If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...

Started 6 months ago | Discussions
syntheticproduct
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Re: If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...
In reply to ericN2, 6 months ago

ericN2 wrote:

PC Wheeler wrote:

Not i. The GM1 is cute but not special. Its novelty will soon fade.

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Phil

I am told - by someone on here for whom I have the highest regard in respect of opinions on the merits of many different cameras, that the GM-1 is indeed an exceptionally good camera of the type .. and as it is of course essentially in the M4/3 style/type.. for which I am well enough experienced by now and for which I have my own well preferred lenses.. it is without doubt a camera not to be lightly written off.

BUT .. there is always a 'BUT' when it comes to choosing ANYTHING ..be it a camera, a car or anything else... and I can't help but wonder if indeed what perhaps IS the main attraction of it right now .. the sheer modest size of it compared to almost anything of like type ..CAN become a big disadavantage.
Also having the Sony RX-100 could be a parallel to keep in mind. I bought one and indeed still accept and rate highly the quality of pic it will take..and I've had some excellent ones from that .. but the very first thing I did when I got it was to add a Leather Skin (Japan Hobby Tool' AND also buy the GARIZ half-case...those made it for me a different camera altogether..one which I can carry and feel VERY happy with. Is the GM-1 the same I wonder.. it seems to have as its main merit the smallness which still gives the excellent quality... but is it TOO small for handling comfort ?
Since in the immediate or indeed forseeable future I have NO means at all of actually seeing the GM-1 or handling one..I know of no shops within my available distance now that I can do this, as I've always done in the past (they've all closed down or packed in for various reasons) so I have no chance right now of making sure that my reasonably large sum of money to buy one is indeed going to prove worthwhile... as mentioned in another post - for the benefit of such as US readers - the GM-1 WITH the 12-32 lens, costs here a minimum of =$950 ...that's a big amount to gamble on.. I think I'll simply wait and see if I can get one at a more realistic figure AND maybe when they do start to sell as a body only. It makes more sense...

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/eric
Staffordshire, UK

I have a RX 100 ii and a GM1 and I dont notice the handling being different. What the GM1 allows you to do is always be in your pocket (with a pancake) BUT you can throw you favorite zoom or voigtlander in your bag (on days where you have a bag) in case an opportunity arises.
Also, amazon.co.uk has the GM1, i believe with 30 days free returns. that would be no risk on your part.

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syntheticproduct
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Re: Don't underestimate the quality of the 12-32 lens
In reply to ericN2, 6 months ago

ericN2 wrote:

eastvillager wrote:

Nice test thanks. As for the OP. If you think the GX7 is too expensive or the GM1 should come body only thats great but who really cares. This gentlemans test adds something to the mix and our understanding of photography and photography equipment. The trouble with much of this forum is it's whiners who have nothing to add to dialogue.

Well..if THAT's your attitude then I've certainly nothing more to say to you.. but it SHOULD be the case that manufacturers take at least some notice of prospective buyers thoughts.. we ARE these days a lot more in a Buyers Market than probably for many earlier years..money is tighter and in UK at least, Sales have to be earned right now.. and forcing prospective Buyers to pay a very high price for something which includes a chunk of value that is NOT needed by choice..is not the best way of going about it.
You carry on with your own little World of how it should be... but very many do consider just WHAT they are getting for the price they are asked to pay - and if it's not right.. a purchase is not made.
It's NOT whining..it's constructive thoughts and hopes as a BUYER .. any Manufacturer that ignores that nowadays does so at his peril.. we are not all 'made of money' ..

Tom Axford wrote:

ericN2 wrote:

  • why should we HAVE to buy a lesser quality lens on the GM-1 to acquire the Body, for the benefits that does give...

/eric
Staffordshire, UK

The GM1 is out of stock in lots of places so obviously yes, we are in a "buyers market". in a market where PLENTY of people buy the GM1 it seems (just being humorous).
Also, if the lens is that pricey that it would amount to a considerable discount to buy 'body-only', then resell the lens and make your own discount? ebay can give you very accurate 'past prices' for items.
If the body only price after operation above is still too high for your taste, fine. But not sure that warrants a thread. There are PLENTY of things I find too expensive relative to my particular needs.

