E-M5 Firmware update... V 2.0 today..

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
Ethan637372
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Re: ETTR ISO 100
In reply to Thomas Niemann, 11 months ago

just a question for everyone, since ISO 100 might be an overexposed ISO 200, can I still use the blinkies in ISO100 to not clip, are the blinkies still accurate?

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texinwien
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Exactly
In reply to Iliah Borg, 11 months ago

Iliah Borg wrote:

The dpreview of the E-M1 indicated that there was less highlight detail at ISO 100. Their graphs also indicate this. (scroll down to the end of this page).

It is from processed images, not from the raw data. To decide how the midtone placed in the raw one needs to operate directly on the raw data, without any tone curves that a converter applies. The difference between ISO 100 and ISO 200 settings is just the placing of the midtone - 1 stop higher for ISO 100. Means the headroom in highlights for ISO 100 is 1 stop less. You can easily determine the exact number yourself by shooting some evenly lit surface out of focus while allowing the exposure meter to set the exposure; and looking at the placement of the histogram peak in raw data

And as we know from tests performed by DXOMark and others, the E-M5's base sensor saturation ISO is ~107, which means that ISO LOW on this camera is likely to be a camera ISO of ~100 with a saturation ISO of ~100 and no (significant) loss of RAW DR.

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Thomas Niemann
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Re: Exactly
In reply to texinwien, 11 months ago

texinwien wrote:

Iliah Borg wrote:

The dpreview of the E-M1 indicated that there was less highlight detail at ISO 100. Their graphs also indicate this. (scroll down to the end of this page).

It is from processed images, not from the raw data. To decide how the midtone placed in the raw one needs to operate directly on the raw data, without any tone curves that a converter applies. The difference between ISO 100 and ISO 200 settings is just the placing of the midtone - 1 stop higher for ISO 100. Means the headroom in highlights for ISO 100 is 1 stop less. You can easily determine the exact number yourself by shooting some evenly lit surface out of focus while allowing the exposure meter to set the exposure; and looking at the placement of the histogram peak in raw data

And as we know from tests performed by DXOMark and others, the E-M5's base sensor saturation ISO is ~107, which means that ISO LOW on this camera is likely to be a camera ISO of ~100 with a saturation ISO of ~100 and no (significant) loss of RAW DR.

I see two statements and am having difficulty reconciling the two.

"the headroom in highlights for ISO 100 is 1 stop less"

"no (significant) loss of RAW DR"

Can someone help me out here?

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Iliah Borg
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Re: Exactly
In reply to Thomas Niemann, 11 months ago

Thomas Niemann wrote:

texinwien wrote:

Iliah Borg wrote:

The dpreview of the E-M1 indicated that there was less highlight detail at ISO 100. Their graphs also indicate this. (scroll down to the end of this page).

It is from processed images, not from the raw data. To decide how the midtone placed in the raw one needs to operate directly on the raw data, without any tone curves that a converter applies. The difference between ISO 100 and ISO 200 settings is just the placing of the midtone - 1 stop higher for ISO 100. Means the headroom in highlights for ISO 100 is 1 stop less. You can easily determine the exact number yourself by shooting some evenly lit surface out of focus while allowing the exposure meter to set the exposure; and looking at the placement of the histogram peak in raw data

And as we know from tests performed by DXOMark and others, the E-M5's base sensor saturation ISO is ~107, which means that ISO LOW on this camera is likely to be a camera ISO of ~100 with a saturation ISO of ~100 and no (significant) loss of RAW DR.

I see two statements and am having difficulty reconciling the two.

"the headroom in highlights for ISO 100 is 1 stop less"

"no (significant) loss of RAW DR"

Can someone help me out here?

Some loss in highlights, some gain in shadows. There is no such thing as "DR in highlights", only headroom. DR is an integral metrics.

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Anders W
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Re: ETTR ISO 100
In reply to Ethan637372, 11 months ago

Ethan637372 wrote:

just a question for everyone, since ISO 100 might be an overexposed ISO 200, can I still use the blinkies in ISO100 to not clip, are the blinkies still accurate?

I just checked and the answer is yes. The highlight "blinkies" turn on at the same exposure (same f-stop and shutter speed) at the LOW (ISO 100) setting as at ISO 200, as should be the case if they are working as they should.

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brycesteiner
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Re: The graphs are for JPEGs, not RAW
In reply to Paulmorgan, 11 months ago

Have you actually compared two different raw files with the same exposure but one set at low and the other set at iso 200 ?

This setting has been there all along but most of you never encountered it

What do you mean? I've never had LOW setting available until the update.

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Alien from Mars
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Re: E-M5 Firmware update... V 2.0 today..
In reply to Christophotog, 11 months ago

It's nice to have that small focus area, that's true. But whenever I tap the screen to select a focus point it brings up rectangular focus area (smallest available before 2.0 FW), not tiny square focus zone. Is there a way to have this new small square focus area at selected location when you tap screen to focus?

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Thomas Niemann
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Re: ETTR ISO 100
In reply to Anders W, 11 months ago

Anders W wrote:

Ethan637372 wrote:

just a question for everyone, since ISO 100 might be an overexposed ISO 200, can I still use the blinkies in ISO100 to not clip, are the blinkies still accurate?

I just checked and the answer is yes. The highlight "blinkies" turn on at the same exposure (same f-stop and shutter speed) at the LOW (ISO 100) setting as at ISO 200, as should be the case if they are working as they should.

Different results here. Should point out that shooting muted with all the "jpeg" options set to -2.

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Anders W
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Re: ETTR ISO 100
In reply to Thomas Niemann, 11 months ago

Thomas Niemann wrote:

Anders W wrote:

Ethan637372 wrote:

just a question for everyone, since ISO 100 might be an overexposed ISO 200, can I still use the blinkies in ISO100 to not clip, are the blinkies still accurate?

I just checked and the answer is yes. The highlight "blinkies" turn on at the same exposure (same f-stop and shutter speed) at the LOW (ISO 100) setting as at ISO 200, as should be the case if they are working as they should.

Different results here:

Not for the highlights, which is what the question was about. For the shadow warnings, where there is no fixed clipping point, it is to be expected that there is a difference in the direction your samples indicate.

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Thomas Niemann
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Re: ETTR ISO 100
In reply to Anders W, 11 months ago

Anders W wrote:

Thomas Niemann wrote:

Anders W wrote:

Ethan637372 wrote:

just a question for everyone, since ISO 100 might be an overexposed ISO 200, can I still use the blinkies in ISO100 to not clip, are the blinkies still accurate?

I just checked and the answer is yes. The highlight "blinkies" turn on at the same exposure (same f-stop and shutter speed) at the LOW (ISO 100) setting as at ISO 200, as should be the case if they are working as they should.

Different results here:

Not for the highlights, which is what the question was about. For the shadow warnings, where there is no fixed clipping point, it is to be expected that there is a difference in the direction your samples indicate.

The highlights are different. Look at the lamp shade.

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