E-M5 Firmware update... V 2.0 today..

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
Anders W
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Re: Hurray!!!
In reply to Steen Bay, 7 months ago

Steen Bay wrote:

Anders W wrote:

Steen Bay wrote:

Anders W wrote:

kenw wrote:

These were two things I had wanted on the E-M5 - so glad they added them. Smaller point focus desired for shallow DoF portraits and for much of my landscape shooting I end up over exposing ISO200 already and will be glad to have the extended ISO100 to do it for me (or at least start out closer).

Hi Ken,

Long time no see. Glad to see you around.

But as to the ISO 100: Why would you even want to use that as a RAW shooter? Surely, all the ISO 100 setting does is to alter the metering and the tone curve of the OOC jpegs. The clipping point in RAW stays unchanged and if you go by the live-view "blinkies" when setting exposure, as I do, there is no difference between ISO 100 and ISO 200.

If shooting mid/low contrast scenes/subjects (using ETTR), won't ISO 100 then give a less 'washed out' live-view image in the EVF and more natural looking JPEGs?

Yes, it would, and that may possibly be an advantage with regard to in-camera review even for a RAW shooter at times. On the other hand, high-contrast scenes will now come out looking more "underexposed" than they would at ISO 200 so it is a mixed blessing (unless you take the trouble to switch between 100 and 200 depending on the contrast of the scene).

Another little problem with the "fake" ISO 100 setting is that it makes things inconsistent across ISOs. If I ETTR at ISO 400 (which makes sense on the E-M5 when you can't saturate the sensor at ISO 100/200), things will look different in terms of brightness than if I ETTR the same scene at ISO 100. Staying with the regular ISOs makes things consistent in that regard.

Yes, a bit confusing if the tone curve and amount of headroom vary at different ISOs. And btw, maybe you could check whether ISO 100 actually is a 'fake' ISO. Would be very surprising if it isn't, but don't think that anybody has checked it yet.

I have now checked. As we all thought, ISO 100 is a "fake ISO", i.e. no difference in RAW compared to ISO 200 when exposure remains unchanged.

Small focus box without having to change to zoom-frame AF: Well, I am just as happy to have that as you are. This was at the very top of my list of things to be fixed.

There is of course a long list of other things I want to - but these were near the top of the list and there will always be another feature for me to be annoyed by (AEB Fn access - argh!).

As to focus peaking I may be remembering wrong but I thought at some point in the past some one from Olympus had said in an interview that appropriate processing and hardware resources were needed to effectively implement focus peaking and so it might not be practical to do on older models. It was a long time ago and I might be confusing this with a Panasonic interview on the G/GH series cameras instead.

Personally I've tried focus peaking on a few cameras and didn't find it useful, but since I didn't own those cameras and couldn't use it for long enough it is quite possible I just was familiar enough with the implementation to use it effectively.

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richarddd
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Re: E-M5 Firmware update... V 2.0 today..
In reply to Christophotog, 7 months ago

I used to be able to long press the OK button to bring the focus point back to the middle.  This is no longer working since I updated.

Did this change in the new firmware or did I change some setting so that it no longer works?

Also, when I first updated the firmware and the firmware on my 12-50, the camera would buzz rather audibly with the 12-50, as if the IBIS was out of control.  This stopped after a while.  Anyone else?

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Frank B
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Set to "s" but size of focus box remains the same.
In reply to Christophotog, 7 months ago

I updated and when I set the focus to "s" the size of the focus box does not change.  help!

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Skeeterbytes
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Re: E-M5 Firmware update... V 2.0 today..
In reply to Christophotog, 7 months ago

Interesting. The E-M5 is my fourth Oly camera and this is the first FW upgrade that adds functionality amongst them all. Good thing I'm sitting down, so great is my shock.

Cheers,

Rick

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dave rogers
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Re: Set to "s" but size of focus box remains the same.
In reply to Frank B, 7 months ago

Frank B wrote:

I updated and when I set the focus to "s" the size of the focus box does not change. help!

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Frank, forgive me if I'm misunderstanding what you mean by setting the focus to "s" - but do you mean S-AF (single-autofocus)?

If you use the Super Control Panel, and select the focus target controller, press the Info button and you can scroll through the various configurations of the focus targets (9x9, 3x3, single, and small).

