if you had a digital camera with flawless clarity /detail/dynamic range would you be happy ?

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Andy C Knight
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Re: if you had a digital camera with flawless clarity /detail/dynamic range would you be happy ?
In reply to TRIODEROB, 10 months ago

TRIODEROB wrote:

lets say they came out with a camera that had perfect clarity and dynamic range

and unlimited detail - would you be happy.

No, none of my upgrades were for 'image quality'. Sure it was nice to have, but IQ was never the reason I upgraded.

or let me reword this - you know how these above elements are getting better with time

lets fast forward this and imagine what could be produced 450 years from now.

is that what you want ?

Nothing wrong with the IQ getting better... But the truth is at this moment, I don't know what "new feature" will cause me to upgrade in the future.

Or in other words I am more than happy with my current cameras... until they invent something new, with some slick marketing that dupes me into upgrading

Regards

Andy

Edit: Why did I say 'No' above? - Because the endless fanboy mails would drive me nuts!

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Carsten Pauer 2
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Re: if you had a digital camera with flawless clarity /detail/dynamic range would you be happy ?
In reply to TRIODEROB, 10 months ago

lets fast forward this and imagine what could be produced 450 years from now.

Let Us Talk again in 450 Years...

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Kodachrome200
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i am happy now n/t
In reply to TRIODEROB, 10 months ago

TRIODEROB wrote:

lets say they came out with a camera that had perfect clarity and dynamic range

and unlimited detail - would you be happy.

or let me reword this - you know how these above elements are getting better with time

lets fast forward this and imagine what could be produced 450 years from now.

is that what you want ?

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unknown member
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I Use Sigma Cameras and I'm Happy
In reply to TRIODEROB, 10 months ago

TRIODEROB wrote:

lets say they came out with a camera that had perfect clarity and dynamic range

and unlimited detail - would you be happy.

or let me reword this - you know how these above elements are getting better with time

lets fast forward this and imagine what could be produced 450 years from now.

is that what you want ?

I use Sigma cameras and for a given size sensor I get by far the best clarity and detail of any cameras made. I'm happy. All they need to improve on is high ISO performance and they would be "perfect" enough for me.

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donaldsc
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Re: if you had a digital camera with flawless clarity /detail/dynamic range would you be happy ?
In reply to TRIODEROB, 10 months ago

TRIODEROB wrote:

donaldsc wrote:

I would add one thing - an option to prevent people from posting really stupid posts on WEB sites. Yours might take the prize - that is until a new prize winner came along.

Is there any point at all to your post?

-- hide signature --

Don

bite me

your not even smart enough to understand the point of the post

So I am stupid.  Please explain the point of the post to me.

-- hide signature --

Don

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areichow
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Re: if you had a digital camera with flawless clarity /detail/dynamic range would you be happy ?
In reply to donaldsc, 10 months ago

I would add one thing - an option to prevent people from posting really stupid posts on WEB sites.  Yours might take the prize - that is until a new prize winner came along.

Is there any point at all to your post?

-- hide signature --

Don

It's like a bitter old man convention in here... LOL.

Have fun, kids!

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donaldsc
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Re: if you had a digital camera with flawless clarity /detail/dynamic range would you be happy ?
In reply to TRIODEROB, 10 months ago

TRIODEROB wrote:

Super16mman wrote:

Draek wrote:

TRIODEROB wrote:

lets say they came out with a camera that had perfect clarity and dynamic range

and unlimited detail - would you be happy.

or let me reword this - you know how these above elements are getting better with time

lets fast forward this and imagine what could be produced 450 years from now.

is that what you want ?

As opposed to...?

Your comment reminds me of that joke about God making a boulder not even He could lift -- in that it superficially appears to make sense, right until you try to parse it beyond the most basics of grammar. Because surely no one with half a mind would ask whether one would be happy with the dynamic range of a camera with perfect dynamic range, or whether one would be content with the detail retention of a camera with "unlimited" detail, were such a thing allowed by the laws of Physics.

I think what he's saying is those three things don't make photography what it is. Photography is subject matter, composition, lighting, texture, color etc. and sometimes our pursuit of technological excellence makes us forget those things. I think you can already see people rebelling against high-end digital photography through the lo-fi digital and film movements, although high-end camera and camera technologies are and will always be extremely important.

Bingo-

I was looking at the newest high rez camera over the weekend - such as the D880E.

I was thinking about what a great camera it is - then it dawned on me that the photos I like the most are not the ultra clear pristine perfect ones but the moody atmospheric dream like images. so what would the 800E really get me ?

just like the most perfect lens that could ever be produced might not really give you the look you want

maybe ultra fast focus is the most important thing...................

