Stagnation of New APS-C Models?

Started 11 months ago | Discussions
captura
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Re: Unfortunately...
In reply to DT200, 11 months ago

Actually, there were many new features added in the 5R.

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parallaxproblem
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Re: Unfortunately...
In reply to DT200, 11 months ago

DT200 wrote:

 I do agree that releases like the 5t are almost (not completely) pointless for buyers..

I agree, but if they had called the 5T the A5000 (as was originally planned) and released it at the same time as the A3000 then it wouldn't have been pointless:

"We are renaming the popular NEX-5R as the A5000 to comply with our new naming conventions and at the same time providing a mild update to specifications so that it gains NFC and triluminous capabilities to make it fully compatible with the lates Xperia and Bravia models"

Such a move would have

- made a lot of sense and there would be no questions over the reasons for the release

- have reassured users that the discontinuation of the NEX product name would have no impact on the actual releases

Sony were planning to do this, but then at the last minute backtracked and gave the product the name NEX-5T instead, a name that they already knew would be discontinued.  The reasons for this are unclear and Sony have been deliberately obtuse on the matter.  Very poor behaviour!

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nevercat
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Let's wait....
In reply to parallaxproblem, 11 months ago

parallaxproblem wrote:

DT200 wrote:

I do agree that releases like the 5t are almost (not completely) pointless for buyers..

I agree, but if they had called the 5T the A5000 (as was originally planned) and released it at the same time as the A3000 then it wouldn't have been pointless:

Lets wait and see what name the Nex 3n successor will be, it can't be A3000 can it? I wonder what naming they will use for it. Will it be like Axxxx (maybe A3500, or A4000) or will it be different like Axxx, or ...

"We are renaming the popular NEX-5R as the A5000 to comply with our new naming conventions and at the same time providing a mild update to specifications so that it gains NFC and triluminous capabilities to make it fully compatible with the lates Xperia and Bravia models"

Such a move would have

- made a lot of sense and there would be no questions over the reasons for the release

- have reassured users that the discontinuation of the NEX product name would have no impact on the actual releases

Sony were planning to do this, but then at the last minute backtracked and gave the product the name NEX-5T instead, a name that they already knew would be discontinued. The reasons for this are unclear and Sony have been deliberately obtuse on the matter. Very poor behaviour!

I agree, only question is poor behaviour from who, Sony or the doomsday proclamers?

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parallaxproblem
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Re: Stagnation of New APS-C Models?
In reply to nevercat, 11 months ago

nevercat wrote:

When Sony said back in august when releasing the A3000 (along with the Nex 5t) that there would be more Nex styled cameras comming would that be believed by the doomsday people?

This is not true!

Sony have never said that there will be more NEX style cameras coming. I, and several other people have even posted on their blogs asking this precise question and received no reply

You keep on telling that the Nex 5t should be named A5000 just by a few photo's with that model number on it. I've given several reasons for this name on this camera, but you keep on telling that what you say is true...

What I say is true. Your 'reasons' aren't anything of the kind - kindly re-state them so that people can see them for what they are

All we hear in interviews with Sony is 'change change change' but nothing concerning what the future holds for NEX owners

Well Sony did show some of the future: A Full Frame E-mount camera, A very cheap E-mount camera, a Nex 5r successor, and tomorrow probably (it still is a rumor, so things can go different then we expect) a Nex 3 successor, so from August it was clear to me, and all the well thinking people what the future of the E-mount was: New cameras, so we can keep on using our E-mount lenses, nothing to worry....

Then you obviously have a line of communication with Sony (or a level of imagination) denied to most of us!

And change, change, change (as I often said) does not means that Sony will throw away a succesfull formfactor (successfull outside America)

Unless Sony tell us specifically what it means then you cannot put any such interpretation on it

The sad reality is that Sony care little for their existing customers and are only interested in expanding their market to non-Sony owners.

And many showed you where wrong, but you did not listen... You keep on proclaiming doom and gloom...

How do you know I am 'wrong'? How do you know what Sony are or are not planning to do?

