XF56 f1.2 released and specs

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
ejw07
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Re: XF56 f1.2 released and specs
In reply to Graham Hill, 11 months ago

need i answer you D600

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Absolutic
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Re: XF56 f1.2 released and specs
In reply to draculr, 11 months ago

draculr wrote:

Yea, whilst it is cool that they're releasing such a lens it definitely cannot compete with the Canon 85mm 1.2 as much as their marketing may soon suggest otherwise.

they can compete in one way for sure (I used to own 85/1.2L II).   85 1.2 weighs over a kilo.  It was a bitch to carry even on my 5DM3 after a while.    56/1.2 from Fuji is 400 grams.  It will be a pleasure to carry on my XE2.   Preordered.

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Erik Magnuson
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Re: XF56 f1.2 released and specs
In reply to viking79, 11 months ago

viking79 wrote:

Robert Garcia NYC wrote:

not really your not factoring in the extra real estate on the sensor, which is gathering light. So, it's an f 1.8.

No, f/stop and focal length are physical properties of the lens that never change on any sensor size

Yes, but since the "f" in f-stop means focal length, you cannot convert one for comparison without converting the other. Basic algebra. This also more correctly represents the lens size and difficulty in building  which is why a 1" sensor can have an affordable 10x constant f/2.8 zoom.

However, the larger sensor catches more total light, hence the term equivalent. This lens is about equivalent to an 85mm f/1.8 used on full frame.

It will also have essentially the same DOF characteristic as 85mm f/1.8 on FF.

Amount of light available for autofocus on the 56mm f/1.2 will in fact be greater.

This is tricky - are the AF sensors scaled to sensor area or fixed size? If they are PDAF sensors, then they look through a smaller virtual aperture of the lens and the extra speed doesn't help.

The downside with large sensors is you start to get very dim viewfinders. Look at old view cameras, very little light to focus with.

There are two issues:

  1. Getting all of the light collected to the eye while shielding from ambient. If you had a giant hoodman-type loupe for a view camera, it would seem brighter
  2. The ground glass for such cameras was optimized to show focus variation and not for light transmission. Even among 24x36mm camera viewfinders, you had significant variations in brightness depending on the focusing screen design. Since most cameras also metered off the screen, you often had to adjust your exposure when swapping focus screens.
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Krich13
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Re: XF56 f1.2 released and specs
In reply to LWS2013, 11 months ago

LWS2013 wrote:

a l b e r t wrote:

http://www.fujifilm.com/products/digital_cameras/x/fujinon_lens_xf56mmf12_r/specifications/

Weight 405g (XF23 1.4 weight: 300g, Canon 85 1.2 weight: 1025g)

From the MTF charts, it looks like wide open sharpness is about the same as 23 f1.4.

And price is more reasonable ($999), not $1299 as someone predicted.

since the 85mm eqv is primarily a portrait focal length one would be shooting this for DoF rather than available light, since this is an APS-C lens you should really compare it to a FF lens that provides around the same DoF, the Nikon 85mm f1.8G which is rated very highly by Dxo for its sharpness wide open weights 350g and is around the same size as the Fuji 56mm and is close to 1/3rd of the price.

Size/use/weight wise the Fuji 56mm offers little over using a FF DSLR 85mm lens, we will have to wait and see if it's worth the extra 2/3rds cost.

Nikon 85/1.8 G is an excellent lens, I have one and love it (on D610). And, indeed it's cheaper (two times in the US) than this new Fuji, which helps offset high price of FF camera.

However, it has a very serious drawback: longitudinal CAs are pretty terrible. I actually prefer Canon's 85/1.8 for that reason (even though Nikon is marginally sharper) --that is preferred until I sold all my Canon gear in favor to Nikon.

It remains to be seen how new Fuji deals with LoCAs, it may or may not be better than Nikon 85. For twice the price it'd better be...