These choices are also in the Gear Menu A, [***] Set Home menu item (scroll down past MF Assist).

Does that resolve it for you?

Dave

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zuikowesty
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Re: Great!
In reply to Pixnat2, 7 months ago

Pixnat2 wrote:

That's a very good news! I hope it's the premice of a change in Olympus FW updates policy, and that they will follow Fuji's!

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It could be a delay in the replacement E-M5, or just smart marketing to coincide with today's releases so E-M5 users don't feel left out, or maybe to keep the stock of E-M5s moving so they don't pile up. Maybe a bit of each.

Whatever the reason, it's great news!

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baggyns
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Re: Thanks!
In reply to Art_P, 7 months ago

+1

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Henry Richardson
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Re: Focus peaking soon to come?
In reply to cmorse, 7 months ago

cmorse wrote:

I thought Olympus said that the E-M5's processor couldn't handle focus peaking.

See this:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/53007277

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Frank B
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Re: Set to "s" but size of focus box remains the same.
In reply to dave rogers, 7 months ago

Thanks.  Sorry I was not clear.When I use the Gear Menu and set Home to [.]s the size of the focus square remains the same as it did before.

When I use the Super Control Panel to get the small focus box it does change, but if I shut off the camera I have to reset it.

I thought that if I used the new Gear/AF/MF/Home setting and set it to [.]s that would change the focus box to small.  It does not.

Am I missing something?  Thanks again.

dave rogers wrote:

Frank B wrote:

I updated and when I set the focus to "s" the size of the focus box does not change. help!

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Frank, forgive me if I'm misunderstanding what you mean by setting the focus to "s" - but do you mean S-AF (single-autofocus)?

If you use the Super Control Panel, and select the focus target controller, press the Info button and you can scroll through the various configurations of the focus targets (9x9, 3x3, single, and small).

These choices are also in the Gear Menu A, [***] Set Home menu item (scroll down past MF Assist).

Does that resolve it for you?

Dave

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kenjim
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Now where is E-PL5 2.0 update!!??
In reply to Christophotog, 7 months ago
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mchnz
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Re: But the dp graphs seem to show a loss
In reply to texinwien, 7 months ago

texinwien wrote:

mchnz wrote:

Sourze wrote:

Whoah! Fantastic news

With access to lower ISO, does this mean we can also expect a slightly higher dynamic range?

It's marked as an "extension" ISO setting - like the very high ones. It's only simulated in firmware to make it easier to use fast lenses in bight daylight. DR will likely be down a bit. The E-P5 does this, so E-P5 users would have a feel for it.

Although it is marked as an extension setting, it is not simulated in firmware like the higher extension settings are.

Rather, at the ISO 200 setting, the E-P5 sensor (and, I believe, the sensors on all of the other most recent Olympus m43 models, including the E-M5 with this update) has an actual ISO of a hair over 100.

The LOW setting simply allows one to set the camera to meter as if ISO 100 was selected, but still has the exact same sensitivity (and DR for RAW shooters) as the ISO 200 file. You'll have to be a little more careful not to clip highlights, but the number of stops of DR does not change.

DPReview was clear about that in their E-P5 review :

The E-P5 offers an ISO 100 equivalent setting with reduced highlight range. This is because the ISO Low and ISO 200 settings are derived from the same sensor amplification setting - ISO 200 images are exposed to less light, protecting highlights, compared to ISO 100. The two settings have different tone curves applied so that both give the same image brightness, despite the difference in exposure.

The upshot of this is that the ISO Low shots include less highlight detail but with 'cleaner' shadows, while the ISO 200 shots strike the opposite balance.

DXO's measurements show the same to be true (for the E-M1, E-P5 and now, presumably, for the E-M5) .

So the firmware is not massaging the data in the same way as high extension ISO's. The firmware shutting off light a bit later in favour of shadows over highlights.

The graphs at the bottom of the dpreview on page 17 do appear to show a narrowing of DR for ISO 100 on the E-P5, more highlights are clipped. Seeming to show that the sensor was built optimally for ISO 200 rather than 100.