All I have ever been asking for is for Sony to tell us in general terms (ie. no secrets) what is happening. What is 'wrong' about that?

and for others the economic absurdity of such behaviour in alienating loyal customers and destroying 'goodwill' is incomprehensible,

Could it be incomprehensible to Sony too? Could it be that Sony understands that only going for new custommers is a stupid thing? Do you realy think they need you, and the other end of the world proclaimers, to show them the right path?

Yes, I do!

We have seen them totally drop OVF for SLT, not make both models but drop one for the other! We have seen them first abandon their high-end A-mount bodies for the low end, and now seemingly abandon the low and middle for the high end. This is a company where internal politics take precedence over customer interests and so as customers we need to shout at them if we want our interests to be taken into account

but it remains a fact. A cursory examination of Sony's treatment of their A-mount customers over the last few years, and their reluctance to release new firmwares should remove any lingering doubts over this reality

For all the Nex cameras there was at least one FW update. So lets keep to the facts please. The A-mount custommers can still use there lenses and all their other A-mount things on the new camera, Yes they need an adapter to use their flashes on the new hotshoe (a thing MANY A-mount users asked for, a standard hotshoe!!)

And a rubbish adaptor it is too... not fixing properly onto the mount and as a result flashes dropping onto the floor and breaking. Well, that's one way of 'forcing' an upgrade!

And how many A-mount users who had spent money on flashes with the old fixation wanted the mount changed so their flashes could not be used effectively on the new cameras? I find that rather difficult to believe!

And for the SLT there is this to think of: Sony did come with a last "real" DSLR (A580) after they launched the A55. It was no success, Sony did what was economicly the right thing: stop with the camera that did not sell well, and go on with the cameras that do sell better!

Who says the A580 was not a success? They are chaning hands for relatively big bucks these days...

The total abandonment of OVF for SLT was probably as much a result of an internal 'turf war' between two conflicting product managers as something inspired by actual sales performance

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parallaxproblem
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Re: Let's wait....
In reply to nevercat, 11 months ago

nevercat wrote:

parallaxproblem wrote:

DT200 wrote:

I do agree that releases like the 5t are almost (not completely) pointless for buyers..

I agree, but if they had called the 5T the A5000 (as was originally planned) and released it at the same time as the A3000 then it wouldn't have been pointless:

Lets wait and see what name the Nex 3n successor will be, it can't be A3000 can it? I wonder what naming they will use for it. Will it be like Axxxx (maybe A3500, or A4000) or will it be different like Axxx, or ...

If they call it NEX then I will simultaneously breath a sigh of relief and then bash my head on the desk in front of me

The name will indeed be interesting...

"We are renaming the popular NEX-5R as the A5000 to comply with our new naming conventions and at the same time providing a mild update to specifications so that it gains NFC and triluminous capabilities to make it fully compatible with the lates Xperia and Bravia models"

Such a move would have

- made a lot of sense and there would be no questions over the reasons for the release

- have reassured users that the discontinuation of the NEX product name would have no impact on the actual releases

Sony were planning to do this, but then at the last minute backtracked and gave the product the name NEX-5T instead, a name that they already knew would be discontinued. The reasons for this are unclear and Sony have been deliberately obtuse on the matter. Very poor behaviour!

I agree, only question is poor behaviour from who, Sony or the doomsday proclamers?

I guess you think I fall into your second category.  How, exactly, is my behaviour 'poor'?

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This I can agree on...

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nevercat
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Re: Unfortunately...
In reply to DT200, 11 months ago

DT200 wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

I have the Sony NEX-F3 (and Nikon J1). Maybe it's me, but it seems like forever since new models have been announced other than the A3000 and A7/r--the former isn't really what I think of in terms of NEX, the latter are full-frame & as great as smaller full-frame models are, I think I'm one of many that appreciate what APS-C NEX models like the F3, 6 and 7 etc bring in terms of high image quality in a smaller package.

Is it just my imagination? I'm not dis-satisfied with my F3 (other than I wish you could use the command dial to more quickly choose AF points, not just the 4-way part of it) but the lack of new models can sort of send a "vibe" that the system is not likely to still be around in 3-odd years or so, or that it may end up being more like the A3000 which is NOT what I am looking for.