You can take a perfectly exposed perfectly sharp picture and post process it to give you the dreamy effect that you want.  You can never take a blurry out-of-focus dreamy atmospheric picture and fix it up.

This is the same reason that some of us shoot raw and some of us shoot JPEG.  If you JPEG, there is a limitation to the modifications you can make to the photo.  If you shoot raw, you can dumb (if that is the appropriate word) it down to JPEG levels.  You can never smart a JPEG up a RAW level.

That should seem obvious.

By your logic, throw out your sharp lenses and sharp sensors and buy a 2 MP digital camera with a cheap plastic lens.  In fact, they make them.  They are called "toy cameras" and they cost maybe $10.

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Don

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I'm happy now, and I would be happy if...
In reply to TRIODEROB, 10 months ago

TRIODEROB wrote:

lets say they came out with a camera that had perfect clarity and dynamic range

and unlimited detail - would you be happy.

or let me reword this - you know how these above elements are getting better with time

lets fast forward this and imagine what could be produced 450 years from now.

is that what you want ?

I'm happy now, but of course I would be a little happier if I had such a wonderful camera! I would be happy as long as I would still have full creative control, including being able to go through the creative process my way! My way happens to include learning and dealing with the limitations of my gear, hands-on. I don't think I could be happy if all I had to do was speak the words out loud, "take a picture of that flower, frame it from there to there, use these parameters... now!" (450 years from now, be realistic! That's not a time for buttons, even today most things are touch screen, 450 years from now the word "touch" will probably have changed its meaning!)

Then again, anything from 450 years from now would most likely be able to synthesize anything, so I'd ask it to materialize me my favourite camera, assign its functions to the buttons and wheels, add extra menu entries for some futuristic extras, and with that camera in hand I'd get to work!

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RUcrAZ
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No if it was the size of a house and cost about the same
In reply to TRIODEROB, 10 months ago

NOT if it was too big and heavy and had low light sensitivity.

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Raymond Cho
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Re: if you had a digital camera with flawless clarity /detail/dynamic range would you be happy ?
In reply to JamesCraig, 10 months ago

JamesCraig wrote:

Of course, until the new improved model came out

-- hide signature --

"A photograph is like a cod, which produces a million eggs in order that one may reach maturity." George Bernard Shaw.

+1. Didn't people say in the past that full frame wasn't going to the way for Nikon.

Didn't people say that digital will never match film.

Didn't people say that the Canon 5D or Nikon D3 would be their last camera.

The fact is bodies get upgraded after 4yrs maybe even as little as a "s" or another "Mark" designation and that the almost $2,000 lenses get upgraded after 8yrs.

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johnierebel
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Re: if you had a digital camera with flawless clarity /detail/dynamic range would you be happy ?
In reply to TRIODEROB, 10 months ago

TRIODEROB wrote:

lets say they came out with a camera that had perfect clarity and dynamic range

and unlimited detail - would you be happy.

or let me reword this - you know how these above elements are getting better with time

lets fast forward this and imagine what could be produced 450 years from now.

is that what you want ?

Absolutely not, I would know at some point I would have wake up.

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digitallollygag
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Re: if you had a digital camera with flawless clarity /detail/dynamic range would you be happy ?
In reply to 69chevy, 10 months ago

69chevy wrote:

TRIODEROB wrote:

lets say they came out with a camera that had perfect clarity and dynamic range

and unlimited detail - would you be happy.

or let me reword this - you know how these above elements are getting better with time

lets fast forward this and imagine what could be produced 450 years from now.

is that what you want ?

The ones who would be happy, are already happy with what they have now.

The ones you see on here complaining daily would not.

A better camera will never cure laziness, inability or pessimism.

+1 !!

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tko
tko
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oh boy
In reply to TRIODEROB, 10 months ago

lets say they came out with a camera that had perfect clarity and dynamic range

OK, lets assume the impossible, and at the same time, assume you know what these words really mean.

and unlimited detail - would you be happy.

Anyone with any knowledge of physics knows unlimited detail is impossible - and if it was, it would take unlimited storage capacity.

or let me reword this - you know how these above elements are getting better with time

Actually, they are not. A large format view camera with film is still pretty darn good. A 1:1 Polaroid, life size, was about as good as it gets.

lets fast forward this and imagine what could be produced 450 years from now.

Why 450 years? How about 449 years? Is 450 a magic number? But lets not. Figuring in inflation, it would cost a qadzillion dollars.

is that what you want ?