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malcolml1
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Re: XF56 f1.2 released and specs
In reply to hellocrowley, 11 months ago

Ok, I should have said it provides the same amount of light per unit area of the sensor....surely????  Or are you saying that, for a given ISO and f number the exposure time will be shorter for a f1.2 lens on full frame as opposed to an f1.2 lens on an APS format camera??

In other words, if what you say is right then the following worked examples would be true (all other parameters being constant):

FF sensor at f1.2 and 1/125 sec exposure would work out as f1.2 and roughly 1/90 sec exposure on the X series APS sensor

Or FF sensor, f2 at 1/125 sec = APS sensor f2 1/90 = HTC sensor f2 at  1/15 sec (assuming the HTC is about 1/6 linear dimension of APS - I don't know the actual value).

Is that what you are saying?

Malcolm

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Krich13
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Re: XF56 f1.2 released and specs
In reply to malcolml1, 11 months ago

malcolml1 wrote:

Ok, I should have said it provides the same amount of light per unit area of the sensor....surely???? Or are you saying that, for a given ISO ...

Malcolm

Not for given ISO. For ISO bumped up 1 stop (a little more actually), yes: the exposure time will be the same for Nikon 85/1.8 and Fuji 56/1.2. As would be the noise/detail ratio despite 1-stop ISO penalty, bigger sensors do perform better whatever Fuji marketing folks say (actually, more details under most conditions will be resolved by Canikon because of their higher pixel count, but that's another matter).

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malcolml1
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Re: XF56 f1.2 released and specs
In reply to Krich13, 11 months ago

Yes, I agree on the noise and detail argument.  I was just curious about the exposure bit.  Another way of posing the question is perhaps in terms of a given field of view of a scene.  The 56 mm Fuji lens has roughly the same FoV as an 85mm lens on a FF sensor.  If both lenses have their aperture open to give an f number of f1.2, would the exposure time be the same to get the same total exposure on the sensor?

One could even imagine that the light intensity per unit area on the smaller sensor would be greater on the smaller sensor because the incoming light is focused onto a smaller area.

Must admit to being a bit confused.....

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PLLOVE
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Re: XF56 f1.2 released and specs
In reply to a l b e r t, 11 months ago

I'm really excited about this lens!

Does anyone know what the lens hood looks like?

Pat

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CeleryBeats
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Re: XF56 f1.2 released and specs
In reply to a l b e r t, 11 months ago
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dark13star
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Re: XF56 f1.2 released and specs
In reply to malcolml1, 11 months ago

malcolml1 wrote:

Yes, I agree on the noise and detail argument. I was just curious about the exposure bit. Another way of posing the question is perhaps in terms of a given field of view of a scene. The 56 mm Fuji lens has roughly the same FoV as an 85mm lens on a FF sensor. If both lenses have their aperture open to give an f number of f1.2, would the exposure time be the same to get the same total exposure on the sensor?

One could even imagine that the light intensity per unit area on the smaller sensor would be greater on the smaller sensor because the incoming light is focused onto a smaller area.

Must admit to being a bit confused.....

Yes, exposure time is the same, given the same ISO (and yes, I realize there is a small difference in the way different managers implement the standard). Assume ISO 200 f/1.8 on both lenses, same exposure. The focal length doesn't change exposure either, at least not on the subject as measured neutral gray. What does change is the amount of other light in the scene for wider lenses.

At f 1/2 the Fuji lens can get exposures (faster shutter speed in same light) that the FF f/1.8 lens cannot.

I see this misunderstanding of exposure on the forum a lot lately. People need to go back to using hand-held light meters and setting exposures across multiple cameras to see that exposure is independent of sensor size. Depth of field will change at a given f-stop though.

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Red5TX
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Re: XF56 f1.2 released and specs
In reply to a l b e r t, 11 months ago

Holy crap, Panasonic's 45 f/1.2 is going to cost $1599!!

http://shop.panasonic.com/shop/model/H-NS043

Well played, Fuji.

