Sony where are your fast zoom lenses?

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
Lumixdude
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Re: Sony where are your fast zoom lenses?
In reply to OpticsEngineer, 11 months ago

Comfortably hold is a bit of a loose term. You can "comfortably hold" a small body camera with a long lens, I've put silly things like a 2.2x tele on my LX7, I settled for a 1.7x. I've held other compact body cameras like the GM1, and EOS M I don't think it is that much of an issue.Or if it is, you can Just add a rubber grip to your lens. It's all within reason though, the crop factor means you can go to 150mm and with the crop factor, have more zoom than what most people will ever need in their shooting habits. It's even shorter if you're willing to look at µ4/3.

The attraction of having that kind of zoom is strong particularly when you're standing on the edge of a cliff and you cannot zoom with your feet, but want to capture the whole of the area you live in, in a 50km radius. You're probably entering into an area where atmospheric haze is going to make a mess of any camera though without the right filters. With a longer lens those houses in the valley would actually become points of interest rather than dots.

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hip2
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Re: what's your definition of 'fast'?
In reply to Lumixdude, 11 months ago

you should check out the RX10, i think it is exactly the camera and lens you are looking for.

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hip2
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Re: Sony where are your fast zoom lenses?
In reply to viking79, 11 months ago

viking79 wrote:

OpticsEngineer wrote:

The NEX market niche is all about small size and light weight. So I expect there will never be fast zooms for NEX.

But is it really? Look how many people adapt large lenses. I wouldn't buy a 2.8 zoom for a NEX, but if they came out with a slightly larger camera I would consider it (like say Fuji X-T1 or Samsung NX30).

Eric

They did, it's called A7 and A7R

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Mike Fewster
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Re: This doesn't add up
In reply to Lumixdude, 11 months ago

Lumixdude wrote:

Mike Fewster wrote:

Lumixdude wrote:

As the name suggests, I am a Panasonic (and Canon) shooter I'm over here because of the value for money and the fact that neither Panasonic or Canon are offering anything brilliant. I do like the GM1 concept, and the range of lenses available on the µ43 platform, but then the IQ on the GM1 seems little better than all of Canons APS-C range right now. At the moment the NEX offers what I want out of a small kit with good IQ.

All of that aside... Those are some pretty impressive shots that would look like ISO400 on a Panasonic µ43 camera such as the GM1. I was set to buy one of those, until I really had a look at it and in those lighting conditions without a fast lens I'd be no better off than where I am now with my LX7. Unfortunately, you don't get quality until you hit the GX7 or OMD.

I think you are still blinkered by your previous camera experience. You need to do some more exploring re just what the larger sensors and the Sony senor performance is capable of. Even the small sensor Sonys as on the RX10 and RX100 have changed the game. In fact, I'd argue now that the real need on the Sonys is for built in ND filters rather than faster lenses. Sony has added one to the rx10 and Ild hope to see this on all future models.

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Mike Fewster
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I probably am a little blinkered by my past experiences and now I want to fix that. It seems all of these cameras be it Eos M or Fuji X mount have auto focus related issues, it does beg the question of what is going on here... I guess you can only fit so much in a small body... But.. Anyway I go should by rights be better than a compact. Maybe if I did go with a larger body D5300 or something similar I'd find I wanted to take action shots... I don't think so I never really have been interested in action photography, or anything more mildly action related than being on the street. The most annoying thing I've found is moving cars in night shots on the street.

Most of those issues can be resolved by carrying a tripod which i've only really found restrictive when I've been travelling overseas and want to be out while carrying not much, my travel photography at night is pretty much non-existent. I guess I can't say much, 9 years ago when I was in Europe I didn't understand things such as long exposures, or how to capture shots at night. It wasn't really a possibility back then in a digital compact, or most SLRs back then though particularly with CCD sensors... Even SLRS were immature....

I've learned a lot since then and currently have a renewed interest and want to get a lot better at what I do, the biggest thing that is holding me back at the moment is not my shot selection, but the quality of the camera I'm shooting on.

