing and has actually owned the camera.

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Examples - DPR's own full size samples
In reply to Kim Letkeman, 10 months ago

ISO 400

Downloaded and uploaded full size from DPR's own samples, not sure what happened with the orientation but you get the picture. No CA in sight, nice and sharp, I wish my Panasonic FZ200 took images as good as these at 100%. Yes the F31fd is a 6mp camera but you could print these to A3 and they'd look great, no problem whatsoever. A museum piece? complete and utter nonsense, still a great little camera capable of excellent images. I recommend viewing them using the "view original" option, not bad for such a "relic"

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: Nothing wrong with the F31fd
In reply to DS21, 10 months ago

DS21 wrote:

That's why he is mistaken, the watercolor effect at ISO 1600 was the thing of F30, F31 does not have that effect.

What they did in the F31fd, which is widely documented, is to reduce the exposure issues that plagued the F30fd. The latter was known to over expose images and the former was known to shoot a bit too dark an image. The F31fd was the best of the lot at that sensor size, but is still woefully out of date.

But, he will reply again, his has to be the last, he is the supreme authority on this forum after all.

You too have learned something of late. Congrats.

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: Nothing wrong with the F31fd
In reply to papillon_65, 10 months ago

papillon_65 wrote:

DS21 wrote:

That's why he is mistaken, the watercolor effect at ISO 1600 was the thing of F30, F31 does not have that effect. But, he will reply again, his has to be the last, he is the supreme authority on this forum after all.

I figured, and he's completely wrong about the F31fd, it's IQ still stands up today but then I'm obviously assuming that the user would know what he's doing and has actually owned the camera.

OMG, you are right! Only by paying for a camera can one truly come to know its abilities.

Photography has ceased to be mysterious or complex as it is now known that the mere application of cash renders it entirely transparent.

You have performed a great service for the forum and DPReview in general.

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Re: Examples - DPR's own full size samples
In reply to papillon_65, 10 months ago

Don't remember saying that it couldn't shoot ... I posted many an image from the F11 and was very pleased with it up to 1600 ... in 2005.

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DS21
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Re: Nothing wrong with the F31fd
In reply to Kim Letkeman, 10 months ago

Kim Letkeman wrote:

DS21 wrote:

That's why he is mistaken, the watercolor effect at ISO 1600 was the thing of F30, F31 does not have that effect.

What they did in the F31fd, which is widely documented, is to reduce the exposure issues that plagued the F30fd. The latter was known to over expose images and the former was known to shoot a bit too dark an image. The F31fd was the best of the lot at that sensor size, but is still woefully out of date.

As usual, you are being sloppy and superficial when it comes to older Fuji cameras. The difference that cured the watercolor effect at ISO 1600 was the decision to lower the NR and allow some more noise at ISO 1600 (compared to F30), and slightly increase detail at the expense of noise. The exposure issues have nothing to do with that. And, by the way, the "exposure issues that plagued the F30fd" (there is no F30fd, Mr. Fuji Expert, only F30) are nothing compared to wild blow-ups F550, F600, and Fxxx all do when left at their default settings (like poor old F30 was mostly criticized for, at its default settings). With their modern sensors with more DR (right?) should have been a piece of cake to do it better them the range F30 designers had. The F30 is actually quite good exposure wise, better then many DSLR's of the time (remember D80?), and so much better then today's Fuji cameras (without the permanent DR400 trick). I wonder who will remember the F550 in a couple of years (except you, of course).

But, he will reply again, his has to be the last, he is the supreme authority on this forum after all.

You too have learned something of late. Congrats.

What I mostly learned so far is that nothing brings you back faster to this forum (from your Panasonic nirvana) then the opportunity to remind us all how crappy and outdated the old classic F cameras are. It would be interesting to speculate what drives you to do that, my best guess would be that it is ego related.

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: Nothing wrong with the F31fd
In reply to DS21, 10 months ago

DS21 wrote:

Kim Letkeman wrote:

DS21 wrote:

That's why he is mistaken, the watercolor effect at ISO 1600 was the thing of F30, F31 does not have that effect.

