Please help me to stay with Pentax!

Started 7 months ago | Discussions
JimBim
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Please help me to stay with Pentax!
7 months ago

I’m comming to conclusion to upgrade my gear. Since 1997 I’m with Pentax. This time I decided to look to other land, specifically C, N. I see by testing those cameras inside dealer shop, that pictures from D610 and 6D are better compare to K3. What is your oppinion - might be I’m doing something wrong? Or this is because C and N are FF. Might be lens? All shoots are at ISO1600, AWB, F2.8; lens 50mm F1.4. I cropped C and N pictures to fit Pentax sensor size. No PP, jpg output, hands held, luminescent lighting.

I know that some of you complemented Pentax system with N or C. Can you share your experience? I’m really trying to find arguments to stay with Pentax!

Audrius

K3

6D

D610

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Model Mike
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Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!
In reply to JimBim, 7 months ago

It's all in the processing. I doubt the camera make a blind bit of difference. As Luminous Landscape put it:

"Most cameras these days produce image quality far superior to what most photographers are able to realize. I've written it before, and I believe it to be true. Sure, the pixel peepers can recite DxO ratings and cite the half-an-IE high-ISO advantages of one camera over another. But this is mostly the stuff of hobbyist mania. For me, and many other photographers, content is king and usability is its mistress."

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James O'Neill
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Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!
In reply to JimBim, 7 months ago

JimBim wrote:

I’m comming to conclusion to upgrade my gear. Since 1997 I’m with Pentax. This time I decided to look to other land, specifically C, N. I see by testing those cameras inside dealer shop, that pictures from D610 and 6D are better compare to K3. What is your oppinion - might be I’m doing something wrong? Or this is because C and N are FF. Might be lens? All shoots are at ISO1600, AWB, F2.8; lens 50mm F1.4. I cropped C and N pictures to fit Pentax sensor size. No PP, jpg output, hands held, luminescent lighting.

I know that some of you complemented Pentax system with N or C. Can you share your experience? I’m really trying to find arguments to stay with Pentax!

That's your comparison ? How much do you shoot at ISO 1600 ?

I have to say there's not much difference between the pictures, the Pentax looks to have its JPEG contrast set higher, and have the option to leave tungsten light slightly warm in AWB selected. My hunch is if you optimized the JPG settings they'd look even closer.

If you're weighing up which of 3 very capable cameras to buy, go for the one which feels best and most natural when you come to shoot with it. Suppose the Canon produces very slightly better images; I can't get on with Canon controls, so if I bought one it would stay on the shelf rather than go out shooting.  The best camera is the one you go and shoot with . You also need to take into account the cost of changing lenses and accessories if you switch systems.

If you like using the Canon or Nikon more and the cost of changing systems isn't prohibitive, CHANGE.  No one will hate you, no need to feel guilty. If you like using the Pentax more, stay. Don't expect other people to make your decision,

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Zvonimir Tosic
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Already discussed — it's the heavy Auto NR
In reply to JimBim, 7 months ago

JimBim wrote:

I’m comming to conclusion to upgrade my gear. Since 1997 I’m with Pentax. This time I decided to look to other land, specifically C, N. I see by testing those cameras inside dealer shop, that pictures from D610 and 6D are better compare to K3. What is your oppinion - might be I’m doing something wrong? Or this is because C and N are FF. Might be lens? All shoots are at ISO1600, AWB, F2.8; lens 50mm F1.4. I cropped C and N pictures to fit Pentax sensor size. No PP, jpg output, hands held, luminescent lighting.

It's the default Auto NR that kicks in after ISO 400. It makes smudgy JPEGs.

Turn Auto NR off and set it up as it serves your educated purpose.

I know that some of you complemented Pentax system with N or C. Can you share your experience? I’m really trying to find arguments to stay with Pentax!--

I say, let's stay within common sense. Today's camera s are all very, very good.

You cannot go wrong with either, but you'd go wrong with any of them if you don't understand how they work in particulars.

Have fun.

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Zvonimir Tosic
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JimBim
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Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!
In reply to James O'Neill, 7 months ago

James O'Neill wrote:

JimBim wrote:

I’m comming to conclusion to upgrade my gear. Since 1997 I’m with Pentax. This time I decided to look to other land, specifically C, N. I see by testing those cameras inside dealer shop, that pictures from D610 and 6D are better compare to K3. What is your oppinion - might be I’m doing something wrong? Or this is because C and N are FF. Might be lens? All shoots are at ISO1600, AWB, F2.8; lens 50mm F1.4. I cropped C and N pictures to fit Pentax sensor size. No PP, jpg output, hands held, luminescent lighting.

I know that some of you complemented Pentax system with N or C. Can you share your experience? I’m really trying to find arguments to stay with Pentax!