To be transported forward 450 years in time? No.

So, leaving out all the verbiage and word play, your question is do I want a really high quality camera? Nah, that's way too simple, lets make it more fun. In 501.23 years, would I want a camera that can record everything simultaneously, and calculate all the known states of the universe, past, present, and future, as well as several alternate universes, so simple that you just think what you want and it goes and seeks it out, or failing that, just creates it on the spot? Sure, but then my friends are going to tell me I have a dinosaur that's going to be obsolete real soon.

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Super16mman
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Re: if you had a digital camera with flawless clarity /detail/dynamic range would you be happy ?
In reply to donaldsc, 10 months ago

donaldsc wrote:

TRIODEROB wrote:

Super16mman wrote:

Draek wrote:

TRIODEROB wrote:

lets say they came out with a camera that had perfect clarity and dynamic range

and unlimited detail - would you be happy.

or let me reword this - you know how these above elements are getting better with time

lets fast forward this and imagine what could be produced 450 years from now.

is that what you want ?

As opposed to...?

Your comment reminds me of that joke about God making a boulder not even He could lift -- in that it superficially appears to make sense, right until you try to parse it beyond the most basics of grammar. Because surely no one with half a mind would ask whether one would be happy with the dynamic range of a camera with perfect dynamic range, or whether one would be content with the detail retention of a camera with "unlimited" detail, were such a thing allowed by the laws of Physics.

I think what he's saying is those three things don't make photography what it is. Photography is subject matter, composition, lighting, texture, color etc. and sometimes our pursuit of technological excellence makes us forget those things. I think you can already see people rebelling against high-end digital photography through the lo-fi digital and film movements, although high-end camera and camera technologies are and will always be extremely important.

Bingo-

I was looking at the newest high rez camera over the weekend - such as the D880E.

I was thinking about what a great camera it is - then it dawned on me that the photos I like the most are not the ultra clear pristine perfect ones but the moody atmospheric dream like images. so what would the 800E really get me ?

just like the most perfect lens that could ever be produced might not really give you the look you want

maybe ultra fast focus is the most important thing...................

You can take a perfectly exposed perfectly sharp picture and post process it to give you the dreamy effect that you want. You can never take a blurry out-of-focus dreamy atmospheric picture and fix it up.

This is the same reason that some of us shoot raw and some of us shoot JPEG. If you JPEG, there is a limitation to the modifications you can make to the photo. If you shoot raw, you can dumb (if that is the appropriate word) it down to JPEG levels. You can never smart a JPEG up a RAW level.

That should seem obvious.

By your logic, throw out your sharp lenses and sharp sensors and buy a 2 MP digital camera with a cheap plastic lens. In fact, they make them. They are called "toy cameras" and they cost maybe $10.

-- hide signature --

Don

I see what you're saying, and I agree. It's always better to start with the most information possible. Toy cameras are awesome though. I took this with a $10 key chain camera.

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BertIverson
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I have one -- camera with flawless clarity /detail/dynamic range
In reply to TRIODEROB, 10 months ago

TRIODEROB wrote:

lets say they came out with a camera that had perfect clarity and dynamic range

and unlimited detail - would you be happy ...

In my mind, I already have such a camera. Way more pixels than I can see, more dynamic range than my display technology. Much better than the cameras I had in the 50's / 60's

Bert

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sportyaccordy
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Re: if you had a digital camera with flawless clarity /detail/dynamic range would you be happy ?
In reply to TRIODEROB, 10 months ago

I am a generally happy person, so probably. I would be happy with no camera.

Seriously though, my camera is 16MP APS-C. I don't print pictures and my highest res screen is 1080P. If there were anything I'd want more of from cameras, it's lower high ISO noise. If I could shoot clean at ISO6400 or even ISO12800 I'd be OK with shooting APS-C indefinitely. Such improvements would also greatly benefit point and shoots.

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donaldsc
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Re: if you had a digital camera with flawless clarity /detail/dynamic range would you be happy ?
In reply to Super16mman, 10 months ago

Super16mman wrote:

donaldsc wrote:

TRIODEROB wrote:

Super16mman wrote:

Draek wrote:

TRIODEROB wrote:

lets say they came out with a camera that had perfect clarity and dynamic range

and unlimited detail - would you be happy.

or let me reword this - you know how these above elements are getting better with time

lets fast forward this and imagine what could be produced 450 years from now.

is that what you want ?

As opposed to...?