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zodiacfml
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Re: If the GM-1 was sold as a fixed lens prime or zoom....
In reply to ericN2, 6 months ago

with a hotshoe, a leaf shutter, and near the price of an Rx100 II, I'll be interested.

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Marty4650
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If the 12-32mm lens was sold as 'Lens Only' I might be tempted ...
In reply to ericN2, 6 months ago

I think Panasonic is missing out by marketing the GM-1 and 12-32mm lens only as kits in some markets. I think each product could have higher sales if sold separately and together.

Some of us might want to have:

  • The GM-1 body only, to use with a pancake prime
  • The 12-32mm lens only, to use with M4/3 cameras we already own
  • Both sold together, as a kit

Of course, the market will always find a solution, as people will buy kits then split them in order to generate savings for themselves. These savings could belong to Panasonic instead, if they had only sold the parts separately, alongside the kits.

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Ming-KM
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Re: Waiting for a while, good tbinking, EricN2
In reply to Hen3ry, 6 months ago

Hi
I got my hot little hands on a 12-32 kit from a GM1 when my daughter bought one. She swapped the 12-32 for my 25 1.4 and after using it on my GX1 I am sold. It is a good kit lens.
Used to travel with my 7-14 but am considering to take only the 12-32 with my 45 and the 45-200. The 7-14 in temperate climes includes too much of my own shadow at 7 to 11 mm. If I turn into the sun flare becomes a problem!
Try out the 12-32 before selling it and you may be surprised. A friend said that he had no use for the 24 equivalent focal length of the LX3 until he got one. Now he cannot live without 24 equivalent.

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Len_Gee
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Re: Waiting for a while, good tbinking, EricN2
In reply to Ming-KM, 6 months ago

Ming-KM wrote:

Hi
I got my hot little hands on a 12-32 kit from a GM1 when my daughter bought one. She swapped the 12-32 for my 25 1.4 and after using it on my GX1 I am sold. It is a good kit lens.
Used to travel with my 7-14 but am considering to take only the 12-32 with my 45 and the 45-200. The 7-14 in temperate climes includes too much of my own shadow at 7 to 11 mm. If I turn into the sun flare becomes a problem!
Try out the 12-32 before selling it and you may be surprised. A friend said that he had no use for the 24 equivalent focal length of the LX3 until he got one. Now he cannot live without 24 equivalent.

Does the 12-32 kit lens OIS work when mounted on your GX1?

Where is it set?  On the lens, or in the GX1 menu?

In other words, is the lens stabliized when mounted and shooting on the GX1?

How do you thnk the 12-32 IQ stacks up against the lengendary Panjny 14-45?

Thanks.

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ChristophBarthold
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Re: If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...
In reply to ericN2, 6 months ago

ericN2 wrote:

.. but since I have my beloved GX1.. which I firmly believe is every bit as good and capable to me as the new GX7 which contains nothing extra that I feel I truly need or justifies the hugely extra cost in UK at least.. I don't like Touch Screens (which is on the GX1 anyway..but shut off now..) nor EVF's when I have no problems in fully composing all I shoot on the GX1.. this new one is again hugely expensive and over-priced in UK.

The GM-1 does have the benefit of a very small compact size but with all the general M4/3's attributes - isn't it the case that one of the main benefits of M4/3 is the capability to choose your own camera body AND lens(es) to go with it - why should we HAVE to buy a lesser quality lens on the GM-1 to acquire the Body, for the benefits that does give...

Sorry Panasonic - but I'm not a customer at this time ...

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/eric
Staffordshire, UK

Hi Eric, I haven't read the entire thread so apologies if I am repetitive...

