Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
bigpigbig
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Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
11 months ago

Sure there will be naysayers.

But I really believe that the mirrorless camera will replace the DSLR (eventually).

First, the EVF will get better and better and better and better. Eventually, it will be like looking through the lens like an OVF only better. Is it there yet, no. But the X-T1 is one step closer.

.005 second lag. Surely, that looks live.

.77x view with 38 degree diagonal view.

Secondly, AF-C 8 fps predictive auto focus that works. (Well it sure appears to)

This is still one shooting demand that normally makes me grab the DSLR. I am hopeful the X-T1 really does take over this need.

So what is left...

Well, you tell me.

Can we please not mention FF or larger sensor. I'd really like to know what is left as an advantage for DSLR?

Also, can we please try hard to keep this civil?

Maybe even refrain from judging others opinion and just state our own.

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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to bigpigbig, 11 months ago

bigpigbig wrote:

Sure there will be naysayers.

But I really believe that the mirrorless camera will replace the DSLR (eventually).

First, the EVF will get better and better and better and better. Eventually, it will be like looking through the lens like an OVF only better. Is it there yet, no. But the X-T1 is one step closer.

.005 second lag. Surely, that looks live.

.77x view with 38 degree diagonal view.

Secondly, AF-C 8 fps predictive auto focus that works. (Well it sure appears to)

This is still one shooting demand that normally makes me grab the DSLR. I am hopeful the X-T1 really does take over this need.

So what is left...

Well, you tell me.

Can we please not mention FF or larger sensor. I'd really like to know what is left as an advantage for DSLR?

Also, can we please try hard to keep this civil?

Maybe even refrain from judging others opinion and just state our own.

Mirroless can't compete with the focus speed of DSLRs yet, I believe one day they will, but it doesn't look like happening any time soon, so DSLRs are the better choice for most.

Features is another, the X-T1 doesn't look to have improved on the X-Series' poor video specs. This makes Canon and Nikon DSLRs a much better choice again.

And FF is another advantage, I acknowledge you don't want to talk about that, but it's a huge advantage so you can't just gloss over it.

Mirrorless is getting closer, but if size and bulk isn't a factor, a DSLR is a much better tool for pretty much everything and I can't see that changing any time soon.

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myphotographic
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to bigpigbig, 11 months ago

Continuous Af that surpasses a D4/1DX, 14fps, a full range of supertelephotos (300mm f2.8, 400mm f2.8, 400mm f5.6, 500mm f4, 600mm f4, 800mm f5.6 and a 200-400 f4), some teleconverters and a  range of tilt-shift lenses.

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Graham Hill
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to bigpigbig, 11 months ago

Well that didnt take long.  In order for mirrorless people to be happy, SLR's have to die.

Prediction:  Nikon alone sells millions of SLR's in 2014.

2nd Prediction: Canon alone sells millions of SLR's in 2014.

Final Prediction: Fujifilm doesnt sell even half a million X-T1's in 2014.

I'll believe that mirrorless is taking over when just ONE of the makers of these cameras can turn a profit.  Just one.

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bigpigbig
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to Graham Hill, 11 months ago

Graham Hill wrote:

Well that didnt take long. In order for mirrorless people to be happy, SLR's have to die.

Prediction: Nikon alone sells millions of SLR's in 2014.

2nd Prediction: Canon alone sells millions of SLR's in 2014.

Final Prediction: Fujifilm doesnt sell even half a million X-T1's in 2014.

I'll believe that mirrorless is taking over when just ONE of the makers of these cameras can turn a profit. Just one.

So what is left...

Well, you tell me.

And I know it is really hard for you not to be confrontational, feel threatened, etc. but please, for this thread, try.

Others who have replied have made a great start.

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bigpigbig
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to Graham Hill, 11 months ago

And to be clear, I think the death of the flapping mirror is still in the distant future.

