Another DX/FX Question (610 vs 7100): lens compatibility

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
tarheelbost
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Another DX/FX Question (610 vs 7100): lens compatibility
9 months ago

I currently have a D7000 and like the camera well enough.

Here is my problem: I have two DX lenses (35mm 1.8G and 18-200mm 3.5-5.6G ED VRII) and two FX lenses (50mm 1.4G and 105mm 2.8 micro). The D7000 works great with the DX lenses, but has serious back focus issues with the FX lenses (try shooting macro with a back focus issue!). I have tried to calibrate lenses and, even though the evidence is clear, Nikon refuses to repair under warranty. I have also updated firmware, lens data, etc., etc.

At this point, I am now looking at either the D7100 or D610. My biggest concern is lens compatibility:

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If stay with D7100, I am worried that the FX lenses will have same back focus issue and/or will not work with the DX body.

-- If I go with D610, I am worried that the DX lenses will not keep up with full frame sensor.

Not a professional -- I have young children and travel frequently, so my photos are mostly kids in action and landscape (macro if I can get the lens to focus properly). Some street photography, but thinking of getting something smaller (mirrorless) for walking around.

I know the question has been asked before, but wanted to see what you guys think given my current lens collection.

Thanks in advance. Posting in 7100 forum as well.

H

Nikon D610 Nikon D7000 Nikon D7100
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lost_in_utah
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Re: Another DX/FX Question (610 vs 7100): lens compatibility
In reply to tarheelbost, 9 months ago

DX lenses are not recommended on a FX camera. If you use DX lenses on a FX camera, the results may not be desirable.

You have two lenses that may have issues, and you cannot have the irrational fear that all FX lenses will exhibit similar behavior because of what you feel is happening to two current FX lenses.

Your current camera has the ability to adjust for some minor focusing issues. Have you tried asking for help on the forums for a solution?

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Robin Casady
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Re: Another DX/FX Question (610 vs 7100): lens compatibility
In reply to tarheelbost, 9 months ago

Keep the D7000 and DX lenses for a walk-around camera. Get a D610 for your more serious shooting.

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Robin Casady
http://www.robincasady.com/Photo/index.html
"The whole problem with the world is that fools and fanatics are always so certain of themselves, and wiser people so full of doubts."
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VertigonA380
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Re: Another DX/FX Question (610 vs 7100): lens compatibility
In reply to tarheelbost, 9 months ago

My advice is to wait, why? The D610 isn't really a new camera, just a fix for the D600's oil problems.

If you can't wait, get the D610. It actually doesn't compare favourably to the D7100 on paper other than the bigger sensor, but that is reason enough to get it, besides it's about the same size, so why even bother with DX anything? Reach you might say, get rid of your DX stuff and get a teleconvertor, not the same sure, but it's something.

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jfriend00
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Re: Another DX/FX Question (610 vs 7100): lens compatibility
In reply to tarheelbost, 9 months ago

I don't see anything in your shooting requirements that will particularly benefit from an FX body. As such, I'd say to save $1000 on the body to potentially invest in better glass going forward. In fact, you should be able to get good results with your D7000 too.

A persistent back-focus issue should be correctable with focus calibration for each lens. There's nothing unique about an FX lens on a DX body that would make it more or less likely to have a back-focus issue. Just do focus calibration. If you don't know how, a Google search will find plenty of articles and videos on how to do it properly.

For macro, you should probably just learn how to use manual focus because that lets you put the focus exactly where you want it anyway and the viewfinder doesn't lie about what's in focus so there's never a back-focus issue with manual focus. Besides, your focus target in a macro shot is often not the right size, shape or position to use a focus sensor on and you never want to focus and re-aim the camera in something as critical as macro. You want to set up the shot and then without moving the camera, focus exactly where you want and take the shot.

As for your lenses, your primes should all be able to give you very sharp shots as long as they aren't wide open and you should be able to focus calibrate them pretty easily (since they are primes with only one focal length). The 18-200 is not a particularly sharp lens unless it's stopped down to f/8 and even then, it's not great at the longer end. I own an 18-200 and use it myself occasionally, but only when the flexibility of the super-zoom is more important than the best IQ.

You will not want to use your DX lenses on an FX body.   In shooting with the full FX sensor, the DX lenses will degrade significantly at the edges.  If you put the d610 in DX mode for your DX lenses, then you've lost any advantage of owning an FX camera in the first place yet spent the money on it - which simply doesn't make sense.  With a DX body, you can use either DX or FX lenses.  With an FX body, you really shouldn't plan on using DX lenses for your regular shooting.

