E-M5 Firmware update... V 2.0 today..

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
texinwien
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That is a misconception - there should be no loss of DR
In reply to mchnz, 9 months ago

mchnz wrote:

Sourze wrote:

Whoah! Fantastic news

With access to lower ISO, does this mean we can also expect a slightly higher dynamic range?

It's marked as an "extension" ISO setting - like the very high ones. It's only simulated in firmware to make it easier to use fast lenses in bight daylight. DR will likely be down a bit. The E-P5 does this, so E-P5 users would have a feel for it.

Although it is marked as an extension setting, it is not simulated in firmware like the higher extension settings are.

Rather, at the ISO 200 setting, the E-P5 sensor (and, I believe, the sensors on all of the other most recent Olympus m43 models, including the E-M5 with this update) has an actual ISO of a hair over 100.

The LOW setting simply allows one to set the camera to meter as if ISO 100 was selected, but still has the exact same sensitivity (and DR for RAW shooters) as the ISO 200 file. You'll have to be a little more careful not to clip highlights, but the number of stops of DR does not change.

DPReview was clear about that in their E-P5 review :

The E-P5 offers an ISO 100 equivalent setting with reduced highlight range. This is because the ISO Low and ISO 200 settings are derived from the same sensor amplification setting - ISO 200 images are exposed to less light, protecting highlights, compared to ISO 100. The two settings have different tone curves applied so that both give the same image brightness, despite the difference in exposure.

The upshot of this is that the ISO Low shots include less highlight detail but with 'cleaner' shadows, while the ISO 200 shots strike the opposite balance.

DXO's measurements show the same to be true (for the E-M1, E-P5 and now, presumably, for the E-M5) .

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texinwien
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Half correct - No loss of RAW DR, though
In reply to duartix, 9 months ago

duartix wrote:

Sourze wrote:

With access to lower ISO, does this mean we can also expect a slightly higher dynamic range?

As others have said before me, NO.

The LOW setting won't have more DR than the old ISO 200 setting, but it also won't (most likely) have any less.

This should be looked at as if it was a JPEG effect. The base ISO on the camera is still 200, which means that this is nothing more than ISO 200 overexposed by 1 stop.

That is not correct - see my previous posts in this thread.

RAW DR will likely be lower, because the camera will expose more to the right (possibly over the point of clipping) and will leave you with less headroom for recovery of highlights.

That is, again, incorrect. RAW DR will likely be the exact same (or very very close to it) with the LOW setting as it is at ISO 200, for obvious reasons.

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texinwien
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Re: E-M5 Firmware update... V 2.0 today..
In reply to Heyseuss Hoolio, 9 months ago

Heyseuss Hoolio wrote:

Okay thanks for the answers to all that answered, I understand now how the overexposed ISO200 would be.

So...has this been verified what it actually does? How does the new ISO100 RAW file look? Does it look like an over exposed ISO200 file, or is the RAW file brought down in the camera then presented as a RAW ISO100 file?

See my previous posts in this thread for more details, but this is most likely not JPEG effect or an overexposed ISO 200 file.

Rather, ISO 200 is like an underexposed ISO 100 file with brightness boosted by the JPEG engine (and always has been). The new LOW setting should be like a correctly exposed ISO 100 file (that's exactly how it works on the E-M1, E-P5, E-PM2, E-PL5, etc.).

Since that's how it works on all of the other recent m43 cameras from Olympus, I think the safest assumption is that that's how it will work on the E-M5 after this firmware update (which I've already loaded onto my E-M5, but haven't had much chance to test).

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texinwien
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Incorrect Explanation
In reply to Thomas Niemann, 9 months ago

Thomas Niemann wrote:

Two new features were included in the firmware update: ISO 100 and small focus points.

ISO 100. In the ISO menu you'll notice ISO 100 is marked as LOW and ISO 200 is Recommended. This indicates that ISO 100 is actually ISO 200 over-exposed by one stop. For example, if the ISO 200 exposure was 1/100 @ f/4, and you shot it at 1/50 instead, you would be over-exposing by one stop. And 1/50 @ f/4 would be the proper exposure for ISO 100. The result would be highlight clipping and less dynamic range because ISO 200 is the optimal ISO for the sensor. As a benefit, shadows would receive more exposure and, consequently, less noise.

As I have noted elsewhere in this thread, this explanation is incorrect. It is incorrect for the E-M1 and the E-P5, and will with practical certainty also be incorrect for the E-M5.

ISO 200 on the E-M5 (and all of the other Olympus m43 cameras with this Sony sensor) is actually ISO ~100 underexposed. The new LOW settings will be like ISO 100 exposed correctly.

Small focus points. To implement this feature, do the following:

1. Click the left arrow on the control wheel to bring up focus points

2. Click on the Info button

3. Click the up/down arrows on the control wheel to select a smaller focus point

A very nice addition!

I agree, both are very nice additions, and the additions are even nicer when you realize that the LOW setting isn't faked.

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kenw
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Re: This update is a joke.
In reply to Olfdee, 9 months ago

Joke or fiasco!!!!