What they did in the F31fd, which is widely documented, is to reduce the exposure issues that plagued the F30fd. The latter was known to over expose images and the former was known to shoot a bit too dark an image. The F31fd was the best of the lot at that sensor size, but is still woefully out of date.

As usual, you are being sloppy and superficial when it comes to older Fuji cameras. The difference that cured the watercolor effect at ISO 1600 was the decision to lower the NR and allow some more noise at ISO 1600 (compared to F30), and slightly increase detail at the expense of noise. The exposure issues have nothing to do with that. And, by the way, the "exposure issues that plagued the F30fd" (there is no F30fd, Mr. Fuji Expert, only F30) are nothing compared to wild blow-ups F550, F600, and Fxxx all do when left at their default settings

People who whine about problems at default settings always amaze me. Do you whine because the toilet works so badly with the lid down? Or do you lift it?

We are in control of our environment ... if we choose to accept the responsibility.

And by the way ... that highlighted section says a lot about your ego's fragility.

(like poor old F30 was mostly criticized for, at its default settings). With their modern sensors with more DR (right?) should have been a piece of cake to do it better them the range F30 designers had. The F30 is actually quite good exposure wise, better then many DSLR's of the time (remember D80?), and so much better then today's Fuji cameras (without the permanent DR400 trick).

The whole point of the EXR sensor is to extend dynamic range. If you want to shoot a different way, then you have many, many other choices.

I wonder who will remember the F550 in a couple of years (except you, of course).

The reason I remember the F550EXR is that it was the first of that line to use the 16mp sensor and have raw. That made a massive difference. I shot it for years.

But, he will reply again, his has to be the last, he is the supreme authority on this forum after all.

You too have learned something of late. Congrats.

What I mostly learned so far is that nothing brings you back faster to this forum (from your Panasonic nirvana)

I've always shot more advanced cameras alongside the Fuji compacts. Right now I am sitting with the F770EXR, F200EXR (both mine) and the XQ1 (Fuji's loaner) ... right beside the Panasonic GM1, which is about the same size. Not so sure why that bothers you ...

then the opportunity to remind us all how crappy and outdated the old classic F cameras are.

Actually, I said they were far behind the state of the art. Which is true.

I further said that they still take a nice image at low ISO. Which is true.

I never said they were crappy. That is false.

Nothing can make the F31fd a modern camera, though. Which is fine if one does not mind its limitations.

It would be interesting to speculate what drives you to do that, my best guess would be that it is ego related.

Everything is ego related. Your personality being an equally valid example.

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DS21
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Re: Nothing wrong with the F31fd
In reply to Kim Letkeman, 10 months ago

Kim Letkeman wrote:

DS21 wrote:

Kim Letkeman wrote:

DS21 wrote:

That's why he is mistaken, the watercolor effect at ISO 1600 was the thing of F30, F31 does not have that effect.

What they did in the F31fd, which is widely documented, is to reduce the exposure issues that plagued the F30fd. The latter was known to over expose images and the former was known to shoot a bit too dark an image. The F31fd was the best of the lot at that sensor size, but is still woefully out of date.

As usual, you are being sloppy and superficial when it comes to older Fuji cameras. The difference that cured the watercolor effect at ISO 1600 was the decision to lower the NR and allow some more noise at ISO 1600 (compared to F30), and slightly increase detail at the expense of noise. The exposure issues have nothing to do with that. And, by the way, the "exposure issues that plagued the F30fd" (there is no F30fd, Mr. Fuji Expert, only F30) are nothing compared to wild blow-ups F550, F600, and Fxxx all do when left at their default settings

People who whine about problems at default settings always amaze me. Do you whine because the toilet works so badly with the lid down? Or do you lift it?

I fail to see the relevance of the toilet-camera comparison, maybe you use both with frequent exposure compensation, so it is familiar?

We are in control of our environment ... if we choose to accept the responsibility.

Strange how the F30 was "plagued" by overexposure at default settings, and F550 it s not, surely the responsibility about the settings existed in 2006.

And by the way ... that highlighted section says a lot about your ego's fragility.

I think highlighting it says more about yours.

