a lot of pressure on Sony now ...

Started 6 months ago | Discussions
NomadMark
Regular MemberPosts: 448Gear list
Like?
Re: what pressure?
In reply to forpetessake, 6 months ago

forpetessake wrote:

miro3 wrote:

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7)

I'm not sure what you think Sony should match or outperform. If we take sensors, for example, then Fuji is still using the old Sony 16MP sensor, and even A5000 is already using a newer better 20MP sensor. Obviously A7000 wouldn't be behind A5000.

Maybe, you are talking about body, ergonomics, etc. Then most people hope A7000 will retain the small rangefinder form factor, so it will definitely not match Fuji.

and the successor of the A7r.

This is a completely different category, which no APS-C camera can match, so it makes no sense bringing it into discussion.

How do you think Sony will respond?

Respond? Do they need to respond? To what, exactly?

-- hide signature --

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter -- Winston Churchill

Fuji is using a Sony 16mp sensor?! Ummmm...no. Fuji is using a Fuji 16mp sensor, that seems to beat the pants of Sony's 16mp sensor. At least as far as I know. Different right down to the pixel layout.

 NomadMark's gear list:NomadMark's gear list
Sony RX1R Sony Alpha 7R Canon EF 50mm f/1.2L USM Canon EF 400mm f/5.6L USM Canon EF 17-40mm f/4.0L USM +7 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Clayton1985
Veteran MemberPosts: 3,795
Like?
Re: what pressure?
In reply to NomadMark, 6 months ago

NomadMark wrote:

forpetessake wrote:

miro3 wrote:

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7)

I'm not sure what you think Sony should match or outperform. If we take sensors, for example, then Fuji is still using the old Sony 16MP sensor, and even A5000 is already using a newer better 20MP sensor. Obviously A7000 wouldn't be behind A5000.

Maybe, you are talking about body, ergonomics, etc. Then most people hope A7000 will retain the small rangefinder form factor, so it will definitely not match Fuji.

and the successor of the A7r.

This is a completely different category, which no APS-C camera can match, so it makes no sense bringing it into discussion.

How do you think Sony will respond?

Respond? Do they need to respond? To what, exactly?

-- hide signature --

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter -- Winston Churchill

Fuji is using a Sony 16mp sensor?! Ummmm...no. Fuji is using a Fuji 16mp sensor, that seems to beat the pants of Sony's 16mp sensor. At least as far as I know. Different right down to the pixel layout.

I'd be interested to know where you're getting this from and if you could provide anything more to back up either of your claims?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Robert Morris
Contributing MemberPosts: 686Gear list
Like?
Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to miro3, 6 months ago

I think that, is a little too much wishful thinking.

-- hide signature --

RM

 Robert Morris's gear list:Robert Morris's gear list
Olympus XZ-1 Nikon D90 Nikon D700 Nikon 1 V1 Nikon 1 J1 +27 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
PVCdroid
Senior MemberPosts: 1,684Gear list
Like?
Re: what pressure?
In reply to NomadMark, 6 months ago

forpetessake wrote:

miro3 wrote:

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7)

I'm not sure what you think Sony should match or outperform. If we take sensors, for example, then Fuji is still using the old Sony 16MP sensor, and even A5000 is already using a newer better 20MP sensor. Obviously A7000 wouldn't be behind A5000.

Maybe, you are talking about body, ergonomics, etc. Then most people hope A7000 will retain the small rangefinder form factor, so it will definitely not match Fuji.

and the successor of the A7r.

This is a completely different category, which no APS-C camera can match, so it makes no sense bringing it into discussion.

How do you think Sony will respond?

Respond? Do they need to respond? To what, exactly?

-- hide signature --

The best argument against democracy is a five-minute conversation with the average voter -- Winston Churchill

Fuji is using a Sony 16mp sensor?! Ummmm...no. Fuji is using a Fuji 16mp sensor, that seems to beat the pants of Sony's 16mp sensor. At least as far as I know. Different right down to the pixel layout.

I wish you were right and that there was another company giving Sony a run for their money. I think we would all be better off with more competition in the sensor business.

 PVCdroid's gear list:PVCdroid's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-5N Sony Alpha NEX-7 Sony Alpha 7R
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
stevo23
Senior MemberPosts: 3,147Gear list
Like?
Re: David: do not agree...
In reply to jpr2, 6 months ago

jpr2 wrote:

salla30 wrote:

agreed. I would far rather see developments in accuracy of autofocus; and an ability to easily select and lock on to a "target" more accurately, than shaving milliseconds off the speed (and perhaps at the expense of accuracy)

David

So as your title suggests, you don't want more autofocus accuracy?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
stevo23
Senior MemberPosts: 3,147Gear list
Like?
Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to parallaxproblem, 6 months ago

parallaxproblem wrote:

dynaxx wrote:

there may be camera makers out there that try to trump a popular offering from the competition. Sony certainly never has. They plough their own furrow as you can see from the introduction of the A900, the RXI, SLT, the Nex range and the A7000 They were groundbreakers but, sadly, groundbreaking doesn't always translate into profitability.