Tips?

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LRH

You have plenty of vocal companions who keep creating these threads. You start with APSc to complain about only 11 models in 3.5 years that E-mount has been around...

Really this is misleading. For example the NEX 5t is almost a rebadged 5r with some new firmware. The 5r was a 5n with a new sensor, but that sensor offered no real improvement.

The 5t has very little news, but it has NFC, that is a hardware change...

Comparing the original NEX 5 to the current 5t overall there is not much of a difference except they old 5 is a bargain.

Well lets do that:

Nex 5:

14 MP  AF: CDAF only  No lens correction  No WIFI No touchscreen 1 dial less no fn

no quickmenu

Nex 5t:

16 MP  AF:CDAF&PDAF Lens correction  WIFI and NFC Touchscreen, 1 extra dial fn button/wuick menu

That is a lot different I think...

Don't worry, Canon does the same thing. The old T2i and latest T5i perform almost exactly the same.

Yes

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PVCdroid
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Re: Unfortunately...
In reply to DT200, 11 months ago

DT200 wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

I have the Sony NEX-F3 (and Nikon J1). Maybe it's me, but it seems like forever since new models have been announced other than the A3000 and A7/r--the former isn't really what I think of in terms of NEX, the latter are full-frame & as great as smaller full-frame models are, I think I'm one of many that appreciate what APS-C NEX models like the F3, 6 and 7 etc bring in terms of high image quality in a smaller package.

Is it just my imagination? I'm not dis-satisfied with my F3 (other than I wish you could use the command dial to more quickly choose AF points, not just the 4-way part of it) but the lack of new models can sort of send a "vibe" that the system is not likely to still be around in 3-odd years or so, or that it may end up being more like the A3000 which is NOT what I am looking for.

Tips?

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LRH

You have plenty of vocal companions who keep creating these threads. You start with APSc to complain about only 11 models in 3.5 years that E-mount has been around...

Really this is misleading. For example the NEX 5t is almost a rebadged 5r with some new firmware. The 5r was a 5n with a new sensor, but that sensor offered no real improvement.

Comparing the original NEX 5 to the current 5t overall there is not much of a difference except they old 5 is a bargain.

Don't worry, Canon does the same thing. The old T2i and latest T5i perform almost exactly the same.

... the point about expecting frequent launches... pointless!

It is not pointless for Sony. They can't sell the NEX 5 for full price anymore, but add some little feature like NFS and they can sell the same camera at full price again. Canon knows this too. They are trying to make money. I do agree that releases like the 5t are almost (not completely) pointless for buyers..

I've been wrong on this before but believe we are done with revolutionary camera changes. We'll probably see NFC, EVF improvements and other tweaks but now that the sensors are of high quality there really isn't a ton to improve on. I think lenses will get better though and be able to keep up with the sensors. This seems evident with how sharp the Sony/Zeiss 55mm is. I have a few legacy lenses but don't believe they will continue to be in demand with new lenses designed with a specific camera in mind including stabilization, AF and sharpness. The super high end legacy lenses will continue to thrive in price and scarcity I'm sure but they are really more of a financial investment. I've watched Trey Ratcliff in his N7 to A7r transition go from Sony FE lenses to his quest for Leica glass back to a SEL1018 that he continues to rave about on the A7R. The native AF convenience factor is too much to ignore.

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parallaxproblem
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Re: Unfortunately...
In reply to nevercat, 11 months ago

nevercat wrote:

Nex 5:

14 MP AF: CDAF only No lens correction No WIFI No touchscreen 1 dial less no fn

no quickmenu

5T has no quickmenu either... only the 6 has this (acutally called quicknavi)

Both 5 and 5T have the 'custom menu' which is accessed from the center 'D' button on the 5 and from the fn button on the 5T.  The 5 allows 3 features to be added to the custom menu and the 5T allows 6 features

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: Stagnation of New APS-C Models?
In reply to nevercat, 11 months ago

captura wrote:

Mel Snyder wrote:

Greynerd wrote:

I would rather they concentrated on improving firmware on the current models.

