a lot of pressure on Sony now ...

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miro3
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a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
10 months ago

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7) and the successor of the A7r.

How do you think Sony will respond?

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parallaxproblem
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to miro3, 10 months ago

miro3 wrote:

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7) and the successor of the A7r.

How do you think Sony will respond?

I think the more appropriate question might be "Do Sony themselves have any idea how they are going to respond?"...

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miro3
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to parallaxproblem, 10 months ago

parallaxproblem wrote:

miro3 wrote:

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7) and the successor of the A7r.

How do you think Sony will respond?

I think the more appropriate question might be "Do Sony themselves have any idea how they are going to respond?"...

I don't think they are clueless.

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+1

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blue_skies
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to miro3, 10 months ago

miro3 wrote:

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7) and the successor of the A7r.

How do you think Sony will respond?

In what way?

The Nex-7 with 24Mp still trumps in IQ?

I guess it needs a hump then after all?

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miro3
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to blue_skies, 10 months ago

blue_skies wrote:

miro3 wrote:

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7) and the successor of the A7r.

How do you think Sony will respond?

In what way?

The Nex-7 with 24Mp still trumps in IQ?

I guess it needs a hump then after all?

No hump!

Just:

- fast autofocus

- fast update of the EVF and LCD (the Fuji X-T1 has a display lag for the EVF and LCD of only 0.005 seconds vs. X-E2: 0.05s, and Olympus OM-D E-M1: 0.029s (not sure what these are for the Sony cameras)

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martindesu
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to miro3, 10 months ago

If the successor to the NEX-7 is to be announced within 1 month, there's no time to chance their plan, or "respond".

They'll simply present what they have, or delay.

I think they'll just present what they have. The X-T1 is the first Fuji camera I've looked at and thought... hmmm... maybe! I never got on with their other offerings, but who knows.

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miro3
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to martindesu, 10 months ago

martindesu wrote:

If the successor to the NEX-7 is to be announced within 1 month, there's no time to chance their plan, or "respond".

Well, rumor sites had the specs like 2 months ago.

And if Sony has informants in Fuji, they might have had the specs much earlier.

So, they have known the specs for a while now, and have no excuse really.

They'll simply present what they have, or delay.

I think they'll just present what they have. The X-T1 is the first Fuji camera I've looked at and thought... hmmm... maybe! I never got on with their other offerings, but who knows.

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parallaxproblem
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to miro3, 10 months ago

miro3 wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

miro3 wrote:

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7) and the successor of the A7r.

How do you think Sony will respond?

I think the more appropriate question might be "Do Sony themselves have any idea how they are going to respond?"...

I don't think they are clueless.

Not sure what to think...

I believe they have a strategy (which they annoyingly won't share with their customers) based around rationalising their product range into (maybe) two APS-C models and an unknow number of FF products in both E-mount and A-mount. These will take the number '5' and '7' in each case with the appropriate number of zeros. An entry-level 'hybrid' which looks like an A-mount but actually has an E-mount sits at the bottom of both these ranges

They probably have a long (or maybe not so long) term strategy to switch-off A-mount and move everybody to FF on E-mount... by everybody, I mean everybody that can afford to pay $800 or more for their lenses. Sony have a plan to become very expensive...

My speculation is that this process is almost totally internal/inward-looking and they are looking only at their own restructuring and checking Amazon Pre-Orders as a way of evaluating market success (they only care about launch success... after the product is on the market it is somebody else's problem) and using this as feedback for their next product steering meetings

The X-T1 probably hasn't even really registered on their radar... which is a shame as Fuji seem totally the opposite being very keen to ingratiate themselve with their current users (Sony seemingly don't even realise that they have any of those) and enthusiastic to integreate the features people want into their cameras (we get what Sony thinks we should buy, whatever we might actually want...)

Whatever... if the rumours concerning the NEX-7 replacement being in a couple of weeks, the decisions concerning it have already been made so there's not much we can do now... the time for shouting was in the run-up to Christmas (well, it was more like the shills shouting down anybody who shouted, unfortunately) when the product steering groups might still have been meeting but now the dice is cast

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We will have to see. I suspect that the $800 and 'better EVF' rumours will mean that we see a plastic NEX-6 replacement with a higher-res PDAF-equipped sensor and a 'hump' containing an A99/A7 EVF labelled as an A7000... but perhaps I will be proved wrong (I hope so)

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stevo23
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to miro3, 10 months ago

miro3 wrote:

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7) and the successor of the A7r.

How do you think Sony will respond?

Not really. They're already outperforming the X-T1 with the A7. Why do they need to chase Fuji?

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stevo23
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to miro3, 10 months ago

miro3 wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

miro3 wrote:

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7) and the successor of the A7r.

How do you think Sony will respond?

In what way?

The Nex-7 with 24Mp still trumps in IQ?

I guess it needs a hump then after all?

No hump!