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ballwin12
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Re: XF56 f1.2 released and specs
In reply to CeleryBeats, 11 months ago

Bigger and heavier than Nikon 85mm 1.8G, wow!!

I believe Fuji's optic is as good, if not better than Nikon! Af speed is worse for sure, however.

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malcolml1
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Re: XF56 f1.2 released and specs
In reply to dark13star, 11 months ago

Thanks - that's what I thought too....

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Caerolle
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Re: XF56 f1.2 released and specs
In reply to Krich13, 11 months ago

Krich13 wrote:

Nikon 85/1.8 G is an excellent lens, I have one and love it (on D610). And, indeed it's cheaper (two times in the US) than this new Fuji, which helps offset high price of FF camera.

However, it has a very serious drawback: longitudinal CAs are pretty terrible. I actually prefer Canon's 85/1.8 for that reason (even though Nikon is marginally sharper) --that is preferred until I sold all my Canon gear in favor to Nikon.

It remains to be seen how new Fuji deals with LoCAs, it may or may not be better than Nikon 85. For twice the price it'd better be...

I would think the 56 will be highly optically compensated.

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CeleryBeats
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Re: XF56 f1.2 released and specs
In reply to ballwin12, 11 months ago

It's actually smaller. Or did i miss something?

Fuji: 73.2mm x 69.7mm

Nikon 85g: 80 x 73 mm

Af speed is adequate i'm sure. AF speed is a luxery that is overrated anyway. imo.

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Caerolle
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Re: XF56 f1.2 released and specs
In reply to dark13star, 11 months ago

dark13star wrote:

Yes, exposure time is the same, given the same ISO (and yes, I realize there is a small difference in the way different managers implement the standard). Assume ISO 200 f/1.8 on both lenses, same exposure. The focal length doesn't change exposure either, at least not on the subject as measured neutral gray. What does change is the amount of other light in the scene for wider lenses.

At f 1/2 the Fuji lens can get exposures (faster shutter speed in same light) that the FF f/1.8 lens cannot.

I see this misunderstanding of exposure on the forum a lot lately. People need to go back to using hand-held light meters and setting exposures across multiple cameras to see that exposure is independent of sensor size. Depth of field will change at a given f-stop though.

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I actually tested this a while back. I set my 1/2.3" sensor compact and my full-frame camera both to the same aperture and shutter speed, and the ISO was within 1 stop.

I too used to believe that the light gathering was changed by the factor of sensor size, but it is not so: at the same aperture, no matter the sensor size, the exposure is the same, give-or-take differences in the camera meters.

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Krich13
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Re: XF56 f1.2 released and specs
In reply to malcolml1, 11 months ago

malcolml1 wrote:

Yes, I agree on the noise and detail argument.

If you agree on that, it is not clear to me what are we all arguing about. The angle of view is going to be the same, same DOF, same shutter speed (motion blur) and same signal-to noise... For all protographic intents and purposes, 56/1.2 on APS-C is equivalent to 85/1.8 on FF.

I was just curious about the exposure bit. Another way of posing the question is perhaps in terms of a given field of view of a scene. The 56 mm Fuji lens has roughly the same FoV as an 85mm lens on a FF sensor. If both lenses have their aperture open to give an f number of f1.2, would the exposure time be the same to get the same total exposure on the sensor?

Depends how you define "exposure". In the old film days, it was indeed "exposure PER UNIT AREA" regardless of frame size. Deliver too few photons, and the film is underexposed, milky what not. Deliver too many, chemical changes facilitate turning the entire frame black.

For semiconductor sensors what matters is the total number of photons per photosite, pretty much regardless of the site area. Make two sensors: say an APS-S and FF ones both of say 16 megapixels. Expose them using the same scene for the same duration using 56/1.2 and 85/1.8 lenses respectively. Each photosite will receive the same NUMBER of photons (the number per unit area is 2.25 times larger in the first case, but the area itself is smaller by the same factor). Each photosite (given equal quantum efficiency) will produce the same number of electron-hole pairs (photocurrrent) ergo the same signal and the same shot noise. If you read each sensor with the same preamplifier, equal Read noise will be introduced in both cases, as would be required amplifier gain!