IMHO it goes without saying that any manufacturer of ILCs ought to sell body only - and conversely make any lens available sans body. So you want the GX1 without the lens and I want the lens without the camera. If you want, pm me regarding a solution

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AG
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Re: If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...
In reply to ericN2, 6 months ago

ericN2 wrote:

AG wrote:

ebay : new, body ONLY USD 590 + free shipping

AG -

As I presume you are in US when giving that $$$ price, I have to assume that at no time have you been in the position of trying to import anything from US to UK. I gave that idea up long ago when I wanted to buy some article from B&H...I asked the cost and the amount they were charging for post alone was almost as much as the modest price article. It is horrendously expensive (or can be) to Import from US to UK..especially such as a camera.. which by its nature almost invariably would be caught by Customs who then add a Duty fee..PLUS some sort of Handling etc...PLUS then our also innocuous Value Added Tax of 20%...the camera can end up damn near anything from 50-75% maybe higher than the initial payment.. and likely is little difference to the price here anyway.

Sorry but the idea is just not as good as you may think.

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/eric
Staffordshire, UK

Not exactly the case you have mentioned above. Yes I am in US, but seller(s) is in Taiwan, there would be no US->UK problems. Not sure what would be any other tax on UK custom if any , but here , in US, normally whatever I am paying to abroad seller is what total cost to me. And this one has S&H included:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PANASONIC-DMC-GM1-GM1-CAMERA-BODY-ONLY-SILVER-by-EMS-/141141874477?pt=Digital_Cameras&hash=item20dcb6172d

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PANASONIC-DMC-GM1-GM1-CAMERA-BODY-ONLY-BLACK-by-EMS-/380796404629?pt=Digital_Cameras&hash=item58a93c0395

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ericN2
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Re: If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...
In reply to ChristophBarthold, 6 months ago

ChristophBarthold wrote:

Hi Eric, I haven't read the entire thread so apologies if I am repetitive...

IMHO it goes without saying that any manufacturer of ILCs ought to sell body only - and conversely make any lens available sans body. So you want the GX1 without the lens and I want the lens without the camera. If you want, pm me regarding a solution

Hi Chris -

It's got to be a lengthy thread but to put one thing right..you refer to the GX1..I have that already..it's the GM-1 which I was thinking of....UNTIL I found it not available as separates.. 
But it is now very clear that although I have NO desire at all for the 12-32 kit-lens..the Pancake 14mm IS my well preferred lens and will always be over any other kit-lens type..I just could not buy the BODY only...
Also - it is regrettable that I nowadays have no shops at all in my vicinity that I could actually see and handle the GM-1 in.. it is a very small body..smaller in fact than the RX-100 which I have..and THAT is small..so would I literally go happily with the GM-1 ??  that is why to a great extent I'm not at all happy at being forced to pay for a full kit I don't want..THEN if it became an option..go to the paraphernalia of packing and posting a lens to be sold.. just because I can't put my money down for the BODY only .. which I would want..

It's a no-no for me right now..I'm feeling less happy about it all and with the uncertainties of being happy with the Body handling etc.

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/eric
Staffordshire, UK

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ericN2
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Re: If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...
In reply to AG, 6 months ago

AG wrote:

ericN2 wrote:

AG wrote:

ebay : new, body ONLY USD 590 + free shipping

AG -

As I presume you are in US when giving that $$$ price, I have to assume that at no time have you been in the position of trying to import anything from US to UK. I gave that idea up long ago when I wanted to buy some article from B&H...I asked the cost and the amount they were charging for post alone was almost as much as the modest price article. It is horrendously expensive (or can be) to Import from US to UK..especially such as a camera.. which by its nature almost invariably would be caught by Customs who then add a Duty fee..PLUS some sort of Handling etc...PLUS then our also innocuous Value Added Tax of 20%...the camera can end up damn near anything from 50-75% maybe higher than the initial payment.. and likely is little difference to the price here anyway.

Sorry but the idea is just not as good as you may think.