Just:

- fast autofocus

- fast update of the EVF and LCD (the Fuji X-T1 has a display lag for the EVF and LCD of only 0.005 seconds vs. X-E2: 0.05s, and Olympus OM-D E-M1: 0.029s (not sure what these are for the Sony cameras)

Big deal. This starts to become wearisome. Fast autofocus is not important for 99% out there. A faster EVF would be nice, but I just don't care anymore. I used to use a SpeedGraphic and a Rollieflex. Does autofocus not seem like a light speed leap anyhow? I think most people would take better pictures without autofocus.

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parallaxproblem
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to miro3, 10 months ago

miro3 wrote:

martindesu wrote:

If the successor to the NEX-7 is to be announced within 1 month, there's no time to chance their plan, or "respond".

Well, rumor sites had the specs like 2 months ago.

And if Sony has informants in Fuji, they might have had the specs much earlier.

So, they have known the specs for a while now, and have no excuse really.

Yes, of course they know

This sudden rush of retro-bodied cameras with humps...  coincidence?

That is what is so absurd about the shills saying "you don't expect Sony to give their product strategy to the opposition do you?" when I said that Sony needed to communicate to their users in general terms what the future was for NEX users... the camera companies tell each other in general terms what they are planning!

I had a friend who worked in the 'competitive evaluation' dept of a major car company... they even used to share out their prototype cars so each could plan a 'response'!

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parallaxproblem
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to stevo23, 10 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

miro3 wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

miro3 wrote:

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7) and the successor of the A7r.

How do you think Sony will respond?

In what way?

The Nex-7 with 24Mp still trumps in IQ?

I guess it needs a hump then after all?

No hump!

Just:

- fast autofocus

- fast update of the EVF and LCD (the Fuji X-T1 has a display lag for the EVF and LCD of only 0.005 seconds vs. X-E2: 0.05s, and Olympus OM-D E-M1: 0.029s (not sure what these are for the Sony cameras)

Big deal. This starts to become wearisome. Fast autofocus is not important for 99% out there.

Woo hoo! I'm the one in a hundred who fast AF is important for!!!!

Hold on... or are you the one in a hundred who it isn't important for?

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miro3
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to stevo23, 10 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

miro3 wrote:

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7) and the successor of the A7r.

How do you think Sony will respond?

Not really. They're already outperforming the X-T1 with the A7.

but not in the response time when pressing the shutter, and not in the update speed for the EVF and LCD

Why do they need to chase Fuji?

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stevo23
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to parallaxproblem, 10 months ago

parallaxproblem wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

miro3 wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

miro3 wrote:

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7) and the successor of the A7r.

How do you think Sony will respond?

In what way?

The Nex-7 with 24Mp still trumps in IQ?

I guess it needs a hump then after all?

No hump!

Just:

- fast autofocus

- fast update of the EVF and LCD (the Fuji X-T1 has a display lag for the EVF and LCD of only 0.005 seconds vs. X-E2: 0.05s, and Olympus OM-D E-M1: 0.029s (not sure what these are for the Sony cameras)

Big deal. This starts to become wearisome. Fast autofocus is not important for 99% out there.

Woo hoo! I'm the one in a hundred who fast AF is important for!!!!

Hold on... or are you the one in a hundred who it isn't important for?

Ha ha!

I think I'm in the majority. My point being that during the "golden age of photography", we spent our years with split screen focusing and got great results. When autofocus came along, it really wasn't anything to scream about. Eventually, it got fast and silent.

But it's still only marginally reliable at achieving critical sharpness no matter how fast. You've got to fire off several shots to be sure you get one sharp one. This is good for sports and action work, but after that, we don't need it at all. Even so, somehow, we've decided to rely on it and we're being enticed to chuck our old systems over a millisecond difference in speed.

This constant posturing over a millisecond here or a micro-detent there is really very tiresome. It strikes me that the ability to make any significant changes in image quality is now almost zero. All we're seeing are the proverbial gilding of the pig's ear. This is not a sustainable model. Contraction is around the corner.

Wait, did I write that? I must be getting a cold or something. The Fuji is nice, but I'm not sure it's quite a rival to the A7 in the image making department. It's more of a rival to the Df.

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stevo23
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to miro3, 10 months ago

miro3 wrote:

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7) and the successor of the A7r.

How do you think Sony will respond?

Sony doesn't have to respond. They already make better images with more resolution.

The X-T1 is really aimed at the Df, so it's not really Sony's fight in the first place.

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parallaxproblem
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to stevo23, 10 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

miro3 wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

miro3 wrote:

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7) and the successor of the A7r.

How do you think Sony will respond?

In what way?

The Nex-7 with 24Mp still trumps in IQ?

I guess it needs a hump then after all?

No hump!

Just:

- fast autofocus

- fast update of the EVF and LCD (the Fuji X-T1 has a display lag for the EVF and LCD of only 0.005 seconds vs. X-E2: 0.05s, and Olympus OM-D E-M1: 0.029s (not sure what these are for the Sony cameras)

Big deal. This starts to become wearisome. Fast autofocus is not important for 99% out there.

Woo hoo! I'm the one in a hundred who fast AF is important for!!!!

Hold on... or are you the one in a hundred who it isn't important for?

Ha ha!

I think I'm in the majority. My point being that during the "golden age of photography", we spent our years with split screen focusing and got great results. When autofocus came along, it really wasn't anything to scream about. Eventually, it got fast and silent.