That's your comparison ? How much do you shoot at ISO 1600 ?

I have to say there's not much difference between the pictures, the Pentax looks to have its JPEG contrast set higher, and have the option to leave tungsten light slightly warm in AWB selected. My hunch is if you optimized the JPG settings they'd look even closer.

If you're weighing up which of 3 very capable cameras to buy, go for the one which feels best and most natural when you come to shoot with it. Suppose the Canon produces very slightly better images; I can't get on with Canon controls, so if I bought one it would stay on the shelf rather than go out shooting. The best camera is the one you go and shoot with . You also need to take into account the cost of changing lenses and accessories if you switch systems.

If you like using the Canon or Nikon more and the cost of changing systems isn't prohibitive, CHANGE. No one will hate you, no need to feel guilty. If you like using the Pentax more, stay. Don't expect other people to make your decision,

Sounds like if you are not praying for Pentax - go out! By the way, when I'm going for a trip I grab my istDL and I'm happy with output (in normal day light). But I'm doing a lot of shooting inside and have to use flash. These days ISO1600 is normal, I'm not talking about 3000 and above.

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JimBim
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Re: Already discussed — it's the heavy Auto NR
In reply to Zvonimir Tosic, 7 months ago

Thank you, Zvonimir! I like deep analysis in your posts!

Audrius

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kenwklau
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Re: Looks like K3 WB is off
In reply to JimBim, 7 months ago

Thank you, Zvonimir! I like deep analysis in your posts!

Audrius

Hi Audrious,

With that yellowish cast on the K3 photo, I wonder if the SENt on it was set right.
--
Regards,
Ken

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kenwklau
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Re: Looks like K3 WB is off
In reply to kenwklau, 7 months ago

Thank you, Zvonimir! I like deep analysis in your posts!

Audrius

Hi Audrious,

With that yellowish cast on the K3 photo, I wonder if the SENt on it was set right.
--
Regards,
Ken

Sort for typo with my new Smartphone. I meant AWB.
--
Regards,
Ken

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awaldram
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Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!
In reply to JimBim, 7 months ago

Talking just these images as shot

k3

better white balance

closer (better reach)

lower DoF better subject isolation

Higher niose

heavier Nr

Lurid red channel from Jpg (think Pentax calibrator is colour blind )

besides better white balance the rest are either functions of the format or adjustable.

I see nothing in the image that would make you choose Canon or Nikon over K3 the opposite is true there are indications in the image that the k3 is more sophisticated than either other camera.

Of cause if your a FF wanna be and think it will make you a better photographer then irrelevant of brand that what you should do

knock yourself out in the FF myth but ensure you check out Sony offerings before leaping.

I would suggest you make a list of your 'needs' and choose based on that not some perceived variance that is more today with the jpg engine than cameras.

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waxwaine
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Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!
In reply to JimBim, 7 months ago

Shooting on camera stores could be better with CaNikons options. So, you know what to do 

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new2pentax72
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Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!
In reply to awaldram, 7 months ago

In my understanding to compare different cameras the WB must be set manualy on the same setting and colour mode to neutral on all cameras.

awaldram wrote:

Talking just these images as shot

k3

better white balance

closer (better reach)

lower DoF better subject isolation

Higher niose

heavier Nr

Lurid red channel from Jpg (think Pentax calibrator is colour blind )

besides better white balance the rest are either functions of the format or adjustable.

I see nothing in the image that would make you choose Canon or Nikon over K3 the opposite is true there are indications in the image that the k3 is more sophisticated than either other camera.

Of cause if your a FF wanna be and think it will make you a better photographer then irrelevant of brand that what you should do

knock yourself out in the FF myth but ensure you check out Sony offerings before leaping.

I would suggest you make a list of your 'needs' and choose based on that not some perceived variance that is more today with the jpg engine than cameras.

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miles green
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Your test will favour FF. Others will favour the fast and rugged aps-c.
In reply to JimBim, 7 months ago

Default jpgs have very high NR at 1600 on the K3. Plus it's rather warm.

But obviously the FF will start being a bit better at high ISO. If it's FF you want, i'd wait a couple months, depending on lens you have or want. Ricoh has been quite fast to bring new products out, imho, and they have been talking about FF.

That said:

Your test will favour FF. Others will favour the fast and rugged aps-c.

Neither of the other 2 are weather sealed (if i am not mistaken).

Frame rate and buffer size are not at the same level. In fact, i don't think there is another 24mpx camera that can shoot anything close to 25 RAWs at 8.5 fps (give or take, and again, you've gotta check the specs).

With long lens, their reach is much less, or lens are much bigger and pricier.

C&N don't stabilize primes (except teles)...

They are quite different machines.