Being able to have the level indicator and the histogram on the screen at the same time in my Nex 6 would be a nice start.

larrytusaz wrote:

I have the Sony NEX-F3 (and Nikon J1). Maybe it's me, but it seems like forever since new models have been announced other than the A3000 and A7/r--the former isn't really what I think of in terms of NEX, the latter are full-frame & as great as smaller full-frame models are, I think I'm one of many that appreciate what APS-C NEX models like the F3, 6 and 7 etc bring in terms of high image quality in a smaller package.

Is it just my imagination? I'm not dis-satisfied with my F3 (other than I wish you could use the command dial to more quickly choose AF points, not just the 4-way part of it) but the lack of new models can sort of send a "vibe" that the system is not likely to still be around in 3-odd years or so, or that it may end up being more like the A3000 which is NOT what I am looking for.

Tips?

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LRH

Might be a nice idea, but one always needs to put oneself in Sony's shoes - they would concentrate first on a firmware update that would "fix" perceived AF issues with the A& series, for their new flagship. Those of us with NEX-6s need to understand your recommended "fix" would please a very tiny number of people owning a camera that may not get a refresh.

They may unveil a surprise this week at CES.

Mel, you surely must remember all the remonstrances against Sony posted on this NEX forum over the last few years, because the much-expected firmware updates failed to arrive. With a couple of rare excepttions. My point is that Sony was negligent and this, as Parallax has said, points to their not caring much about their customers. This in contrast to Fuji who have even posted firmware updates for discontinued products.

You know that Sony did just the same with the Nex 5? The offered a FW update when the Nex 5n was already in the shops. They showed that they do care, but people are forgetting the good things... Fuji mentioned that they will come more with FW updates to make people use their cameras longer. I think it is a good thing to do it that way especialy when you can't come with a new camera every 1 to 2 years like Sony does.

It would be nice to get an FW update for my Nex 5, but I don't think it will ever come...

And not too long ago, captura made a blatant attempt to mock me still using a NEX-3. So much for "growing up".

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parallaxproblem
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Re: Unfortunately...
In reply to PVCdroid, 11 months ago

PVCdroid wrote:

DT200 wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

EinsteinsGhost wrote:

I have the Sony NEX-F3 (and Nikon J1). Maybe it's me, but it seems like forever since new models have been announced other than the A3000 and A7/r--the former isn't really what I think of in terms of NEX, the latter are full-frame & as great as smaller full-frame models are, I think I'm one of many that appreciate what APS-C NEX models like the F3, 6 and 7 etc bring in terms of high image quality in a smaller package.

Is it just my imagination? I'm not dis-satisfied with my F3 (other than I wish you could use the command dial to more quickly choose AF points, not just the 4-way part of it) but the lack of new models can sort of send a "vibe" that the system is not likely to still be around in 3-odd years or so, or that it may end up being more like the A3000 which is NOT what I am looking for.

Tips?

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LRH

You have plenty of vocal companions who keep creating these threads. You start with APSc to complain about only 11 models in 3.5 years that E-mount has been around...

Really this is misleading. For example the NEX 5t is almost a rebadged 5r with some new firmware. The 5r was a 5n with a new sensor, but that sensor offered no real improvement.

Comparing the original NEX 5 to the current 5t overall there is not much of a difference except they old 5 is a bargain.

Don't worry, Canon does the same thing. The old T2i and latest T5i perform almost exactly the same.

... the point about expecting frequent launches... pointless!

It is not pointless for Sony. They can't sell the NEX 5 for full price anymore, but add some little feature like NFS and they can sell the same camera at full price again. Canon knows this too. They are trying to make money. I do agree that releases like the 5t are almost (not completely) pointless for buyers..

I've been wrong on this before but believe we are done with revolutionary camera changes. We'll probably see NFC, EVF improvements and other tweaks but now that the sensors are of high quality there really isn't a ton to improve on. I think lenses will get better though and be able to keep up with the sensors. This seems evident with how sharp the Sony/Zeiss 55mm is. I have a few legacy lenses but don't believe they will continue to be in demand with new lenses designed with a specific camera in mind including stabilization, AF and sharpness. The super high end legacy lenses will continue to thrive in price and scarcity I'm sure but they are really more of a financial investment. I've watched Trey Ratcliff in his N7 to A7r transition go from Sony FE lenses to his quest for Leica glass back to a SEL1018 that he continues to rave about on the A7R. The native AF convenience factor is too much to ignore.