The Fuji releases throw into sharp relief the diffrence in customer awareness between these two companies: Fuji understand their customers and make products geared towards them.

Yes that is true. Fuji customers wanted poor and slow autofocus as well as no RAW support for many months after release. Even now, raw support isn't great. There are so many quirks and holes in the Fuji offering, you really have to want it. What they have done very well is create good image quality and a series of excellent lenses.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
captura
Forum ProPosts: 12,806Gear list
Like?
Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to socode, 6 months ago

socode wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

socode wrote:

I'm still none the wiser as to what you want nor why you can't upgrade to e.g. a NEX-7 equivalent until it has a successor, if you have a 4 year old NEX-5.

Does it matter what I personally want?

The users of a camera system bought into that system because it had certain things that appealed to them. In the case of NEX, for a long time the USP's (Unique Selling Points) IMHO were:

But I was also one of those users who bought into NEX initially, what makes you think you're speaking for me?

- small body size which came from 'brick' format

The size difference for a central EVF wouldn't have been important to me, and I bought a NEX-7 despite it being a brick, not because of it. The brick made more sense on the original NEX-5 because it didn't have a viewfinder. Remind me, where did the EVF go on the NEX-5?

The 'brick' as you call it became very popular because of it's comparatively much smaller size and portability. And compared to classic Canikons (and I have two) the lenses were build very rugged, metal clad and lens mounts. And smaller than Canikon APS-C's.

A couple of Nex generations back, Sony introduced the FDA EV1S EVF which could be mounted on NEX-F3, 5N, FR and 5T models. I picked up a used one quite inexpensively. It is 100% equal to the EVF on the 6 & 7 models.

It's too bad you didn't take advantage of this device.

- high quality of construction (partially metal body on NEX-5, almost fully metal body on NEX-7 and all lenses had metal bodies)

- ability to use legacy lenses

- various high tech features

Legacy lenses are still fine, and I'm pretty sure any new cameras will continue to have various high tech features.

The NEX range at the time of discontinuation had four cameras in it: NEX-3, NEX-5, NEX-6, NEX-7

With the new range it would seem that we are looking at 2 cameras instead:

- the NEX-3 and NEX-5 replaced by a NEX-3 level camera, the A5000

I'm not sure why the number of cameras in the range is important. Wouldn't you evaluate a specific camera model for its suitability/price from your own perspective? Reducing SKUs intrinsically makes sense if having more doesn't increase your profit margin or some segments are poor sellers.

There were a total of 8 models designated officially as NEX models. Newer members might be interested in knowing the long list of steady improvements made to NEX since the inception. God to know for re-sale purposes, too?

- if the rumours are true then NEX-6 and NEX-7 replaced by a NEX-6 level camera, I speculate the A7000

OK. So they may introduce yet another choice, which would be 'bad'.

Not good nor bad, just 'there.'

No

The A3000 is not a NEX replacement camera and there is no room between price level of A5000 and A7000 for a NEX-5 replacement

OK, so you prefer a left EVF again. And the A5000 isn't good enough for some reason. And you don't want to splash for an A7000 regardless of what it looks like. Right?

A3000 is a junky parts-bin camera with a sensor built in vain hope that it might take away a few sales from the Canon Rebel T3, a REAL cheapo camera that 'looks' OK and sells by the thousands in department/Big Box stores.

Therefore there appear to be no plans at moment for a NEX-5 or 'real' NEX-7 replacement at a CS

OK, so introducing a new camera reduces your options. Got it.

I repeat that nobody with a NEX-5, NEX-5N or NEX-5T will be interested in the A5000 so all NEX-5, NEX-6 and NEX-7 users have to look at one camera... the NEX-7 replacement

So your logic is that "no-one" with a NEX-5 variant will be interested in an A5000, another APS-C or moving to FF E mount. I doubt it.

Of course they won't. It's a cheap knock-off of a NEX 5 but lightweight plastic and lacking most of the NEX-5 features. It's a con-job.

If it is not a 'brick' format then the first USP in my list is lost... hence my 'dump the hump' signature

OK, so it's a problem for you. I prefer centre EVFs and probably so do all left-eyed people amongst others.

Not so many, in the grand scheme of things. Do they make ride-side models for videographers?

If it has a 'NEX-6' level of construction then the second USP is lost for existing NEX-7 users

It's nice, but it's also dependent on price for some users. Incidentally I have a NEX-7, and the body quality wasn't why I bought it.

Was it the fast-talking salesman?

Doubtless it will support legacy lenses and have high tech features so the last two USP's remain but that is not enough to remain in a camera system in my opinion.