(like poor old F30 was mostly criticized for, at its default settings). With their modern sensors with more DR (right?) should have been a piece of cake to do it better them the range F30 designers had. The F30 is actually quite good exposure wise, better then many DSLR's of the time (remember D80?), and so much better then today's Fuji cameras (without the permanent DR400 trick).

The whole point of the EXR sensor is to extend dynamic range. If you want to shoot a different way, then you have many, many other choices.

Even with DR400 permanently set, most CMOS EXR cameras still need -1/3 Ev in contrasty conditions. Not much different then F30 which also needed -1/3 Ev to be fine. But because it is old, it is "plagued" by overexposure.

I wonder who will remember the F550 in a couple of years (except you, of course).

The reason I remember the F550EXR is that it was the first of that line to use the 16mp sensor and have raw. That made a massive difference. I shot it for years.

You and two other people. Its going to do the wonders for the F550's legacy.

But, he will reply again, his has to be the last, he is the supreme authority on this forum after all.

You too have learned something of late. Congrats.

What I mostly learned so far is that nothing brings you back faster to this forum (from your Panasonic nirvana)

I've always shot more advanced cameras alongside the Fuji compacts. Right now I am sitting with the F770EXR, F200EXR (both mine) and the XQ1 (Fuji's loaner) ... right beside the Panasonic GM1, which is about the same size. Not so sure why that bothers you ...

Nothing wrong with Panasonics, but you most regularly come back when you have a chance to slam the old F series "clunkers" like you used to call them before you pretended you didn't.

then the opportunity to remind us all how crappy and outdated the old classic F cameras are.

Actually, I said they were far behind the state of the art. Which is true.

I further said that they still take a nice image at low ISO. Which is true.

I never said they were crappy. That is false.

Not in these exact words, but not far behind.

Nothing can make the F31fd a modern camera, though. Which is fine if one does not mind its limitations.

It would be interesting to speculate what drives you to do that, my best guess would be that it is ego related.

Everything is ego related. Your personality being an equally valid example.

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If we start talking about personalities, yours is the staff of legends, and there is plenty of material if you want to go there.

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Kim Letkeman
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why, thank you!
In reply to DS21, 10 months ago

DS21 wrote:

yours is the staff of legends,

Well, I don't like to brag ...

and there is plenty of material ...

As I said ...

Seriously though, I think this ridiculous waste of time has run its course. You've had your rants at my expense ... your chest is probably sore from all the thumping ... let's agree to disagree then shall we?

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DS21
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Re: why, thank you!
In reply to Kim Letkeman, 10 months ago

Kim Letkeman wrote:

DS21 wrote:

yours is the staff of legends,

Well, I don't like to brag ...

and there is plenty of material ...

As I said ...

Seriously though, I think this ridiculous waste of time has run its course. You've had your rants at my expense ... your chest is probably sore from all the thumping ... let's agree to disagree then shall we?

-- hide signature --

OK.

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papillon_65
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Re: Examples - DPR's own full size samples
In reply to Kim Letkeman, 10 months ago

Kim Letkeman wrote:

Don't remember saying that it couldn't shoot ... I posted many an image from the F11 and was very pleased with it up to 1600 ... in 2005.

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No but you did say words to the effect that the lens was poor and riddled with CA - it doesn't appear to be the case in these shots, which are of high quality from a small sensored camera, by anyones standards.

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papillon_65
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Re: Nothing wrong with the F31fd
In reply to Kim Letkeman, 10 months ago

Kim Letkeman wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

DS21 wrote:

That's why he is mistaken, the watercolor effect at ISO 1600 was the thing of F30, F31 does not have that effect. But, he will reply again, his has to be the last, he is the supreme authority on this forum after all.

I figured, and he's completely wrong about the F31fd, it's IQ still stands up today but then I'm obviously assuming that the user would know what he's doing and has actually owned the camera.

OMG, you are right! Only by paying for a camera can one truly come to know its abilities.

Photography has ceased to be mysterious or complex as it is now known that the mere application of cash renders it entirely transparent.

You have performed a great service for the forum and DPReview in general.

