a lot of pressure on Sony now ...

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
stevo23
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Re: Greg: a split view in EVF, giving both full sensor's image as well as a selected crop...
In reply to jpr2, 11 months ago

jpr2 wrote:

Astrophotographer 10 wrote:

Hilarious post. Good reponse.

All I read is ciriticisms the mirrorless AF is not fast enough. So it seems (and neither right nor wrong here) not wanting fast AF would be the extreme minority based on the number of posts about it.

I can see your point though, I quite enjoy manual focusing. My Sony A7r is brilliant at that. But the Fuji XT1 just got even more brilliant at it with picture in a picture manual focus where you can with the main view and a small magnified slice of the picture on the same screen with your choice of manual focus aid (split view, focus peaking).

This is what I do with my A7r in 2 steps anyway. I use focus peaking and then if the object is static I use magnified view to check for totally accurate focus. It would be nice to have both available like that without extra clicks and presses. I can see that being what DP Review referred to as further refinements needed in the manual focusing system of the A7. A bit unfair of them to say so as the Sony system up until this Fuji one (assuming the Fuji one works as advertised) has been the best out there.

Greg.

a split view in EVF, giving both full sensor's image as well as a selected crop is what very many of us wanted for ages - one of several crucial reasons the XT-1 is and instant hit. Announced a moment ago it has already dethroned A7 as most often pre-ordered body. And the supposedly very fast AF (we need an independent confirmation on this, and soon) is for sure among major reasons too

And yet, still only a 16Mp sensor. The likes of which is bested in image quality by so many other devices out there including several APS-C ones. Folks should boycott this camera until Fuji ups their resolution. Does it finally at least have an ISO100 setting?

And how does one know it has dethroned anything? Are there statistics out there for B&H and Amazon?

But I love this idea of jumping ship because the autofocus is a few milliseconds faster and there is a screen in screen focusing feature. I see how they would be useful, and there's no slack in Fuji lenses, but your present system would have to be weak to cause such a jump.

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stevo23
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Re: what pressure?
In reply to Donny out of Element here, 11 months ago

Donny out of Element here wrote:

forpetessake wrote:

miro3 wrote:

How do you think Sony will respond?

Respond? Do they need to respond? To what, exactly?

To fast tracking AF with 8fps. To better high ISO performance of "old Sony 16Mp sensor". To better lens lineup. This 3 conditions are more than enough.

Yes, if one owns a NEX, this would be easy to understand. Sad, but easy. I do wonder if the NEX-7 still isn't a better image maker.

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EinsteinsGhost
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Sony's Greatest Challenge is not Fuji but...
In reply to miro3, 11 months ago

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7) and the successor of the A7r.

How do you think Sony will respond?

Well, a7r is a FF camera so a different class.

As for a7000 (assuming it to be NEX-7 replacement), Sony's bigger challenge comes from the loudmouths who would be fixated on what Sony calls it and where the EVF is located. In other words: distraction and distractirs are likely the greater challenge. Obviously, Fuji does not need to deal with the nuisance.

The next challenge may be to properly train many professional reviews about how they should be using the cameras.

And finally, price, product features and quality. It is anybody's guess at this time whether Sony will use 20 MP sensor or a new 24mp. Either way, Sony would offer more resolution.

Back when NEX-7 was launched, an issue was lack of premium lenses. Since late 2012, that has been addressed with regularity. Now buyers even have FF lens options which will continue to grow.

Price: I expect Sony to keep it below a7, and within reach of more buyers. I personally would rather spend on lenses than on a camera body.

Features: Customization over redundant knobs and buttons. I prefer the former. I personally find ISO dial in Fuji cameras a gimmick although there is market for that. The key feature would be AF. I doubt we are at a point of seeing focal plane AF system displace mirror yet. Fast AF is less of an issue now (even FF camera like a7 did a good job in my hands). What I miss is ability to track, and do so continuously. Until that time, my personal solution remains using a mirror based camera (a55 in my case) or using SLT adapter on my NEX-6.