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/eric
Staffordshire, UK

Not exactly the case you have mentioned above. Yes I am in US, but seller(s) is in Taiwan, there would be no US->UK problems. Not sure what would be any other tax on UK custom if any , but here , in US, normally whatever I am paying to abroad seller is what total cost to me. And this one has S&H included:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PANASONIC-DMC-GM1-GM1-CAMERA-BODY-ONLY-SILVER-by-EMS-/141141874477?pt=Digital_Cameras&hash=item20dcb6172d

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-PANASONIC-DMC-GM1-GM1-CAMERA-BODY-ONLY-BLACK-by-EMS-/380796404629?pt=Digital_Cameras&hash=item58a93c0395

Don't rely on your US situation to represent what it is here alas.  If it comes in from US.. Taiwan . HK .. Japan or indeed anywhere outside UK..and the item is clearly above a nominal value (and it cannot be hidden in any realistic way if it is sold such as it should be..)  then it will without a doubt be captured for UK Duties...both Customs + Handling + our dratted 20% VAT ...a BIG lot extra over what you may have paid to the overseas Seller.  Almost all Far East Sellers on our Ebay make it clear in the small print that they are not responsible for Import Duties..small items of course are hardy ever charged..but such as a camera box is simply not escapable.. and I'd NEVER buy such a thing unless I had exactly as I'd buy it here..the selling value drops dramatically if you cannot give pretty well as it is normally sold here.

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/eric
Staffordshire, UK

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LMNCT
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Re: If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...
In reply to ericN2, 6 months ago

In no way would I consider the 12-32 lens which comes with the GM1 to be a "lesser" lens.  If you have not used it, you might like to try it out.  It is not like the 14-42 lens which is not a great performer.  The GX1 is a nice camera.  I own one and have enjoyed using it (it is about to become a gift to a worthy recipient) but it is not as quick as the GM1 (or the GX7).  With digital the new releases come with improvements and more capabilities.  You are never required to use the touch screen settings.  Personal setups are easy.  If you like the GX1, you would probably be more inclined to like the GX7 which is a greatly improved unit.

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Ulric
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Re: If the 12-32mm lens was sold as 'Lens Only' I might be tempted ...
In reply to Marty4650, 6 months ago

Marty4650 wrote:

I think Panasonic is missing out by marketing the GM-1 and 12-32mm lens only as kits in some markets. I think each product could have higher sales if sold separately and together.

I think the bottleneck right now is production capacity rather than demand. The body and lens will surely be available separately eventually.

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Englishman in France
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If the 12-32mm was sold as 'lens only' I might be tempted ...
In reply to ericN2, 6 months ago
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gteague
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Re: If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...
In reply to ericN2, 6 months ago

i don't care about the articulating lcd or the eyepiece finder very much--those items didn't influence my purchase of the gx7. i bought the gx7 as a replacement for my gx1 for basically one reason--i have oly lenses and the gx7 has stabilization.

but i bought a panasonic lens to use with the gx7 and paid $400 for it on ebay. it was the 12-32 off a gm1 which meant the guy who bought that kit got a very cheap body indeed. and it wasn't like he didn't like the lens (it has gotten very good reviews and a thumbs up from me as well), he just had another copy of it from somewhere else.

thus i say that if you have means to sell the lens you can get the gm1 body you say you want at a very good price as long as there is no major american outlet for buying the lens standalone.

/guy

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Len_Gee
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Re: If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...
In reply to gteague, 6 months ago

gteague wrote:

i don't care about the articulating lcd or the eyepiece finder very much--those items didn't influence my purchase of the gx7. i bought the gx7 as a replacement for my gx1 for basically one reason--i have oly lenses and the gx7 has stabilization.

but i bought a panasonic lens to use with the gx7 and paid $400 for it on ebay. it was the 12-32 off a gm1 which meant the guy who bought that kit got a very cheap body indeed. and it wasn't like he didn't like the lens (it has gotten very good reviews and a thumbs up from me as well), he just had another copy of it from somewhere else.

thus i say that if you have means to sell the lens you can get the gm1 body you say you want at a very good price as long as there is no major american outlet for buying the lens standalone.

/guy

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"The world is going to pieces and people like Adams and Weston are photographing rocks!" ~Henri Cartier-Bresson

Does the 12-32 kit lens OIS work when mounted on your GX7?  Is there an OIS switch on the 12-32 lens?