Fire up the the web petition!  Olympus must be taught updating firmware to add some new features to a two year old camera model is not acceptable unless they add all the features anyone has ever wanted!  How dare they!

Olfdee wrote:

It makes E-M5 the most retarded function-wise camera in the whole lineup, missing features already introduced (so readily available as source code) on other Oly cameras:

- custom self timer

- auto IS option

- time lapse counter

- adjustable direction of both dials

- focus peaking

as well as it doesn't fix flaws present from the very beginning, like option to assign quick access to bracketing settings to any of Fn buttons.

I'm sure there are other things missing and and I'm not even trying to point to ideas offered by competition...

If this, plus option to buy more expensive kit is all Olympus has to offer to keep E-M5 alive for another year (at least) then well... RIP.

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kenw
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Hurray!!!
In reply to Christophotog, 9 months ago

These were two things I had wanted on the E-M5 - so glad they added them.  Smaller point focus desired for shallow DoF portraits and for much of my landscape shooting I end up over exposing ISO200 already and will be glad to have the extended ISO100 to do it for me (or at least start out closer).

There is of course a long list of other things I want to - but these were near the top of the list and there will always be another feature for me to be annoyed by (AEB Fn access - argh!).

As to focus peaking I may be remembering wrong but I thought at some point in the past some one from Olympus had said in an interview that appropriate processing and hardware resources were needed to effectively implement focus peaking and so it might not be practical to do on older models.  It was a long time ago and I might be confusing this with a Panasonic interview on the G/GH series cameras instead.

Personally I've tried focus peaking on a few cameras and didn't find it useful, but since I didn't own those cameras and couldn't use it for long enough it is quite possible I just was familiar enough with the implementation to use it effectively.

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Anders W
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Re: E-M5 Firmware update... V 2.0 today..
In reply to Christophotog, 9 months ago

Christophotog wrote:

Just updated my E-M5 to V 2.0 which was released today.

Many thanks for the heads-up.

Small A/F point was added which shows a 5 x 7 matrix of small focus points.

Finally! If they were to fix just one of my gripes with the E-M5 UI, this was the number one priority.  Saves me the trouble of constantly having to switch between the screen where I can get the small focus box (zoom-frame AF) and the one where I can see the live-view "blinkes" (highlight/shadows warnings) or the level gauge.

LOW ISO extension also added.

Regrettably of no value at all to me and other RAW shooters. But perhaps a useful thing for those who shoot OOC jpegs.

Those were the release note items and there is no sign of other unannounced additions that I can see (yet).

Cheers,

Chris

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Anders W
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Re: Hurray!!!
In reply to kenw, 9 months ago

kenw wrote:

These were two things I had wanted on the E-M5 - so glad they added them. Smaller point focus desired for shallow DoF portraits and for much of my landscape shooting I end up over exposing ISO200 already and will be glad to have the extended ISO100 to do it for me (or at least start out closer).

Hi Ken,

Long time no see. Glad to see you around.

But as to the ISO 100: Why would you even want to use that as a RAW shooter? Surely, all the ISO 100 setting does is to alter the metering and the tone curve of the OOC jpegs. The clipping point in RAW stays unchanged and if you go by the live-view "blinkies" when setting exposure, as I do, there is no difference between ISO 100 and ISO 200.

Small focus box without having to change to zoom-frame AF: Well, I am just as happy to have that as you are. This was at the very top of my list of things to be fixed.

There is of course a long list of other things I want to - but these were near the top of the list and there will always be another feature for me to be annoyed by (AEB Fn access - argh!).

As to focus peaking I may be remembering wrong but I thought at some point in the past some one from Olympus had said in an interview that appropriate processing and hardware resources were needed to effectively implement focus peaking and so it might not be practical to do on older models. It was a long time ago and I might be confusing this with a Panasonic interview on the G/GH series cameras instead.

Personally I've tried focus peaking on a few cameras and didn't find it useful, but since I didn't own those cameras and couldn't use it for long enough it is quite possible I just was familiar enough with the implementation to use it effectively.

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Gravi
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Re: This update is a joke.
In reply to AndyPalf, 9 months ago

Great about the firmware. Sorry to sound like a noob idiot but, will this lower ISO equate to genuinely lower ISO or some form of software wizardry that attempts to cheat better IQ at base ISO? i.e. will there be a difference between the previous ISO200 and the new ISO100?

there will be differences. If ISO 100 was qualitywise superior to ISO200 they would have implemented it from the start.

It is 'post processing' thing, in camera. That might mean the image quality is affected to the negative, for instance in DR.

The good news is that using ISO LOW means the ability to use bigger apertures in bright light before the fastest shutterspeed limit is reached. The other good news is that, for long exposures, you gain double exposure times by lowering ISO from 200 to LOW - which makes a big difference in these kind of shots!

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Steen Bay
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Re: Hurray!!!
In reply to Anders W, 9 months ago

Anders W wrote:

kenw wrote:

These were two things I had wanted on the E-M5 - so glad they added them. Smaller point focus desired for shallow DoF portraits and for much of my landscape shooting I end up over exposing ISO200 already and will be glad to have the extended ISO100 to do it for me (or at least start out closer).

