So much for the EVF being insufficient for action.....

Started 8 months ago | Discussions
Ontario Gone
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So much for the EVF being insufficient for action.....
8 months ago

Well in case anybody else hasn't heard, Fuji just dropped a bomb and there will likely be a lot of broken glass, as well as broken hearts. Not only is it a .77x magnification, the biggest of any digital camera, they also ratcheted down the lag. We are looking at a 0.005 sec lag time, not bad eh? The goodies are listed HERE. I guess now it's just a matter of getting that on sensor predictive tracking a bit faster and then...well, we know what then. Happy shooting 

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57LowRider
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Re: So much for the EVF being insufficient for action.....
In reply to Ontario Gone, 8 months ago

Ontario Gone wrote:

Well in case anybody else hasn't heard, Fuji just dropped a bomb and there will likely be a lot of broken glass, as well as broken hearts. Not only is it a .77x magnification, the biggest of any digital camera, they also ratcheted down the lag. We are looking at a 0.005 sec lag time, not bad eh? The goodies are listed HERE. I guess now it's just a matter of getting that on sensor predictive tracking a bit faster and then...well, we know what then. Happy shooting

It is a bomb - so long as it lives up to the spec. I'll wait a little while to see how the early adopters get along and if it's thumbs up, bang my order for a body in.

That manual focusing feature, really incredibly cool at first look.

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Mike CH
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My heart warms for you
In reply to Ontario Gone, 8 months ago

... can you cross your heart and say the same for those who do not share your tastes?

Regards, Mike
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Wait and see...

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Ontario Gone
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Re: My heart warms for you
In reply to Mike CH, 8 months ago

Mike CH wrote:

... can you cross your heart and say the same for those who do not share your tastes?

No, but i really look forward to hearing from the guys who have been preaching about the inadequacies of modern EVFs. You know, the same guys who have been invading any pro mirrorless thread for years. Where ya at fellas?

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fishywisht
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Re: So much for the EVF being insufficient for action.....
In reply to Ontario Gone, 8 months ago

It's not the lag time that is the issue for EVF, it is the refresh rate for the viewfinder in bursts that crippled the Sony EVF. Not so much good boasting a 10fps if the viewfinder updates 3-4fps while you're shooting. Been here before seeing an EVF with superficially attractive specifications and when you dig in to the user reports, it's found lacking.
People who are serious about shooting sports don't choose cheap cameras and lenses and aren't going to hastily jump on a bandwagon because of what some kid says. That "bomb" fuji dropped is 90% likely to be a pebble in somebody else's irrelevant puddle.

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coudet
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No mention of refresh rate?
In reply to Ontario Gone, 8 months ago

I do wonder why are they hiding it.

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Ontario Gone
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Re: So much for the EVF being insufficient for action.....
In reply to fishywisht, 8 months ago

fishywisht wrote:

People who are serious about shooting sports don't choose cheap cameras and lenses and aren't going to hastily jump on a bandwagon because of what some kid says. That "bomb" fuji dropped is 90% likely to be a pebble in somebody else's irrelevant puddle.

Some people won't jump on board no matter what anybody says, they are simply incapable of moving on. To some of these people, admitting mirrorless is capable is tantamount to admitting they are wrong in an argument. That is painful to them. By the way, who is the kid spouting the bandwagon talk? Perhaps i missed his or her posts.

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Mike CH
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That is really, really sad
In reply to Ontario Gone, 8 months ago

Ontario Gone wrote:

Mike CH wrote:

... can you cross your heart and say the same for those who do not share your tastes?

No,

Really? You do not have it in your heart to accept other peoples choices?

Wow. That is really, really sad.

but i really look forward to hearing from the guys who have been preaching about the inadequacies of modern EVFs. You know, the same guys who have been invading any pro mirrorless thread for years. Where ya at fellas?

You mean the people who said that current EVFs don't cut it, but that newer versions possibly could? They would be vindicated, wouldn't they?

Regards, Mike
--
Wait and see...

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Glen Barrington
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Re: So much for the EVF being insufficient for action.....
In reply to Ontario Gone, 8 months ago

The camera sounds interesting, but you?  Not so much. This post is the sort of nonsense we have had to deal with from fanboys for a very long time.  You've earned a place on my ignore list with the first time I've heard of you.

