Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
bigpigbig
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Re: Always on and DR for example
In reply to PerL, 11 months ago

PerL wrote:

stimpy wrote:

PerL wrote:

bigpigbig wrote:

PerL wrote:

bigpigbig wrote:

Sure there will be naysayers.

But I really believe that the mirrorless camera will replace the DSLR (eventually).

First, the EVF will get better and better and better and better. Eventually, it will be like looking through the lens like an OVF only better. Is it there yet, no. But the X-T1 is one step closer.

.005 second lag. Surely, that looks live.

.77x view with 38 degree diagonal view.

Secondly, AF-C 8 fps predictive auto focus that works. (Well it sure appears to)

This is still one shooting demand that normally makes me grab the DSLR. I am hopeful the X-T1 really does take over this need.

So what is left...

Well, you tell me.

How long does the battery last if you leave the EVF in "always on" mode?

Good point. That will ALWAYS be an advantage for OVF.

And you have the DR issue.

That should improve with time, but is a restriction. Of course the "exposure" can be shifted in the EVF so although it can't be seen at once, it can be "slid" back and forth.

And lets see how well the AF-C works. I think this is the third or fourth time the term "the world fastest AF" is used with a new EVF based camera.

Agreed. I am optimistically hopeful. The samples Rico posted look pretty convincing.

Are you referring to these?

http://www.flickr.com/photos/25805910@N05/sets/72157640158298025/

I would want to see something more challenging, more like these samples.

Any camera could get those.

Nope. These from test series with AF-C on Nikon D300s and Canon 7D shot with 70-200 2.8 lenses at 7 vs 8 fps.

It's more about the rate of keepers and the reliability and ease in getting the shots. Random photos of something in motion really doesn't mean jack.

Yes, but these are not random, they are from series with high hit rates. For instance the motocross bikes are from a 10-15 image sequence.

There is a reason you don't see mirrorless cameras at the olympics, or soccer games etc

Yes, I fully agree. That is why I am skeptical about the new Fujis capability until I have seen many more samples.

I knew what you meant and I have my fingers crossed. In the future (maybe next week, maybe 5 years from now) it will be possible. Even 60fps all in focus! It is the future. Look at cameras 14 years ago. The D1 was 2.7 mp sensor with 4.5 frames per second continuous shooting

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Donald B
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to bigpigbig, 11 months ago

pro camera are you kidding ? it doesn't have direct af control or stream live view to a hd screen for studio work ?
 my 4 year old pentax k7 is better equipped.

cheers don

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bigpigbig
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to Donald B, 11 months ago

Donald B wrote:

pro camera are you kidding ? it doesn't have direct af control or stream live view to a hd screen for studio work ?
my 4 year old pentax k7 is better equipped.

cheers don

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Pentax K7, Panasonic fz150, Olympus XZ1, my main toys.

Who said anything about a pro camera?

Lack of livestream and fly-by-wire are not features of mirrorless cameras.

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biza43
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to bigpigbig, 11 months ago

Ok, I´ll bite:

1. For the "enthusiast" market, indeed APSC and micro 4/3 mirrorless cameras have made great progress. There are now very good systems that are more than enough for the average needs of photographers.

2. Even FF DSLRs are being challenged by Sony's FF mirrorless cameras. These are more than suitable for landscape photographers, for example.

3. Fujifilm is being proactive in putting together their X system, now covering a large number of camera "templates" - from rangefinder like, to SLR like. Of course they also have very good lenses.

4. However, the DSLR systems (and I emphasize "systems) are still more adequate for a lot of shooting situations. For example, nothing beats the multi-AF point tracking abilities of a 1DX or a D4. As a system, with a full complement of lenses and flashes and accessories, the DSLRs are much more mature.

5. As for the OVF vs. EVF debate, to each its own preference, of course. EVFs have come a long way, but there are situations where watching the scene unfolding in a TV screen is not very conducive to one's engagement with the scene.