But it's still only marginally reliable at achieving critical sharpness no matter how fast. You've got to fire off several shots to be sure you get one sharp one. This is good for sports and action work, but after that, we don't need it at all. Even so, somehow, we've decided to rely on it and we're being enticed to chuck our old systems over a millisecond difference in speed.

This constant posturing over a millisecond here or a micro-detent there is really very tiresome. It strikes me that the ability to make any significant changes in image quality is now almost zero. All we're seeing are the proverbial gilding of the pig's ear. This is not a sustainable model. Contraction is around the corner.

Wait, did I write that? I must be getting a cold or something. The Fuji is nice, but I'm not sure it's quite a rival to the A7 in the image making department. It's more of a rival to the Df.

Of course it depends what you are shooting...  landscapes and posed portraits don't need fast AF, but spontaneous street scenes and anything involving children or animals does

I was down at the lake today taking pictures of seagulls... big fat lazy, slow seagulls, full of the bread I had been bribing them with to come and be photographed so they were even fatter and slower...  but my AF speed was still hopelessly lacking for the task and so I had to try to use MF.  Improvements would be very welcome to me, at least

I used split screen MF cameras (Minolta XGM, X500, X700) for years, and even had a split screen 'KatzEye' in my Pentax *istDS for 'old-times sake' (and because the AF of that camera was so awful that I needed to do MF in most cases) but then I never tried to take moving subjects because I knew I simply coudn't and so carefully posed each subject and made tripple sure that everything was properly focused before pressing the shutter (not least because of the cost of film and materials).  AF and 'cost free photos' with digital cameras have opened new opportunities for me and the faster the AF is the better the chance I have of taking something decent...

Just my thoughts.. 

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brudy
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to miro3, 10 months ago

Sony should just copy the X-T1 body for the next A7r. Gets rid of most of my issues.

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parallaxproblem
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to stevo23, 10 months ago

stevo23 wrote:

miro3 wrote:

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7) and the successor of the A7r.

How do you think Sony will respond?

Sony doesn't have to respond. They already make better images with more resolution.

The X-T1 is really aimed at the Df, so it's not really Sony's fight in the first place.

The problem is that if the NEX-7 replacement isn't what is being hoped for then a lot of current NEX-7 owners probably are going to jump ship to the X-T1 - some are already talking about it

People have been waiting a long time for the NEX-7 to be updated (there have been two NEX-5 upgrades in the interim), but at the same time may current NEX-7 owners like the format, build quality and layout of the camera and want to see this maintained in any new model

A DSLR shaped body, or a body made out of plastic will, rightly or wrongly, not be well received by many current NEX owners

For the moment the NEX-5T is still being sold but there is also an open question if there will be a place for a replacement model for that in the new Ax000 system between the $600 A5000 and the $900 (including kit lens) A7000 (guessing name)

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Clayton1985
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to miro3, 10 months ago

miro3 wrote:

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7) and the successor of the A7r.

How do you think Sony will respond?

I actually think the Fuji releasing the X-T1 with the 16mp sensor helped Sony tremendously.   The X-T1 looks like a nice camera and the lenses are excellent but many people that decided to go with a NEX 7 before are going to struggle to "settle" for the X-T1's sensor.   I use that term loosely since I know that some people will reply to tell me how little difference there is and how great the Fuji sensor is, etc.   But that doesn't really change my point that it can be hard to go backwards when you've experienced what the NEX 7 can do.    So, IMO, the NEX 6/7 successor only needs to improve AF, keep a 24mp (or more) sensor with improved high ISO performance, and add some of the expected features.  If Fuji had released the X-T1 with a 24mp sensor then Sony would be in for a much bigger fight IMO.   Of course Fuji will convert some NEX users but I don't think it will be as many as it could have been.

That being said, the EVF, weather sealing and tilt screen are great moves by Fuji and I'll be interested to see the X-Pro 2 or the X-T2 with a  new sensor.

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sean lancaster
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Re: a lot of pressure on Sony now ...
In reply to parallaxproblem, 10 months ago

parallaxproblem wrote:

stevo23 wrote:

miro3 wrote:

blue_skies wrote:

miro3 wrote:

to match and outperform the Fuji X-T1 with the A7000 ( successor of the NEX-7) and the successor of the A7r.

How do you think Sony will respond?

In what way?

The Nex-7 with 24Mp still trumps in IQ?

I guess it needs a hump then after all?

No hump!

Just:

- fast autofocus

- fast update of the EVF and LCD (the Fuji X-T1 has a display lag for the EVF and LCD of only 0.005 seconds vs. X-E2: 0.05s, and Olympus OM-D E-M1: 0.029s (not sure what these are for the Sony cameras)

Big deal. This starts to become wearisome. Fast autofocus is not important for 99% out there.

Woo hoo! I'm the one in a hundred who fast AF is important for!!!!

Hold on... or are you the one in a hundred who it isn't important for?

It is the only thing Sony can add to bring me back, so I am definitely in the 1% according to Steve's numbers. However, his numbers are completely erroneous and his wishful thinking, so there's that, too.

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