The worst thing about the V1...

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
Sonyshine
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Its never ever happened to my V1
In reply to camerosity, 7 months ago

I must admit I have never ever found this a problem....I'm going to have to go and try and make it happen! 

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samfan
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Re: The worst thing about the V1...
In reply to olyflyer, 7 months ago

olyflyer wrote:

EXIF is in my images. Not in yours. I have no idea how you managed to take that underexposed image. As I explained, my camera can not do that, except maybe in one situation, which I just been thinking about, that is that your exposure isn't enough, i.e. you hit the roof of the ISO and the shutter speed can not be lowered any more, or the aperture can not be opened. As I said, there is no EXIF in your images, so as far as I am concerned, they are not very informative, to say the least.

img1: 1/125, f5.6, iso 220
img2: 1/13, f5.6, iso 3200
img3: 1/30, f5.6, iso 800
img4: 1/100, f5.6, iso 400

All with 10-30 at 30mm, P mode and ISO Auto 100-3200.

You pan from a dark area to bright, take an image and the camera overexposes it. Easy as that. I really don't know why you can't reproduce it. The only reason would be that you're waiting too long between shots to press the shutter. Or maybe you're waiting for AF which would mean your AF is way slower than it should be. You did say that on your camera AE is as fast as AF, which means your AF is way too slow.

But okay if you can't reproduce it this way, try another one OK? Set mode to P, AF to AF-S, metering to matrix, shutter AE to off, enable continuous shooting at 5 fps, focus on outside and then take a continuous series of images as you pan from outside to inside. You should definitely see the first 'inside' shots as underexposed.

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A-Frame
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Re: The worst thing about the V1...
In reply to samfan, 7 months ago

This issue does exist and will affect those who need to shoot sequences at high frame rates under fast changing lighting conditions.

Most N1 owners will never or rarely be affected by this issue since most either do not shoot at high frame rates or under lighting conditions where this issue becomes noticeable.

It would have been nice if Nikon gave us an option to change this meter behaviour but then again they thought the PASM dial was unnecessary on the V1.

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camerosity
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Re: The worst thing about the V1...
In reply to olyflyer, 7 months ago

olyflyer wrote:

camerosity wrote:

I love the little V1. Took a two week trip with a couple of them recently and just loved shooting with them. One had the good old 18.5mm mounted on it, the other had the superb 6.7-13mm mounted.

But the thing that drives me nuts about the V1 is the incredibly slow reaction time for exposure adjustment when the light changes. I mean, they made this thing lightning fast when it comes to shutter lag (there is none) and autofocus speed (it is quick!). But if the camera is pointed at the ground as I am walking around, then I raise the camera to my eye to shoot, I have to wait 1-3 seconds for the metering to stabilize. I own three V1 bodies (all bought at firesale prices, and one is being kept in the bag as a spare) and all three do this...maddening!!

Set the "Shutter button AE lock" item to OFF. If it is OFF you don't have to wait, the camera adjusts the exposure while focusing. I made a test a while back, compared the V1, the Nikon D300s and an Olympus SW850. They all require the same time, except that the V1 has that Shutter button lock feature. Once disabled it becomes as fast as any other camera.

That is a very good tidbit of information! I had set my shutter button AE lock, to get a little more control over exposure (I like to underexpose sometimes to deepen color saturation and contrast, so I'll point the camera at the sky for a meter reading, press and hold the shutter button to capture that, then recompose and take the photo). I guess I have to decide between this ability and speed...

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samfan
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Re: The worst thing about the V1...
In reply to camerosity, 7 months ago

A-Frame wrote:

This issue does exist and will affect those who need to shoot sequences at high frame rates under fast changing lighting conditions.

I know that but there's still someone here who doesn't believe it...

camerosity wrote:

I guess I have to decide between this ability and speed...

You can use the AE-L button (up on the 4-way dial) to lock exposure. In the menu you can also pick if it's gonna lock just the exposure or both exposure and focus.

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olyflyer
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Re: Its never ever happened to my V1
In reply to Sonyshine, 7 months ago

Sonyshine wrote:

I must admit I have never ever found this a problem....I'm going to have to go and try and make it happen!