On the issue of a built in ND filter it's good in some situations where it's simply too bright to stop down, but I don't really use it on the LX7 all that often when you've got that many other options before you need one and you can recover at least 3 or 4 stops of light in post processing. It's always nice to be able to underexpose with digital cameras and then bring it all back.

The RX10 is a good camera, but it's definitely a little expensive, and then your stuck... It's a good lens, but I also don't want to be stuck in a situation of having just one lens to shoot with. Maybe in time I'll get sick of the NEX because of the lack of lenses. I don't know, I was looking at an EOS M, then I was looking at the GM1, now I'm over here on the NEX, I guess if I do get sick of it I can do what I'd do with the EOS M and start buying some A Mount glass... And then I'd purely be locked into being a Sony shooter.

That's the thing, I've been shooting for a while now, but I haven't locked myself into any one system, I gave up a Canon camera and a set of kit lenses at one point simply because I wanted something smaller and... the way Canon is right now it's not that much of a difference in more challenging light, I also didn't know much better at the time... It is time I became a little less blinkered by brands and the gear I buy, you never really know I could be happy over here with a Sony kit.

On lenses I did say something like... and giving up 4 or 5 stops of light by using my compact at that length the F/2.8 on the Fuji looks good. Canon has a range of lenses at around F/2.8 and I'm not averse to putting a big lens on a little camera. Then there's Panasonic which has the 12-35mm F/2.8 as does Olympus have the 12-40mm F/2.8 all of these guys offer fast wide angle lenses that would match/beat where I'm currently at with a compact. I may be overstating the issue, or my need for such a thing. I'm not a fan of primers though, simply because my photography never is shot at any real traditional focal length.

You are right about the af being slower. That's because all mirrorless cameras have to use cdaf rather than pdaf to do the autofocussing (it's the same for all brands). That is why Sony invented the slt range of mirrorless cameras so they could use the fast pdaf focussing. On the other hand, all pdaf cameras (of all brands) are prone to need calibration to remove the built in errors that pdaf can give. Which is why almost all (certainly all the more expensive) dslr cameras of all brands have microfocus adjustment. cdaf cameras (of all brands) can't have this error.

Recently a new wave of mirrorless cameras have emerged that have sacrificed some of the pixels on the sensor to get faster focussing. Some, but not all, Sony models now have this but the Sony af speeds aren't as good as some of the others now available. pdaf cameras are still the fastest. You can get pdaf on the Sony interchangeable lens compact cameras (the Nex series) by using Sony a mount lenses and a special adapter- The Sony Nex cameras are unique in having this adapter which allows pdaf focussing however the price for this is an expensive, largish, adapter and larger lenses
Mike Fewster
Adelaide Australia

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Lumixdude
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Re: This doesn't add up
In reply to Mike Fewster, 11 months ago

Size doesn't bother me, being able to travel and have the focus on the travel and not on the camera does. I can't see myself lugging a full frame DSLR up the top of Mt. Tibrogargan and back down any time soon. What attracts me about APS-C mirrorless cameras is that you can easily get to those places and not feel like you're carrying a brick.

Not me, but you get the point...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coUTz2m5aGk

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JamieTux
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With Sigma
In reply to Lumixdude, 11 months ago
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Lumixdude
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Re: With Sigma
In reply to JamieTux, 11 months ago

No one really...

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Mike Fewster
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Re: This doesn't add up
In reply to Lumixdude, 11 months ago

Lumixdude wrote:

Size doesn't bother me, being able to travel and have the focus on the travel and not on the camera does. I can't see myself lugging a full frame DSLR up the top of Mt. Tibrogargan and back down any time soon. What attracts me about APS-C mirrorless cameras is that you can easily get to those places and not feel like you're carrying a brick.

Not me, but you get the point...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=coUTz2m5aGk

If size doesn't bother you, then I'd be looking at a nex with the slt adapter. In this case you can choose from the huge range of alpha lenses and you get the best of both worlds. Check here, there are hundreds of lenses available

http://www.dyxum.com/

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Mike Fewster
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Lumixdude
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Re: This doesn't add up
In reply to Mike Fewster, 11 months ago

Thanks, size isn't the issue, I want an APS-C camera with a decent sensor, the NEX has got that... Now I guess its just a matter of working out which particular model since they're all pretty much the same in terms of the images they produce. Neither the 3N 5N or 7N really have a proper articulating screen, this is a bit of a shame really. For a waste level finder its OK but for above the head shots? I guess you could hold the camera upside down. Fixing the screen like that is annoying... The other bits? I don't really have a need for an external flash, nor do I for an audio jack.