Personally, I enjoy using my X cameras and lenses, as much as I enjoy using my Canon 6D with 50mm lens. Both allow me to keep my shooting simple and efficient, but they are different tools for different strides. It says a lot that mirrorless camera makers are resorting to a retro, or vintage, SLR template in the hopes of attracting more buyers to their camp.

Finally, mirrorless has a long way to go before even threatening DSLR sales...

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ellioto1
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HDR the easiest fix
In reply to PerL, 11 months ago

I have the d800 and d3.  The thing that I always miss and is the easiest fix in the world, is To have a more robust exposure bracketing for HDR....Being able to bracket one stop on each side is worthless.  They should have at least 3+ and -3, preferably 4 and 4.  They would also be king of the hill, if you can do -2, 0, +2 a five stop bracket with three shots.

Right now the d800 and the magnificent 14-24 is the best hdr combination.  With the fuji upcoming 10-24 lens and even the 14mm, I wouldn't have to bring the d800 with.

IMHO, this is many, many multiples more important an issue, easy to fix in firmware and would have the #1 biggest incentive for HDR guys to move over.  Fuji I hope you are listening.

Thanks,

elliot

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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to bigpigbig, 11 months ago

bigpigbig wrote:

stimpy wrote:

Ontario Gone wrote:

stimpy wrote:

Mirroless can't compete with the focus speed of DSLRs yet, I believe one day they will, but it doesn't look like happening any time soon,

How can you say this? A matter of days ago, nobody could have predicted the new Fuji with this kind of EVF, other than Fuji connected people of course. It just hit us, bam!! How do you know somebody else won't do the same with on sensor PDAF? You have no idea what's in the works, and if you judge the future by what was made yesterday, you will miss the boat. You seem to be pessimistic and simply hoping for PDAF to take it's time. In reality, you have no idea.

I'll say it again. Mirrorless cannot compete with the focus speed (or tracking) of DSLRS. What happens in 2, 5, 25 years time is totally irrelevant. Right now, this they cannot compete. So people who want that will keep buying DSLRs rather than mirroless systems. Pretty simple.

Mirrorless is getting closer, but if size and bulk isn't a factor, a DSLR is a much better tool for pretty much everything and I can't see that changing any time soon.

Im sure you can't see it, but i guess Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus, Kodak, Sony, and Samsung do. Not to mention Canon

Well they certainly want it to, but looking at sales figure. Nope, not yet, and not for a loooong time (if ever)

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"Run to the light, Carol Anne. Run as fast as you can!"

I dumped my DSLR 3 years ago for a mirrorless system and couldn't be happier; but to think the best mirrorless competes with the best DSLRs is absurd. I just don't get why people even bother.

Is this what "fanboy" means?

Stimpy,

This thread is about the future.

The is NO DOUBT about the present. That is why I have a D4 and a D800e.

BUT, to be honest, the sensors in DSLRs have gotten so good that there is really no reason to upgrade. The 36mp of the D800e is as much resolution as I will EVER need. I can print as big as I want with it. The low light and durability of the D3s was the pinnacle. The D4 added 4mp but not much else.

The APS-C mirrorless cameras are not even close. But even you agree, they will be. Slowly, but surely, the gap between DSLR and mirrorless is closing. That is a certainty. There will eventually be an APS-C sensor that is as good as the D4 or D800e is today. (In my opinion, as good as is EVER needed).

Computers reached this point about 5 years ago. Unless one is doing very specialized tasks, they are more than most people need.

There are features that WILL catch up.

I think there are others that may NEVER catch up.

This thread was supposed to be about identifying those features.

Some have done so already.

Do you have some to add?

You asked what's left. I (and pretty much everyone else) is saying, decent focus, IQ and OVF. It's a complete package with zero compromises except size.

You make the assumption that mirrorless technology will continue to improve but mirrored cameras will not. What's to say Nikon or Canon cannot improve at the same rate, this keeping the gap significant for the next 10 years?

As it is now, the best mirrorless is years behind the best DSLR; and you've offered nothing to suggest this will change any time soon.

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maljo@inreach.com
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600 mm f4
In reply to bigpigbig, 11 months ago

full frame macro

intelligent multiflash

how well does that AF tracking work?