How would the 12-35 lens be stablized if mounted on an older Panny MFT lens?

Where is it set?  On the lens, or in the GX7 menu?

In other words, is the lens stabliized when mounted and shooting on the GX7?

That would make the lens stablized for shooting videos when attached to the GX7, correct?

How do you thnk the 12-32 IQ stacks up against the lengendary Panny 14-45?  Or does it even mattert to you?

Thanks.

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gteague
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Re: If the GM-1 was sold as 'Body only' I might be tempted ...
In reply to Len_Gee, 6 months ago

Len_Gee wrote:

gteague wrote:

i don't care about the articulating lcd or the eyepiece finder very much--those items didn't influence my purchase of the gx7. i bought the gx7 as a replacement for my gx1 for basically one reason--i have oly lenses and the gx7 has stabilization.

but i bought a panasonic lens to use with the gx7 and paid $400 for it on ebay. it was the 12-32 off a gm1 which meant the guy who bought that kit got a very cheap body indeed. and it wasn't like he didn't like the lens (it has gotten very good reviews and a thumbs up from me as well), he just had another copy of it from somewhere else.

thus i say that if you have means to sell the lens you can get the gm1 body you say you want at a very good price as long as there is no major american outlet for buying the lens standalone.

/guy

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"The world is going to pieces and people like Adams and Weston are photographing rocks!" ~Henri Cartier-Bresson

Does the 12-32 kit lens OIS work when mounted on your GX7? Is there an OIS switch on the 12-32 lens?

How would the 12-35 lens be stablized if mounted on an older Panny MFT lens?

Where is it set? On the lens, or in the GX7 menu?

In other words, is the lens stabliized when mounted and shooting on the GX7?

That would make the lens stablized for shooting videos when attached to the GX7, correct?

How do you thnk the 12-32 IQ stacks up against the lengendary Panny 14-45? Or does it even mattert to you?

Thanks.

yes, the gx7 defaults to lens stabilization if available and the 12-32 doesn't have a switch, so there's no choice. hopefully that answers your first 4 questions all in one.

video is not stabilized on the gx7 using the body stabilization and i don't think it's stabilized even with a stabilized lens mounted. i sure wish they could fix this in firmware, but most likely not. it's disappointing and a weak point for sure, given the capabilities and quality of the video system.

i've never owned the panasonic 14-45 as i really dislike 28mm (equiv) as a format. but i did own the oly 12/2 and i currently own the oly 9-18 and the 12-32 compares quite favorably with both of them although the pana 12-35 does beat it quite handily--albeit at 3x the price and 5x the size.

/guy

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Hen3ry
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Re: Waiting for a while, good tbinking, EricN2
In reply to ericN2, 6 months ago

ericN2 wrote:

geoff -

I'm very pleased indeed to hear of another someone who enjoys the qualities of the Pannie 14mm Pancake. I see so many little dislikes of the lens by many others and for different reasons that I now just ignore them.. I KNOW that to me it is - or it gives me - a great deal more pleasure and satisfaction of shot , than the 20mm ever did. The latter is a VERY good lens..I'll not argue with that at all..but frankly in many ways the 14mm is better.
Of course basically it is all down very simply to WHAT focal length suits each one best - if you like shooting generally within this sort of FL .. I do .. I'd say maybe 90% or even more, of my pics I get with the 14mm and I never find it in any way disappointing. We re all different of course in the lens we think best - it isn't BEST usually it's what best SUITS us each..I'm happy with my fixed 14mm Pancake.. and that is simply why I don't want another one - the 12-32.. spending on something I don't really want is fruitless.

Spot on, ericN2.

Of course, you could use the 12-32 set on 14!    it would be not much over f3.5 at 14 and thus only one stop slower than the f2.5 14. Also bear in mind that the GM1 sensor is terrific, so losing a stop in speed is not so critical.

Another consideration is that it looks as though quite a few people might be interested in buying a 12-32 so there could be a chance of capitalizing on that in the open market, particularly when the price of the GM1 inc. lens comes down a little.

Cheers, geoff

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