Oh, and C&N don't make limiteds (that's enough incentive for me not to look elsewhere for those focal lengths).

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Miles Green
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awaldram
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Re: Looks like K3 WB is off
In reply to kenwklau, 7 months ago

kenwklau wrote:

Thank you, Zvonimir! I like deep analysis in your posts!

Audrius

Hi Audrious,

With that yellowish cast on the K3 photo, I wonder if the SENt on it was set right.
--
Regards,
Ken

I'm surprised, as you gear lit includes k30 you make this remark.

As you should be aware Pentax believe the image should represent what your eyes see as such under artificial light they do not correct to the point the cast is daylight but leave some of the original ambiance.

This is another 'adjustable' setting and personally I think Pentax get it right, When shooting under candles I hate that 'shot in midday sun' look every other manufacturer seems to think is reasonable.

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Brad99
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Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!
In reply to JimBim, 7 months ago

3 things come to mind,

NR on auto is a no-no with the K-3 (as mentioned previously)

Bright mode is obviously set and that should preferably be Natural.

C&N 50mm primes don't have SR, Pentax cameras do so for this type of shot could be used at a lower ISO!

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Zenten4
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Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!
In reply to James O'Neill, 7 months ago

It doesn't matter what the rest think. It is how you feel. Nobody can help you that much.

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david tittermary
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Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!
In reply to Model Mike, 7 months ago

Model Mike wrote:

It's all in the processing. I doubt the camera make a blind bit of difference. As Luminous Landscape put it:

"Most cameras these days produce image quality far superior to what most photographers are able to realize. I've written it before, and I believe it to be true. Sure, the pixel peepers can recite DxO ratings and cite the half-an-IE high-ISO advantages of one camera over another. But this is mostly the stuff of hobbyist mania. For me, and many other photographers, content is king and usability is its mistress."

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yep yep and anyone making a choice on a camera by testing in the store needs to just buy what ever makes them look good because the camera doesn't matter. lol.

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bjake
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Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!
In reply to david tittermary, 7 months ago

From the pictures I wouldn't want to buy any of these cameras but know they will all do much better

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kikivrany
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Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!
In reply to JimBim, 7 months ago

Hello JimBim

Hands down, the K5 picture looks not so good...but I wouldn not upset myself with a bad JPEG.

Look at the histograms: -> the K3 did overexposed !

also the left part of the histogram is wrong -> the black is not really black and the hole picture get a little 'flair'

the other cameras did not overexposed the scene where it's very important -> her face

I try to correct this:

Your original

and a exposure +colour correction:

ok it's useless to try to correct the WB on a JPEG picture...but I think it's still better than the original .

So...all in all... I would not compare the cameras with such pictures...you get the wrong impression.

best regards kikivrany

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carpe noctem

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MightyMike
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Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!
In reply to JimBim, 7 months ago

Shoot RAW and learn how to WB properly, no camera can ever truly get WB perfect, many can come close in many situations but some fall short. I assure you even Nikon falls short. I never trust AWB to get it right, I expect it to come close most of the time but i know how to WB many scenarios either by choosing a neutral white/grey patch or by understanding what WB values are right for sunny, cloudy, shade, and such situations. So consider WB your next target to learn in photography, you'll be amazed at how much better photos will look with the WB set right.

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JimBim
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Re: Please help me to stay with Pentax!
In reply to MightyMike, 7 months ago

MightyMike wrote:

Shoot RAW and learn how to WB properly, no camera can ever truly get WB perfect, many can come close in many situations but some fall short. I assure you even Nikon falls short. I never trust AWB to get it right, I expect it to come close most of the time but i know how to WB many scenarios either by choosing a neutral white/grey patch or by understanding what WB values are right for sunny, cloudy, shade, and such situations. So consider WB your next target to learn in photography, you'll be amazed at how much better photos will look with the WB set right.

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Mike from Canada
"I am not a great photographer! God is a great creator! All I do is capture His creation with the tools He has provided me."
'I like to think so far outside the box that it would require a telephoto lens just to see the box!' ~ 'My Quote :)'
http://www.michaelfastphotography.com/galleries/VP-BDI_3a.jpg
http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.search?sort_order=views%20DESC&first_this_page=0&page_limit=180&&emailsearch=mighty_mike88%40hotmail.com&thumbnails=

Thank you Mike.

I look at this different. I do WB manually on my K20. Because this is an old stuff I'm forgiving. Today, when I have to pay my money I want to do my life easier. For me K3 looks like music instrument made from high end material, well built, but tuning must be done with everyone yourself. I can produce excellent pictures with my istDL in manual mode. And I do. But if I pay money, I expect something what would made my life easier: decent AWB, good jpg quality directly from camera, fast autofocus and so on. And there is not a big difference in price between K3 and 6D or D610.

Audrius

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