I have to agree with you; this seems like an excellent camera and the future does not include mirrors.

maljo

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Graham Hill
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Re: HDR the easiest fix
In reply to ellioto1, 11 months ago

ellioto1 wrote:

I have the d800 and d3. The thing that I always miss and is the easiest fix in the world, is To have a more robust exposure bracketing for HDR....Being able to bracket one stop on each side is worthless.

I laugh every time I read this complaint.  Yes, I agree with you completely and said so very early on when the X100 was just a few days old.  Back then I was savagely attacked by the Fuji "faithful" who said more exposure bracketing was just a substitute for my "poor" technique.

I had just bought an HDR program and wanted to use it but found that the limited exposure bracketing made the results less than satisfactory.

Perhaps if such complaints were heard in the spirit of improvement, we'd have such capabilities now.

They should have at least 3+ and -3, preferably 4 and 4. They would also be king of the hill, if you can do -2, 0, +2 a five stop bracket with three shots.

Right now the d800 and the magnificent 14-24 is the best hdr combination. With the fuji upcoming 10-24 lens and even the 14mm, I wouldn't have to bring the d800 with.

IMHO, this is many, many multiples more important an issue, easy to fix in firmware and would have the #1 biggest incentive for HDR guys to move over. Fuji I hope you are listening.

The biggest obstacle to improvement of the X cameras are the people who shout down the others who ask for improvements.

Thanks,

elliot

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bigpigbig
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Re: 600 mm f4
In reply to maljo@inreach.com, 11 months ago

maljo@inreach.com wrote:

full frame macro

Would be nice. But with adapters there are many good candidates. You lose AF but do you really need AF for macro?

intelligent multiflash

This is a big one. I think it is a long way off. Fuji surely doesn't have the resources to create anything near Nikon CLS system.

how well does that AF tracking work?

We'll see. Fingers crossed, it is very good. It would be a big breakthrough, that is for sure.

I have to agree with you; this seems like an excellent camera and the future does not include mirrors.

maljo

Thanks for your input.

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bigpigbig
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to stimpy, 11 months ago

stimpy wrote:

bigpigbig wrote:

stimpy wrote:

Ontario Gone wrote:

stimpy wrote:

Mirroless can't compete with the focus speed of DSLRs yet, I believe one day they will, but it doesn't look like happening any time soon,

How can you say this? A matter of days ago, nobody could have predicted the new Fuji with this kind of EVF, other than Fuji connected people of course. It just hit us, bam!! How do you know somebody else won't do the same with on sensor PDAF? You have no idea what's in the works, and if you judge the future by what was made yesterday, you will miss the boat. You seem to be pessimistic and simply hoping for PDAF to take it's time. In reality, you have no idea.

I'll say it again. Mirrorless cannot compete with the focus speed (or tracking) of DSLRS. What happens in 2, 5, 25 years time is totally irrelevant. Right now, this they cannot compete. So people who want that will keep buying DSLRs rather than mirroless systems. Pretty simple.

Mirrorless is getting closer, but if size and bulk isn't a factor, a DSLR is a much better tool for pretty much everything and I can't see that changing any time soon.

Im sure you can't see it, but i guess Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus, Kodak, Sony, and Samsung do. Not to mention Canon

Well they certainly want it to, but looking at sales figure. Nope, not yet, and not for a loooong time (if ever)

-- hide signature --

"Run to the light, Carol Anne. Run as fast as you can!"

I dumped my DSLR 3 years ago for a mirrorless system and couldn't be happier; but to think the best mirrorless competes with the best DSLRs is absurd. I just don't get why people even bother.

Is this what "fanboy" means?

Stimpy,

This thread is about the future.

The is NO DOUBT about the present. That is why I have a D4 and a D800e.

BUT, to be honest, the sensors in DSLRs have gotten so good that there is really no reason to upgrade. The 36mp of the D800e is as much resolution as I will EVER need. I can print as big as I want with it. The low light and durability of the D3s was the pinnacle. The D4 added 4mp but not much else.