There's still quite a way to go with AF performance, as it is still viewed as the 'achilles heel' of the E-mount system

Maybe any new lower-end APS-C camera will have a 20MP sensor with an improved PDAF capacity, rather like the Nikon 1 series?

AF during continuous shooting would also be a good feature - nice for 'soccer mums' shooting their children during sports days with the E55-210

Video could also receive another bump... being able to take photos and video at the same time (again like the Nikon 1) would be a nice and appeal to the 'soccer mum' customer.  4k might also be on the cards but probably only at the higher end

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parallaxproblem
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Re: Stagnation of New APS-C Models?
In reply to nevercat, 11 months ago

nevercat wrote:

It would be nice to get an FW update for my Nex 5, but I don't think it will ever come...

I don't know...  a set of firmwares containing the new JPG engine for every NEX camera produced would be a good way of Sony saying 'sorry' for treating their NEX customers so badly over the last few months  

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EinsteinsGhost
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Re: Unfortunately...
In reply to parallaxproblem, 11 months ago

DT200 wrote:

 I do agree that releases like the 5t are almost (not completely) pointless for buyers..

I agree, but if they had called the 5T the A5000 (as was originally planned) and released it at the same time as the A3000 then it wouldn't have been pointless:

"We are renaming the popular NEX-5R as the A5000 to comply with our new naming conventions and at the same time providing a mild update to specifications so that it gains NFC and triluminous capabilities to make it fully compatible with the lates Xperia and Bravia models"

Such a move would have

- made a lot of sense and there would be no questions over the reasons for the release

- have reassured users that the discontinuation of the NEX product name would have no impact on the actual releases

Sony were planning to do this, but then at the last minute backtracked and gave the product the name NEX-5T instead, a name that they already knew would be discontinued.  The reasons for this are unclear and Sony have been deliberately obtuse on the matter.  Very poor behaviour!

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It made sense to launch a new naming standard with brand new products than with evolutionary updates to existing models.

IMO, even a3000 should have been a follow up (and used a7 form).

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quezra
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Re: Stagnation of New APS-C Models?
In reply to EinsteinsGhost, 11 months ago

The sense of entitlement in this thread is staggering, given how visibly and humiliatingly wrong these people have been for the last couple of months.

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Tom Caldwell
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Re: Stagnation of New APS-C Models?
In reply to larrytusaz, 11 months ago

larrytusaz wrote:

I have the Sony NEX-F3 (and Nikon J1). Maybe it's me, but it seems like forever since new models have been announced other than the A3000 and A7/r--the former isn't really what I think of in terms of NEX, the latter are full-frame & as great as smaller full-frame models are, I think I'm one of many that appreciate what APS-C NEX models like the F3, 6 and 7 etc bring in terms of high image quality in a smaller package.

Is it just my imagination? I'm not dis-satisfied with my F3 (other than I wish you could use the command dial to more quickly choose AF points, not just the 4-way part of it) but the lack of new models can sort of send a "vibe" that the system is not likely to still be around in 3-odd years or so, or that it may end up being more like the A3000 which is NOT what I am looking for.

Tips?

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LRH

Tips?

The A7 type is just having its day in the sun and can do without some stiff competition from and updated and much revised wonder "NEX" (type) model.  When the A7 sales plateau a bit and settle down and the market needs some more excitement an aps-c variant (several?) will appear.  Probably less awkwardly be-buttoned and wheeled than the A7 type. In fact I am sure that Sony have it in them the ability to make a pretty neat little aps-c variant perhaps in both faux RF and faux dslr?

Maybe then we will all start to realise that a good aps-c is not so many leagues behind the FF in performance.  At least for us common photographer types.

Meanwhile Sony is sure to flog the A7 type for all it is worth, they need to create a market for it - maybe even we will see some price discounts "just to make sure"?  Make them cheap enough and then who needs an aps-c variant?