Exactly. We found a "problem", now we have to design a situation where this problem is a problem. I am still looking, but so far during the 2 years I have used the V1, I haven't found any.

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olyflyer
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Re: The worst thing about the V1...
In reply to samfan, 7 months ago

samfan wrote:

A-Frame wrote:

This issue does exist and will affect those who need to shoot sequences at high frame rates under fast changing lighting conditions.

I know that but there's still someone here who doesn't believe it...

Well, "he" definitely believes that it is possible to design a situation where this is a problem, just that it isn't a real life problem.

Like I said before, the Nikon 1 has advantages over the D4 and the D800, but it has also disadvantages. If this is a real issue for anyone, perhaps he should buy a D4. Me, if I ever see an under/overexposed image caused by this I will just delete the image. ...or, knowing that this may happen, just release the shutter to break the sequential shooting and push again to start a new. I may miss a second or two, but hey, this is NOT a professional camera, so who cares?

BTW, do you believe (understand) now what I meant by 9-13 seconds exposure delay? Perhaps this is linked to that and in continuous shooting mode there is ALWAYS a 9-13 seconds exposure delay in extreme situations. Learn to live with it or get another camera. Perhaps the V2 is different, I don't know.

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andrbar
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Re: Its never ever happened to my V1
In reply to olyflyer, 7 months ago

Yes, I noticed that "lag" too. Never been bothered with that.

I noticed too that when using center weighted or spot, there's almost no lag, and the update of the exposure values is near instant.

But, once again, I can't see a situation when this could be annoying. Maybe when shooting sports in quickly changing light? Then switch to center weighted (wich is better, I think, for shooting sports), and you're OK. Or remove the dust from your DSLR...:-)

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Sonyshine
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Re: Its never ever happened to my V1
In reply to olyflyer, 7 months ago

olyflyer wrote:

Sonyshine wrote:

I must admit I have never ever found this a problem....I'm going to have to go and try and make it happen!

Exactly. We found a "problem", now we have to design a situation where this problem is a problem. I am still looking, but so far during the 2 years I have used the V1, I haven't found any.

Well I have been messing about shooting light bulbs and dark spaces and still can't get this 'problem' to appear! 

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A-Frame
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Re: Its never ever happened to my V1
In reply to Sonyshine, 7 months ago

Try this. Set your V1:

Continuous = Continuous

Shutter type = E

Metering = Matrix

Shutter button AE lock = Off

AF = AF-C

Start shooting the dark scene and hold down the shutter button and slowly pan to the bright scene. You should see several poorly exposed images.

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samfan
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Re: The worst thing about the V1...
In reply to olyflyer, 7 months ago

olyflyer wrote:

Well, "he" definitely believes that it is possible to design a situation where this is a problem, just that it isn't a real life problem.

Let me put it this way. If Nikon wouldn't be so stupid and wouldn't overprice the FT-1 so much, or if they had a decent fast telephoto zoom for N1, I would use V1 not only as a glorified point and shoot but also for totally common situations where I'd run into this. If you only treat the camera like a Leica M3, then obviously you can't run into it.

So all right. Nikon made a fault but covered it up by other fault so it's not that noticeable

But regardless if you find it an issue for you or not, it's still very odd why a advanced fast camera can't do something which a $70 point and shoot can.

As for the 9-13 sec delay, no idea. Please explain. I can't see how the camera can have such lag ever.

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olyflyer
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Re: The worst thing about the V1...
In reply to samfan, 7 months ago

samfan wrote:

As for the 9-13 sec delay, no idea. Please explain. I can't see how the camera can have such lag ever.

It's all in this thread. I will not repeat. Sorry.

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olyflyer
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Re: Its never ever happened to my V1
In reply to Sonyshine, 7 months ago

Sonyshine wrote:

olyflyer wrote:

Sonyshine wrote:

I must admit I have never ever found this a problem....I'm going to have to go and try and make it happen!

Exactly. We found a "problem", now we have to design a situation where this problem is a problem. I am still looking, but so far during the 2 years I have used the V1, I haven't found any.