The APS-C mirrorless cameras are not even close. But even you agree, they will be. Slowly, but surely, the gap between DSLR and mirrorless is closing. That is a certainty. There will eventually be an APS-C sensor that is as good as the D4 or D800e is today. (In my opinion, as good as is EVER needed).

Computers reached this point about 5 years ago. Unless one is doing very specialized tasks, they are more than most people need.

There are features that WILL catch up.

I think there are others that may NEVER catch up.

This thread was supposed to be about identifying those features.

Some have done so already.

Do you have some to add?

You asked what's left. I (and pretty much everyone else) is saying,

decent focus

Mirrorless camera AF (XE-1) is very very accurate. Certainly, it meets the standard "decent" already. Maybe not spectacular (ala D4 D800e) but the X-T1 looks promising in this regard, no?

, IQ

As far as APS-C sensors go, it is as good as any. Even compared to FF, it is as good as the last gen FF. (5D MKII)

and OVF.

OVF has advantages but so does EVF. The advantages of the OVF are getting smaller as resolution, frame rate and size of the EVFs improve.

It's a complete package with zero compromises except size.

At present, I totally agree. This is why I think DSLRs have reached sort of a plateau. Mirrorless cameras are changing FAST. I fully expect Nikon to release a FF mirrorless camera within the next 3 years. I'd put a large bet on it.

You make the assumption that mirrorless technology will continue to improve but mirrored cameras will not. What's to say Nikon or Canon cannot improve at the same rate, this keeping the gap significant for the next 10 years?

No doubt, they will continue to improve. But in terms of IQ, they are "there". In terms of AF, they are "there". Isn't 10 fps about all anyone would need / want? Isn't 36mp all (more than) anyone would need / want?

PLEASE don't take this personally, I am open to your ideas. REALLY. What do you think?

As it is now, the best mirrorless is years behind the best DSLR;

Many years. Yes.

and you've offered nothing to suggest this will change any time soon.

I think the X-T1 shooting 8fps, 56fps refresh rate in the near dark, .77x viewfinder are three steps towards closing the gap. What has Canon done in the last 7 years with DSLR? How much better is the 5D MKIII than the 5D MKII? Compare that to the XE-1 vs the X-T1 improvements.

No? Why not?

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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to bigpigbig, 11 months ago

bigpigbig wrote:

stimpy wrote:

bigpigbig wrote:

stimpy wrote:

Ontario Gone wrote:

stimpy wrote:

Mirroless can't compete with the focus speed of DSLRs yet, I believe one day they will, but it doesn't look like happening any time soon,

How can you say this? A matter of days ago, nobody could have predicted the new Fuji with this kind of EVF, other than Fuji connected people of course. It just hit us, bam!! How do you know somebody else won't do the same with on sensor PDAF? You have no idea what's in the works, and if you judge the future by what was made yesterday, you will miss the boat. You seem to be pessimistic and simply hoping for PDAF to take it's time. In reality, you have no idea.

I'll say it again. Mirrorless cannot compete with the focus speed (or tracking) of DSLRS. What happens in 2, 5, 25 years time is totally irrelevant. Right now, this they cannot compete. So people who want that will keep buying DSLRs rather than mirroless systems. Pretty simple.

Mirrorless is getting closer, but if size and bulk isn't a factor, a DSLR is a much better tool for pretty much everything and I can't see that changing any time soon.

Im sure you can't see it, but i guess Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus, Kodak, Sony, and Samsung do. Not to mention Canon

Well they certainly want it to, but looking at sales figure. Nope, not yet, and not for a loooong time (if ever)

-- hide signature --

"Run to the light, Carol Anne. Run as fast as you can!"

I dumped my DSLR 3 years ago for a mirrorless system and couldn't be happier; but to think the best mirrorless competes with the best DSLRs is absurd. I just don't get why people even bother.

Is this what "fanboy" means?

Stimpy,

This thread is about the future.

The is NO DOUBT about the present. That is why I have a D4 and a D800e.