Although the 5N isn't that much more expensive and has a metal body for extra durability. I can get the twin lens kit for the 3N at the moment for about $500... That's a fair amount of kit for a ridiculous price.

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Mike Fewster
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Re: This doesn't add up
In reply to Lumixdude, 11 months ago

Lumixdude wrote:

Thanks, size isn't the issue, I want an APS-C camera with a decent sensor, the NEX has got that... Now I guess its just a matter of working out which particular model since they're all pretty much the same in terms of the images they produce. Neither the 3N 5N or 7N really have a proper articulating screen, this is a bit of a shame really. For a waste level finder its OK but for above the head shots? I guess you could hold the camera upside down. Fixing the screen like that is annoying... The other bits? I don't really have a need for an external flash, nor do I for an audio jack.

Although the 5N isn't that much more expensive and has a metal body for extra durability. I can get the twin lens kit for the 3N at the moment for about $500... That's a fair amount of kit for a ridiculous price.

I rather prefer the Sony tilt screen to fully articulating. Fully articulated screens are much more fragile. I thought fast af was a priority for you? If so I'd be getting a body without lens and spend the difference on the slt adapter and a pdaf lens. The Nex 6 is one of the faster focussing models (still not as fast as pdaf) and might be worth a look.

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quezra
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Re: This doesn't add up
In reply to Lumixdude, 11 months ago

Lumixdude wrote:

Thanks, size isn't the issue, I want an APS-C camera with a decent sensor, the NEX has got that... Now I guess its just a matter of working out which particular model since they're all pretty much the same in terms of the images they produce. Neither the 3N 5N or 7N really have a proper articulating screen, this is a bit of a shame really. For a waste level finder its OK but for above the head shots? I guess you could hold the camera upside down. Fixing the screen like that is annoying... The other bits? I don't really have a need for an external flash, nor do I for an audio jack.

Although the 5N isn't that much more expensive and has a metal body for extra durability. I can get the twin lens kit for the 3N at the moment for about $500... That's a fair amount of kit for a ridiculous price.

Seeing the list of features you find important, and the amount of money you're willing to pay, I think you should stick with compact cameras. A fast zoom is going to be enormous, and set you back way more than $500 (body not included). An articulated screen is only available on Canon EOS, Panasonic GH, and a few others. Again not available in the body size you're thinking. An RX10 is actually the cheapest solution for all the features you're asking for, though the sensor size is smaller.

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Lumixdude
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Re: This doesn't add up
In reply to quezra, 11 months ago

I'm willing to pay more, the question is why? What am I getting that I would not otherwise? Ivereached the limits of what a compact can do for me... Theres nothing technically flawed in my shooting that a compact would fix.

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Mike Fewster
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Re: This doesn't add up
In reply to Lumixdude, 11 months ago

Lumixdude wrote:

I'm willing to pay more, the question is why? What am I getting that I would not otherwise? Ivereached the limits of what a compact can do for me... Theres nothing technically flawed in my shooting that a compact would fix.

I can't see what anyone else can tell you? You know the advantages of larger sensors, only you can say what you are prepared to carry, only you know just how fast you need the af to be for your shooting needs. Now you just need to make a choice.

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quezra
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Re: This doesn't add up
In reply to Lumixdude, 11 months ago

So make a list of 'essential' features and do a bit of research to see how much they all cost.

Bear in mind that you also need to do a lot of research about how landscape photography is actually shot to get the most out of a large sensor.  Handheld at f1.4 in Aperture priority is most certainly not how it's done.  Tripod, ISO 100, f8-11, shutter as slow as it needs to be... Now pretty much every lens can do that.  So the question is are you after critical sharpness?  What else do you use the camera for?  We get you like the compact form factor - but m4/3 actually has more compact lenses in general - have you thought of the E-PM2?  It's got the same sensor as the OMDs and you would get closer to your small+fast factor on m4/3 than you would on NEX.  The downside is high ISO noise but you said you don't want to use high ISOs anyway.