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viking79
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Re: IF they update the sensor, the Nikon 1s will attrack a lot here
In reply to DT200, 11 months ago

DT200 wrote:

captura wrote:

Larry, your's is a good and valid query.

I also have an N1 J1 and they're truly great cameras. Sonyshine has abandoned the Sony systems for what indeed may be greener fields in Nikon 1. They have a new V3 model coming as you probably know. Plus the dimininuation of the NEX forum is disgusting and maybe not worth tthe trouble. It takes away from the pleasure, for me, of owning Sony NEX cameras.

If you are not ready to take on the the Harley-Davidson of cameras, the FF A7 duo whole-hog, so to speak, why not just build on the N1 system?

It is very questionable as to whether we shall ever see any more NEX-sixe APSC cameras from Sony, ever again. The current supply of NEX's seems to be petering out.

Steve

IF they update the sensor, the Nikon 1s will attrack a lot here. Imagine the Nikon 1 with the RX100II sensor. Sony traded their technology to Aptina, so it is possible. The key word is "IF".

If they updated the sensor to the RX100II sensor, they would lose all the benefit of the Nikon 1.  The Nikon 1 has one of the fastest readouts on the market.  It gives up high ISO ability in order to have faster readout.  The Nikon 1 can shoot 60 FPS at full resolution.  That is insanely fast.

Eric

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RedRockRed
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Re: Stagnation of New APS-C Models?
In reply to larrytusaz, 11 months ago

I think the mfrs have been successful in substituting market churning for real innovation.  The costs to intro new models every quarter must be staggering, and I can guess who ends up paying for it.

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nevercat
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Re: Stagnation of New APS-C Models?
In reply to parallaxproblem, 11 months ago

parallaxproblem wrote:

nevercat wrote:

When Sony said back in august when releasing the A3000 (along with the Nex 5t) that there would be more Nex styled cameras comming would that be believed by the doomsday people?

This is not true!

Sony have never said that there will be more NEX style cameras coming. I, and several other people have even posted on their blogs asking this precise question and received no reply

Sorry I stated it wrong what I mentioned to tell is: If sonysaid back in....

You keep on telling that the Nex 5t should be named A5000 just by a few photo's with that model number on it. I've given several reasons for this name on this camera, but you keep on telling that what you say is true...

What I say is true. Your 'reasons' aren't anything of the kind - kindly re-state them so that people can see them for what they are

OK here they are. these are possible reasons for the A5000 on a few cameras:

1. It was a mask for the new name of the camera, like we see often happen on cars too, never mentioned to be shown to the public.

2. It was a name abandoned for the old Nex name as the camera had not enough new features for a big name change.

And I want to add one here and now:

3. It was a wrong namen, Sony had to deside how the Nex styled cameras had to be named as the FF cameras will be named Ax, the APS DSLR shaped E-mount cameras will be named Axxxx and the SLT cameras will be named Axx The APS Nex shaped cameras may be named Axxx or Ax5xx or even an other name.

The name Nex is very unlikely as it is told that that will be abandoned

All we hear in interviews with Sony is 'change change change' but nothing concerning what the future holds for NEX owners

Well Sony did show some of the future: A Full Frame E-mount camera, A very cheap E-mount camera, a Nex 5r successor, and tomorrow probably (it still is a rumor, so things can go different then we expect) a Nex 3 successor, so from August it was clear to me, and all the well thinking people what the future of the E-mount was: New cameras, so we can keep on using our E-mount lenses, nothing to worry....

Then you obviously have a line of communication with Sony (or a level of imagination) denied to most of us!

No I can read! My E-mount lenses will work perfectly on both the A7(r), and the A3000 and on the Nex 5t and on all future E-mount cameras. It was very clear to me the E-mount would go on as both Sony and Zeiss came with new E-mount lenses after august...

And change, change, change (as I often said) does not means that Sony will throw away a succesfull formfactor (successfull outside America)

Unless Sony tell us specifically what it means then you cannot put any such interpretation on it

And you can?