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Leonard Shepherd
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Re: It helps to post images or links to images
In reply to tarheelbost, 9 months ago

tarheelbost wrote:

I have two DX lenses (35mm 1.8G and 18-200mm 3.5-5.6G ED VRII) and two FX lenses (50mm 1.4G and 105mm 2.8 micro). The D7000 works great with the DX lenses, but has serious back focus issues with the FX lenses (try shooting macro with a back focus issue!). I have tried to calibrate lenses and, even though the evidence is clear, Nikon refuses to repair under warranty. I have also updated firmware, lens data, etc., etc.

A body which front or back focuses does so with every lens - implying the body is not the issue.

A lens which front or back focusses does so on every body. Have you tried the FX lenses on another body?

It is well known but not always accepted AF does not work well with some subjects.

You think the evidence is clear but Nikon seem to disagree as you imply they have been unable to confirm an AF fault.

Small sample images of AF front or back focus images are all that are needed to comment on whether the issue is likely to be AF target selection, or something else.

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Leonard Shepherd
Great images are often of good subjects.
If they are great images does what lens, body or technique was used matter more than the skill of the photographer?

 Leonard Shepherd's gear list:Leonard Shepherd's gear list
Nikon D800 Nikon D7100 Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 18-200mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED VR Nikon AF-S DX Nikkor 12-24mm f/4G ED-IF Nikon AF-S Nikkor 16-35mm f/4G ED VR +19 more
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tarheelbost
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Re: Another DX/FX Question (610 vs 7100): lens compatibility
In reply to tarheelbost, 9 months ago

Not to change topics in mid-stream, but I have gone through calibration on both lenses several times to no avail.

Once I hit +/- 15 adjustment, I figured something was wrong with the camera. I used a very high contrast (black on stainless steel) ruler and a tripod with additional weight on top of the camera (to reduce shutter slap) and used a remote trigger. I shot from 3-5 feet away at a 45 degree angle (or steeper), used center point AF, etc. In other words, followed directions posted in forums to the letter.

At no calibration, the lens was 1/8" off from three feet away. I could never get it better than 1/16" off. 1/16" is a HUGE problem as everything is noticeably "off".

If you can think of anything else I can do, I am all ears.

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tarheelbost
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Re: Another DX/FX Question (610 vs 7100): lens compatibility
In reply to lost_in_utah, 9 months ago

See new post below.  Have tried calibrating in camera with AF Fine Tune, but Nikon not willing to calibrate.

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jfriend00
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Re: Another DX/FX Question (610 vs 7100): lens compatibility
In reply to tarheelbost, 9 months ago

tarheelbost wrote:

Not to change topics in mid-stream, but I have gone through calibration on both lenses several times to no avail.

Once I hit +/- 15 adjustment, I figured something was wrong with the camera. I used a very high contrast (black on stainless steel) ruler and a tripod with additional weight on top of the camera (to reduce shutter slap) and used a remote trigger. I shot from 3-5 feet away at a 45 degree angle (or steeper), used center point AF, etc. In other words, followed directions posted in forums to the letter.

At no calibration, the lens was 1/8" off from three feet away. I could never get it better than 1/16" off. 1/16" is a HUGE problem as everything is noticeably "off".

If you can think of anything else I can do, I am all ears.

If you send camera body and lens to Nikon with the report that the focus error is too large to calibrate, what does Nikon say?  It seems like this should be a serviceable issue rather than throwing away the body.

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tarheelbost
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Re: Another DX/FX Question (610 vs 7100): lens compatibility
In reply to jfriend00, 9 months ago

jfriend00 wrote:

If you send camera body and lens to Nikon with the report that the focus error is too large to calibrate, what does Nikon say? It seems like this should be a serviceable issue rather than throwing away the body.

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I tried that when I originally purchased and they said that they would charge me (cannot remember total) even though it was under warranty.

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jfriend00
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Re: Another DX/FX Question (610 vs 7100): lens compatibility
In reply to tarheelbost, 9 months ago

tarheelbost wrote:

jfriend00 wrote:

If you send camera body and lens to Nikon with the report that the focus error is too large to calibrate, what does Nikon say? It seems like this should be a serviceable issue rather than throwing away the body.