So back to my original point - essentially you personally want left EVFs and metal bodies in consumer cameras, and for that reason you are going to switch system. That isn't universal.

What eventually become universal is that well-paid shills for Sony and others continue to hijack threads like this one, and eventually people tend to forget what was best, under the huge onslaught of dishonest marketeers / con artists.

Waiting for a replacement is fine if you are sure a replacement is going to arrive, but Sony are refusing to give us any idea what the future plans are

Which company does?

and are busy re-organising their product ranges at the moment so we are all completely in the dark and it is quite probable that no replacement will be arriving. If a system is going in a direction you don't want then you need to start looking at alternatives quickly

Why? Your camera won't stop working, there's go all of your other kit anyway over a period of time.

Did you not notice that many posters from the last few years have disappeared, and some have have bought Panasonics, Olympuses, Fujis, Canons, Nikons and others. Sony has a sad history of being unreliable and losing the trust of it's fan base. Because they can get away with it.

, particularly if you think that others are not going to like it either as you stand the risk of being left with valueless equipment and no future upgrade path if the producer's strategy fails as the owners of many 'orphaned' camera systems will tell you

But you are using legacy lenses, right? And Sony have just announced a brick camera, it's just that you don't like it?

As I said, junk. Haven't you got that yet?

What do I, personally, want? OK, FWIW I want *real* replacements for the NEX-5 and NEX-6 and NEX-7 bodies (we gave the NEX-3 replacement now in the form of the A5000) which continue with the same basic characteristics (eg. 'brick' body format, quality of construction, price) but just add improved features (eg. AF, corrected firmware bugs etc) in the way that we as NEX users thought was going to happen prior to the the discontinuation of the NEX name and the 'faux-DSLR' styling of the A3000 and A7/r

Can I honestly be any clearer?

I'm sure you understand what you mean quite well, but has it occurred to you that what you want may not be reflect the decisions made by other consumers?

Most consumers do not read forums like this. And presently with your kind of prattle of misinformation, it might not do much except confuse them, anyway.

 captura's gear list:captura's gear list
Fujifilm X10 Sony Alpha NEX-7 NEX5R Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 R Sony E 55-210mm F4.5-6.3 OSS +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Tuloom
Senior MemberPosts: 1,007
Like?
Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to captura, 6 months ago

Maybe a limited edition?

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
captura
Forum ProPosts: 12,806Gear list
Like?
Re: You guys have to get your story straight
In reply to bluevellet, 6 months ago

bluevellet wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Astrophotographer 10 wrote:

If an A8r came out with 54 mp full frame and in camera IBIS - wow. That would be light years ahead of anything.

Once the Sony/Olympus transaction is complete, Sony will have access to all the IP that once belonged exclusively to Olympus. So to me, that sounds like a logical thing.

So the company Sony bought to get into the DSLR, Minolta, happened to have pioneered IBIS. Not only that but Sony uses IBIS in its own current DSLR, even full frame ones. The basic technological knowledge has already been there for IBIS with Sony.

It's a bit like arguing Sony needs to acquire Panasonic to get full swivel LCDs in its mirrorless cameras. Sony already has the know-how, they just choose not to use it in their mirrorless cameras for marketing and technical reasons.

Sony MILC cameras of course do not use IBIS. Olympus has perfected the concept with their 3 and 5 axis IBIS and are reportedly co-operating with Sony engineers to equip newer Sony cameras with a miniaturized version. The 2 companies are now partners.

 captura's gear list:captura's gear list
Fujifilm X10 Sony Alpha NEX-7 NEX5R Olympus M.Zuiko Digital ED 40-150mm 1:4-5.6 R Sony E 55-210mm F4.5-6.3 OSS +9 more
Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Tuloom
Senior MemberPosts: 1,007
Like?
Re: You guys have to get your story straight
In reply to captura, 6 months ago

captura wrote:

bluevellet wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

Astrophotographer 10 wrote:

If an A8r came out with 54 mp full frame and in camera IBIS - wow. That would be light years ahead of anything.

Once the Sony/Olympus transaction is complete, Sony will have access to all the IP that once belonged exclusively to Olympus. So to me, that sounds like a logical thing.

So the company Sony bought to get into the DSLR, Minolta, happened to have pioneered IBIS. Not only that but Sony uses IBIS in its own current DSLR, even full frame ones. The basic technological knowledge has already been there for IBIS with Sony.

It's a bit like arguing Sony needs to acquire Panasonic to get full swivel LCDs in its mirrorless cameras. Sony already has the know-how, they just choose not to use it in their mirrorless cameras for marketing and technical reasons.

Sony MILC cameras of course do not use IBIS.

That's a bird, too.

Reply   Reply with quote   Complain
Keyboard shortcuts:
FForum MMy threads