BUT, to be honest, the sensors in DSLRs have gotten so good that there is really no reason to upgrade. The 36mp of the D800e is as much resolution as I will EVER need. I can print as big as I want with it. The low light and durability of the D3s was the pinnacle. The D4 added 4mp but not much else.

The APS-C mirrorless cameras are not even close. But even you agree, they will be. Slowly, but surely, the gap between DSLR and mirrorless is closing. That is a certainty. There will eventually be an APS-C sensor that is as good as the D4 or D800e is today. (In my opinion, as good as is EVER needed).

Computers reached this point about 5 years ago. Unless one is doing very specialized tasks, they are more than most people need.

There are features that WILL catch up.

I think there are others that may NEVER catch up.

This thread was supposed to be about identifying those features.

Some have done so already.

Do you have some to add?

You asked what's left. I (and pretty much everyone else) is saying,

decent focus

Mirrorless camera AF (XE-1) is very very accurate. Certainly, it meets the standard "decent" already. Maybe not spectacular (ala D4 D800e) but the X-T1 looks promising in this regard, no?

No, it's way short of a pro DSLR for focus speed and tracking. I can't see the X-T1 being much different from the X-E2 which really isn't that different from the X-E1.

, IQ

As far as APS-C sensors go, it is as good as any. Even compared to FF, it is as good as the last gen FF. (5D MKII)

I said the best mirrorless doesn't match the best DSLR. Simple fact. Pointless comparrison.

But not current gen.

and OVF.

OVF has advantages but so does EVF. The advantages of the OVF are getting smaller as resolution, frame rate and size of the EVFs improve.

It's a complete package with zero compromises except size.

At present, I totally agree. This is why I think DSLRs have reached sort of a plateau. Mirrorless cameras are changing FAST. I fully expect Nikon to release a FF mirrorless camera within the next 3 years. I'd put a large bet on it.

You make the assumption that mirrorless technology will continue to improve but mirrored cameras will not. What's to say Nikon or Canon cannot improve at the same rate, this keeping the gap significant for the next 10 years?

No doubt, they will continue to improve. But in terms of IQ, they are "there". In terms of AF, they are "there". Isn't 10 fps about all anyone would need / want? Isn't 36mp all (more than) anyone would need / want?

PLEASE don't take this personally, I am open to your ideas. REALLY. What do you think?

I really believe an average m43 sensor is "enough for everybody" and would take 99% of the photos people post in this forum demonstrating how good Fuji X-Trans is.

Fact is people like to consume and purchase goods; pixel peeping, low noise at high ISO (or cooking raws!) are all things that people think justifies a new purchase, manufacturers know this and exploit it.

The "Good enough" standard was met years ago.

It's nice to know your camera is better at pixel level, and that gives us a reason to buy, but it seldom matters and is seldom noticeable.

As it is now, the best mirrorless is years behind the best DSLR;

Many years. Yes.

and you've offered nothing to suggest this will change any time soon.

I think the X-T1 shooting 8fps, 56fps refresh rate in the near dark, .77x viewfinder are three steps towards closing the gap. What has Canon done in the last 7 years with DSLR? How much better is the 5D MKIII than the 5D MKII? Compare that to the XE-1 vs the X-T1 improvements.

No? Why not?

I don't get why you compare last gen with current gen.

I'd reserve judgement on the X-T1; there is always a shed load of hyperbole around every Fuji release, such as "worlds fasted AF" followed by disclaimer after disclaimer, "matches FF" which isn't true etc etc.

The only reviews I have read about the AF are by people who work closely with Fuji, and who tend to defend every niggle and issue with the cameras, so I do take them with a pinch of salt.

But that isn't to say I am not going to pre-order it, and try it for myself

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Canadianguy
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to bigpigbig, 11 months ago

What's left is the battery - the better you make the EVF - the more power its going to drain from the battery.

So if you want a small mirrorless body with a small battery - be prepared to carry spares around.

I think Fuji knows this - hence the battery grip option on the X-T1.

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bigpigbig
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to stimpy, 11 months ago

stimpy wrote:


I don't get why you compare last gen with current gen.