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Lumixdude
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Re: This doesn't add up
In reply to Mike Fewster, 11 months ago

Yeah I'm just wondering about the post above. In some sense there is an artificial limit, but everything is a compromise here... There is some part of me that says aim a little higher and get a DSLR, but then the idea of actually carrying a camera goes out the window once again and I'll start limiting my interest in carrying around big lenses. One big lens isn't going to be the death of me as a photographer...

I guess some people just dont see the point in small camera and big lens. I could do worse and stick the Oly 300mm on the GM1 if that would make people here feel any happier?

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hip2
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Re: This doesn't add up
In reply to Lumixdude, 11 months ago

Lumixdude wrote:

Yeah I'm just wondering about the post above. In some sense there is an artificial limit, but everything is a compromise here... There is some part of me that says aim a little higher and get a DSLR, but then the idea of actually carrying a camera goes out the window once again and I'll start limiting my interest in carrying around big lenses. One big lens isn't going to be the death of me as a photographer...

I guess some people just dont see the point in small camera and big lens. I could do worse and stick the Oly 300mm on the GM1 if that would make people here feel any happier?

like quezra said and also like what i said in a reply earlier, you should REALLY look at the RX10, it is a VERY nice camera, and it fills all the requirements you have expressed in this thread. even though the sensor is smaller than APS-C, it is still much bigger than sensors from compacts, and performs really really well.

just the lens on it is a very good bargain.

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Lumixdude
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This doesn't add up
In reply to hip2, 11 months ago

It may not add up, I can tell I'm going to get annoyed with just one lens eventually and then what? The RX10 is up above the Canon APS-C range but then so is the E mount.

There's not a lot of glass options out there, I need to consider that... Like the LX7 I'm sure the RX10 has a nice lens. How does it stack up against the NEX kit lenses?

The other thing is, I will be buying more glass as I go though which also makes me think perhaps a more standard kit like a Micro 4/3 body or a Canon such as the EOS M or 100D might be a better starting point? AT least that gives me the chance to go up to a full sized body wih a wide range of supported lenses. There's the X mount there as well.

But the real question is how bad are the standard E mount lenses and what would I be missing as compared to an RX10...

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camfan1
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Re: Sony where are your fast zoom lenses?
In reply to Lumixdude, 11 months ago

IMHO Your Panny LX7 is the perfect camera for what you describe.

Don't see if low light is what you're after as well as Sony lenses why

you would especially pick Sony for that.

There are so many other choices if portability is no major issue (fast longer reach zoom lenses on APS-C being big anyway).

OTOH if it is, there is no better camera than your LX7 or ... of course the superb Sony 1" compacts !?

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Lumixdude
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Re: Sony where are your fast zoom lenses?
In reply to camfan1, 11 months ago

I really like the RX100, inherently it has the same problem as the LX7 though, not enough zoom. I'm wanting 200mm+ and its not happening. I've been feeling sensor envy a lot lately as well... Don't get me wrong these cameras do everything and for the most part they do it well, I do want some crisper images to look at though. I've been putting a lot more time and effort into my photography lately and I would like to start actually getting my name out there a bit more than it is than just on my web presence on my folio and on my blog:

portfolio.roumelio.com

blog.roumelio.com

The thing is I know I could be getting better keepers than I am right now if I actually had a better camera.

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DT200
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You nailed the problem with Sony right now.
In reply to nevercat, 11 months ago

nevercat wrote:

Everybody wants a... lens, until they see the price and size of it.

Look at the latest e-mount lenses.  The prices are all over $1000 and the sizes are often bigger than their DLSR FF counterparts.

Who want to put a larger lens on a small body making is almost the same size as DSLR that has a working focus system?  Why not get the DSLR that can focus and that has real grip?  You will even save money do those insane Sony lens prices.

Sony needs to go back to the APS size lenses and prices.

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