for all practical purpose

Started 9 months ago | Discussions
Donald B
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for all practical purpose
9 months ago

Well finally the test images are up on image resource for the K3, so I downloaded the dummy shot and printed it at A4 as well as the k7 iso 100 shot for a comparison, and to be honest even at a2 you would barely see any difference, it makes you wonder how a test site cant get the wb  correct as the k3 has a yellow cast to it ? as far as detail goes the nx20 20meg shows more fine detail but is probably lens quality. so the k7 lives on for my purpose shooting dance schools but the nx30 sure looks good as a lighter replacement.

cheers don

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Donald B
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this is 4 years in upgrades
In reply to Donald B, 9 months ago

the dates will tell you which camera. this would be a massive poster.

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Jan Rinze
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Re: this is 4 years in upgrades
In reply to Donald B, 9 months ago

Donald B wrote:

the dates will tell you which camera. this would be a massive poster.

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could you elaborate on the cameras used in this comparison? the newer image seems to have more dynamic range.

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Donald B
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Re: this is 4 years in upgrades
In reply to Jan Rinze, 9 months ago

Jan Rinze wrote:

Donald B wrote:

the dates will tell you which camera. this would be a massive poster.

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Pentax K7, Panasonic fz150, Olympus XZ1, my main toys.

could you elaborate on the cameras used in this comparison? the newer image seems to have more dynamic range.

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k3 k7 its not dr its a little usm on the k7 shot to sharpen it up to equal the k3 shot we a talking very big crop here 1/200th of the original.

cheers don

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awaldram
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Re: this is 4 years in upgrades
In reply to Donald B, 9 months ago

I can never figure out who your trying to convince , yourself or us.?

Your crops are so large that any detail is completely destroyed by resizing artifacts where there was insufficient pixels to resolve i.e 2 into 1 does not go.

Using this methodology you could take a 360k 2002 web cam and prove there was no advantage in the D800.!

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KL Matt
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Re: this is 4 years in upgrades
In reply to awaldram, 9 months ago

awaldram wrote:

I can never figure out who your trying to convince , yourself or us.?

Your crops are so large that any detail is completely destroyed by resizing artifacts where there was insufficient pixels to resolve i.e 2 into 1 does not go.

Using this methodology you could take a 360k 2002 web cam and prove there was no advantage in the D800.!

He probably has to go to 700% magnification on the screen because his eyes are so bad. But nothing but the very best photographic equipment will do!

M

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... interested in .... photographs? Heh? Know what a mean? Photographs? (He asked him knowingly). Nudge nudge, snap snap, grin grin, wink wink, say no more, say no more, know what a' mean? Know what a' mean?
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Cane
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Re: this is 4 years in upgrades
In reply to KL Matt, 9 months ago

I wish someone would blow a cat up.

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unknown member
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Re: for all practical purpose
In reply to Donald B, 9 months ago

Donald B wrote:

so the k7 lives on for my purpose shooting dance schools

The problem with shooting dance school is never the lighting, the camera, or the processing. It's the bloody parents.

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Wait for the bright flash so I can steal your soul. Smile!

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Donald B
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Re: for all practical purpose
In reply to The Andy G, 9 months ago

The Andy G wrote:

Donald B wrote:

so the k7 lives on for my purpose shooting dance schools

The problem with shooting dance school is never the lighting, the camera, or the processing. It's the bloody parents.

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Wait for the bright flash so I can steal your soul. Smile!

How true is thatm thanks for a good laugh.

cheers don

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Donald B
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Re: this is 4 years in upgrades
In reply to awaldram, 9 months ago

awaldram wrote:

I can never figure out who your trying to convince , yourself or us.?

Myself, couldn't care what others are using, for people without the latest and greatest posters here keep telling us how great the latest model is, just cant see the quotes like : wow the dr is unbelievable, image has way more detail, camera is so much faster, im finding it hard to quantify those findings.

Your crops are so large that any detail is completely destroyed by resizing artifacts where there was insufficient pixels to resolve i.e 2 into 1 does not go.

its my point, photographers have been printing billboards for years on 12-16meg cameras.

Using this methodology you could take a 360k 2002 web cam and prove there was no advantage in the D800.!

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Jim in Hudson
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Re: this is 4 years in upgrades
In reply to Donald B, 9 months ago

Donald B wrote:

awaldram wrote:

I can never figure out who your trying to convince , yourself or us.?

Myself, couldn't care what others are using, for people without the latest and greatest posters here keep telling us how great the latest model is, just cant see the quotes like : wow the dr is unbelievable, image has way more detail, camera is so much faster, im finding it hard to quantify those findings.

Your crops are so large that any detail is completely destroyed by resizing artifacts where there was insufficient pixels to resolve i.e 2 into 1 does not go.

its my point, photographers have been printing billboards for years on 12-16meg cameras.

Using this methodology you could take a 360k 2002 web cam and prove there was no advantage in the D800.!

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Pentax K7, Panasonic fz150, Olympus XZ1, my main toys.

Don, I don't think the K-3 proposition has ever really been about 24 MP or DR. Instead, it's been AF reliability, focus tracking, dual card slots, on-the-fly flash exposure consistency and predictability... maybe even WB. If those things don't matter to you or anyone else then that helps you decide if the camera is right for you.

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kitsios_spyros
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Re: for all practical purpose
In reply to The Andy G, 9 months ago

The Andy G wrote:

Donald B wrote:

so the k7 lives on for my purpose shooting dance schools

The problem with shooting dance school is never the lighting, the camera, or the processing. It's the bloody parents.