I was just trying to show that the gap is closing. The mirrorless offerings (A7r) are heaps better than they were three years ago. DSLRs have plateaued a bit.

I'd reserve judgement on the X-T1; there is always a shed load of hyperbole around every Fuji release, such as "worlds fasted AF" followed by disclaimer after disclaimer, "matches FF" which isn't true etc etc.

True. I have my fingers crossed. If it is very close (AF-wise) to the XE-2, I'll probably pick up another XE-1 body for dirt cheap.

The only reviews I have read about the AF are by people who work closely with Fuji, and who tend to defend every niggle and issue with the cameras, so I do take them with a pinch of salt.

True. True.

But that isn't to say I am not going to pre-order it, and try it for myself

You snake.

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justin_time
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to love_them_all, 11 months ago

love_them_all wrote:

Somebody needs to test the XT1 in low light focusing and also see what the real EVF lag is. And also the noise appearing in the EVF.

It's the low light lag/noise that makes EVF inferior.

With X-E2 there is more lag at low light and I'll wait and see whether X-T1 is improved or not.  However, as far as noise goes I prefer mirrorless.  For sure an optical system has zero noise.  But then in real low light you don't see much of anything because its too dark - so an EVF amplifying the scene a little is fine by me, even if it does have a little noise.

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bigpigbig
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to Canadianguy, 11 months ago

Canadianguy wrote:

What's left is the battery - the better you make the EVF - the more power its going to drain from the battery.

It is already poor. I carry 5. But they are light and small.

So if you want a small mirrorless body with a small battery - be prepared to carry spares around.

I think Fuji knows this - hence the battery grip option on the X-T1.

Well, that is a bit cynical. The grip will be nicer than just for an extra battery.

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bigpigbig
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to justin_time, 11 months ago

justin_time wrote:

love_them_all wrote:

Somebody needs to test the XT1 in low light focusing and also see what the real EVF lag is. And also the noise appearing in the EVF.

It's the low light lag/noise that makes EVF inferior.

With X-E2 there is more lag at low light and I'll wait and see whether X-T1 is improved or not.

The specs say the XE-2 drops to 30 fps while the X-T1 maintains 54 FPS even in low light. We'll see.

However, as far as noise goes I prefer mirrorless. For sure an optical system has zero noise. But then in real low light you don't see much of anything because its too dark - so an EVF amplifying the scene a little is fine by me, even if it does have a little noise.

One big advantage of an EVF. Makes manual focus in low light possible where an OVF would be impossible.

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justin_time
Contributing MemberPosts: 664Gear list
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Re: HDR the easiest fix
In reply to ellioto1, 11 months ago

ellioto1 wrote:

I have the d800 and d3.  The thing that I always miss and is the easiest fix in the world, is To have a more robust exposure bracketing for HDR....Being able to bracket one stop on each side is worthless.  They should have at least 3+ and -3, preferably 4 and 4.  They would also be king of the hill, if you can do -2, 0, +2 a five stop bracket with three shots.

Right now the d800 and the magnificent 14-24 is the best hdr combination.  With the fuji upcoming 10-24 lens and even the 14mm, I wouldn't have to bring the d800 with.

IMHO, this is many, many multiples more important an issue, easy to fix in firmware and would have the #1 biggest incentive for HDR guys to move over.  Fuji I hope you are listening.

Thanks,

elliot

I vote too for an improvement to the bracket/HDR function. For me the EV step needs to be increased to 2EV or even 3. and there should be no issue allowing 5 or 9 shot bracket as well.
But at least we know Fuji do listen and improve products.
But the D800 is interesting in this respect as it only allows 1EV steps, which in my view is a little limited for a 3 shot HDR.

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Tomiki
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Big battery for 600+ shots, double SD card, organic matrix
In reply to bigpigbig, 11 months ago

Battery like D7100 - 950 shots,

Double SD card slot

New organic matrix - 24 with trans-x quality.

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Pritzl
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to bigpigbig, 11 months ago

bigpigbig wrote:

So what is left...

Well, you tell me.