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dave rogers
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Re: Set to "s" but size of focus box remains the same.
In reply to Frank B, 7 months ago

When I use the Super Control Panel to get the small focus box it does change, but if I shut off the camera I have to reset it.

I thought that if I used the new Gear/AF/MF/Home setting and set it to [.]s that would change the focus box to small. It does not.

That seems odd. I've just tried it with both the SCP and the menu, both can set the focus points to small. Took a shot, powered down and turned it back on. Small focus points remained.

Perhaps something is a bit digitally "stuck" and a camera reset might restore the proper behavior?

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Guy Parsons
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Re: Now where is E-PL5 2.0 update!!??
In reply to kenjim, 7 months ago

kenjim wrote:

Why? We had those features ages ago. In fact we have more features than the E-M5 will ever have.

Anyway, the update did come, it's called the E-PL6 and is now sold in a few countries beside Japan. I reckon the E-PL7 will probably come this year and have more new features than any of the others already existing, it seems to happen that way with the excellent Lite series.

Regards...... Guy

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Zensu11
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Re: Set to "s" but size of focus box remains the same.
In reply to dave rogers, 7 months ago

dave rogers wrote:

When I use the Super Control Panel to get the small focus box it does change, but if I shut off the camera I have to reset it.

I thought that if I used the new Gear/AF/MF/Home setting and set it to [.]s that would change the focus box to small. It does not.

That seems odd. I've just tried it with both the SCP and the menu, both can set the focus points to small. Took a shot, powered down and turned it back on. Small focus points remained.

Perhaps something is a bit digitally "stuck" and a camera reset might restore the proper behavior?

With my E-M5 I just had to push the okay button after resizing the AF target box to smaller and now it stays there.

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Thomas Niemann
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Here's how to do it
In reply to Frank B, 7 months ago
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Frank B
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Re: Set to "s" but size of focus box remains the same.
In reply to dave rogers, 7 months ago

Thanks.  The reset did not work, but when I went back to the SCP I was able to not only get the small focus box, but got the new array too and then clicked OK and the focus box stays small when I shut off the camera and turn it back on again.  It appears to be working correctly .

dave rogers wrote:

When I use the Super Control Panel to get the small focus box it does change, but if I shut off the camera I have to reset it.

I thought that if I used the new Gear/AF/MF/Home setting and set it to [.]s that would change the focus box to small. It does not.

That seems odd. I've just tried it with both the SCP and the menu, both can set the focus points to small. Took a shot, powered down and turned it back on. Small focus points remained.

Perhaps something is a bit digitally "stuck" and a camera reset might restore the proper behavior?

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AV Janus
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Re: E-M5 Firmware update... V 2.0 today..
In reply to baxters, 7 months ago

baxters wrote:

To select the small target via SCP:
-bring up the SCP
-highlight the focus box and press OK
-press INFO.

Now you can use either the rearmost dial or up/down arrow buttons to cycle thru the focus box choices. The left/right arrows or frontmost dial cycle thru face detect modes.

OK. I selected small target box and get it when it locks focus. But I use touch screen to position the focus box, I get the big target box. Anyone care to explain?

Thank you!

You saved me from asking this in a new thread.

I must say it was not obvious.That select a square than press info command is not something that comes naturally. I thought it would be in the menu under AF/MF

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texinwien
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The graphs are for JPEGs, not RAW
In reply to mchnz, 7 months ago

mchnz wrote:

texinwien wrote:

mchnz wrote:

Sourze wrote:

Whoah! Fantastic news

With access to lower ISO, does this mean we can also expect a slightly higher dynamic range?

It's marked as an "extension" ISO setting - like the very high ones. It's only simulated in firmware to make it easier to use fast lenses in bight daylight. DR will likely be down a bit. The E-P5 does this, so E-P5 users would have a feel for it.

Although it is marked as an extension setting, it is not simulated in firmware like the higher extension settings are.

Rather, at the ISO 200 setting, the E-P5 sensor (and, I believe, the sensors on all of the other most recent Olympus m43 models, including the E-M5 with this update) has an actual ISO of a hair over 100.

The LOW setting simply allows one to set the camera to meter as if ISO 100 was selected, but still has the exact same sensitivity (and DR for RAW shooters) as the ISO 200 file. You'll have to be a little more careful not to clip highlights, but the number of stops of DR does not change.