The sad reality is that Sony care little for their existing customers and are only interested in expanding their market to non-Sony owners.

And many showed you where wrong, but you did not listen... You keep on proclaiming doom and gloom...

How do you know I am 'wrong'? How do you know what Sony are or are not planning to do?

All I have ever been asking for is for Sony to tell us in general terms (ie. no secrets) what is happening. What is 'wrong' about that?

And may told you that there is no camera maker telling what they may bring in the future and how it will look... And you are wrong in Sony not comming with new APS small E-mount cameras just wait and see..

and for others the economic absurdity of such behaviour in alienating loyal customers and destroying 'goodwill' is incomprehensible,

Could it be incomprehensible to Sony too? Could it be that Sony understands that only going for new custommers is a stupid thing? Do you realy think they need you, and the other end of the world proclaimers, to show them the right path?

Yes, I do!

Realy?

We have seen them totally drop OVF for SLT, not make both models but drop one for the other!

First, as mentioned they came with both models, the A580 did not sell realy well as did none of the real DSLRs, so they decided to go SLT all the way, with all the bennefits and dow sides of it... A smart choice as I don't think thetre would be an A-mount when they did not drop the line they lost money on...

We have seen them first abandon their high-end A-mount bodies for the low end,

?????

They came with the A77 high end, they came with the A99 high end, they came with the A58 (not realy a high end, more low end) They ectualy dropped the mid range...

and now seemingly abandon the low and middle for the high end. This is a company where internal politics take precedence over customer interests and so as customers we need to shout at them if we want our interests to be taken into account

but it remains a fact. A cursory examination of Sony's treatment of their A-mount customers over the last few years, and their reluctance to release new firmwares should remove any lingering doubts over this reality

For all the Nex cameras there was at least one FW update. So lets keep to the facts please. The A-mount custommers can still use there lenses and all their other A-mount things on the new camera, Yes they need an adapter to use their flashes on the new hotshoe (a thing MANY A-mount users asked for, a standard hotshoe!!)

And a rubbish adaptor it is too... not fixing properly onto the mount and as a result flashes dropping onto the floor and breaking. Well, that's one way of 'forcing' an upgrade!

And how many A-mount users who had spent money on flashes with the old fixation wanted the mount changed so their flashes could not be used effectively on the new cameras? I find that rather difficult to believe!

Many wanted it to change to use other things like remote flash control, something simple as a small level, and other stuf that goes on the normal hotshoe

And for the SLT there is this to think of: Sony did come with a last "real" DSLR (A580) after they launched the A55. It was no success, Sony did what was economicly the right thing: stop with the camera that did not sell well, and go on with the cameras that do sell better!

Who says the A580 was not a success? They are chaning hands for relatively big bucks these days...

Yes but did they change hands when they where new for the price Sony asked? The A55 was muych more populair those days, both by A-mount users and new users.

The total abandonment of OVF for SLT was probably as much a result of an internal 'turf war' between two conflicting product managers as something inspired by actual sales performance

Well could it be that it was that Sony did everything to get a larger marketshare, but that did not work with their DSLRs as they looked to much like Canon and Nikon? It is the same reason why other brands (like Penax, Olympus and Samsung) did not get a larger market share with their DSLRs and (exept for Pentax) all changed tactics. Al abandoned the DSLR market and came with something completely new (mirrorless). Nobody is telling that they abandoned their loyal customers, but they did it in a harder way then Sony did, as Sony does still makes A-mount and E-mount cameras....

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Tom Caldwell
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Imagined obsolescence
In reply to jpr2, 11 months ago

jpr2 wrote:

larrytusaz wrote:

I think I'm one of many that appreciate what APS-C NEX models like the F3, 6 and 7 etc bring in terms of high image quality in a smaller package.