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quezra
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Re: Sony's Greatest Challenge is not Fuji but...
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, 11 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7) and the successor of the A7r.

How do you think Sony will respond?

Well, a7r is a FF camera so a different class.

As for a7000 (assuming it to be NEX-7 replacement), Sony's bigger challenge comes from the loudmouths who would be fixated on what Sony calls it and where the EVF is located. In other words: distraction and distractirs are likely the greater challenge. Obviously, Fuji does not need to deal with the nuisance.

Well Fuji users must be thinking how the X-T1 spells doom for the X-Pro and the X-E series! The end is nigh! I mean it's been 2 whole years since the X-Pro1 came out, it is clearly dead and buried now the hump is here!!!

On a serious note, Sony have been gunning for a broad base since the beginning (anyone who understands this integral part of Sony's strategy never had a fear that the NEX-3 and 5 lines were going anywhere - instead they add to it with A3000). Yes, they didn't go for superfast lenses, but they went for more standard ones to fill out the system first, and who can quibble with the price and quality you get from unassuming lenses like the SEL50? These are cheaper and more accessible for more people. Fuji are gambling that the enthusiast market is big enough for them to make money off a much smaller niche - extremely pricey bodies and a minimum floor for the prices of their lenses that is much higher than Sony's. Is it paying off for them? While Fuji is yet to turn a profit, all of the indications we have read is that Sony is making money on its ILC lines.

TLDR version: I doubt DPR posters will sway Sony's strategy; Fuji's problem is that they listen too much to a tiny niche of camera buyers whose absolute numbers aren't big enough to sustain a camera operation (hence the rather late descent into 'low-end' cameras like the XA/XM series).

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Dennis
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Re: Sony's Greatest Challenge is not Fuji but...
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, 11 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

As for a7000 (assuming it to be NEX-7 replacement), Sony's bigger challenge comes from the loudmouths who would be fixated on what Sony calls it and where the EVF is located. In other words: distraction and distractirs are likely the greater challenge.

Right ! Sony cameras would be perfect if only everyone would just like them !

Obviously, Fuji does not need to deal with the nuisance.

Exactly ... man, did they get lucky by not having people dislike their products. It's just not a fair and level playing field out there.

The next challenge may be to properly train many professional reviews about how they should be using the cameras.

Right again! Sony doesn't design products that work the way photographers work; they design products that you have to adapt to. And as soon as everyone adapts to the Sony way, they'll see the genius of its products !

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Dennis
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Re: Sony's Greatest Challenge is not Fuji but...
In reply to quezra, 11 months ago

quezra wrote:

Is it paying off for them? While Fuji is yet to turn a profit, all of the indications we have read is that Sony is making money on its ILC lines.

TLDR version: I doubt DPR posters will sway Sony's strategy; Fuji's problem is that they listen too much to a tiny niche of camera buyers whose absolute numbers aren't big enough to sustain a camera operation (hence the rather late descent into 'low-end' cameras like the XA/XM series).

That's an interesting issue. I've often wondered over the markets seeming obsession with market share in terms of number of camera bodies sold. There's never any mention of number of lenses sold. A company makes a little money off someone who buys a $550 entry level kit and adds a $150 tele zoom, then sits on that for 6 years. But they make more money off a $1300 kit followed by 2-3 lenses at $500-1000 each. Sure, if they sell 20 entry level kits, they make 20 times the small profit. Both are legit markets. I wonder if Fuji was smart to concentrate on the high end market and not try to dabble in both simultaneously. At least they rolled out a line of lenses to satsify a high end user quicker than Sony did. (How many posts did I read from people interested in the NEX-7, but holding out because the 24mm CZ lens was the only lens worth of it). I'm not saying Fuji is bound for success, but I don't see their approach as a model for failure, either. I really hope they do well. I just appreciate a company designing products specifically for enthusiast photographers. (My biggest knock against Fuji is the X-trans sensor which is apparently great for jpeg shooters thanks to Fuji's own jpeg engine, but not so great for raw shooters, depending on which software you use).