DPReview was clear about that in their E-P5 review :

The E-P5 offers an ISO 100 equivalent setting with reduced highlight range. This is because the ISO Low and ISO 200 settings are derived from the same sensor amplification setting - ISO 200 images are exposed to less light, protecting highlights, compared to ISO 100. The two settings have different tone curves applied so that both give the same image brightness, despite the difference in exposure.

The upshot of this is that the ISO Low shots include less highlight detail but with 'cleaner' shadows, while the ISO 200 shots strike the opposite balance.

DXO's measurements show the same to be true (for the E-M1, E-P5 and now, presumably, for the E-M5) .

So the firmware is not massaging the data in the same way as high extension ISO's. The firmware shutting off light a bit later in favour of shadows over highlights.

The graphs at the bottom of the dpreview on page 17 do appear to show a narrowing of DR for ISO 100 on the E-P5, more highlights are clipped. Seeming to show that the sensor was built optimally for ISO 200 rather than 100.

Those graphs are showing the result of different exposure plus different tone curves applied to the RAW values by the JPEG engine. They aren't telling us about changes in DR for the RAW file, which is what is more interesting.

Read the text underneath the graph - it says exactly what I did, which is why I linked to that article in my first reply to you.

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texinwien
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Re: Incorrect Explanation
In reply to duartix, 7 months ago

duartix wrote:

texinwien wrote:

Thomas Niemann wrote:

Two new features were included in the firmware update: ISO 100 and small focus points.

ISO 100. In the ISO menu you'll notice ISO 100 is marked as LOW and ISO 200 is Recommended. This indicates that ISO 100 is actually ISO 200 over-exposed by one stop. For example, if the ISO 200 exposure was 1/100 @ f/4, and you shot it at 1/50 instead, you would be over-exposing by one stop. And 1/50 @ f/4 would be the proper exposure for ISO 100. The result would be highlight clipping and less dynamic range because ISO 200 is the optimal ISO for the sensor. As a benefit, shadows would receive more exposure and, consequently, less noise.

As I have noted elsewhere in this thread, this explanation is incorrect. It is incorrect for the E-M1 and the E-P5, and will with practical certainty also be incorrect for the E-M5.

ISO 200 on the E-M5 (and all of the other Olympus m43 cameras with this Sony sensor) is actually ISO ~100 underexposed. The new LOW settings will be like ISO 100 exposed correctly.

Are you talking about this? http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Olympus/OM-D-E-M1#tabs-2

That is correct. As you can see from that graph, the sensor saturation ISO is close to 100 when the camera is set to ISO 100. It's even closer than that on the E-M5.

Then you also mean that ISO400 is also ISO ~200 underexposed and that ISO800 is ISO ~1600 underexposed, and so on...

That is correct, and exactly how the cameras are calibrated to work. They 'underexpose' by one stop, by design, at every ISO (except for LOW / 100) in order to preserve highlights. It's been known and talked about in detail since shortly after the E-M5 was released.

We were talking nominal ISO here, that's why it gets confusing. But if this is your reason, then it's nothing but a JPEG trick.

Whether you want to call it a JPEG 'trick' or not is your call. I'm interested in the effects on RAW, which are, basically, none at all. No (or very minor) loss of DR for RAW shooters, so anyone saying LOW will result in reduced DR is incorrect.

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Frank B
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Re: Set to "s" but size of focus box remains the same.
In reply to Zensu11, 7 months ago

Thanks.  When I went back to the SCP I was able to not only get the small focus box, but got the new array too and then clicked OK and the focus box stays small when I shut off the camera and turn it back on again. It appears to be working correctly

Zensu11 wrote:

dave rogers wrote:

When I use the Super Control Panel to get the small focus box it does change, but if I shut off the camera I have to reset it.

I thought that if I used the new Gear/AF/MF/Home setting and set it to [.]s that would change the focus box to small. It does not.

That seems odd. I've just tried it with both the SCP and the menu, both can set the focus points to small. Took a shot, powered down and turned it back on. Small focus points remained.

Perhaps something is a bit digitally "stuck" and a camera reset might restore the proper behavior?

With my E-M5 I just had to push the okay button after resizing the AF target box to smaller and now it stays there.

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