Until recently, I lustily eyed the X-series cameras as a light-weight yet capable alternative to my DSLR rather than a replacement. The X-T1 changes that in terms of the body at least. It looks like it comes close enough to DSLR performance in IQ/VF/AF performance for my purposes while offering the advantages of smaller size, weight and, in my opinion, one of the best thought out control layouts I've seen in any camera.

So what's left?

  1. Battery life is still a problem. I am not a pro shooter but even I can't see myself using an EVF camera without 2 or more spare batteries. So, while solvable, it is annoying to have to buy/carry the extra batteries. In contrast, a single extra battery for my DSLR and I can be shooting for days on end.
  2. The extensive catalogue of lenses, flashes and other peripherals is, lamentably, still a differentiator favouring DSLR's.
  3. Feature-list, especially video, is still sparse on the X-system compared to recent DSLRs. Not a big deal for me personally, but it still is a differentiator.

If these 3 are addressed, I really can't see myself keeping my DSLR; and I actually like my 70D.

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Dennis
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Two kinds of mirrorless
In reply to bigpigbig, 11 months ago

bigpigbig wrote:

But I really believe that the mirrorless camera will replace the DSLR (eventually).

So the one thing that never seems to get discussed in the whole DSLRs-are-going-the-way-of-the-dinosaur/no-they're-not discussions is whether the mirrorless implies reduced registration distance. And when is a DSLR not a DSLR ?

Nikon and Canon have each sold close to 100 million lenses. Some old, sure, but there are an awful lot of Nikon & Canon users out there. Sony has already gone (nearly) mirrorless with its SLR-mount system (the SLTs). PDAF-on-sensor would allow them to ditch the interim SLT technology and go all mirrorless. Nikon and Canon could easily follow, even if only for a couple of models in their lineup. They could easily offer a system that gives consumers a choice of a couple mirrorless bodies and SLR bodies. But even if they did go all mirrorless (even if the EVF was satisfactory to everyone, the AF was satisfactory to everyone, and battery life was no longer an issue for everyone) ... is that what you mean when you say mirrorless will replace the DSLR ?

I think it's a far more likely scenario than the DSLR being replaced by reduced registration distance systems ... unless Nikon and Canon both go the Sony/Olympus route and develop FF and APS-C mirrorless designed to work seamlessly with old lenses via adapters.

As I mentioned, there are tens of millions of lenses out there in use by people who have no desire to replace them. And SLR systems have dozens and dozens of lenses that manufacturers have no incentive to abandon and replace. Think about the investment Nikon and Canon have recently put into some of their high end glass, from super teles to the 58/1.4. Why would they want to stop making them to guide people to a new system, when it basically doubles the investment on their part ? Sure, they need to avoid losing market share to the upstarts, but that doesn't mean throwing away an old system and restarting from far behind.

Back to the cameras, aside from reliable, fast AF tracking and EVF quality, you have battery life and "night vision" issues (where the EVF clobbers your ability to see in the dark) ... issues to some. Then you have the need for bigger bodies with substantial hand grips, and vertical grips that support extra batteries and big flash units. All of which suggests to me that there's a sizable market out there for larger bodies, so that even if photographers see benefits in mirrorless technology, they'll be more than thrilled to own it in larger cameras that work with their existing Nikon & Canon lenses and accessories.

Then you have interesting options that could be available to DSLR manufacturers. We're talking theoreticals here ... the day that PDAF-on-sensor and EVFs are satisfactory to all photographers. So how about a DSLR that provides LV in mirror up mode and offers interchangeable VFs, like old film SLRs did ... one optical and one electronic. The electronic one might even be upgradeable with higher res models.

So in summary, I see little chance of existing SLR mount systems going away, and so long as those systems continue to exist, no reason for the DSLR itself to entirely go away, even if part or most of a manufacturers lineup goes mirrorless. Canon and Nikon might offer 1 or 2 DSLRs and a few mirrorless models. Those might be native SLR mount bodies or reduced registration bodies with adapters. There are really lots of options here and no reason for any technology (other than Sony's SLT !) to go away.

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