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Wait for the bright flash so I can steal your soul. Smile!

LOL! Especially when they show up with their daughter's violin and we have to make a "dance shot" with it in the picture.

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Kind Regards,
Spyros

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awaldram
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Re: this is 4 years in upgrades
In reply to Donald B, 9 months ago

Donald B wrote:

awaldram wrote:

I can never figure out who your trying to convince , yourself or us.?

Myself, couldn't care what others are using, for people without the latest and greatest posters here keep telling us how great the latest model is, just cant see the quotes like : wow the dr is unbelievable, image has way more detail, camera is so much faster, im finding it hard to quantify those findings.

Your crops are so large that any detail is completely destroyed by resizing artifacts where there was insufficient pixels to resolve i.e 2 into 1 does not go.

its my point, photographers have been printing billboards for years on 12-16meg cameras.

No they haven't where did you get that idea.?

Billboards until recently were the preserve of large format film cameras and not until the Hasselblad H3D-II 50 did Digital start making inroads into this market.

Add to that they ten to utilize Vector imaging to create the illusion of detail your 'blow ups' have no relationship to billboards whatsoever.!

Using this methodology you could take a 360k 2002 web cam and prove there was no advantage in the D800.!

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 awaldram's gear list:awaldram's gear list
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Donald B
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Re: this is 4 years in upgrades
In reply to Jim in Hudson, 9 months ago

Donald B wrote:

awaldram wrote:

I can never figure out who your trying to convince , yourself or us.?

Myself, couldn't care what others are using, for people without the latest and greatest posters here keep telling us how great the latest model is, just cant see the quotes like : wow the dr is unbelievable, image has way more detail, camera is so much faster, im finding it hard to quantify those findings.

Your crops are so large that any detail is completely destroyed by resizing artifacts where there was insufficient pixels to resolve i.e 2 into 1 does not go.

its my point, photographers have been printing billboards for years on 12-16meg cameras.

Using this methodology you could take a 360k 2002 web cam and prove there was no advantage in the D800.!

-- hide signature --

Pentax K7, Panasonic fz150, Olympus XZ1, my main toys.

Don, I don't think the K-3 proposition has ever really been about 24 MP or DR. Instead, it's been AF reliability, focus tracking, dual card slots, on-the-fly flash exposure consistency and predictability... maybe even WB. If those things don't matter to you or anyone else then that helps you decide if the camera is right for you.

Hi jim . After looking at image resourse the wb was way off, the image was realy sharp but also the poster was shot at a closer distance to give the appearece of more detail. Iadded usm to the k7 shot and wow it looked nearly the same as the k3? I heard the other day that the sensor on the 7100 was interpolated to 24meg ?
Cheers don

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James O'Neill
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Back to basics.
In reply to Donald B, 9 months ago

A camera is a box with a lens at the front, and image recorder at the back and various bits of convenience along the way. (Starting with a calibrated shutter, then exposure control, then autofocus etc.).

The K7/K5 are basically the same camera give or take the sensor, the K5II has a AF improvements, and the K3 has many small improvements to help the process of picture taking.

Back when the *Ist-D was new I took some a test photo and had it printed 6x4 at native resolution (500 pixels per inch), and then scaled down the image to different numbers of Pixels and came to the conclusion beyond about 150pixels per inch the eye can't see any improvement. I have the prints to prove you can make a very good A3 print from 6MP, and have seen decent A4 prints from 2MP cameras. Since we often view our pictures on computer screens of less than 2MP and ~ A4 size this shouldn't be a surprise.

Law of diminishing returns has really kicked in with pixel counts. What we are seeing is better high ISO performance and longer dynamic range, which in everyday shooting probably don't matter a lot, but for certain cases are vital .

The only way to get a big step in quality from the K7 era is to change something fundamental, like the sensor size. The question is, given how good crop sensors are, how many people really need (as opposed to want) that step with the cost that comes with it.

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Donald B
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Re: Back to basics.
In reply to James O'Neill, 9 months ago

James O'Neill wrote:

A camera is a box with a lens at the front, and image recorder at the back and various bits of convenience along the way. (Starting with a calibrated shutter, then exposure control, then autofocus etc.).

The K7/K5 are basically the same camera give or take the sensor, the K5II has a AF improvements, and the K3 has many small improvements to help the process of picture taking.

Back when the *Ist-D was new I took some a test photo and had it printed 6x4 at native resolution (500 pixels per inch), and then scaled down the image to different numbers of Pixels and came to the conclusion beyond about 150pixels per inch the eye can't see any improvement. I have the prints to prove you can make a very good A3 print from 6MP, and have seen decent A4 prints from 2MP cameras. Since we often view our pictures on computer screens of less than 2MP and ~ A4 size this shouldn't be a surprise.

Law of diminishing returns has really kicked in with pixel counts. What we are seeing is better high ISO performance and longer dynamic range, which in everyday shooting probably don't matter a lot, but for certain cases are vital .

The only way to get a big step in quality from the K7 era is to change something fundamental, like the sensor size. The question is, given how good crop sensors are, how many people really need (as opposed to want) that step with the cost that comes with it.

couldn't agree more.

last year I got a poster printed for a dance student 30in wide and forgot to take a full res file 12meg to the lab, instead I had taken the 5x7in 2meg file , I live out of town and wasn't driving back to get the original file so I printed the 2meg, the poster was perfect and very detailed even at close viewing and the student loved it. took me by surprise big time.

cheers don

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