Personally, I think Sony's greatest challenge now is the same challenge it's been all along: making a dent in the Nikon/Canon duopoly. It doesn't matter whether you're selling a DSLR or an SLT or a CSC; consumers are going to look to Nikon & Canon first; most new buyers will continue to consider them first while most existing camera owners already have Nikon or Canon. And before CSCs can compete with each other, they have to convince buyers that they're better than DSLRs.

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: Sony's Greatest Challenge is not Fuji but...
In reply to Dennis, 11 months ago

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

As for a7000 (assuming it to be NEX-7 replacement), Sony's bigger challenge comes from the loudmouths who would be fixated on what Sony calls it and where the EVF is located. In other words: distraction and distractirs are likely the greater challenge.

Right ! Sony cameras would be perfect if only everyone would just like them !

Obviously, Fuji does not need to deal with the nuisance.

Exactly ... man, did they get lucky by not having people dislike their products. It's just not a fair and level playing field out there.

The next challenge may be to properly train many professional reviews about how they should be using the cameras.

Right again! Sony doesn't design products that work the way photographers work; they design products that you have to adapt to. And as soon as everyone adapts to the Sony way, they'll see the genius of its products !

You are getting carried away. But the most useful argument you make is about blaming the tool. I don't take blame the tool first approach. Its been obvious that even many "pro" reviewers don't get it. Or may be they do but are obligated to dispose off their opinion in set ways. They are human too!

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quezra
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Re: Sony's Greatest Challenge is not Fuji but...
In reply to Dennis, 11 months ago

Well take a look at what the latest trend actually is - it's not the DSLR shape, it's actually everyone rushing into the NEX-6 space: A competent compact VF mirrorless at a sub-$1000 price. GX7, OMD-EM10, XE-1&2 - none of these cameras came out until Sony redefined the space. Before it was GH2 + EM5 + NEX-7 + X-Pro1 then a wide gulf to their lower models. EM10 sheds the usual M4/3 self-justification nonsense about the necessity of weather-sealing and goes for cheaper (though I do fear the hump here will only sell well with the converted). If weather-sealing was all-important (and it certainly is important to enthusiasts, myself included), why did Olympus dump it? Because winning awards is one thing, but the mass market is below the EM1/EM5 pricing and they had to get something out to match the NEX-6, GX7 and X-E2.

But Sony are even ahead of everyone in this game again - that's the A3000. It will be interesting to see if there's a reaction from the competition here, because at present A3000 occupies an uncontested niche in price/performance ratio.

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cosmonaut
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to miro3, 11 months ago

I don't think that the new Fuji is as good as what Sony offers now. I wouldn't swap my a7R for two of them and a bag full of Fuji lenses.

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parallaxproblem
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Re: Sony's Greatest Challenge is not Fuji but...
In reply to Dennis, 11 months ago

Dennis wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

As for a7000 (assuming it to be NEX-7 replacement), Sony's bigger challenge comes from the loudmouths who would be fixated on what Sony calls it and where the EVF is located. In other words: distraction and distractirs are likely the greater challenge.

Right ! Sony cameras would be perfect if only everyone would just like them !

Obviously, Fuji does not need to deal with the nuisance.

Exactly ... man, did they get lucky by not having people dislike their products. It's just not a fair and level playing field out there.

The next challenge may be to properly train many professional reviews about how they should be using the cameras.

Right again! Sony doesn't design products that work the way photographers work; they design products that you have to adapt to. And as soon as everyone adapts to the Sony way, they'll see the genius of its products !

Warning: most of these guys don't do irony...  luckly I am unable to read most of the responses you will get but I'm pretty sure they will take you seriously on this post - you aren't dealing with the sharpest tools in the set here (though remove 'sharpest' and you get a bit closer!)

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DUMP the HUMP! Campaign for *REAL* NEX replacement bodies
* newly updated ignore list: hostile responses are probably not visible to me

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captura
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to parallaxproblem, 11 months ago

parallaxproblem wrote:

miro3 wrote:

martindesu wrote:

If the successor to the NEX-7 is to be announced within 1 month, there's no time to chance their plan, or "respond".