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I tried that when I originally purchased and they said that they would charge me (cannot remember total) even though it was under warranty.

That seems like something you can certainly argue with them on (about whether you or they should pay for it).  And, even if they are going to charge you are you willing to throw away your current body and buy a new one rather than pay to have it fixed?  Focus alignment/calibration is a fixable item.

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wasserball
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Re: Another DX/FX Question (610 vs 7100): lens compatibility
In reply to VertigonA380, 9 months ago

VertigonA380 wrote:

My advice is to wait, why? The D610 isn't really a new camera, just a fix for the D600's oil problems.

If you can't wait, get the D610. It actually doesn't compare favourably to the D7100 on paper other than the bigger sensor, but that is reason enough to get it, besides it's about the same size, so why even bother with DX anything? Reach you might say, get rid of your DX stuff and get a teleconvertor, not the same sure, but it's something.

Do you have any information that the D610 sensor is an improvement over the D600, or is it hearsay that became fact? I don't know what % of the D600 cameras had the oil issue, but mine with about 5000 activations has no oil issue.

The Nikon D600 and D610 use the same 24.3-megapixel full-frame 35.9 x 24mm CMOS sensor. The ISO range is the same at ISO 100-6400, expandable to ISO 50-256000. This sensor performs very well in the D600, with excellent sharpness, dynamic range and high ISO performance. The only DSLR to beat it for resolution is Nikon’s larger and more expensive D800.

 wasserball's gear list:wasserball's gear list
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tarheelbost
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Re: Another DX/FX Question (610 vs 7100): lens compatibility
In reply to jfriend00, 9 months ago

Will go another round with them (and maybe include some of these posts) before swapping out bodies.

Thanks for the feedback.

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wasserball
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yes, Nikon improved the shutter. NT
In reply to wasserball, 9 months ago

wasserball wrote:

VertigonA380 wrote:

My advice is to wait, why? The D610 isn't really a new camera, just a fix for the D600's oil problems.

If you can't wait, get the D610. It actually doesn't compare favourably to the D7100 on paper other than the bigger sensor, but that is reason enough to get it, besides it's about the same size, so why even bother with DX anything? Reach you might say, get rid of your DX stuff and get a teleconvertor, not the same sure, but it's something.

Do you have any information that the D610 sensor is an improvement over the D600, or is it hearsay that became fact? I don't know what % of the D600 cameras had the oil issue, but mine with about 5000 activations has no oil issue.

The Nikon D600 and D610 use the same 24.3-megapixel full-frame 35.9 x 24mm CMOS sensor. The ISO range is the same at ISO 100-6400, expandable to ISO 50-256000. This sensor performs very well in the D600, with excellent sharpness, dynamic range and high ISO performance. The only DSLR to beat it for resolution is Nikon’s larger and more expensive D800.

 wasserball's gear list:wasserball's gear list
Kenko Teleplus Pro 300 AF 1.4x Nikon D3S Nikon D600 Nikon AF-S Nikkor 70-200mm f/2.8G ED VR Nikon AF-S Nikkor 400mm f/2.8G ED VR II +3 more
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StevieF
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Re: Another DX/FX Question (610 vs 7100): lens compatibility
In reply to tarheelbost, 9 months ago

Just another viewpoint - I'm not saying that it's right!

I was coming from a D300 (which I will not sell - fabulous camera - still has some +points over the 7100!) and was faced with the 'shall I go FX with a 610 or stay DX with the 7100?' I have a mix of lenses, incl the 'classic' 70-200 2.8, which performed amazingly on the D300 and I decided to invest my funds (slightly more than the cost of a 610 body admittedly!) on glass, rather than sensor on the basis that this would make the biggest difference, IMO, to IQ for the stuff that I like to shoot - I bought the 14-24 and 24-70 2.8's which gave me the 'holy trinity' in Nikon world. I do not regret it for one moment.

A bit heavy with those lenses, possibly, but that's where the firesale-priced (no chance otherwise) Nikon 1 comes in (but that's a different subject altogether!) if I don't feel like carrying it

I WILL eventually go FF (when I can stack up some funds) with whatever follows the 610 a few models down the line - but knowing that I have some superlative glass in front of, lets be honest, a great sensor in the 7100 gives me quite a buzz and there's more than enough room to crop if needs be.

You may disagree, but for me the biggest IQ difference these days comes from the glass, less so the sensor.

Best of luck in your choice! 

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You may think that - I couldn't possibly comment.

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