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Ontario Gone
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Re: So much for the EVF being insufficient for action.....
In reply to Glen Barrington, 8 months ago

So you posted to tell me I'm ignored?? You sure showed me 

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fishywisht
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Re: So much for the EVF being insufficient for action.....
In reply to Glen Barrington, 8 months ago

It's generally the kids who go on and on with the fanboy posts. Usually only them or the unemployed who have the time to concern themselves with getting people going all day. Serious photographers are generally so conservative they don't even use 3rd party lenses. They don't generally hop from system to system because of a press release. They're not only waiting for a favourable review, they are waiting for user experience.
There are any number of things that could render a new camera inadequate in practice, from being too slow in image review and tagging, to that "heatsink" in that EVF system overheating and slowing things to a crawl after some intense use. That's the kind of thing that easily gets overlooked in a review but rules a camera out in use.
I'm curious, if it's hot enough for the heatsink gets hot, what else gets hot? Where is that heat going to escape?

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Ontario Gone
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Re: That is really, really sad
In reply to Mike CH, 8 months ago

Mike CH wrote:

Ontario Gone wrote:

Mike CH wrote:

... can you cross your heart and say the same for those who do not share your tastes?

No,

Really? You do not have it in your heart to accept other peoples choices?

Wow. That is really, really sad.

yes, I'm a monster I know.

but i really look forward to hearing from the guys who have been preaching about the inadequacies of modern EVFs. You know, the same guys who have been invading any pro mirrorless thread for years. Where ya at fellas?

You mean the people who said that current EVFs don't cut it, but that newer versions possibly could? They would be vindicated, wouldn't they?

they say future models will cut it while hoping for the opposite. This is about preference mike, who are you kidding. Nobody wants the competition to take over.

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PerL
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Samples please
In reply to Ontario Gone, 8 months ago

Ontario Gone wrote:

Well in case anybody else hasn't heard, Fuji just dropped a bomb and there will likely be a lot of broken glass, as well as broken hearts. Not only is it a .77x magnification, the biggest of any digital camera, they also ratcheted down the lag. We are looking at a 0.005 sec lag time, not bad eh? The goodies are listed HERE. I guess now it's just a matter of getting that on sensor predictive tracking a bit faster and then...well, we know what then. Happy shooting

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"Run to the light, Carol Anne. Run as fast as you can!"

I think I have heard the term "the worlds fastest AF" at least three times in connection with launches of EVF based cameras. Did you read the fine print how they measured it? With a 14 2.8 lens.

BTW the lag time - is it measured in all conditions or just ideal conditions?

Dont believe everything you read, wait for convincing samples.

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Lee Jay
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Is the claim even true?
In reply to Ontario Gone, 8 months ago

According to Fuji Rumors, the refresh rate is 54fps which, if true, makes Fuji's claim of 0.005s (50ms) lag impossible to be true. If the readout and processing speed were both zero (which, of course, they aren't), a 54fps refresh rate means a lag of 1/54 = 0.0185s (18.5ms). Of course, readout and processing speed are not zero. In fact, I suspect they are 0.005s (and Fuji is ignoring the frame period) making the peak lag under ideal conditions (I doubt they are talking about low-light) 0.005+0.0185=0.0235s or 23.5ms. Since I measured my SX50 as having a total lag of 25ms, this is nothing to write home about especially since that 25ms lag made me unable to track a high speed subject I needed to shoot (I simply switched to an SLR and got the job done).

Add to that the claimed CIPA battery life of 350 shots (versus 920 for the Canon 70D) and you're right back to the same old EVF problems - too much lag, too much power use.

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Lee Jay

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Greg A A
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Optics vs Electronics - how about an EV replacement for glasses?
In reply to Ontario Gone, 8 months ago

Many people don't want to look at the world they are photographing through a small TV set. Try replacing someone's glasses with an electronic viewing screen. Why doesn't Google just replace the entire glasses with an electronic screen? This is why many people prefer their OVF.