Well, rumor sites had the specs like 2 months ago.

And if Sony has informants in Fuji, they might have had the specs much earlier.

So, they have known the specs for a while now, and have no excuse really.

Yes, of course they know

This sudden rush of retro-bodied cameras with humps... coincidence?

That is what is so absurd about the shills saying "you don't expect Sony to give their product strategy to the opposition do you?" when I said that Sony needed to communicate to their users in general terms what the future was for NEX users... the camera companies tell each other in general terms what they are planning!

I had a friend who worked in the 'competitive evaluation' dept of a major car company... they even used to share out their prototype cars so each could plan a 'response'!

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DUMP the HUMP! Campaign for *REAL* NEX replacement bodies
* newly updated ignore list: hostile responses are probably not visible to me

True enough, and this morning Olympus introduced yet another 'humped' camera, this one more affordable, 3-axis IBIS, and VERY fast AF.

And because Olympus and Sony are now sharing nearly everything, they cam plan together to dominate the market.

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2014/01/29/olympus-om-d-e-m10-brings-e-m5-down-to-size?utm_campaign=internal-link&utm_source=mainmenu&utm_medium=text&ref=mainmenu

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EinsteinsGhost
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Oh the irony...
In reply to parallaxproblem, 11 months ago

Dennis wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

As for a7000 (assuming it to be NEX-7 replacement), Sony's bigger challenge comes from the loudmouths who would be fixated on what Sony calls it and where the EVF is located. In other words: distraction and distractirs are likely the greater challenge.

Right ! Sony cameras would be perfect if only everyone would just like them !

Obviously, Fuji does not need to deal with the nuisance.

Exactly ... man, did they get lucky by not having people dislike their products. It's just not a fair and level playing field out there.

The next challenge may be to properly train many professional reviews about how they should be using the cameras.

Right again! Sony doesn't design products that work the way photographers work; they design products that you have to adapt to. And as soon as everyone adapts to the Sony way, they'll see the genius of its products !

Warning: most of these guys don't do irony...  luckly I am unable to read most of the responses you will get but I'm pretty sure they will take you seriously on this post - you aren't dealing with the sharpest tools in the set here (though remove 'sharpest' and you get a bit closer!)

-- hide signature --

DUMP the HUMP! Campaign for *REAL* NEX replacement bodies
* newly updated ignore list: hostile responses are probably not visible to me

Humpity hump hump.

Dump the hump is merely a big load of dump now.

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PVCdroid
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to miro3, 11 months ago

miro3 wrote:

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7) and the successor of the A7r.

How do you think Sony will respond?

I hope they don't respond with a similar design and don't like all the knobs and faux hump. Do you really need a PASM, Shutter speed, and Exposure compensation dial? These are all electronically controlled and for design only in my opinion. One or two flat control wheels can do all of this for the user and quickly once they figure out the camera.

As long as fully functional, I believe in "less is more". The pity of this is that mirrorless RF style cameras have traditionally not looked like DSLR cameras and buyers are uneducated but want the best for their money so they believe these dials and humps are necessary. They also add unnecessary bulk to the camera. Never mind this is just a 16mp sensor which isn't an improvement over Fuji's other APS-C cameras. Unfortunately I think Sony is going to take the low road on design with the NEX-7 replacement and it will look very similar to the A7/A7R. Until Canikon begins to change their designs once they adopt EVF vs. OVF, we will be stuck with this look. Kudos to the Japanese for figuring out the NEX cameras are just as good as DSLR and bought them up like crazy. Why can't the rest of the world get this? The classic DSLR look is old and boring.

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jpr2
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Pat: quite a mixed bag
In reply to PVCdroid, 11 months ago

PVCdroid wrote:

I hope they don't respond with a similar design and don't like all the knobs and faux hump. Do you really need a PASM, Shutter speed, and Exposure compensation dial? These are all electronically controlled and for design only in my opinion. One or two flat control wheels can do all of this for the user and quickly once they figure out the camera.