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justin_time
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to bigpigbig, 11 months ago

I have my X-T1 on pre-order already.  I'll wait and see whether AF hype is true.  I would not expect AF to be as good as the best DSLRs yet, but hope its good enough for my purposes - which is the odd bit of wildlife but no sports.  Anyway, with 8fps pre focusing on fixed spot and releasing shutter at right time as with MF camera will work.
But recent outing with D800 did highlight one advantage of mirrorless. D800 AF locked on to leaves in front of crow I was trying to photograph, so I manually focused.  But given my bad eyesight and non MF optimised focus screen they did not come out well.  I was really wishing for focus peaking & a zoom button!
As to whether I sell D800 or not that will be down to lenses. If the superzoom on the lens road map is xx-400mm then the Nikon will be sold. If only 300mm then IMO thats not long enough for me.

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Graham Hill
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to bigpigbig, 11 months ago

bigpigbig wrote:

Graham Hill wrote:

Well that didnt take long. In order for mirrorless people to be happy, SLR's have to die.

Prediction: Nikon alone sells millions of SLR's in 2014.

2nd Prediction: Canon alone sells millions of SLR's in 2014.

Final Prediction: Fujifilm doesnt sell even half a million X-T1's in 2014.

I'll believe that mirrorless is taking over when just ONE of the makers of these cameras can turn a profit. Just one.

So what is left...

Well, you tell me.

And I know it is really hard for you not to be confrontational, feel threatened, etc. but please, for this thread, try.

I'm not threatened in the slightest.  I have no problems with SLR's.  I dont count down their death. I'm not fanatical about watching SLR's die.  I'm a mirrorless/film shooter and happy to be so.  I see no need to conduct a deathwatch.  I'm not threatened by SLR's the way others are.

Others who have replied have made a great start.

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Ontario Gone
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to stimpy, 11 months ago

stimpy wrote:

Mirroless can't compete with the focus speed of DSLRs yet, I believe one day they will, but it doesn't look like happening any time soon,

How can you say this? A matter of days ago, nobody could have predicted the new Fuji with this kind of EVF, other than Fuji connected people of course. It just hit us, bam!! How do you know somebody else won't do the same with on sensor PDAF? You have no idea what's in the works, and if you judge the future by what was made yesterday, you will miss the boat. You seem to be pessimistic and simply hoping for PDAF to take it's time. In reality, you have no idea.

And FF is another advantage, I acknowledge you don't want to talk about that, but it's a huge advantage so you can't just gloss over it.

Im sure this new standard will spread across the board, and in time things get cheaper. Expect Sony to add this kind of EVF speed to FF mirrorless, and MFT to add it to theirs. Soon there will be no "advantages" to speak of when holding up a DSLR.

Mirrorless is getting closer, but if size and bulk isn't a factor, a DSLR is a much better tool for pretty much everything and I can't see that changing any time soon.

Im sure you can't see it, but i guess Fuji, Panasonic, Olympus, Kodak, Sony, and Samsung do. Not to mention Canon 

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adhall
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to bigpigbig, 11 months ago

I'll consider replacing my DSLR when I can choose from a full suite of lenses (no adapters) and when the EVF "gets there".

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love_them_all
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to bigpigbig, 11 months ago

Somebody needs to test the XT1 in low light focusing and also see what the real EVF lag is. And also the noise appearing in the EVF.

It's the low light lag/noise that makes EVF inferior.

bigpigbig wrote:

Sure there will be naysayers.

But I really believe that the mirrorless camera will replace the DSLR (eventually).

First, the EVF will get better and better and better and better. Eventually, it will be like looking through the lens like an OVF only better. Is it there yet, no. But the X-T1 is one step closer.

.005 second lag. Surely, that looks live.

.77x view with 38 degree diagonal view.

Secondly, AF-C 8 fps predictive auto focus that works. (Well it sure appears to)

This is still one shooting demand that normally makes me grab the DSLR. I am hopeful the X-T1 really does take over this need.

So what is left...

Well, you tell me.

Can we please not mention FF or larger sensor. I'd really like to know what is left as an advantage for DSLR?

Also, can we please try hard to keep this civil?

Maybe even refrain from judging others opinion and just state our own.