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Jim Cassatt
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Re: Samples please
In reply to PerL, 8 months ago
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PerL
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Re: Samples please
In reply to Jim Cassatt, 8 months ago

Jim Cassatt wrote:

Take a look at http://www.fujirumors.com/first-look-fujifilm-x-t1/#more-21179

Looks really good.

I did look at those, very nice images, but I want to see something faster and more challenging.

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sportyaccordy
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Re: My heart warms for you
In reply to Ontario Gone, 8 months ago

Ontario Gone wrote:

Mike CH wrote:

... can you cross your heart and say the same for those who do not share your tastes?

No, but i really look forward to hearing from the guys who have been preaching about the inadequacies of modern EVFs. You know, the same guys who have been invading any pro mirrorless thread for years. Where ya at fellas?

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"Run to the light, Carol Anne. Run as fast as you can!"

The EVFs up to this point HAVE been inadequate for action shooting.

And mirrorless folks like yourselves are the antagonizers here. This coming from a loyal NEX shooter. It's a wonder why you haven't been banned yet.

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Richard
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I prefer optics, that is what photography is about.
In reply to Greg A A, 8 months ago

Greg A A wrote:

Many people don't want to look at the world they are photographing through a small TV set. Try replacing someone's glasses with an electronic viewing screen. Why doesn't Google just replace the entire glasses with an electronic screen? This is why many people prefer their OVF.

I prefer my eye over OVF or EVF, because it looks natural through it. When my eye degrades I prefer to wear contacts or glasses over an electronic eye or monitor and video camera, because it is natural to look through glass. When I look at myself in the mirror, I prefer a mirror over a camera and monitor because it looks more natural.

When you use a mirror, it is a reflection of the object, when you use EVF it is a representation of what a bunch of photosites process and composite into an image then is represented again as a video monitor. It is a representation of a representation.

I prefer to see through optics and a mirror, that is what photography is about. There is nothing wrong with a digital representation of a representation of the object. It is just more natural not to have to go through those gyrations.

35mm film is still around, all the crop versions of film have gone away. Mirrorless is in decline, you cannot deny facts. To say that mirrorless will increase when it is in decline is not wise, how do we determine the future.. we look to the past. Everyone who wants a mirrorless has one buy now and it is still in decline, if someone produces something revolutionary like cell phones, then that technology will take off. Mirrorless has had its big bang and super introduction and now it dwindles, how sad for those who embrace mirrorless. Now all that have to do is put sable technologies down and rave about how someday, their declining tech will rise up out of the ashes.

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Representing!
In reply to Richard, 8 months ago

Richard wrote:

Greg A A wrote:

Many people don't want to look at the world they are photographing through a small TV set. Try replacing someone's glasses with an electronic viewing screen. Why doesn't Google just replace the entire glasses with an electronic screen? This is why many people prefer their OVF.

I prefer my eye over OVF or EVF, because it looks natural through it. When my eye degrades I prefer to wear contacts or glasses over an electronic eye or monitor and video camera, because it is natural to look through glass. When I look at myself in the mirror, I prefer a mirror over a camera and monitor because it looks more natural.

When you use a mirror, it is a reflection of the object, when you use EVF it is a representation of what a bunch of photosites process and composite into an image then is represented again as a video monitor. It is a representation of a representation.

I prefer to see through optics and a mirror, that is what photography is about.

I wanna represent to you
this representation

of a representer
of a representation
helping you represent
when you're composing
a mental representation
of the representation
of the representation
you see represented
on the screen

so you can scream
with delight when
the represented light
pixels to be pixels in pix
does not give you a fright
if you're scared of reality
now you'll never have to be
now you'll never have to see
any part of reality
you can have everything
represented, everything
pixelated, virtualized away
to a computer game-like
experience, a deliverance
of the burden of the real
keep your one eye pealed
and the other one shut
and the rut and the rut
of the real don't deal
it's gone out of mind
out of sight only light
is the electronic glow
of the represented flow
of photos you'll never
ever have to see again
then
it will be fine...
you will be fine...

the mirror won't show you
the awful lies
of your body and mind
the mirror the mirror
the curse of the mirror
is broken...
you have awoken
to a new day
a new place
dream my child
you will be fine...

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