As long as fully functional, I believe in "less is more". The pity of this is that mirrorless RF style cameras have traditionally not looked like DSLR cameras and buyers are uneducated but want the best for their money so they believe these dials and humps are necessary. They also add unnecessary bulk to the camera. Never mind this is just a 16mp sensor which isn't an improvement over Fuji's other APS-C cameras. Unfortunately I think Sony is going to take the low road on design with the NEX-7 replacement and it will look very similar to the A7/A7R. Until Canikon begins to change their designs once they adopt EVF vs. OVF, we will be stuck with this look. Kudos to the Japanese for figuring out the NEX cameras are just as good as DSLR and bought them up like crazy. Why can't the rest of the world get this? The classic DSLR look is old and boring.

judging by pre-orders bar at 28.3% (more than 6% higher than A7) to the right of my editing window on DPR, the XT-1 is an instant hit, so many users seem to like what you don't, for me it is a very mixed bag:

  • the goods: [a] the aperture ring on lenses, [b] all the dials for shutter speed, ISO, EC; [c] supposedly very fast AF (reminds to be seen whether all that speed applies only to static targets or rather it will be as good for vary fast, dynamic action shooting/tracking = at least as good as on prosumer level DSLRs?); [d] weather seal; [e] plenty of configurable buttons;
  • no so good but still positive: [f] tiny add-on accessory flash (yet better than no small flash at all); [g] only 1/4000 sec. min. SS; [h] 16 Mpx only sensor - it is a high time for Fuji to ump their APS-C sensors to at least 24 Mpx; [i] only 1/180 sec. flash sync;
  • not good at all [j] humpy-dumpy retro styled VF housing (this is easily the very worst part of XT-1 for me); [k] relatively huge body = much larger than Nex-7, larger front profile even than the Eos 100d;

jpr2

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Greynerd
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Re: Pat: quite a mixed bag
In reply to jpr2, 11 months ago

Do not forget that as Nex, if it has a viewfinder, this will be in the corner so primarily the people on this forum will be those that prefer this style. Bar the GX7 the trend seems to be away from this which is understandable as this is what DSLR users are used to.

Looking at all the new cameras on the right of this DPR (Olympus, Fuji,Sony and Samsung) screen they all have a central viewfinder which means a hump. How else can you do it?

jpr2 wrote:

PVCdroid wrote:

I hope they don't respond with a similar design and don't like all the knobs and faux hump. Do you really need a PASM, Shutter speed, and Exposure compensation dial? These are all electronically controlled and for design only in my opinion. One or two flat control wheels can do all of this for the user and quickly once they figure out the camera.

As long as fully functional, I believe in "less is more". The pity of this is that mirrorless RF style cameras have traditionally not looked like DSLR cameras and buyers are uneducated but want the best for their money so they believe these dials and humps are necessary. They also add unnecessary bulk to the camera. Never mind this is just a 16mp sensor which isn't an improvement over Fuji's other APS-C cameras. Unfortunately I think Sony is going to take the low road on design with the NEX-7 replacement and it will look very similar to the A7/A7R. Until Canikon begins to change their designs once they adopt EVF vs. OVF, we will be stuck with this look. Kudos to the Japanese for figuring out the NEX cameras are just as good as DSLR and bought them up like crazy. Why can't the rest of the world get this? The classic DSLR look is old and boring.

judging by pre-orders bar at 28.3% (more than 6% higher than A7) to the right of my editing window on DPR, the XT-1 is an instant hit, so many users seem to like what you don't, for me it is a very mixed bag:

  • the goods: [a] the aperture ring on lenses, [b] all the dials for shutter speed, ISO, EC; [c] supposedly very fast AF (reminds to be seen whether all that speed applies only to static targets or rather it will be as good for vary fast, dynamic action shooting/tracking = at least as good as on prosumer level DSLRs?); [d] weather seal; [e] plenty of configurable buttons;
  • no so good but still positive: [f] tiny add-on accessory flash (yet better than no small flash at all); [g] only 1/4000 sec. min. SS; [h] 16 Mpx only sensor - it is a high time for Fuji to ump their APS-C sensors to at least 24 Mpx; [i] only 1/180 sec. flash sync;
  • not good at all [j] humpy-dumpy retro styled VF housing (this is easily the very worst part of XT-1 for me); [k] relatively huge body = much larger than Nex-7, larger front profile even than the Eos 100d;
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quezra
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Re: Pat: quite a mixed bag
In reply to jpr2, 11 months ago

jpr2 wrote:

judging by pre-orders bar at 28.3% (more than 6% higher than A7) to the right of my editing window on DPR, the XT-1 is an instant hit

Lol that's not a pre-order bar (why would there be pre-orders for the A7 when it's been out 2 months?). It's a 7-day count of most-clicked on cameras at DPR. You'll notice it pretty much aligns with all the newest announcements, up to 7 days old. A7 was as high as 43% at one point, maxed at 7 days after the review came out (unsurprisingly).

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jpr2
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re: yes, I truly hope for the LHC placed VF on the Nex-7 mk-II...
In reply to Greynerd, 11 months ago

Greynerd wrote:

Do not forget that as Nex, if it has a viewfinder, this will be in the corner so primarily the people on this forum will be those that prefer this style. Bar the GX7 the trend seems to be away from this which is understandable as this is what DSLR users are used to.

Looking at all the new cameras on the right of this DPR (Olympus, Fuji,Sony and Samsung) screen they all have a central viewfinder which means a hump. How else can you do it?

...as should Sony go with the A7-like humpy-bumpy style, then the only remaining advantage of N7 (and other Nex'en in general) will be their capability to mount mine large collection of lenses in Canon's EF-mount through some smart adapter.

But... it will suffice that MB or some other brilliant people from the Far East would start to offer smart adapters for Fuij's X-mount to EF-mount - thus preserving EXIF's, IS, and aperture controls, with a possibility to hook up AF too - and nothing will be left from Sony's advantage.

And as I by far prefer Fuji's designs for menus, UI in general, and of course their plethora of external controls and configurability. At Fuji they do think photographic way... and this is what I want (along with so many others) - the decision to jump boat will be rather obvious

jpr2

jpr2 wrote:

PVCdroid wrote:

I hope they don't respond with a similar design and don't like all the knobs and faux hump. Do you really need a PASM, Shutter speed, and Exposure compensation dial? These are all electronically controlled and for design only in my opinion. One or two flat control wheels can do all of this for the user and quickly once they figure out the camera.

As long as fully functional, I believe in "less is more". The pity of this is that mirrorless RF style cameras have traditionally not looked like DSLR cameras and buyers are uneducated but want the best for their money so they believe these dials and humps are necessary. They also add unnecessary bulk to the camera. Never mind this is just a 16mp sensor which isn't an improvement over Fuji's other APS-C cameras. Unfortunately I think Sony is going to take the low road on design with the NEX-7 replacement and it will look very similar to the A7/A7R. Until Canikon begins to change their designs once they adopt EVF vs. OVF, we will be stuck with this look. Kudos to the Japanese for figuring out the NEX cameras are just as good as DSLR and bought them up like crazy. Why can't the rest of the world get this? The classic DSLR look is old and boring.

judging by pre-orders bar at 28.3% (more than 6% higher than A7) to the right of my editing window on DPR, the XT-1 is an instant hit, so many users seem to like what you don't, for me it is a very mixed bag:

  • the goods: [a] the aperture ring on lenses, [b] all the dials for shutter speed, ISO, EC; [c] supposedly very fast AF (reminds to be seen whether all that speed applies only to static targets or rather it will be as good for vary fast, dynamic action shooting/tracking = at least as good as on prosumer level DSLRs?); [d] weather seal; [e] plenty of configurable buttons;
  • no so good but still positive: [f] tiny add-on accessory flash (yet better than no small flash at all); [g] only 1/4000 sec. min. SS; [h] 16 Mpx only sensor - it is a high time for Fuji to ump their APS-C sensors to at least 24 Mpx; [i] only 1/180 sec. flash sync;
  • not good at all [j] humpy-dumpy retro styled VF housing (this is easily the very worst part of XT-1 for me); [k] relatively huge body = much larger than Nex-7, larger front profile even than the Eos 100d;
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Dennis
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Re: Sony's Greatest Challenge is not Fuji but...
In reply to quezra, 11 months ago

quezra wrote:

Well take a look at what the latest trend actually is - it's not the DSLR shape, it's actually everyone rushing into the NEX-6 space: A competent compact VF mirrorless at a sub-$1000 price.