However, a Photomertist would assign the first case say ISO 100, and the second -- ISO 225 based on exposure PER UNIT AREA, even though the physical amplifier gain is exactly the same in both cases.

Must admit to being a bit confused.....

The origin of your confusion is extrapolation of ISO sensitivity concept to modern sensors -- irrelevant one for digital sensors, the proper metric would be "light delivered to the whole sensor")

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Bill Robb
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Re: XF56 f1.2 released and specs
In reply to ballwin12, 11 months ago

ballwin12 wrote:

Bigger and heavier than Nikon 85mm 1.8G, wow!!

It's an f/1.2 lens. They tend to be on the large size.

I believe Fuji's optic is as good, if not better than Nikon! Af speed is worse for sure, however.

Well yes, in the context of this forum it is better. There are a number of people who can't seem to get it through their heads that this is a Fuji forum, not a Canon or Nikon forum, and as such it really doesn't matter a whit if a 56 f/1.2 can dance fewer DOF angels on the head of a pin than a Nikon or Canon 85 f/1.8. I can see this as being of passing interest if a person uses either a Nikon or a Canon, but for those of us who use neither, this constant carping about a few millimeters of depth of field is beyond frustrating.

At f/1.2 on an X-Pro1, the 56mm lens will have 3.38 inches of DOF at 8 ft. A D800 with an 85mm lens at f/1.4 will have 2.64 inches of depth of field, for a whopping .74 inches (19mm) of difference in DOF. I chose 8 feet simply because this would be close to what I would use as a portrait distance with this angle of view.

Really, if a person thinks this is a really big deal, they might have some mental health issues to deal with.

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Bill Robb
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Re: XF56 f1.2 released and specs
In reply to Krich13, 11 months ago

Krich13 wrote:

malcolml1 wrote:

Ok, I should have said it provides the same amount of light per unit area of the sensor....surely???? Or are you saying that, for a given ISO ...

Malcolm

Not for given ISO. For ISO bumped up 1 stop (a little more actually), yes: the exposure time will be the same for Nikon 85/1.8 and Fuji 56/1.2. As would be the noise/detail ratio despite 1-stop ISO penalty, bigger sensors do perform better whatever Fuji marketing folks say (actually, more details under most conditions will be resolved by Canikon because of their higher pixel count, but that's another matter).

Full frame sensors seem to have about 1 stop less noise than APS-C sensors, and it really only becomes an issue in the real world (as opposed to the camera forum world where a millimeter is the same as a kilometer) at high ISOs above 1600 or perhaps 3200. Certainly in a situation where a person was shooting at more reasonable ISOs or in a studio at low ISO, it isn't going to make enough of a difference to care about.

I really wish people would stop trying to justify large sensor cameras based on the rather small advantages they have in a couple of parameters.

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Krich13
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Re: XF56 f1.2 released and specs
In reply to CeleryBeats, 11 months ago

CeleryBeats wrote:

It's actually smaller. Or did i miss something?

Fuji: 73.2mm x 69.7mm

Nikon 85g: 80 x 73 mm

Af speed is adequate i'm sure. AF speed is a luxery that is overrated anyway. imo.

Canon EF 85/1.8: 75x71 mm

Canon FDn 85/1.8: 63x53 mm, 345 grams, filter diameter 52 mm! (add ~1" of adapter thickness to its length for use on Sony A7).

If AF speed is overrated, go manual focusing... Sony A7 with FDn 85/1.8 would cost and weigh the same as Fuji X-E2 with 56/1.2. Add FDn 35/2 instead of 23/1.4 and save another $800... Konica Hexanon 50/1.8 will likely outresolve Fuji 55/1.4 on FF sensor (albeit with worse bokeh quality) at equivalent apertures (starting f/2.1) for another $500 savings...

AF itself and AF speed are not something to neglect.

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