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bigpigbig
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to myphotographic, 11 months ago

myphotographic wrote:

Continuous Af that surpasses a D4/1DX, 14fps, a full range of supertelephotos (300mm f2.8, 400mm f2.8, 400mm f5.6, 500mm f4, 600mm f4, 800mm f5.6 and a 200-400 f4), some teleconverters and a range of tilt-shift lenses.

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Paul

Paul,

Do you think any of these features are always going to give DSLR an advantage or do you see a day when these are better in a different design?

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Ontario Gone
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to Graham Hill, 11 months ago

Graham Hill wrote:

I'm not threatened in the slightest. I have no problems with SLR's. I dont count down their death. I'm not fanatical about watching SLR's die. I'm a mirrorless/film shooter and happy to be so. I see no need to conduct a deathwatch. I'm not threatened by SLR's the way others are.

Amazing, you don't feel threatened in the "slightest" yet you show up to this thread to post makeshift sales numbers? Are you planning on buying the X-T1? Did you add anything constructive? I think you are defensive because you have an emotional connection to the mirror and you prefer OVF. You make it sound as if you don't care, yet here you are.

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bigpigbig
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to Graham Hill, 11 months ago

Graham Hill wrote:

bigpigbig wrote:

Graham Hill wrote:

Well that didnt take long. In order for mirrorless people to be happy, SLR's have to die.

Prediction: Nikon alone sells millions of SLR's in 2014.

2nd Prediction: Canon alone sells millions of SLR's in 2014.

Final Prediction: Fujifilm doesnt sell even half a million X-T1's in 2014.

I'll believe that mirrorless is taking over when just ONE of the makers of these cameras can turn a profit. Just one.

So what is left...

Well, you tell me.

And I know it is really hard for you not to be confrontational, feel threatened, etc. but please, for this thread, try.

I'm not threatened in the slightest. I have no problems with SLR's. I dont count down their death. I'm not fanatical about watching SLR's die. I'm a mirrorless/film shooter and happy to be so. I see no need to conduct a deathwatch. I'm not threatened by SLR's the way others are.

Others who have replied have made a great start.

Oh, OK.

I find it interesting. But I am a history (and future) buff. I enjoy studying how cameras have evolved and how they might change in the future.

If you do not, why even read this thread?

Why comment?

Spite?

Strange. Anyway...whatever.

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bigpigbig
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to love_them_all, 11 months ago

At present, most definitely.
But would you agree that the gap is closing? One day?
Or no?

love_them_all wrote:

Somebody needs to test the XT1 in low light focusing and also see what the real EVF lag is. And also the noise appearing in the EVF.

It's the low light lag/noise that makes EVF inferior.

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Zalan
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In reply to bigpigbig, 11 months ago

bigpigbig wrote:

But I really believe that the mirrorless camera will replace the DSLR (eventually).

In the long run (10 years or so) mirrorless can be better in every way. Today, not yet.

AF still needs to improve, speed alone is nothing, you need more features here like selecting focus point, continous tracking is not good enough yet, and so on.

Lenses will be a big disadvantages for a long time, as the two big brands has several million lenses in the users hands already, trying to force them to change takes money. Also mirrorless is more expensive at the moment than the low-end dslrs, so the volume cannot be there yet.

Also we have the m43, Fuji, Sony, Samsung, Canon, Nikon, Pentax doing mirrorless cameras, in the long run, not everyone will survive. It was a mistake on many makers part that they choose to go alone.

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Graham Hill
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to Ontario Gone, 11 months ago

Ontario Gone wrote:

Graham Hill wrote:

I'm not threatened in the slightest. I have no problems with SLR's. I dont count down their death. I'm not fanatical about watching SLR's die. I'm a mirrorless/film shooter and happy to be so. I see no need to conduct a deathwatch. I'm not threatened by SLR's the way others are.

Amazing, you don't feel threatened in the "slightest" yet you show up to this thread to post makeshift sales numbers?

Makeshift?  Do you understand sales from 2013?

Are you planning on buying the X-T1?

I dont know, probably not.

Did you add anything constructive?