Right - that's something I've been saying for many months now is the biggest impediment to CSC sales: lack of affordable models with VFs. It's hard to compete with $500 DSLRs when anything under $1000 is a glorified p&s. So they're doing the right things ... but that just illustrates my point: that their biggest challenge is the same one - Nikon & Canon.

none of these cameras came out until Sony redefined the space.

"redefine the space" sounds like executive speak. They were simply first out with a particular body style, and one which doesn't appear to be bound for success (Panasonic and Olympus both primarily offer mini-DSLR models over RF-style and Fuji's latest puts the EVF in the center, too).

But Sony are even ahead of everyone in this game again - that's the A3000.

This seemed like such a brilliant move until reality set in. The EVF and LCD are so bad that it's hard to imagine anyone preferring this camera to a D3100. I've never seen a Sony camera go on fire sale so quickly. Right idea; wrong product.

It will be interesting to see if there's a reaction from the competition here, because at present A3000 occupies an uncontested niche in price/performance ratio.

They all need to bring down the price of EVF models to sell more units. I think it's a known issue; I don't think the A3000 is a trigger of any kind. (It may demonstrate how not to do it).

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jpr2
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Dennis: I feel perfectly at loss = the a3000 was a disaster not a glory for S.
In reply to Dennis, 11 months ago

Dennis wrote:

This seemed like such a brilliant move until reality set in. The EVF and LCD are so bad that it's hard to imagine anyone preferring this camera to a D3100. I've never seen a Sony camera go on fire sale so quickly. Right idea; wrong product.

errr? what was so brilliant about the a3000? a faux-DSLR form factor? or maybe the price point, but then why was it land-slided (perhaps mud-slided would be a better description) almost immediately after introduction to a dumping point = it is a surprising really why others didn't go into litigation with S. for employing unfair marketing practices and selling below costs?!! (but maybe the cost ARE this low, and then it is a true eye-opener by how much end-users are gutted price-wise).

They all need to bring down the price of EVF models to sell more units. I think it's a known issue; I don't think the A3000 is a trigger of any kind. (It may demonstrate how not to do it).

or... maybe it is = by showing the real manufacturers' costs??

jpr2

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parallaxproblem
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Re: Dennis: I feel perfectly at loss = the a3000 was a disaster not a glory for S.
In reply to jpr2, 11 months ago

jpr2 wrote:

but maybe the cost ARE this low, and then it is a true eye-opener by how much end-users are gutted price-wise

I think that is much more likely - compare the construction and component cost of a mirrorless camera with a DSLR

DSLR has three separate light paths

- lens to sensor

- lens to focus-screen via mirror

- lens to PDAF sensors via principal and secondary mirror

If any of these is out of sync with the other then the camera does not focus correctly - this requires precision engineering and good quality control, both of which are expensive

In a mirrorless camera all you need to do is position the sensor centrally and parallel in relation to the mount and that is the only precision necessary...

DSLR contains pentaprism (or pentamirror), PDAF array and mirror assembly which are precision components with a non-trivial compnent cost

Many Mirrorless cameras do not even contain an EVF so those have no requirement for the VF assmbly either whereas that needs to exist in all DSLRs

Otherwise shutter and other electronics will be pretty similar

And yet the 20MP A5000 with kit lens (but no VF) RRP is set at $600 whereas the 24MP Nikon 3300 DSLR with kit lens RRP is set at $660!

Some serious 'mirrorless gouging' going on there...

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