Your comment reminds me of that joke about God making a boulder not even He could lift -- in that it superficially appears to make sense, right until you try to parse it beyond the most basics of grammar. Because surely no one with half a mind would ask whether one would be happy with the dynamic range of a camera with perfect dynamic range, or whether one would be content with the detail retention of a camera with "unlimited" detail, were such a thing allowed by the laws of Physics.

I think what he's saying is those three things don't make photography what it is. Photography is subject matter, composition, lighting, texture, color etc. and sometimes our pursuit of technological excellence makes us forget those things. I think you can already see people rebelling against high-end digital photography through the lo-fi digital and film movements, although high-end camera and camera technologies are and will always be extremely important.

Bingo-

I was looking at the newest high rez camera over the weekend - such as the D880E.

I was thinking about what a great camera it is - then it dawned on me that the photos I like the most are not the ultra clear pristine perfect ones but the moody atmospheric dream like images. so what would the 800E really get me ?

just like the most perfect lens that could ever be produced might not really give you the look you want

maybe ultra fast focus is the most important thing...................

You can take a perfectly exposed perfectly sharp picture and post process it to give you the dreamy effect that you want. You can never take a blurry out-of-focus dreamy atmospheric picture and fix it up.

This is the same reason that some of us shoot raw and some of us shoot JPEG. If you JPEG, there is a limitation to the modifications you can make to the photo. If you shoot raw, you can dumb (if that is the appropriate word) it down to JPEG levels. You can never smart a JPEG up a RAW level.

That should seem obvious.

By your logic, throw out your sharp lenses and sharp sensors and buy a 2 MP digital camera with a cheap plastic lens. In fact, they make them. They are called "toy cameras" and they cost maybe $10.

-- hide signature --

Don

I see what you're saying, and I agree. It's always better to start with the most information possible. Toy cameras are awesome though. I took this with a $10 key chain camera.

Just think how much dreamier, out of focus and with bad color they will be with the "advances" we can expect 200 years from now.

LOL!!

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Don

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Henry Falkner
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Yes, I am happy.
In reply to TRIODEROB, 10 months ago

Two weeks ago I came back from Nelson with videos and stills that are described as clear and pleasant to look at, by close acquaintances as well as DPReview posters.

The camera that made me partially happy lasted for two years in use, and I am keeping it as backup (Olympus SZ-30MR).

The camera that combines the good features of a string of digital cameras going back to 1998 is the Olympus SH-50 - it has a long zoom in a pocket size, better detail day or night, fewer artifacts, better IS particularly at full zoom, no zoom noise on video, and no features disabling each other.

Henry

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Avobanana
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Re: if you had a digital camera with flawless clarity /detail/dynamic range would you be happy ?
In reply to TRIODEROB, 10 months ago

What I really want is a floating mind control camera where I can basically take photos of any angle without the hassle of carrying it. That of course also needs to be coupled with a minimum resolution where I can zoom into the hair follicle of a subject about 1km away in a 16mm UWA shot.

Oh dynamic range should also be close to infinite where I can shoot into the sun and pull down the highlights to see those uneven bumps and wrinkles on the surface of the sun. Or when I shoot into the lens cap for a black frame I should be able to see the logo printed on the back of the lens cap. I mean we are really backward now that we can't do that.

Also about the zoom range...what about the Apollo's footprint on the moon?

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Draek
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Re: if you had a digital camera with flawless clarity /detail/dynamic range would you be happy ?
In reply to Super16mman, 10 months ago

Super16mman wrote:

I think what he's saying is those three things don't make photography what it is. Photography is subject matter, composition, lighting, texture, color etc. and sometimes our pursuit of technological excellence makes us forget those things. I think you can already see people rebelling against high-end digital photography through the lo-fi digital and film movements, although high-end camera and camera technologies are and will always be extremely important.

So...? we all know that a better camera does not make for better photographs, but it can still be called a better camera -- because much like photographs aren't judged by the gear used to capture it but by their own artistic value, cameras aren't judged by the value of the photographs taken with it but rather on factors which include DR, resolution and various others. And, the OP's situation was purely in the context of camera shopping -- at no point did he talk about the artistic merit of the photographs said camera would produce.

For an analogy, think of computers. Did you know that any kind of computation you could possibly do on a high-end MacBook Pro, you could do on a cheap Samsung smartphone and a stack of microSD cards(*)? yes, any, no exceptions whatsoever; it's in the definition of Universal Turing Machine, if you care. But, would you say buying the MacBook is unnecessary, then?

(*) Given infinite time and a trained, inmortal monkey cycling between the cards when prompted. Conditions which hint at the 'catch' in the 'equivalence'.

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