Is it just my imagination? I'm not dis-satisfied with my F3 (other than I wish you could use the command dial to more quickly choose AF points, not just the 4-way part of it) but the lack of new models can sort of send a "vibe" that the system is not likely to still be around in 3-odd years or so, or that it may end up being more like the A3000 which is NOT what I am looking for.

there were some rumors in circulation that by mid Feb. 2014 they will release the Nex-7 mk-II, but that is all... a rumor

jpr2

Nothing could be gloomier than it is for Ricoh GXR tragics, been some years snce the GXR camera back and also quite a long time since the last module was released.  And yet we remain ever hopeful that an upgrade will be released.  Ricoh remains silent on the subject with only a semi-official "we are thinking about it" long ago and a heap of praise on its technical design and capability from the chief executive of Pentax USA.   Most of the sensors are the the "lowly" Sony A12 but it images well enough.

Sony NEX users should adopt the same and only philosophy available to those who own a great camera that satisfies their needs - the one that you have and takes great pictures is the only one you need and in the meantime both Ricoh for GXR owners and Sony for NEX owners is saving them a heap of money by removing the pressure to junk the old gear because it is getting dusty for the thrill of the new.

Who needs "planned obsolescence" when "imagined obsolescence"  is a very good substitute?

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Tom Caldwell

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nevercat
Senior MemberPosts: 3,118
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Re: Let's wait....
In reply to parallaxproblem, 11 months ago

parallaxproblem wrote:

nevercat wrote:I agree, only question is poor behaviour from who, Sony or the doomsday proclamers?

I guess you think I fall into your second category. How, exactly, is my behaviour 'poor'?

Well you spread fear around for Sony not comming with a new Nex lookalike camera, you use the same arguments over and over again. You come in every post where you can spread your arguments even when the post is not directly about this fear ort the future of the E-mount. Do I have to show you more?

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DUMP the HUMP! Campaign for *REAL* NEX replacement bodies

Save both the hump and the humpless and be all happy!

This I can agree on...

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DUMP the HUMP! Campaign for *REAL* NEX replacement bodies

Save both the hump and the humpless and be all happy!

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Amamba
Senior MemberPosts: 1,232Gear list
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How often do you expect Sony to update them ?
In reply to larrytusaz, 11 months ago

Canon has been releasing their Digital Rebels every year to a 1 1/2 year, with most "updates" however being very incremental, especially concerning the processor capability. So the real major updates were about 3 years apart. E.g. my first Rebel was XTi, and it wasn't really surpassed until T1i / T2i (the later being a "super" T1i). So, it's 2006 to 2009/10. Then it stayed basically the same until T4i came out with an updated AF in 2012. There were many good improvements in the subsequent models - swivel screen, ability to trigger remote flashes - but they were just nice to haves, not IQ game changers. I replaced T2i with T3i to gain swivel screen for video (only because I could do it essentially for free) and while I liked T3i more overall, it was basically the same camera.

So, 2006-2009-2012 for real improvements for Canon. That's every 3 years.

The first Nex 3 was released in the mid-2010, . Nex 7 appeared in the late 2011 and Nex 6 in the late 2012. They were each very different cameras (relative to the predecessors). Now Sony came out with A3000 and A7/r. Their development pace is phenomenal. I don't think Sony will abandon the APS-C format, both Canon and Nikon have APS-C and full frame and it makes sense. It's obvious Sony is not abandoning E mount either, even with the arrival of FE - this is the same strategy Canon does with EF (full frame that can be used on crop) and EF-S (crop only) lens lines, which are both thriving. Again, this is a sensible strategy that other major camera manufacturers follow.

So, APS-C is here to stay, and E is here to stay. The new bodies will arrive, with time. The only question is the format of these new bodies. We now have the small rangefinder style cameras (the original Nex), the small rangefinder style cameras with a "hump" to allow for a bigger LCD (A7/r), and the small DSLR style cameras (A3000). I hope Sony will maintain all three. If not, I hope they at least produce a midrange APS-C (Nex 6 replacement) in the format of A7, I can live with the hump as long as the overall body is not larger or thicker. If the new direction is A3000, i.e. the larger, thicker DSLR styled bodies, I may just go back to Canon. Time will tell.

 Amamba's gear list:Amamba's gear list
Sony Alpha NEX-6 Sony Alpha NEX-F3 Sony E 18-55mm F3.5-5.6 OSS Sony E 16mm F2.8 Pancake Sony E 50mm F1.8 OSS +7 more
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