Just as much as you.

I think you are defensive

You are incorrect.  I'm not defensive.  That is just a tactic by you to slander my input.

because you have an emotional connection to the mirror

Did you even read what I wrote? (answer NO).  I am a MIRRORLESS SHOOTER.   My primary digital cameras are my X100 and X10.  No mirrors in those cameras buddy.

and you prefer OVF.

Yes, in my X100.

You make it sound as if you don't care, yet here you are.

You read my post entirely wrong.  Not one point noted correctly.

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howielenny
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to bigpigbig, 11 months ago

For professionals there is still a better lens selections for sports/wildlife and the auto focus is still better with professional dlsr's over mirror less at the moment. The longest auto focus zoom that can be used at present is the 55-230mm and that has a pretty slow speed so this area definitely needs to be addressed.  It's good that Fuji are actually doing something about the wider end of the lens selection as well. Also in the lens department there aren't many third party manufacturers making fast auto focus lenses for Fuji which can and will put some people off buying into the system.
I've just bought my first Fuji (XM1) and really enjoying it at the moment. My main camera is the Nikon D7100 which I love. I'm actually waiting for either the xpro-1 or xe-2 to eventually drop then I'll invest more into Fuji. The XT-A does look great but at the price it's coming out (and it's probably worth it) I'll be waiting a while yet before I get it.
There is certainly a market for both dslr and mirrorless systems and it'll be interesting to see over the next few years how this will all pan out.

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Graham Hill
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Re: Two more nails in the DSLR coffin...what is left?
In reply to bigpigbig, 11 months ago

bigpigbig wrote:

Graham Hill wrote:

bigpigbig wrote:

Graham Hill wrote:

Well that didnt take long. In order for mirrorless people to be happy, SLR's have to die.

Prediction: Nikon alone sells millions of SLR's in 2014.

2nd Prediction: Canon alone sells millions of SLR's in 2014.

Final Prediction: Fujifilm doesnt sell even half a million X-T1's in 2014.

I'll believe that mirrorless is taking over when just ONE of the makers of these cameras can turn a profit. Just one.

So what is left...

Well, you tell me.

And I know it is really hard for you not to be confrontational, feel threatened, etc. but please, for this thread, try.

I'm not threatened in the slightest. I have no problems with SLR's. I dont count down their death. I'm not fanatical about watching SLR's die. I'm a mirrorless/film shooter and happy to be so. I see no need to conduct a deathwatch. I'm not threatened by SLR's the way others are.

Others who have replied have made a great start.

Oh, OK.

I find it interesting.

As do I.

But I am a history (and future) buff. I enjoy studying how cameras have evolved and how they might change in the future.

As am I.

If you do not, why even read this thread?

See above.

Why comment?

See above.

Spite?

Lose the defensiveness.  No one is attacking you.  They are not out to get you.

Strange. Anyway...whatever.

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PerL
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Always on and DR for example
In reply to bigpigbig, 11 months ago

bigpigbig wrote:

Sure there will be naysayers.

But I really believe that the mirrorless camera will replace the DSLR (eventually).

First, the EVF will get better and better and better and better. Eventually, it will be like looking through the lens like an OVF only better. Is it there yet, no. But the X-T1 is one step closer.

.005 second lag. Surely, that looks live.

.77x view with 38 degree diagonal view.

Secondly, AF-C 8 fps predictive auto focus that works. (Well it sure appears to)

This is still one shooting demand that normally makes me grab the DSLR. I am hopeful the X-T1 really does take over this need.

So what is left...

Well, you tell me.

How long does the battery last if you leave the EVF in "always on" mode? And you have the DR issue.

And lets see how well the AF-C works. I think this is the third or fourth time the term "the world fastest AF" is used with a new EVF based camera.

And lets see if there is no "slide show" effect when the camera shots series at the highest speed while the processor is working with AF, exposure etc

Can we please not mention FF or larger sensor. I'd really like to know what is left as an advantage for DSLR?

Also, can we please try hard to keep this civil?

Maybe even refrain from judging others opinion and just state our own.

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