Hi Ken,

Long time no see. Glad to see you around.

But as to the ISO 100: Why would you even want to use that as a RAW shooter? Surely, all the ISO 100 setting does is to alter the metering and the tone curve of the OOC jpegs. The clipping point in RAW stays unchanged and if you go by the live-view "blinkies" when setting exposure, as I do, there is no difference between ISO 100 and ISO 200.

If shooting mid/low contrast scenes/subjects (using ETTR), won't ISO 100 then give a less 'washed out' live-view image in the EVF and more natural looking JPEGs?

Small focus box without having to change to zoom-frame AF: Well, I am just as happy to have that as you are. This was at the very top of my list of things to be fixed.

There is of course a long list of other things I want to - but these were near the top of the list and there will always be another feature for me to be annoyed by (AEB Fn access - argh!).

As to focus peaking I may be remembering wrong but I thought at some point in the past some one from Olympus had said in an interview that appropriate processing and hardware resources were needed to effectively implement focus peaking and so it might not be practical to do on older models. It was a long time ago and I might be confusing this with a Panasonic interview on the G/GH series cameras instead.

Personally I've tried focus peaking on a few cameras and didn't find it useful, but since I didn't own those cameras and couldn't use it for long enough it is quite possible I just was familiar enough with the implementation to use it effectively.

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tamerdem
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Re: This update is a joke.
In reply to Gravi, 9 months ago

100

200

You can check the highlight clipping in ISO 100 in the first picture. Especially under "t" letter...

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Art_P
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Lenses too
In reply to Christophotog, 9 months ago

My 12-50 got an update too, and the 45 (I think... I lost track which lens got the update after going through all my lenses)

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tamerdem
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Re: This update is a joke.
In reply to tamerdem, 9 months ago

AF is much more faster with Panaleica 45mm macro. Insanely faster , I really can not believe it.

Is it related to small AF boxes?

did not change with 20mm.1,7. and a little faster with 14mm 2.5.

photos in the upper post were taken by 20mm 1.7 at f2.5...

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Corkcampbell
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Your memory is correct.
In reply to kenw, 9 months ago

I also remember an Oly statesman explaining why focus peaking couldn't be implemented. One source for the interview was the 4/3 rumor site.

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Art_P
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Thanks!
In reply to Thomas Niemann, 9 months ago

Couldn't find the small focus box W/o your help

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Art_P
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Have you considered
In reply to Olfdee, 9 months ago

some of what you expect would require a change in hardware?

I think time lapse might require a different/additional timer chip.

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Brian Wadie
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Re: E-M5 Firmware update... V 2.0 today..
In reply to Christophotog, 9 months ago

updates without problem on my camera  and seems to do what it says

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Henry Richardson
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Pseudo focus peaking with the E-M5 possible
In reply to Christophotog, 9 months ago

Here is a post for a way to get pseudo focus peaking with the E-M5:

http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/51421758

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Martin.au
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Re: E-M5 Firmware update... V 2.0 today..
In reply to Christophotog, 9 months ago

Christophotog wrote:

baxters wrote:

To select the small target via SCP:
-bring up the SCP
-highlight the focus box and press OK
-press INFO.

Now you can use either the rearmost dial or up/down arrow buttons to cycle thru the focus box choices. The left/right arrows or frontmost dial cycle thru face detect modes.

OK. I selected small target box and get it when it locks focus. But I use touch screen to position the focus box, I get the big target box. Anyone care to explain?

I can see that too.. But I also just tested the same process on my E-M1 and guess what! It does the same thing. Small square focus-point when using the half-press or EVF but large square focus point when using touch focus.

CJ

That's because we have fat fingers. You need the Oly E-M0 Medium format edition with 8" touchscreen.

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duartix
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Re: Incorrect Explanation
In reply to texinwien, 9 months ago

texinwien wrote:

Thomas Niemann wrote:

Two new features were included in the firmware update: ISO 100 and small focus points.

ISO 100. In the ISO menu you'll notice ISO 100 is marked as LOW and ISO 200 is Recommended. This indicates that ISO 100 is actually ISO 200 over-exposed by one stop. For example, if the ISO 200 exposure was 1/100 @ f/4, and you shot it at 1/50 instead, you would be over-exposing by one stop. And 1/50 @ f/4 would be the proper exposure for ISO 100. The result would be highlight clipping and less dynamic range because ISO 200 is the optimal ISO for the sensor. As a benefit, shadows would receive more exposure and, consequently, less noise.

As I have noted elsewhere in this thread, this explanation is incorrect. It is incorrect for the E-M1 and the E-P5, and will with practical certainty also be incorrect for the E-M5.

ISO 200 on the E-M5 (and all of the other Olympus m43 cameras with this Sony sensor) is actually ISO ~100 underexposed. The new LOW settings will be like ISO 100 exposed correctly.

Are you talking about this? http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Olympus/OM-D-E-M1#tabs-2
Then you also mean that ISO400 is also ISO ~200 underexposed and that ISO800 is ISO ~1600 underexposed, and so on...
We were talking nominal ISO here, that's why it gets confusing. But if this is your reason, then it's nothing but a JPEG trick.

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