Well I have been messing about shooting light bulbs and dark spaces and still can't get this 'problem' to appear!

Yes, it's repeatable, but you have to work harder...

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Sonyshine
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Re: Its never ever happened to my V1
In reply to olyflyer, 7 months ago

olyflyer wrote:

Sonyshine wrote:

olyflyer wrote:

Sonyshine wrote:

I must admit I have never ever found this a problem....I'm going to have to go and try and make it happen!

Exactly. We found a "problem", now we have to design a situation where this problem is a problem. I am still looking, but so far during the 2 years I have used the V1, I haven't found any.

Well I have been messing about shooting light bulbs and dark spaces and still can't get this 'problem' to appear!

Yes, it's repeatable, but you have to work harder...

Dang!

You sound like my old school teacher! 

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tomhongkong
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Re: Its never ever happened to my V1
In reply to Sonyshine, 7 months ago

People can of course find a set of circumstances where any camera (including v1 or dslr) will get screwed up.

Apart from scoring (or losing) points on Internet forums it is pretty irrelevant.

My view is that a proper photographer will learn to operate within the limit of his (her) camera and most will do very well.

Less carping and more photographs!

tom

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olyflyer
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Re: Its never ever happened to my V1
In reply to tomhongkong, 7 months ago

tomhongkong wrote:

People can of course find a set of circumstances where any camera (including v1 or dslr) will get screwed up.

Apart from scoring (or losing) points on Internet forums it is pretty irrelevant.

My view is that a proper photographer will learn to operate within the limit of his (her) camera and most will do very well.

Yes.

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olyflyer
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Re: Its never ever happened to my V1
In reply to Sonyshine, 7 months ago

Sonyshine wrote:

olyflyer wrote:

Sonyshine wrote:

olyflyer wrote:

Sonyshine wrote:

I must admit I have never ever found this a problem....I'm going to have to go and try and make it happen!

Exactly. We found a "problem", now we have to design a situation where this problem is a problem. I am still looking, but so far during the 2 years I have used the V1, I haven't found any.

Well I have been messing about shooting light bulbs and dark spaces and still can't get this 'problem' to appear!

Yes, it's repeatable, but you have to work harder...

Dang!

You sound like my old school teacher!

That's because I am old...

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D300SandV1shooter
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Re: Its never ever happened to my V1
In reply to olyflyer, 7 months ago

olyflyer wrote:

tomhongkong wrote:

People can of course find a set of circumstances where any camera (including v1 or dslr) will get screwed up.

Apart from scoring (or losing) points on Internet forums it is pretty irrelevant.

My view is that a proper photographer will learn to operate within the limit of his (her) camera and most will do very well.

Yes.

I only clicked "Like" to TomHK's post - that's why I'll never make it to become a Forum Pro...

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samfan
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Re: Its never ever happened to my V1
In reply to tomhongkong, 7 months ago

tomhongkong wrote:

My view is that a proper photographer will learn to operate within the limit of his (her) camera and most will do very well.

Yes, this was also a point I wanted to make... It's important to know the limitations of the camera. If they're not dealbreakers for you and you can live with them, that's cool. But it's still important to know them and sometimes in fact, test them.

The knowledge that my camera has an inexplicable 3 second metering delay can become very helpful in the future and it's simply another thing in the list I need to compensate for. It's not about trashing the camera. Well maybe a little because it's really really really really dumb but N1 is full of such idiosyncrasies and this isn't the worst one so whatever. It's just very good to keep in mind.

olyflyer wrote:

It's all in this thread. I will not repeat. Sorry.

Thanks... Hmm the images don't work anymore. Anyway since that is in fact a link to your own post about pretty much the same thing and in fact you labeled it a #1 weak point... I gotta ask, why are you then denying the issue exist and may be important for some? I don't understand this.

BTW there is a known issue with some cameras that when they're pointed from light to dark and light again, they never actually recover the original metering in the light area. I think Thom Hogan described it somewhere. Oddly this is something I don't see on my V1, but the fact it's slow to adjust is true. But not beyond those 3 seonds I'm seeing.

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