-- hide signature --

What is obvious is that it's a bit silly to dismiss a camera you've neither owned nor used

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“The most puzzling development in politics during the last decade is the apparent determination of Western European leaders to re-create the Soviet Union in Western Europe.”
Mikhail Gorbachev
Tony
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CAcreeks
Veteran MemberPosts: 6,843
I didn't buy one due to XD card
In reply to Kim Letkeman, 10 months ago

Guess who was correct in predicting technology trends? Me!!!

The XD card (or xD as Olympus liked to spell it) was doomed and I am happy I did not buy Fuji until the F200EXR supported SD.

Kim, I want to commend you for watching the Sandler-Nicholson movie Anger Management and putting the lessons into practice! To me DS21 seems like an inveterate Canon fanboy, so I'm not sure why he/she bothers to post on FTF.

Kim Letkeman wrote:

DS21 wrote:

yours is the staff of legends,

Well, I don't like to brag ...

and there is plenty of material ...

As I said ...

Seriously though, I think this ridiculous waste of time has run its course. You've had your rants at my expense ... your chest is probably sore from all the thumping ... let's agree to disagree then shall we?

-- hide signature --
walter marshall
Contributing MemberPosts: 792
Re: F31fd: Is this still the magical camera?
In reply to VPic, 10 months ago

I regret selling mine, the guy I sold it to years ago still uses it.

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Bazzer

DS21
Senior MemberPosts: 1,689Gear list
Re: I didn't buy one due to XD card
In reply to CAcreeks, 10 months ago

Guess who was correct in predicting technology trends? Me!!!

The XD card (or xD as Olympus liked to spell it) was doomed and I am happy I did not buy Fuji until the F200EXR supported SD.

Kim, I want to commend you for watching the Sandler-Nicholson movie Anger Management and putting the lessons into practice! To me DS21 seems like an inveterate Canon fanboy, so I'm not sure why he/she bothers to post on FTF.

Kim Letkeman wrote:

DS21 wrote:

yours is the staff of legends,

Well, I don't like to brag ...

and there is plenty of material ...

As I said ...

Seriously though, I think this ridiculous waste of time has run its course. You've had your rants at my expense ... your chest is probably sore from all the thumping ... let's agree to disagree then shall we?

-- hide signature --

Considering the camera you are using, I am not surprised you are too blind to see how many Fuji cameras I have.

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Kim Letkeman
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Re: Nothing wrong with the F31fd
In reply to papillon_65, 10 months ago

papillon_65 wrote:

Kim Letkeman wrote:

papillon_65 wrote:

DS21 wrote:

That's why he is mistaken, the watercolor effect at ISO 1600 was the thing of F30, F31 does not have that effect. But, he will reply again, his has to be the last, he is the supreme authority on this forum after all.

I figured, and he's completely wrong about the F31fd, it's IQ still stands up today but then I'm obviously assuming that the user would know what he's doing and has actually owned the camera.

OMG, you are right! Only by paying for a camera can one truly come to know its abilities.

Photography has ceased to be mysterious or complex as it is now known that the mere application of cash renders it entirely transparent.

You have performed a great service for the forum and DPReview in general.

-- hide signature --

What is obvious is that it's a bit silly to dismiss a camera you've neither owned nor used

That's not even close to original, so the smiley just underscores how little thought you put into that comment.

I still own the F10 and I used the F11 for many years. The newer cameras changed the processing, but not the sensor, so I had no problems replicating their results with the F11. The difference was that the F11 did not bruise the pixels so much.

In the end, though, the people who invoke the "you are not an owner" argument always lose by default. It boggles the mind how lazy that argument is.

And your characterization of my comments as "dismissing" the F31fd are also some of the laziest I have seen in a while. I did nothing of the sort. I said that it was a great camera in its time and that it was way behind the state of the art today. All true.

 Kim Letkeman's gear list:Kim Letkeman's gear list
Nikon Coolpix 990 Fujifilm FinePix F200EXR Fujifilm FinePix F770EXR Panasonic Lumix DMC-GH2 Panasonic Lumix DMC-GF3 +16 more
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